Is masturbation a sin?

[Alithis]

oh ok .. it wasn't you .. my error - no prob .you just dived i and defended it .. without once using a direct scripture . because there isn't one ..

and you don't have to listen to me - no ones twisting your arm
now .. may we please return to the topic .
is masturbation a sin .. yes it is , quite simply.

but you know what , it is the very asking of the question that exposes it as sin ..Sin being perceived in many differing ways right down to .. if your conscience does not condemn you.. then .... arrive at your own conclusion.
But my point of the question being asked is simply This -
No one asks a question like ..

"is being kind to another person a sin ?"

all know it is not and therefore does not need to have justification of it sought .

innocence needs no justification and does not seek it .
only guilt seeks to justify itself .
just some thoughts to throw us back on topic

 

[LilLamb219]

MOD HAT ON

Let's get back on topic, shall we

MOD HAT OFF

 

[Touchemama]

When a guy see a beautiful woman walking down the street, guys you know what happens.That does not mean you are lusting after her.

So you are married and can not have sex with your spouse due to an illness, surgery,etc and you have a sexual urge, is it wrong to touch until that spouse is well again?

David lusted after Bathsheba and had her husband killed to have her. That is lusting.

Lusting is not just thinking about it but also acting upon it. That is what John was talking about.

So now here is a question, would God want you to touch or go after that beautiful woman you are not engaged or married to to take care of the problem?

cimbk. Homosexuality is the sexual act between two people of the same sex. It has absolutely nothing to do with masturbation.

The OT taught it was wrong to throw the seed on the ground because of procreation to build up the Jewish nation as they are his chosen people and were so few in the period of time. When Jesus died on the cross and fulfilled the OT laws that one was also done away with.

 

[Alithis]

When a guy see a beautiful woman walking down the street, guys you know what happens.That does not mean you are lusting after her.

So you are married and can not have sex with your spouse due to an illness, surgery,etc and you have a sexual urge, is it wrong to touch until that spouse is well again?

David lusted after Bathsheba and had her husband killed to have her. That is lusting.

Lusting is not just thinking about it but also acting upon it. That is what John was talking about.

So now here is a question, would God want you to touch or go after that beautiful woman you are not engaged or married to to take care of the problem?

cimbk. Homosexuality is the sexual act between two people of the same sex. It has absolutely nothing to do with masturbation.

The OT taught it was wrong to throw the seed on the ground because of procreation to build up the Jewish nation as they are his chosen people and were so few in the period of time. When Jesus died on the cross and fulfilled the OT laws that one was also done away with.

lust could be defined as desiring that which is not rightfully yours for the purpose of self gratification in the sexual realm
just as covetousness is desiring what is not rightfully yours in the material realm for the self gratification of "having the best" .
the lust of the eyes the pride of life etc .. these things cannot be fulfilled -they are an endless pit .
and this is the danger of a person walking in a manner that seeks to gratify that which can only ever be temporarily gratified but never satisfied (what the bible calls "walking in the flesh ")
i heard a story one time of a wandering man picked by police ...he was an unsavory type .they asked him what he had been Doing and he said "i saved a woman from being raped" . As the police had no recent report of such an incident in their town they asked how did you do that .. and he replied "i controlled myself " !
the point to be noted is ,yes , it is that fine a line between evil and righteousness and it can begin by how a person simply looks upon another -the intent of their heart when thy raised their eyes to "look upon the lady "
a few say they touch without lust -personally i have never believed them . for the very desire to unnecessarily gratify what the flesh craves is in itself wrong .a craving is over and above a necessity.
we see this after the red sea crossing when the lord sent Quail-
"But while the meat was still between their teeth and before it could be consumed, the anger of the Lord burned against the people, and he struck them with a severe plague. 34 Therefore the place was named Kibroth Hattaavah,[d] because there they buried the people who had craved other food." niv
KJV actually uses the word lusted .

but i guess in the end :SELF: is the key word -you used a few scenarios of when a guy might do this thing .. but in all cases he would only be gratifying himself for himself and no other reason .
when put into alignment with the Lord Jesus - how is it laying down ones own life for the good of all others ? how is it dying to SELF ? it is the very opposite .

