Illustrations That Teach

[CoreyD]

A wealthy man hired some servants to work at his huge factory.
The supervisor in charge made out a contract, which gave each hired worker the instructions the manager wanted each to carry out for a specified amount of cash.
The workers were divided into groups.

This is a brief excerpt of the contract Group D workers got.

• Milk the cows and goats
• Clean the pens, and troughs
• Gather hay, and lay down fresh bedding
• Make sure the animals are in good health, and comfortable

and you will be paid at the end of the day

At the end of the day, the supervisor gathered the workers. and paid them their wages... all but the Group D workers.
What was the problem?
No milk had been collected, and the pens, troughs, abd beddings were not cleaned.

The supervisor asked the group for an account.
Everyone looked at one another. Then one of them said, in an almost confident, and authoritative voice... "Sir... Did the contract not say, Make sure the animals are in good health, and comfortable, and you will be paid at the end of the day?

The supervisor's face froze...


During Jesus earthly ministry, he taught persons the truth, which involved specific requirements, and when Jesus left earth, he continued to teach the truth, through his disciples on earth.
Here is an excerpt of those requirements...

• Worshippers must be true, and offer worship that is in spirit and truth, John 4:23, 24
• Follow Jesus. John 8:12
• Remain in Jesus' word. John 8:31, 32
• Love Jesus by obeying what Jesus commanded. John 14:15, 21-24
• Bear much fruit, by doing the works commanded by Jesus and his father. John 15:8-10
• Love one another. John 13:34, 35; John 15:12-14
• Get correct knowledge - truth - of God and Jesus Christ. John 17:3; 1 Timothy 2:3, 4
• Do not be of this world. John 17:15, 16
• Endure to the end. Matthew 10:22; Matthew 24:13
• Strive - make every effort - to gain life. Luke 13:24
• Call on the name of Jehovah, and go out and preach the gospel. Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9-15; 1 Corinthians 9:16, 17
• Hold firmly to the message of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:2
• Love the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
• Love the brothers. 1 John 3:14, 15

Only by meeting all these requirements is one saved,

The next time you hear someone say... or you are tempted to say, "all that is required is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will get saved", think about the look on Jesus face.


I do welcome any help in improving my illustrations.
Is there anything wrong with this illustration, or is it fitting?

 

[Clare73]

A wealthy man hired some servants to work at his huge factory.
The supervisor in charge made out a contract, which gave each hired worker the instructions the manager wanted each to carry out for a specified amount of cash.
The workers were divided into groups.
This is a brief excerpt of the contract Group D workers got.

• Milk the cows and goats
• Clean the pens, and troughs
• Gather hay, and lay down fresh bedding
• Make sure the animals are in good health, and comfortable

and you will be paid at the end of the day
At the end of the day, the supervisor gathered the workers. and paid them their wages... all but the Group D workers.
What was the problem?
No milk had been collected, and the pens, troughs, abd beddings were not cleaned.
The supervisor asked the group for an account.
Everyone looked at one another. Then one of them said, in an almost confident, and authoritative voice... "Sir... Did the contract not say, Make sure the animals are in good health, and comfortable, and you will be paid at the end of the day?
The supervisor's face froze...
During Jesus earthly ministry, he taught persons the truth, which involved specific requirements, and when Jesus left earth, he continued to teach the truth, through his disciples on earth.
Here is an excerpt of those requirements...

• Worshippers must be true, and offer worship that is in spirit and truth, John 4:23, 24
• Follow Jesus. John 8:12
• Remain in Jesus' word. John 8:31, 32
• Love Jesus by obeying what Jesus commanded. John 14:15, 21-24
• Bear much fruit, by doing the works commanded by Jesus and his father. John 15:8-10
• Love one another. John 13:34, 35; John 15:12-14
• Get correct knowledge - truth - of God and Jesus Christ. John 17:3; 1 Timothy 2:3, 4
• Do not be of this world. John 17:15, 16
• Endure to the end. Matthew 10:22; Matthew 24:13
• Strive - make every effort - to gain life. Luke 13:24
• Call on the name of Jehovah, and go out and preach the gospel. Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9-15; 1 Corinthians 9:16, 17
• Hold firmly to the message of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:2
• Love the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
• Love the brothers. 1 John 3:14, 15

Only by meeting all these requirements is one saved,
The next time you hear someone say... or you are tempted to say, "all that is required is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will get saved", think about the look on Jesus face.
I do welcome any help in improving my illustrations.
Is there anything wrong with this illustration, or is it fitting?

