Is it possible to be a Christian and pro-choice?

[Jermayn]

I'd like to preface my comments by saying that I am a fairly conservative Christian but am very moderate and relatively uninformed when it comes to US politics. Therefore, in light of yesterday's US Supreme Court announcement, I had two overarching questions:

1) Is it possible to be against abortion morally and personally but pro-choice as far as legislation goes? The Christian who is pro-choice could be against abortion personally but argues that from a legislative perspective, pro-choice will/may reduce the occurrences of abortion and protect the life and health of women. They don't want to take away rights from women from political standpoint and still allow them the right to choose. What would be a counter argument to this?

2) How should the Christian think about the recent news about the Roe v Wade issue especially for women in states with total bans on abortion? This means that for pregnancies in which the mother's life is at risk (ectopic, non-viable fetuses, other health issues), rape, incest they would be forced to carry the baby to their death. Many non-Christians are outraged by this and see this as yet another example of the Christian fundamentalist right to control women's bodies. What is the Christian response to these points?

I've often wondered about the same thing in your first question and I can't really say I have a solid answer to this day. On the one hand it would seem that if you were a person who were pro-choice because it preserved some aspect of our government and/or laws but would never do it yourself or were just ignorant and genuinely thought God had no problem with it that the answer would be yes. However, after reading (moments ago actually) that God had rules in place for the Israelites when a person or the nation committed sin in ignorance leads me to think otherwise. I'm leaning towards no because God's word is higher than any humans and to say yes is based purely off my own feelings and logic. The only reason I say I lean in that direction is because of the possibility there may be other scripture I'm unaware of that would clarify the question to where we could give a hard yes or no answer.

I'm not aware of any state that has banned abortion to the point where a mother has to physically die if there's an issue with the pregnancy. I want to make clear that someone threatening to commit suicide because they are pregnant is not an acceptable reason for abortion on the grounds of "life of the mother." I'll guarantee you that is going to be used soon as a way to begin using abortion as a form of birth control again. Anyway, I don't know of any verse in the Bible that suggests we are not considered individual living beings a certain amount of weeks into a pregnancy. I also don't know of any that suggest a product of rape or incest isn't still a human being. It may seem harsh or unfair, but that's where you have to decide if you make the rules or if God makes the rules.

 

[Zion Princess]

Murder is never lawful.

There is a justice system designed to decide this because there are a variety of ways human beings are killed/murdered. Sometimes it’s accidental and sometimes acted with malice and premeditated and everything in between. To say murder is never lawful is to say you know better than the law system and the courts. It depends on the situation in which a person is killed. And by this I am talking about circumstances beyond abortion. When you say killing is never lawful then why would you own a gun designed to kill or at least seriously injure an intruder. What about war? And instructions to kill by higher authorities? When innocent civilians are killed it’s murder and it happens all the time. It’s easy to pick on abortion as murder. What’s harder is to look at yourself in the mirror and reconsider some of your current beliefs.

 

[Zion Princess]

Children and babies, even infants are killed as war crimes all the time in other countries. Yet we never hear public outrage about the killing/murder of innocent civilian babies from other countries. Why? What makes murdering one sad to you and the other makes you so outraged that you must publicly speak out against it?

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I've often wondered about the same thing in your first question and I can't really say I have a solid answer to this day. On the one hand it would seem that if you were a person who were pro-choice because it preserved some aspect of our government and/or laws but would never do it yourself or were just ignorant and genuinely thought God had no problem with it that the answer would be yes. However, after reading (moments ago actually) that God had rules in place for the Israelites when a person or the nation committed sin in ignorance leads me to think otherwise. I'm leaning towards no because God's word is higher than any humans and to say yes is based purely off my own feelings and logic. The only reason I say I lean in that direction is because of the possibility there may be other scripture I'm unaware of that would clarify the question to where we could give a hard yes or no answer.

I'm not aware of any state that has banned abortion to the point where a mother has to physically die if there's an issue with the pregnancy. I want to make clear that someone threatening to commit suicide because they are pregnant is not an acceptable reason for abortion on the grounds of "life of the mother." I'll guarantee you that is going to be used soon as a way to begin using abortion as a form of birth control again. Anyway, I don't know of any verse in the Bible that suggests we are not considered individual living beings a certain amount of weeks into a pregnancy. I also don't know of any that suggest a product of rape or incest isn't still a human being. It may seem harsh or unfair, but that's where you have to decide if you make the rules or if God makes the rules.

God's word speaks to every one of those situations you mention murder is never allowed

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

There is a justice system designed to decide this because there are a variety of ways human beings are killed/murdered. Sometimes it’s accidental and sometimes acted with malice and premeditated and everything in between. To say murder is never lawful is to say you know better than the law system and the courts. It depends on the situation in which a person is killed. And by this I am talking about circumstances beyond abortion. When you say killing is never lawful then why would you own a gun designed to kill or at least seriously injure an intruder. What about war? And instructions to kill by higher authorities? When innocent civilians are killed it’s murder and it happens all the time. It’s easy to pick on abortion as murder. What’s harder is to look at yourself in the mirror and reconsider some of your current beliefs.