 

[Simon_Templar]

In sexual terms, lust is a mockery of the desire for love. Basically every sinful desire we have is a desire for something good that has been put out of place by the effects of our fallen nature.

All human beings are designed to desire love and relationship. Sex is part of that specifically related to the relationship between husband and wife.

In essence there are two parts to lust. We have the natural desires of the physical body for pleasure. These are not inherently wrong, God made them and designed them to be good. However, part of the fallen nature is that the desires of our physical body often called "passions" drive us and control us. We (ie our will) was meant to control them. They were meant to serve us, not us them.

In addition to the physical side, however, there is also an emotional and spiritual component that runs much deeper. Sex is not purely physical. It is also emotional and it is part of a spiritual relationship between husband and wife. It is an expression of love.

As a result, when people engage in elicit sexual activity, including masturbation, they can get momentary satisfaction of their emotional desires and even in some fleeting way the spiritual need for love and intimacy.

There are a couple of problems with this. First, it is much like a drug. The little bit of temporary satisfaction you get never lasts long and it really doesn't satisfy the need. As a result you continuously get pulled deeper and deeper in. Your needs are never really being met, so they get worse and worse, and the activity becomes less satisfying so you have to find ways to do more. etc etc.

Second, is that in doing this you are treating either yourself, or another person as an object to be used for self-gratification. This is in a sense a kind of blasphemy almost because a person, including you, is sacred. A person is not something to be used like a play thing.

But even beyond that the most important need we have is not just to receive love but to give love. When you view and use sex this way you are not really giving yourself to another. You are just using them (or you) for your own gratification. Its selfish, instead of selfless. The exact opposite.

So an important point to take from all this is that its not just morally wrong, it is bad for you emotionally and spiritually. (which is why God teaches us that it is wrong and tries to keep us from doing it)

 

[Alithis]

In sexual terms, lust is a mockery of the desire for love. Basically every sinful desire we have is a desire for something good that has been put out of place by the effects of our fallen nature.

All human beings are designed to desire love and relationship. Sex is part of that specifically related to the relationship between husband and wife.

In essence there are two parts to lust. We have the natural desires of the physical body for pleasure. These are not inherently wrong, God made them and designed them to be good. However, part of the fallen nature is that the desires of our physical body often called "passions" drive us and control us. We (ie our will) was meant to control them. They were meant to serve us, not us them.

In addition to the physical side, however, there is also an emotional and spiritual component that runs much deeper. Sex is not purely physical. It is also emotional and it is part of a spiritual relationship between husband and wife. It is an expression of love.

As a result, when people engage in elicit sexual activity, including masturbation, they can get momentary satisfaction of their emotional desires and even in some fleeting way the spiritual need for love and intimacy.

There are a couple of problems with this. First, it is much like a drug. The little bit of temporary satisfaction you get never lasts long and it really doesn't satisfy the need. As a result you continuously get pulled deeper and deeper in. Your needs are never really being met, so they get worse and worse, and the activity becomes less satisfying so you have to find ways to do more. etc etc.

Second, is that in doing this you are treating either yourself, or another person as an object to be used for self-gratification. This is in a sense a kind of blasphemy almost because a person, including you, is sacred. A person is not something to be used like a play thing.

But even beyond that the most important need we have is not just to receive love but to give love. When you view and use sex this way you are not really giving yourself to another. You are just using them (or you) for your own gratification. Its selfish, instead of selfless. The exact opposite.

So an important point to take from all this is that its not just morally wrong, it is bad for you emotionally and spiritually. (which is why God teaches us that it is wrong and tries to keep us from doing it)

yeh , natural desire -what i termed the difference between necessity and craving ... it is necessary to eat food to live - that is not lust - it is not necessary to continue to eat until the belly is bloated because one craves the gratification.

id say more but its only repetitive because if you scroll way way back you will find i already fully agree with you on this topic

 

[Touchemama]

michaelmynameIs,
What does this verse have to do with masturbation?
Please if you are going to quote a verse how about including the book and chapter you have pulled it from.
Israel lusted after meat because they got tired of the manna God provided for them.
You can lust after anything sex, clothes, cars, houses, etc.
The word masturbation is not even in the bible and the only time it is even refered to is in the OT laws.
He also said not to have sex with animals as that is an abomination to Him.
Read the Torah (the laws) given to Israel only. All these laws were fulfilled when Jesus was crucified on the cross and spilt his blood for our sins.
This is a subject that should be between you and Jesus Christ and no one should be condemned for the act because you do not agree with it.
I am going to be snarky and ask 'Where's the ice pack' or 'cold shower'?