Salvation is not earned, it is granted through faith (Eph 2:8-9).

Salvation, due to the change of heart in the saved, always results in obedience.
Obedience does not earn salvation, it is the spiritual result of salvation.

Which is why no obedience is a demonstration of no salvation.

 

[David Lamb]

A wealthy man hired some servants to work at his huge factory.
The supervisor in charge made out a contract, which gave each hired worker the instructions the manager wanted each to carry out for a specified amount of cash.
The workers were divided into groups.

This is a brief excerpt of the contract Group D workers got.

• Milk the cows and goats
• Clean the pens, and troughs
• Gather hay, and lay down fresh bedding
• Make sure the animals are in good health, and comfortable

and you will be paid at the end of the day

At the end of the day, the supervisor gathered the workers. and paid them their wages... all but the Group D workers.
What was the problem?
No milk had been collected, and the pens, troughs, abd beddings were not cleaned.

The supervisor asked the group for an account.
Everyone looked at one another. Then one of them said, in an almost confident, and authoritative voice... "Sir... Did the contract not say, Make sure the animals are in good health, and comfortable, and you will be paid at the end of the day?

The supervisor's face froze...


During Jesus earthly ministry, he taught persons the truth, which involved specific requirements, and when Jesus left earth, he continued to teach the truth, through his disciples on earth.
Here is an excerpt of those requirements...

• Worshippers must be true, and offer worship that is in spirit and truth, John 4:23, 24
• Follow Jesus. John 8:12
• Remain in Jesus' word. John 8:31, 32
• Love Jesus by obeying what Jesus commanded. John 14:15, 21-24
• Bear much fruit, by doing the works commanded by Jesus and his father. John 15:8-10
• Love one another. John 13:34, 35; John 15:12-14
• Get correct knowledge - truth - of God and Jesus Christ. John 17:3; 1 Timothy 2:3, 4
• Do not be of this world. John 17:15, 16
• Endure to the end. Matthew 10:22; Matthew 24:13
• Strive - make every effort - to gain life. Luke 13:24
• Call on the name of Jehovah, and go out and preach the gospel. Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9-15; 1 Corinthians 9:16, 17
• Hold firmly to the message of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:2
• Love the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
• Love the brothers. 1 John 3:14, 15

Only by meeting all these requirements is one saved,

The next time you hear someone say... or you are tempted to say, "all that is required is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will get saved", think about the look on Jesus face.


I do welcome any help in improving my illustrations.
Is there anything wrong with this illustration, or is it fitting?

No, praise our wonderful God, we don't have to meet that list of requirements in order to be saved. Indeed, as Paul wrote to the Christians at Ephesus, it was while we were dead in trespasses that God gave us newness of life:

“4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,” (Eph 2:4-6 NKJV)

Its all of God's grace. Once we have been saved, we are to show that in our lives by seeking to obey God. As Paul continues to the Ephesians:

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph 2:10 NKJV)

 

[CoreyD]

The supervisor thought that perhaps there was a misunderstanding, and he could reason with the individuals in the group... "You were asked to milk the cows; the goats, clean the pens and troughs, and change the beddings..."
He was mistaken. "Sir, so long as we made sure the animals were comfortable, and healthy, we covered everything."
Amazed, the supervisor closed his books. "Go home, and don't come back here."
"Sir. What about our pay?"
"Pay! For what! You did not carry out the requirement. There is no pay. The manager's words are no empty words. There are requirements in the contract. Leave the place."


Jesus said, Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

When millions take up weapons of war to fight for their country - killing "their brothers" in another country, and contributing to the starving of millions of children, they tell themselves, all they need to do to be a good Christian and be saved, is believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
When millions refuse to go onto the highways and byways and carry the gospel to their neighbors needing to hear, they tell themselves, all they need to do to be s good Christian and be saved, is believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
...

Jesus' words are no empty words.
There are requirements... which if you don't meet them, your belief is in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

@David Lamb

Once we have been saved, we are to show that in our lives by seeking to obey God.

