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In Gods eyes, What is Marriage?

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nephilimiyr

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Genesis 2:23-24, And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

My questions for all of you is: in God's eyes does marriage have to be a ceremony made in public? Does it have to be legally accepted by the world authority that the man and woman live under? Does God command these things to be apart of marriage?
 

Philip

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Marriage is a Holy Mystery in which God unites a man and a woman as a symbol of the marriage between Christ and His Church. It is also the means of procreation blessed by God.

nephilimiyr said:
My questions for all of you is: in God's eyes does marriage have to be a ceremony made in public?

Like all of the Mysteries/Sacraments, there is a ceremony which God uses.

Does it have to be legally accepted by the world authority that the man and woman live under?

No, it doesn't. There is a distinct difference between the Holy Mystery of marriage and the legal contract of a marriage. However, God does command us honor our governments. Thus, the marriage should not flaunt the laws.

Does God command these things to be apart of marriage?

Not sure what you mean here. :scratch:
 
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nephilimiyr

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Does God command these things to be apart of marriage?

Philip said:
Not sure what you mean here. :scratch:
What I mean is, does God command that to be married you have to make it a public ceremony, do you have to be married in a church in order for God to recognize it? This is actually the main question I'm asking otherwise I know what the covenant of marriage is. Is there scripture where God actually gives the "hows" to be married. Are there any commands on how this is to be done?
 
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Philip

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nephilimiyr said:
What I mean is, does God command that to be married you have to make it a public ceremony,

I am not sure if there is a specific verse that states says one way or the other. Since marriage serves as a public testimony and has many public implications, I think there should be some public witnesses to the event.


do you have to be married in a church in order for God to recognize it?

Within a building? Not sure -- I would say that it is up to the bishop.
Within the Body of Christ? Yes.
 
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nephilimiyr

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Philip said:
Since marriage serves as a public testimony and has many public implications, I think there should be some public witnesses to the event.
I'm wondering why there has to be witnesses to the event. I mean isn't God a big enough witness?

Take Romeo and Juliet for example. Although they are fictional characters they loved each other yet their families hated each other and would never allow the two to get married. Now are these two supposed to go through life without getting "married" because no one is willing to witness the marriage?

Within a building? Not sure -- I would say that it is up to the bishop.
Within the Body of Christ? Yes.
When I say church I mean in the religion that they are in. That doesn't mean a building per say.

Ok now you say within the body of Christ right. Now does that mean that if you were married outside the body of Christ that that makes your marriage null in void? Do people need to be remarried once they come into the body of Chirst?
 
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nephilimiyr

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thereselittleflower said:
Hi Neph

In addition to what Phillip said above, it is a covenant . . and exchange of persons. :)


Peace in Him!
This I totally agree with, thanks Therese!
 
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Philip

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nephilimiyr said:
I'm wondering why there has to be witnesses to the event. I mean isn't God a big enough witness?

The purpose of marriage is to testify to Christ's love for His Church and her devotion to Him. How can there be testimony without witnesses?

Take Romeo and Juliet for example. Although they are fictional characters they loved each other yet their families hated each other and would never allow the two to get married. Now are these two supposed to go through life without getting "married" because no one is willing to witness the marriage?

But remember, Romeo and Juliet had other friends who were willing to help them. Certainly these could serve as witnesses.

Ok now you say within the body of Christ right. Now does that mean that if you were married outside the body of Christ that that makes your marriage null in void?

Not too sure. I am tempted to say that there is nothing outside of Christ that is pleasing to God.

Do people need to be remarried once they come into the body of Chirst?

Their marriage should be blessed/completed.
 
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nephilimiyr

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Philip said:
The purpose of marriage is to testify to Christ's love for His Church and her devotion to Him. How can there be testimony without witnesses?
Isn't the fact that the two live as man and wife testimony enough? When I new couple enter into your church do you ask them to provide a marriage certificate as proof? I hope not because the proof of the two haveing become one should be good enough for the testimony. My whole point boils down to Gen. 2:24 where there is no mention of witnesses at all but a clear statement of the man and woman joining together.

But remember, Romeo and Juliet had other friends who were willing to help them. Certainly these could serve as witnesses.
LOL, no I don't remember but what good is there to have witnesses to an event that most don't agree with? lol, you don't have to answer this!

Not too sure. I am tempted to say that there is nothing outside of Christ that is pleasing to God.
I'm not sure either ;)

Their marriage should be blessed/completed.
How does this blessing take place? By witnesses?
 
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nephilimiyr

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Philip I'm asking these questions because for one my wife and I are going to be celebrating our 20th year of legal marriage this May 24th. We were never married in a church but in a court house. Now before we did this we did have what others would call "pre-marital" sex but to me that first night was our wedding night and after that first night I have always treated her as my bride and I do believe that God recognizes that night as our wedding night.