 

[Alithis]

michaelmynameIs,
What does this verse have to do with masturbation?
Please if you are going to quote a verse how about including the book and chapter you have pulled it from.
Israel lusted after meat because they got tired of the manna God provided for them.
You can lust after anything sex, clothes, cars, houses, etc.
The word masturbation is not even in the bible and the only time it is even refered to is in the OT laws.
He also said not to have sex with animals as that is an abomination to Him.
Read the Torah (the laws) given to Israel only. All these laws were fulfilled when Jesus was crucified on the cross and spilt his blood for our sins.
This is a subject that should be between you and Jesus Christ and no one should be condemned for the act because you do not agree with it.
I am going to be snarky and ask 'Where's the ice pack' or 'cold shower'?

lol a man does not touch because he thinks .. i haven't done that latley .. he is tempted to because his flesh "CRAVES" the gratification. (hence that verse)
so the question is not about the singular modern word "masturbation" but about the state of the heart in relationship and obedience to the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus and how it aligns to the principles he taught us to live by . dying to "self" not walking i the flesh to fulfill its evil desires etc
for the flesh desires the things of the flesh and the Spirit desires the things of the Spirit - the desires of the flesh are evil and work in us unrighteousness unto death but if we follow after the Spirit (holy) it works in us the righteousness of God unto eternal life .(ref Romans ch 6 )
and your right you can lust after many things - does that excuse doing so ? no !

these things are not cancelled because a modern word is formed to describe a particular act . giving something a new description does not cancel the validity of the Word of God.


and icepack - cold shower ? what for - if I am tempted in this manner i need only to bow my heart to the lord Jesus and the temptation is Gone -for if we walk in the Spirit we will NOT fulfill the evil desire of the flesh . the only reason it would not be gone is because i don't want it to be gone ( refer james ch 1.)

 

[Touchemama]

Simon Templar,
I had belonged to a very legalistic religion and sex was not spoken of. We had a series of meetings with a doctor of the same faith where questions could be asked and he clarified for us that there was no damage done to the body by masturbation. We had been lead to believe that if you had ever masturbated then married and had children that the children would be born brain damaged or if you masturbated you would become brain damaged.
He said it would not inhibit the intimacy between husbands and wives if masturbation was done before marriage.
Masturbation is not sex. It is a release mechanism.

 

[Alithis]

Simon Templar,
I had belonged to a very legalistic religion and sex was not spoken of. We had a series of meetings with a doctor of the same faith where questions could be asked and he clarified for us that there was no damage done to the body by masturbation. We had been lead to believe that if you had ever masturbated then married and had children that the children would be born brain damaged or if you masturbated you would become brain damaged.
He said it would not inhibit the intimacy between husbands and wives if masturbation was done before marriage.
Masturbation is not sex. It is a release mechanism.

medically speaking that is correct
but what has it got to do with obedience to the Holy spirit ?

 

[Simon_Templar]

Simon Templar,
I had belonged to a very legalistic religion and sex was not spoken of. We had a series of meetings with a doctor of the same faith where questions could be asked and he clarified for us that there was no damage done to the body by masturbation. We had been lead to believe that if you had ever masturbated then married and had children that the children would be born brain damaged or if you masturbated you would become brain damaged.
He said it would not inhibit the intimacy between husbands and wives if masturbation was done before marriage.
Masturbation is not sex. It is a release mechanism.

I didn't mean to imply that masturbation was physically harmful. It is spiritually harmful, and it can be emotionally harmful.

For many people masturbation becomes a substitute for a real emotional connection with a spouse. I have known people where this caused problems in their marriage and I have seen it also used by people who were not married as a way to avoid pursuing relationships (because they feared the hurt of broken relationships) by trying to sate their need for intimacy

 

[Johnnz]

I didn't mean to imply that masturbation was physically harmful. It is spiritually harmful, and it can be emotionally harmful.