So do you agree there are requirements we must meet?
Are the requirements in the OP not to be met?

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Colossians 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

@David Lamb please tell me about the "good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them", and how "faith" is demonstrated.

 

[David Lamb]

Jesus' words are no empty words.
There are requirements... which if you don't meet them, your belief is in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

@David Lamb

So do you agree there are requirements we must meet?
Are the requirements in the OP not to be met?


@David Lamb please tell me about the "good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them", and how "faith" is demonstrated.

The OP included these words: "Only by meeting all these requirements is one saved." In other words, the OP seemed to be saying that we need to do all the things in the list that was given, including good works, in order to be saved. That doesn't fit with the apostles' answer to the jailer at Philippi, who'd asked what he had to do to be saved: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved." Nor does it fit with what Paul wrote in Ephesians about being saved by grace, and not by works. It doesn't fit either with what the angel said to Joseph:

“And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins.” (Mt 1:21 NKJV)

The angel did not say that He will save His people from their sins, provided they do good works as well.

You ask me to tell you about the good works that a Christian is call;ed upon by God to do. These will vary from one person to another, but they are works which someone dead in trespasses and sins (which we all are by nature) cannot perform. It involves all our service for God. As to how faith is shown, as a Christian grows in sanctification, his life will (or should) increasingly become more and more like the Saviour, though never perfectly before we reach glory. This will include an increase in our service for God, our "good works".

 

[CoreyD]

The OP included these words: "Only by meeting all these requirements is one saved." In other words, the OP seemed to be saying that we need to do all the things in the list that was given, including good works, in order to be saved. That doesn't fit with the apostles' answer to the jailer at Philippi, who'd asked what he had to do to be saved: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved." Nor does it fit with what Paul wrote in Ephesians about being saved by grace, and not by works. It doesn't fit either with what the angel said to Joseph:

“And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins.” (Mt 1:21 NKJV)

The angel did not say that He will save His people from their sins, provided they do good works as well.

You ask me to tell you about the good works that a Christian is call;ed upon by God to do. These will vary from one person to another, but they are works which someone dead in trespasses and sins (which we all are by nature) cannot perform. It involves all our service for God. As to how faith is shown, as a Christian grows in sanctification, his life will (or should) increasingly become more and more like the Saviour, though never perfectly before we reach glory. This will include an increase in our service for God, our "good works".

Let's slow down a bit.
Is one saved if they do not worship God in spirit and truth?
Whatever your answer, please define 'saved' in the context of which you speak.

 

[David Lamb]

Let's slow down a bit.
Is one saved if they do not worship God in spirit and truth?
Whatever your answer, please define 'saved' in the context of which you speak.

I would reply with another question: How can an unsaved person worship God in spirit and in truth? I would say, on the basis of Scripture, that it is impossible. As Paul wrote to the Christians at Corinth:

“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.” (1Co 2:14 NKJV)

The "things of the Spirit of God" surely include worship. So we don't worship in order to be saved, but because we are.

 

[CoreyD]

I would reply with another question: How can an unsaved person worship God in spirit and in truth? I would say, on the basis of Scripture, that it is impossible. As Paul wrote to the Christians at Corinth:

“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.” (1Co 2:14 NKJV)

The "things of the Spirit of God" surely include worship. So we don't worship in order to be saved, but because we are.

I would like to know what an unsaved person is, but I haven't gotten that clear as yet.
If I were to ask, what determines that a person is saved, I don't know what the answer would be. Just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?
If I asked, if there are some persons who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, but are not saved, I would get a mixture of different answers - Yes. No. Maybe...
So, either way, I'm lost on that.

Then, no one is willing to explain themselves when asked to do so.
It's like taking a tour with a couple of "guides" who don't have a clue about anything you want to know.

If we ask question, and do not answer question, I don't believe we will get anywhere.
We will just be talking past each other, not with each other. Do you prefer that?

I would rather a conversation.
Romans 10:13 says, “For everyone who will call the name of THE LORD JEHOVAH shall be saved.” Acts 2:21
So I do not have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved then, do I?

Ephesians 2:5 says, It is by grace you have been saved.
So I do not have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved then, do I?

Ephesians 2:8 says, one is "saved through faith".
So I do not have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved then, do I?