Did we have witnesses to this fact? Yes, our best friends at the time who got us together in the first place knew what we had planned to do.
 
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Crazy Liz

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Neph, I think different cultures have different wedding customs and this is OK with God. Marriage is public, not private in that in some way the community recognizes this couple as husband and wife to each other and to no one else. (OK, I'm not talking about any kind of polygamy issue here.)

Our society recognizes a couple as husband and wife if they have a civil or religiuos marriage ceremony. You are no less married having had a civil ceremony than you would be if you had had a religious ceremony.

Our first human ancestors in the Garden had no ceremony or witnesses other than God, but then again there was no one else to witness it at that time. Later, when there were more humans, they were all witnesses to Adam and Eve's marriage (although not to their wedding) as they recognized them as husband and wife.
 
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AngelusSax

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Take Romeo and Juliet for example. Although they are fictional characters they loved each other yet their families hated each other and would never allow the two to get married. Now are these two supposed to go through life without getting "married" because no one is willing to witness the marriage?
Well, considering Romeo and Juliet commit suicide, I wouldn't choose them as models . . . ;)

Seriously though, they did have friends that could've acted as witnesses. However, look at when marriage is mentioned in the Bible. What will you see immediately before, or immediately, after? That the two became one flesh.

That's a pretty powerful indication there. I don't think it has to be a ceremony with people as witnesses. If it did, then Adam and Eve were not married.
 
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daveleau

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nephilimiyr said:
My questions for all of you is: in God's eyes does marriage have to be a ceremony made in public? Does it have to be legally accepted by the world authority that the man and woman live under? Does God command these things to be apart of marriage?
I don't know of any place where God mentions how we are married. What do you think of the belief that two are married once they have sexual relations? Is the act of making love the creation of a marriage in God's eyes?
 
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thereselittleflower

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daveleau said:
I don't know of any place where God mentions how we are married. What do you think of the belief that two are married once they have sexual relations? Is the act of making love the creation of a marriage in God's eyes?
No because marriage is a covenant that requires the giving and receiving of vows . .that is why sex outside of the marriage covenant is a travesty of the act of the marriage covenant . . sex . .

All Covenants have acts by which the coenant is regularly renewed. . sex is the act by which the marriage covenant is renewed . .

Communion is the act by which our New Covenant relationship with God is renewd . .

The Act of Sex is a renewal of the marriage VOW . . . so sex, outside of marriage is a travesty of that vow it is supposed to be, but cannot be . .


Peace in Him!
 
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Neenie

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I once believed that a prayer In the presence of God was enough to be seen as marriage In Gods eyes. However God has now convinced me that It must be In done In the presence of the church and God together which makes It all more official. It has always confused though, because the bible never specifically says sex out side marriage is a sin, or more to the point never says what constitutes of marriage...
 
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tonya

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daveleau said:
I don't know of any place where God mentions how we are married. What do you think of the belief that two are married once they have sexual relations? Is the act of making love the creation of a marriage in God's eyes?
I am so gald you brought this up..I am not trying to get into any real big debates here, but i once heard a preacher say that when 2 people lay together and were intimate(seX) and only with each other the Lord saw them as married, that made me do some thinking..b/c that bible saysa man shall leave his father and mother and be joined unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh...it doesn't say anything about weddings and churches...that is alot to think about...I personally think that you should probably get in front of the Lord and say those vows to one another...just food for thought...i hope i did not offend anyone by my 2 cents worth...
 
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Crazy Liz

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thereselittleflower said:
No because marriage is a covenant that requires the giving and receiving of vows . .

Actually, no. Vows are the central feature in medeival and modern Western wedding ceremonies, but vows are not an essential feature of weddings in all times, places and cultures.

Vows certainly are a good way to mark the beginning of a marriage, for the reasons you stated, among others, but the Bibe never indicates that God does not recognize a marriage that was created without vows. In fact, the Bible never mentions vows as an element of marriage or part of a wedding ceremony.

All cultures have some concept of marriage and some way to mark or recognize within the community as a whole that a marriage relationship exists between two people. All cultures have customs and/or laws requiring that this relationship be respected by others. Whatever is required in a particular culture to mark a relationship as a marriage makes it a marriage. In America, it is generally getting a license from the state plus a civil or religious ceremony by which the couple takes each other as husband and wife (i.e. consents to creation of a marriage relationship between them).
 
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Tobias

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Gen 24:
[64] And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she alighted from the camel,
[65] and said to the servant, "Who is the man yonder, walking in the field to meet us?" The servant said, "It is my master." So she took her veil and covered herself.
[66] And the servant told Isaac all the things that he had done.
[67] Then Isaac brought her into the tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her. So Isaac was comforted after his mother's death.