For many people masturbation becomes a substitute for a real emotional connection with a spouse. I have known people where this caused problems in their marriage and I have seen it also used by people who were not married as a way to avoid pursuing relationships (because they feared the hurt of broken relationships) by trying to sate their need for intimacy

It can , but not necessarily.

John
NZ

 

[RobZ]

I think this topic was completely changed from Maserbating to something ells....
I want to know if my wife is giving me permission to touch becuase she understand my frustration and that she simply does not have as much sexual needs as me, she told me that I should rellieve myself in the shower, so that I can get rid of the frustration. Do you think this is still wrong in the eyes of God? When i'm sure that the only person I will be imagining and thinking of while doing this is my wife. no other woman or fantasy? please tell me?

 

[Alithis]

if i said it once i'll say it again because i stand by it
the very fact that you nee to ask is itself your answer .

no one - "asks is it a sin to be kind to a stranger in need" ?

because we know without any teaching that it is not.
Innocence needs no justification.
lay down your own desires for the good of others - this is what the lord Jesus showed us to do .

 

[RobZ]

Thank you, may I please ask for some more comments on my question from others? do you all agree with Michael?

 

[Simon_Templar]

I think this topic was completely changed from Maserbating to something ells....
I want to know if my wife is giving me permission to touch becuase she understand my frustration and that she simply does not have as much sexual needs as me, she told me that I should rellieve myself in the shower, so that I can get rid of the frustration. Do you think this is still wrong in the eyes of God? When i'm sure that the only person I will be imagining and thinking of while doing this is my wife. no other woman or fantasy? please tell me?

I don't know your and your wife's situation obviously. But this doesn't really get around the issue of objectification. Even if you only think about your wife, you are still turning both her and yourself into just things you use for pleasure.

In general the sexual drive of most people in our culture is WAY over amped. The very fact that so many men can't go without sex, without becoming "frustrated" is indicative of a real problem. But because our culture basically teaches complete self-indulgence on this issue everyone just thinks that their level of desire is normal.

A lot of times people think of lust as being only the desire for sex with someone that you aren't married to. It is completely possible (and in fact very common I think) for people to be very lustful inside of marriage and basically to view marriage as a way of justifying their lust.

Lust is both incorrect desire (desire for sex that is morally wrong, like outside of marriage) as well as inordinate desire (desiring something way too much).

You could say that asking if its ok to touch so long as you are married and you think about your wife, is kind of like asking if its ok to eat 10 big meals a day so long as you then exercise enough to not get fat... the better question might be, why do you feel the need to eat 10 meals a day?

Contrary to what a lot of people say there is no physical need to touch or have regular sexual release. If your body does get to a point where it needs such a thing, it will take care of business in your sleep.

I hesitate to offer advice on marital situations because obviously we in the forum don't have the info or the qualifications. However, there seem to be a few cases where wives are not interested in sexual intimacy and this causes a problem for husbands.
Again, not knowing the situation, it could be that the husband's desires are just way too demanding... but on the other hand, Christian teaching is that each spouse has a responsibility to the other, to meet their sexual needs. A wife has no more right to withhold sex because she isn't interested, than a husband does to demand it at his whim.

But that kind of thing requires both parties to get on board with what the bible actually teaches and a lot of people aren't willing to do that because they'd rather be selfish and do what they want, or what our culture has conditioned them to think.

 

[Johnnz]

Wrong sex is over-emphasised in our society. But we must consider that the widespread interest in sex is indicative of the place sex is meant to have in our lives.It is a component of the first mandates given to humanity - 'fill the earth'. It is probable that God created our sex drive to be very much a component of being human. In the (non moral) animal realm we can see just how powerful sex can be - combat, possible injury or death, working around barriers for example. All life has a sexual component, right down to very simple organisms and plants. That tells me something about God's designs for sex. There is far too much Greek derived asceticism remaining in the church. The biblical picture is far more 'earthy'. Song of Songs is not about sex as obligation or necessity, but delight, sensuousness, mutual eroticism and creativity.

People in marriages with regular, willing sex tell of its importance to them; sex expresses in a vital and intimate way the relationship itself.

Taking your analogy of food. We can exist on very basic food. But human creativity which is part of being 'made in God's image' does not stop there. Each culture experiments and adapts, producing varied food which can serve as a basic meal, or as a specially prepared feast for a significant occasion. Is sex for Christians to be basic sustenance only or can it include times of celebration and feasting. I adopt the latter option.