1 Corinthians 15:1, 2 says, it through the Good News that one is saved.
So I do not have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved then, do I?

When a person talks about saved and unsaved in a context that is not clear, they do not help anyone understand anything.
When John came preaching, this is what the Bible says...
Luke 3:3-6
3 He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 4 As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet:
“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.
5 Every valley shall be filled in,
every mountain and hill made low.
The crooked roads shall become straight,
the rough ways smooth.
6 And all people will see God’s salvation.’”

What was dependent on seeing God’s salvation?
Was it hearing John's voice; repenting; getting baptized by John in repentance of sins?
Certainly, all those were required - important steps for the Jew, but was that all?
Not at all.

They had to accept the Messiah, and follow him.
This too, involved many requirements.

• They had to be baptized in the name of Jesus.
• They had to accept Jesus' word, and obey Jesus' commands.
• etc. ...as listed in the OP.

It was not a case of just believing in Jesus Christ.
If all that is required is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will get saved, then what is the purpose of scriptures such as these?

Acts 2:40-42
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.

If those persons did not get baptized, were they saved?
If they did not continue steadfast in the apostles' doctrine, were they saved?

Acts 16:29-32
29 The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved - you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.

If the jailer and his household did not accept the word spoken to them, were they saved?

The context of which the words "believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" is used, shows that this was part and parcel with all the things that were required to see the salvation of God.
Hence this is clearly expressed in the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, who said...

But the one who endures to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13​

Taking the statement out of context by saying "just believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved", or, "all that is required is to believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved", is misleading, and has misled many, into contributing to Christianity being made a mockery of, and spoken of abusively.

How can I illustrate this.
Imagine someone tells you, you can spend a vacation in Hawaii with them. All you have to do is buy a ticket... or, pack your bag."
Would you think that is all you need to do, or would you expect follow up instructions on what is required on your end, to actually get to Hawaii, and spend that vacation?

In the same way, those who were told, to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and they will be saved, understood that more was required, and they met those requirements.
Only then, were they considered saved, in the context of being "safe in God’s love". Jude 1:21

However, they knew that they had to remain faithful, and hold steadfast to the truth, in order to be saved.

 

[David Lamb]

I would like to know what an unsaved person is, but I haven't gotten that clear as yet.
If I were to ask, what determines that a person is saved, I don't know what the answer would be. Just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?
If I asked, if there are some persons who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, but are not saved, I would get a mixture of different answers - Yes. No. Maybe...
So, either way, I'm lost on that.

Then, no one is willing to explain themselves when asked to do so.
It's like taking a tour with a couple of "guides" who don't have a clue about anything you want to know.

If we ask question, and do not answer question, I don't believe we will get anywhere.
We will just be talking past each other, not with each other. Do you prefer that?

I would rather a conversation.
Romans 10:13 says, “For everyone who will call the name of THE LORD JEHOVAH shall be saved.” Acts 2:21
So I do not have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved then, do I?

Ephesians 2:5 says, It is by grace you have been saved.
So I do not have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved then, do I?

Ephesians 2:8 says, one is "saved through faith".
So I do not have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved then, do I?

1 Corinthians 15:1, 2 says, it through the Good News that one is saved.
So I do not have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved then, do I?

When a person talks about saved and unsaved in a context that is not clear, they do not help anyone understand anything.
When John came preaching, this is what the Bible says...
Luke 3:3-6
3 He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 4 As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet:
“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.
5 Every valley shall be filled in,
every mountain and hill made low.
The crooked roads shall become straight,
the rough ways smooth.
6 And all people will see God’s salvation.’”

What was dependent on seeing God’s salvation?
Was it hearing John's voice; repenting; getting baptized by John in repentance of sins?
Certainly, all those were required - important steps for the Jew, but was that all?
Not at all.

They had to accept the Messiah, and follow him.
This too, involved many requirements.

• They had to be baptized in the name of Jesus.
• They had to accept Jesus' word, and obey Jesus' commands.
• etc. ...as listed in the OP.

It was not a case of just believing in Jesus Christ.
If all that is required is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will get saved, then what is the purpose of scriptures such as these?

Acts 2:40-42
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.

If those persons did not get baptized, were they saved?
If they did not continue steadfast in the apostles' doctrine, were they saved?

