Is it morally wrong to kill someone while they are asleep?

[leftrightleftrightleft]

The majority of the time you are sleeping, you are unconscious (minus lucid dreaming).

Your "self" doesn't exist. "You" do not exist for that time. You go to bed at night, and you wake up without any cognition of how much time passed. You did not experience those hours of your life. "You" were gone.

If you never woke up again after going to sleep, you would never know. You would not even exist to know. You would not exist to feel sad about it. You would not exist to recollect on your life. You would not exist to feel outraged by it. You just wouldn't wake up. "You" would stop existing permanently.

So if someone were to put a poisonous gas into your bedroom while you are sleeping, and you die, is this wrong? "Who" is it harming?



Note: I'm not talking about whether it is legally wrong, but whether it is morally wrong.

 

[ForJesusChrist]

Isnt it morally wrong to kill in general???

 

[Hetta]

Why would you being unconscious make any difference? You're still dead.

 

[FuzzyBunnySlippers]

Remind me never to accept a sleep over invitation from you.


Thou shalt not murder.
When the self is asleep they are still present in this life. Taking them from it because they're asleep is cowardly, immoral, and cold blooded murder. Of course it is wrong.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Isnt it morally wrong to kill in general???

In the case of the person being unconscious, just "who" are you killing or harming?

The unconscious person you kill will never become conscious again, and thus will never even know anything happened.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Why would you being unconscious make any difference? You're still dead.

Are you agreeing with the OP or disagreeing with the OP?

Sorry, your post seems ambiguous.

 

[Soul2Soul]

Remind me never to accept a sleep over invitation from you.

 

[Hetta]

Are you agreeing with the OP or disagreeing with the OP?

Sorry, your post seems ambiguous.

I'm disagreeing. It doesn't matter if a person is asleep, they are still a person.

By your logic, it's okay also to rape or torture a sleeping person.

 

[Strathos]

Yes it is...

 

[Soul2Soul]

The majority of the time you are sleeping, you are unconscious (minus lucid dreaming).

Your "self" doesn't exist. "You" do not exist for that time. You go to bed at night, and you wake up without any cognition of how much time passed. You did not experience those hours of your life. "You" were gone.

If you never woke up again after going to sleep, you would never know. You would not even exist to know. You would not exist to feel sad about it. You would not exist to recollect on your life. You would not exist to feel outraged by it. You just wouldn't wake up. "You" would stop existing permanently.

So if someone were to put a poisonous gas into your bedroom while you are sleeping, and you die, is this wrong? "Who" is it harming?



Note: I'm not talking about whether it is legally wrong, but whether it is morally wrong.

This reminds me of the time when I went in for an operation .... one minute I was speaking to the nurse who was about to administer the general anaesthetic ... next thing I know I was coming to in another room.

In the example you cited above as well as in my case at the hospital .. I think that being rendered provisionally unconscious does not amount to being temporarily deceased. I wanted to regain consciousness after the operation as I had plans ... similarly I wouldn't set the alarm to wake me up the next morning if I did not have anything to do that day. I would not want to be killed in my sleep but oddly enough I would probably prefer dying in my sleep ...... just not deliberately!

 

[ForJesusChrist]

In the case of the person being unconscious, just "who" are you killing or harming?

The unconscious person you kill will never become conscious again, and thus will never even know anything happened.

It makes no difference, you would still be taking there life.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

I'm disagreeing. It doesn't matter if a person is asleep, they are still a person.

By your logic, it's okay also to rape or torture a sleeping person.

No, its not the same logic.

If you rape or torture a person in their sleep, then they wake up and realize that it has happened. That is wrong. Their "self" becomes conscious again afterwards and they then have to deal with what has happened while they were sleeping. They become conscious again and they have to deal with the bruises, scarring, and whatever emotional trauma comes from the knowledge that they were raped or tortured.

Furthermore, raping or torturing a person in their sleep would be very difficult to do without the person waking up. My scenario has them killed without any indication that it is happening. They never remotely regain consciousness. They never even come close to waking up. They simply just don't wake up. They don't have to deal with the bruises, scars or emotional trauma of knowing that they were killed in their sleep. They simply don't wake up.

If you never wake up, then "you" never have to deal with the fact that you died. You just remain unconscious forever. What harm is done to "you"?

 

[Hetta]

What harm is done to "you"?

You had your life taken away from you. You didn't get to see your kids grow up and marry and enjoy their kids. You didn't get to stay with your spouse/SO for the rest of your natural lives, your future was curtailed ... I could go on.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

In the example you cited above as well as in my case at the hospital .. I think that being rendered provisionally unconscious does not amount to being temporarily deceased.

I never made that argument. When you are sleeping you are medically alive. However, in a Cartesian sense, you are not philosophically alive because you are not consciously thinking. "I think therefore I am" is not true when sleeping. When you are sleeping, there is no "I am". "You" do not exist while sleeping.

I wanted to regain consciousness after the operation as I had plans ... similarly I wouldn't set the alarm to wake me up the next morning if I did not have anything to do that day. I would not want to be killed in my sleep but oddly enough I would probably prefer dying in my sleep ...... just not deliberately!

But if you had gone into that operating room and been put under and then killed, you would not be here now to ponder your plans and regret that you did not get to fulfill them. You just wouldn't exist. "You" would be in the exact same state as if you were put under: unconscious.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

You had your life taken away from you. You didn't get to see your kids grow up and marry and enjoy their kids. You didn't get to stay with your spouse/SO for the rest of your natural lives, your future was curtailed ... I could go on.

But if you are unconscious, then "you" do not exist. How can harm be done to something which does not exist?

You would not be here to mourn the fact that you didn't get to see your kids grow up and marry and enjoy their kids. And you would have had no fear or harm come to you. You would not even had a single moment to think about such a thing. You would be unconscious when you go to bed, and you would not wake up. You go to bed thinking about your kids and loving your kids. And that's it. Regret is not possible if you don't exist.

 

[Hetta]

How does an unconscious person not exist? In that case you can do anything you want to that non-existent person .. because they don't exist. So why not rape? Because it wakes them up? So a person only 'exists' when they are awake? That's just silly. There is nothing about sleep that makes a person not exist.

I am one of the lightest sleepers that I know - mainly because I am a mom. I wake up when a floorboard in another room creaks. The chances are that I would wake up when I heard the hiss of gas and, guess what, I now exist. So are you going to keep on pumping gas into the room now that I exist.

 

[MoneyGuy]

The OP hasn't thought this through or is using very flawed logic.

Of course it's still you when you're sleeping.

Your spouse needs to sleep with one eye open. Or in a separate bedroom. Or maybe in a different house.

 

[Hetta]

But if you are unconscious, then "you" do not exist. How can harm be done to something which does not exist?

You would not be here to mourn the fact that you didn't get to see your kids grow up and marry and enjoy their kids. And you would have had no fear or harm come to you. You would not even had a single moment to think about such a thing. You would be unconscious when you go to bed, and you would not wake up. You go to bed thinking about your kids and loving your kids. And that's it. Regret is not possible if you don't exist.

Your thoughts on people's "existence" is pretty scary and immoral in itself. It sounds as though you would be the one with "no regrets" if you gassed a sleeping person.

 

[Hetta]

Your spouse needs to sleep with one eye open. Or in a separate bedroom. Or maybe in a different house.

Or maybe on a different continent under a new name.

 

[KitKatMatt]

If you off me at a slumber party, I'm going to haunt you forever and change every hyperlink you click to the Youtube page of Rick Astley's "Never Gonna Give You Up".