John
NZe

 

[Simon_Templar]

Wrong sex is over-emphasised in our society. But we must consider that the widespread interest in sex is indicative of the place sex is meant to have in our lives.It is a component of the first mandates given to humanity - 'fill the earth'.

People in marriages with regular, willing sex tell of its importance to them; sex expresses in a vital and intimate way the relationship itself.

Taking your analogy of food. We can exist on very basic food. But human creativity which is part of being 'made in God's image' does not stop there. Each culture experiments and adapts, producing varied food which can serve as a basic meal, or as a specially prepared feast for a significant occasion. Is sex for Christians to be basic sustenance only or can it include times of celebration and feasting. I adopt the latter option.

John
NZ

I don't disagree. However, I don't think there is any question that our culture has vastly exaggerated sex-drive. (and food for that matter)

Having celebration and feast is great as long as you don't do it every day or multiple times a day.

For example, there are common "statistics" bandied around such as men think about sex every 6 seconds etc. Our society perpetuates myths like that and trains people to think that a constant preoccupation with sex is natural. That's just not the case and we do need to address that.

With all physical desires, what Christianity teaches us is #1 - that they are good when in right order. God created all physical pleasures for our enjoyment BUT #2 - All the good things of this life, including physical pleasures, are meant to point us beyond themselves to the goodness of God in the next world. Our ultimate destiny what we were created for is that next world. The good things of this world are just meant to whet your appetite. That leads to #3 - Our fallen nature STRONGLY tends to become fixated on and preoccupied with the physical pleasures of this life. That leads us to spiritual death. As a result we absolutely must learn to practice not only self-control, but also self-denial in order to curb our physical desire and keep them in proper order. We need to do this so that we always keep our focus on our destiny in the next world with God, not on our next feast.

On the one hand we've got people who are too fixated on physical pleasures to the point where they become the focus, and the person has no self-control and is unwilling to put their "self" to death by taking up their cross.

On the other we've got people who out of false spirituality despise physical pleasures of the creation and view them as inherently bad and evil.

Both views are wrong. In fact the second is probably worse than the first.

 

[KeenanParkerII]

I think this topic was completely changed from Maserbating to something ells....
I want to know if my wife is giving me permission to touch becuase she understand my frustration and that she simply does not have as much sexual needs as me, she told me that I should rellieve myself in the shower, so that I can get rid of the frustration. Do you think this is still wrong in the eyes of God? When i'm sure that the only person I will be imagining and thinking of while doing this is my wife. no other woman or fantasy? please tell me?

Yes. I think that's a personal discussion between you and your wife. But you have needs and desires. Figuring out which is which and making sure those are fulfilled is part of your relationship right? Masturbating dismisses the problem.

 

[Alithis]

I think this topic was completely changed from Maserbating to something ells....
I want to know if my wife is giving me permission to touch becuase she understand my frustration and that she simply does not have as much sexual needs as me, she told me that I should rellieve myself in the shower, so that I can get rid of the frustration. Do you think this is still wrong in the eyes of God? When i'm sure that the only person I will be imagining and thinking of while doing this is my wife. no other woman or fantasy? please tell me?

ok i am going to repeat my harsh words lol as i think the post was missed


On the issue of the chaps wife having no sexual drive after having a baby ..

Get over it .
Welcome to the human race .it wont always be that way
And what has happened to "laying down our lives for one another " my wife is tired what with night feeds and changes and unsettled baby - so i love her
because i love her i lay down those sexual desires and do not add that pressure to her .
no man has EVER died - or even suffered slightly (other then self denial of flesh )from not having sexual release .

remember the scriptures any one ? .. LOVE - Does not seek its own .?. die to yourself ...?

got a lot of sexual energy have you ?
well burn it off by ...

hanging out the washing ,
vacuuming the floor,
cleaning the windows
,folding and putting away the clothes ,
taking baby after a feed and changing him/her at 3 am
doing some more washing
cooking the dinner
doing the dishes
making your wife breakfast
vacuuming the floor again
cleaning the bathroom
cleaning the toilet
repeat the above daily
..serve her in LOvE as if she were the lord Jesus

after all that - when she is ready,she will minister unto you until your little heart can take now more .