Acts 16:29-32
29 The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved - you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.

If the jailer and his household did not accept the word spoken to them, were they saved?

The context of which the words "believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" is used, shows that this was part and parcel with all the things that were required to see the salvation of God.
Hence this is clearly expressed in the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, who said...

But the one who endures to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13​

Taking the statement out of context by saying "just believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved", or, "all that is required is to believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved", is misleading, and has misled many, into contributing to Christianity being made a mockery of, and spoken of abusively.

How can I illustrate this.
Imagine someone tells you, you can spend a vacation in Hawaii with them. All you have to do is buy a ticket... or, pack your bag."
Would you think that is all you need to do, or would you expect follow up instructions on what is required on your end, to actually get to Hawaii, and spend that vacation?

In the same way, those who were told, to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and they will be saved, understood that more was required, and they met those requirements.
Only then, were they considered saved, in the context of being "safe in God’s love". Jude 1:21

However, they knew that they had to remain faithful, and hold steadfast to the truth, in order to be saved.

Yes, it can be confusing. However, you quote the very words from Acts where the apostles told the jailer at Philippi that if he believed on the Lord Jesus Christ he would be saved. Of course, the apostles weren't telling the jailer that he just had to believe in the existence of Jesus, so when you talk about people who believe in Jesus but are not saved, I would say that if they believe Jesus is the only Saviour, the Lord, the only One Who can save sinners, then yes, they are indeed saved. If someone merely believes that a man called Jesus lived about 2000 years ago, then no, they are not. You quote Romans 10:13, but the word used for "Lord" is "Kurios". There is no word in that verse for Jehovah. Indeed, if we look at that verse in context, it is clear that it refers to Jesus:

“8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." 12 ¶ For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."” (Ro 10:8-13 NKJV)


So Romans 10:13 certainly does not mean that you don't have to believe in Jesus to be saved.

Similarly with Ephesians 2:8, which does say that we are saved through faith, but faith in whom? Again the context explains that we need to be "in Christ Jesus", and we can't be in Him if we don't believe in Him.

The same with 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, where Paul mentions the gospel he'd preached to them. What was that? The gospel of Jesus Christ, as he goes on to explain in the very next verses.

You ask about baptism. It is not necessary in order to be saved (the repentant thief on the cross was saved, but not baptized). Once one is a Christian, one should be baptized.

You then mention Acts 2:40-42:

40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.

This is about those who received his (Peter's) word, that is his preaching of the good news, the gospel, of Jesus Christ. Receiving his word involves accepting it, in other words, believing it. It was those people who then were baptized, continued in the apostles' doctrine, etc.

Similarly, if the jailer and his household had not accepted the word of the apostles, that means they wouldn't have believed, yet we are told they did believe, and were then baptized.

So to sum up, all that is necessary in order for a sinner to be saved is for him or her to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, but having said that, the One in Whom they are to believe is called the Lord Jesus Christ. His Lordship implies His rule over His people, so one result of having been saved is a desire to obey the Saviour more and more.

Well, I hope that is a little bit helpful.

 

[CoreyD]

Yes, it can be confusing. However, you quote the very words from Acts where the apostles told the jailer at Philippi that if he believed on the Lord Jesus Christ he would be saved. Of course, the apostles weren't telling the jailer that he just had to believe in the existence of Jesus, so when you talk about people who believe in Jesus but are not saved, I would say that if they believe Jesus is the only Saviour, the Lord, the only One Who can save sinners, then yes, they are indeed saved. If someone merely believes that a man called Jesus lived about 2000 years ago, then no, they are not.

So, you believe a person just has to "believe Jesus is the only Saviour, the Lord, the only One Who can save sinners", but they do not have to lift one finger to do anything that Jesus requires, and they are saved?
If you ever wonder why Christianity is the way it is today, this is one reason.

You quote Romans 10:13, but the word used for "Lord" is "Kurios". There is no word in that verse for Jehovah. Indeed, if we look at that verse in context, it is clear that it refers to Jesus:

“8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." 12 ¶ For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."” (Ro 10:8-13 NKJV)


So Romans 10:13 certainly does not mean that you don't have to believe in Jesus to be saved.