Exact same answer God's word speaks to every situation you just mentioned and murder is never allowed.

 

[Jermayn]

Children and babies, even infants are killed as war crimes all the time in other countries. Yet we never hear public outrage about the killing/murder of innocent civilian babies from other countries. Why? What makes murdering one sad to you and the other makes you so outraged that you must publicly speak out against it?

The unfortunate reality is that to deal with the issues you bring up would require more killing. In third world countries, one sides child soldiers are killing the other sides child soldiers. To get involved would mean picking a side you don't like and killing their children. First world countries are going to fight for power till the end of time. To end that would mean conquering the entire world, which would mean....a LOT of killing. While we should be outraged at these things, we are pretty much helpless to stop it. Each country will have to stand in judgement before God and answer to him as to why they continued to wage war on one another. This shouldn't be used as an excuse to continue aborting children. "Two wrongs don't make a right".

 

[Zion Princess]

The unfortunate reality is that to deal with the issues you bring up would require more killing. In third world countries, one sides child soldiers are killing the other sides child soldiers. To get involved would mean picking a side you don't like and killing their children. First world countries are going to fight for power till the end of time. To end that would mean conquering the entire world, which would mean....a LOT of killing. While we should be outraged at these things, we are pretty much helpless to stop it. Each country will have to stand in judgement before God and answer to him as to why they continued to wage war on one another. This shouldn't be used as an excuse to continue aborting children. "Two wrongs don't make a right".

This isn’t an excuse to abort children. Abortion is wrong and never right. I’m just showing the hypocrisy of focusing so intensely on abortion while not giving much thought to babies dying in other countries. I believe this is because it’s not about the babies but about control. If people really cared about innocent babies being killed they would be anti war as well. I agree war is a complicated issue. I do know that the killing of innocent civilians is wrong. It’s sinful evil and wrong. Killing unborn babies is also sinful evil and wrong. Abortion is a very complicated issue. We live in a complicated world.

 

[Sir Joseph]

According to various polls, many professing Christians and Catholics defend abortion, support gay marriage, and accept evolution and other doctrinal issues that counter the Bible's teaching. Such unbiblical beliefs and values are now accepted by a majority of the young generation and will only worsen as our educational system, culture, liberal churches, and even theological universities teach such things.

I suspect that a Christian or Catholic can be saved and have such misguided views, but I consider it a sign of their ignorance of the Bible or willful betrayal of their faith. They often don't see the hypocrisy or inconsistent belief systems they advocate. It's irrational, but such is the norm among people today.

For those of us that choose to actually believe the Bible and try to follow God's Word, I think we'll see our fellow misguided believers in heaven, but one may be more likely to hear the words "Well done" than the other, and that may be reflected in the heavenly rewards we store up for ourselves during this life.

 

[Enilorac]

I am pro-choice in that I do not believe on pushing my personal beliefs on someone who may not share them. I define "pro-life" in terms of defining pro-life as assuring a person has the assurance of life, that is, proper housing, clothing, education, medical care and everything else from cradle to grave. I also define "pro-life" as being opposed to the death penalty.

However, I know that I can't force anyone to see things from my point of view. I have no business getting inside a decision that does not belong to me.

 

[Jermayn]

This isn’t an excuse to abort children. Abortion is wrong and never right. I’m just showing the hypocrisy of focusing so intensely on abortion while not giving much thought to babies dying in other countries. I believe this is because it’s not about the babies but about control. If people really cared about innocent babies being killed they would be anti war as well. I agree war is a complicated issue. I do know that the killing of innocent civilians is wrong. It’s sinful evil and wrong. Killing unborn babies is also sinful evil and wrong. Abortion is a very complicated issue. We live in a complicated world.

Indeed. I'm no foreign policy or even domestic policy expert but I've thought long and hard about these issues. I've determined nothing short of a full acceptance of Jesus Christ and his message will bring and end to the hatred and violence humans enact upon one another, both on an individual and governmental level.

 

[hedrick]

"How should?" is one question. "How do?" is another. In reality Christians do not have homogeneous thought on the matter. I'm personally opposed to abortion in most instances, but I support access to abortion for non-viable fetuses, threats to life of the mother, rape, & incest.​

SCOTUS decision does not stop abortion in this country. It will stop medical-professional abortions in some states for some people. Persons of means will still be able to travel to states deciding to permit abortion or to other countries. The poor in those states will either do without or be back to seedy little illegal providers and coat-hangers.​

I think another issue to be faced is whether states will merely prohibit medical-provider abortions or actually criminalize abortion? If criminalized, who will the criminal(s) be? The doctors? The women? The girls? Are we going to lock up for life a 14-year-old who won't bear her incestuous father's child? I'm opposed to that.​

We already know. States are moving to make the women criminals. Fetal personhood will make miscarriages suspicious, as we already see in some cases. We already know of hospitals that won’t treat women in difficult pregnancies.