Adam and Eve were not the only ones in th Bible to not have a wedding. I can't see any place here where Issac and Rebecca did either. Unless you are counting her going away party before she left home and before they even met each other?

The Bible is quite vague on any set marrage rules. What is the difference between fornication and the act of marrage? I think the only determining factor we can get from the Bible is intent. If a couple intends their actions to be that of marrage, then God sees their hearts.

There is no biblical law saying it must be publicly declared before God recognizes it. There are no vows God requires. The only thing written is that they must leave father and mother and cleave to each other. However, does this mean that if you move into mom and dad's house after the wedding you are not married? I don't think it refers to that!

Many marrage certificates have been issued to people who have no intention of cleaving to their spouse. I remember working with a guy who used to go around saying his wife was married but he wasn't! But if a couple like that shows up at church wanting to get things right with God, they would be treated so much different than a couple who didn't happen to have a marrage certificate.

Couples who have chosen to live togeather without making it official run strait into problems with man's laws and traditions the minute they show up at a church looking for help. Many times instead of encouragement on how to work through their problems they are told that they are living in sin and must separate until they can have the ceremony man requires.

What is the purpose of our tradition of marrage vows?? Because we know that when times are tough we need a little extra insentive sometimes to make it through. So we promise "in sickness and in health." Yet here we have a couple who for all intents and purposes may very well be concidered married in God's eyes, and we tell them that they aren't and add undue stress on their relationship by ripping them apart.

I know there are times in my marrage that if I was told that I wasn't really married to my wife but had the choice to do it now... my mind would automatically fill in the rest of the logic of where this is going and say ""umm, no thanks." Especially if my wife was the one who "found religion" and was giving me an ultimatum of get out or get married.

How many couples who potentually have been married in God's eyes have been ripped apart by our insistance in keeping man's traditions??
 
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Crazy Liz

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Tobias said:
Gen 24:
[64] And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she alighted from the camel,
[65] and said to the servant, "Who is the man yonder, walking in the field to meet us?" The servant said, "It is my master." So she took her veil and covered herself.
[66] And the servant told Isaac all the things that he had done.
[67] Then Isaac brought her into the tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her. So Isaac was comforted after his mother's death.



Adam and Eve were not the only ones in th Bible to not have a wedding. I can't see any place here where Issac and Rebecca did either. Unless you are counting her going away party before she left home and before they even met each other?

You are quite right. There is no mention of a marriage ceremony or vows anywhere in the Bible, yet WRT Isaac and Rebecca, it does say, "she became his wife." WRT Judah and Tamar (Genesis 38), OTOH, it is very clear that she did not become his wife, although he did legitimate her sons.

IOW, the OT gives examples of many "family irregularities." These gnerally were regularized in some way. Some examples can be found in Genesis 12 and Genesis 20. In both of these, there was a question as to whose wife Sarah was. What is clear from these stories is the importance of her having only one husband, and something had to be done to clarify who her husband was.

What I see here is a variety of practices, but when there was an irregularity, something was done to clarify whether there was a marriage or not.

The Bible is quite vague on any set marrage rules. What is the difference between fornication and the act of marrage? I think the only determining factor we can get from the Bible is intent. If a couple intends their actions to be that of marrage, then God sees their hearts.

Read Genesis 12-38 and see whether the private intention of the two individuals alone seems to be enough. I don't think it is. Read Exodus 21, where the status of a wife, a daughter and a female slave are clarified.

Other places in the Law talk about the consent of a virgin's father being necessary for her to be married.

There is no biblical law saying it must be publicly declared before God recognizes it. There are no vows God requires.

You are correct that God does not require vows. You are also correct that the order in which the steps are taken is not all that important. However, it is also clear that there are some circumstances in which it might be unclear whether a couple is married or not, and in these situations, something is always done to clarify their status within the community. Therefore, I think one of the elements of marriage is that the community eventually recognizes the relationship as a marriage and not as some other kind of relationship such as slavery, prostitution, rape or adultery. The very concept of adultery presupposes marriage. Deuteronomy prescribes a method for making it clear that a marriage has ended, as well.

Couples who have chosen to live togeather without making it official run strait into problems with man's laws and traditions the minute they show up at a church looking for help. Many times instead of encouragement on how to work through their problems they are told that they are living in sin and must separate until they can have the ceremony man requires.

I agree such couples are often mistreated by churches. However, I also think it is biblical to find some way to clarify whether they are married or not. Forcing an immediate separation while this is being worked out is not necessary, IMHO. If they are living as a family, especially if they have children together, the church should not split them up, but should help them regularize their marriage so everyone will understand they are to be treated as a married couple.
 
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