 

[Enilorac]

We already know. States are moving to make the women criminals. Fetal personhood will make miscarriages suspicious, as we already see in some cases. We already know of hospitals that won’t treat women in difficult pregnancies.

How come the men get off scot-free? Oh yeah, men wouldn't be "tempted" to have sex if women didn't "entice" them because men have absolutely no self-control if they even get a glimpse of something even remotely relating to a woman...like ankles.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

We already know. States are moving to make the women criminals. Fetal personhood will make miscarriages suspicious, as we already see in some cases. We already know of hospitals that won’t treat women in difficult pregnancies.

Which hospitals won't treat women when their pregnancy is in difficulty?

First, I ever heard of it.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

How come the men get off scot-free? Oh yeah, men wouldn't be "tempted" to have sex if women didn't "entice" them because men have absolutely no self-control if they even get a glimpse of something even remotely relating to a woman...like ankles.

Men only get off if the woman they impregnated lets them.

A woman decides to have sex with the man. The man is driven by the inner
desire which nature has given him in order to spread his DNA.

Still, if a woman says no, unless the man rapes her, she makes the decision to have sex or not.

It takes two to tangle as they say, but in this dance, the woman leads.

 

[Enilorac]

Which hospitals won't treat women when their pregnancy is in difficulty?

First, I ever heard of it.

There is a lady from Louisiana who is attempting to terminate her pregnancy because the fetus has lethal and non-survivable defects, something called acrania. Its getting nuts.

There are women with certain conditions like Rheumatoid arthritis that use chemotherapy agents for treatment. Doctors and pharmacists are refusing to fill the prescriptions because they can also be used to abort pregnancies. This "pro-life" rubbish is going to kill women.

 

[Enilorac]

Men only get off if the woman they impregnated lets them.

A woman decides to have sex with the man. The man is driven by the inner
desire which nature has given him in order to spread his DNA.

Still, if a woman says no, unless the man rapes her, she makes the decision to have sex or not.

It takes two to tangle as they say, but in this dance, the woman leads.

So, you're saying that a man is incapable of saying no and keeping his hormones in check? IF that is true, then he's not a man, he's an animal. Nope...men can say no too. They are not dogs or cats who are sniffing out a female in heat and going ahead and doing his thing. Is he a slave to his hormones or is he a rational, thinking, human being able to discern right and wrong?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Men only get off if the woman they impregnated lets them.

A woman decides to have sex with the man. The man is driven by the inner
desire which nature has given him in order to spread his DNA.

Still, if a woman says no, unless the man rapes her, she makes the decision to have sex or not.

It takes two to tangle as they say, but in this dance, the woman leads.

Are we really saying that men have some uncontrollable urge to have sex due to their innate nature and women don’t, and their function is to moderate men’s access to sex?

Are we really going to say men are that stupid and that women are in charge of keeping them in line? Does that mean that men who complain their wives aren’t having sex with them enough should be told that’s her prerogative because it’s the women who make all the decisions in sex?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

There is a lady from Louisiana who is attempting to terminate her pregnancy because the fetus has lethal and non-survivable defects, something called acrania. Its getting nuts.

There are women with certain conditions like Rheumatoid arthritis that use chemotherapy agents for treatment. Doctors and pharmacists are refusing to fill the prescriptions because they can also be used to abort pregnancies. This "pro-life" rubbish is going to kill women.

Methotrexate. I’m on it full-time to manage Crohn’s Disease. Pharmacists not doing their jobs is enough of a problem that I got a call from my doctor telling me what to do if I am denied a refill from my pharmacist. I’ve been on the medication off-and-on since 2015, never had an an issue getting it and there was no concern before this. One of the tips I got was to send my husband to pick up my meds because nobody asks men who get methotrexate any questions… Just women.

 

[Enilorac]

I am so sick of people thinking they can be the arbiter of what my doctor prescribes. I take a medication that has "addiction potential". Due to what I take it for, it has the opposite effect on me. I broke my leg almost 4 weeks ago and have not slept more than 3 hours at a time because I cannot get pain relief. Why? Another "addiction potential". I've noticed that men get less crud over certain medications than others. I may end up committed to a rubber room if I can't get some sleep.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

There is a lady from Louisiana who is attempting to terminate her pregnancy because the fetus has lethal and non-survivable defects, something called acrania. Its getting nuts.

There are women with certain conditions like Rheumatoid arthritis that use chemotherapy agents for treatment. Doctors and pharmacists are refusing to fill the prescriptions because they can also be used to abort pregnancies. This "pro-life" rubbish is going to kill women.

Oh so the lady self-diagnosed herself?

Sorry, they don't admit people who self-diagnose just to get an abortion.