Similarly with Ephesians 2:8, which does say that we are saved through faith, but faith in whom? Again the context explains that we need to be "in Christ Jesus", and we can't be in Him if we don't believe in Him.

The same with 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, where Paul mentions the gospel he'd preached to them. What was that? The gospel of Jesus Christ, as he goes on to explain in the very next verses.

You ask about baptism. It is not necessary in order to be saved (the repentant thief on the cross was saved, but not baptized). Once one is a Christian, one should be baptized.

Okay. this one seems to explain saved, a bit.
So, are you saying being given a chance at gaining eternal life, is saved?

You then mention Acts 2:40-42:

40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.

This is about those who received his (Peter's) word, that is his preaching of the good news, the gospel, of Jesus Christ. Receiving his word involves accepting it, in other words, believing it. It was those people who then were baptized, continued in the apostles' doctrine, etc.

Similarly, if the jailer and his household had not accepted the word of the apostles, that means they wouldn't have believed, yet we are told they did believe, and were then baptized.

So, more than believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, is required. One must believe the word as well?

So to sum up, all that is necessary in order for a sinner to be saved is for him or her to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, but having said that, the One in Whom they are to believe is called the Lord Jesus Christ. His Lordship implies His rule over His people, so one result of having been saved is a desire to obey the Saviour more and more.

So, are you saying that obeying is a result of being saved?
Then, if I "believe Jesus is the only Saviour, the Lord, the only One Who can save sinners", II am saved, and I will not go to war and shoot my brother from another nation, and I will preach the gospel with urgency, to people of all nations?
If I do otherwise, then it means I am not saved... even though, I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, as my savior?

Well, I hope that is a little bit helpful.

I think it is going somewhere. I think there is potential.

 

[David Lamb]

So, you believe a person just has to "believe Jesus is the only Saviour, the Lord, the only One Who can save sinners", but they do not have to lift one finger to do anything that Jesus requires, and they are saved?
If you ever wonder why Christianity is the way it is today, this is one reason.



Okay. this one seems to explain saved, a bit.
So, are you saying being given a chance at gaining eternal life, is saved?


So, more than believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, is required. One must believe the word as well?


So, are you saying that obeying is a result of being saved?
Then, if I "believe Jesus is the only Saviour, the Lord, the only One Who can save sinners", II am saved, and I will not go to war and shoot my brother from another nation, and I will preach the gospel with urgency, to people of all nations?
If I do otherwise, then it means I am not saved... even though, I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, as my savior?


I think it is going somewhere. I think there is potential.

Thanks. I'll try to cover the points you have raised. First, believing but not lifting a finger. Yes, I do believe that a person who truly believes on the Lord Jesus Christ is certainly saved. However, such a true belief must show itself in a changed life. A person cannot truly say that they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ if they continue to live exactly as they did before.

Second, you seem to have got the idea that being saved means being given the chance of eternal life. No, I don't believe that, because Jesus said:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.” (Joh 6:47 NKJV)

He doesn't say, "...has a chance of eternal life."

You say that we need to believe the word as well as believing on the Saviour. If you mean the bible, the Word of God, then yes, but it is the bible from Genesis to Revelation that teaches about the Lord Jesus Christ. I used to have a book called "Christ in All the Scriptures", which showed how even the Old Testament books teach something about Christ. Also, Christ is called the "Word" (John 1), so to say we believe in the Incarnate Word of God, but we don't believe in the written Word of God, where we read about the Incarnate Word, just doesn't make any sense.

Regarding obedience, yes, I do believe that obedience (albeit imperfect obedience in this life) is a result of being saved. I am not sure that such obedience would mean that I couldn't fight if my country were at war - I do know that here in the UK we have SASRA, (The Soldiers' and Airmen's Scripture Readers Association), a Christian organisation consisting of Christians who are former members of the armed forces, who take the gospel of Jesus Christ to the various army barracks and air force bases in the UK. I get their prayer letter, and they do often mention Christian soldiers and airmen and women. As for taking the gospel to every nation, if Jesus had really meant that every individual Christian, in order to obey that command, had to take the gospel to every single nation in the world, then not even the apostles obeyed it. (No apostle came to what is now the UK, or what is now the USA, for instance). But each Christian is tasked with spreading the gospel. But all obedience is a result of being saved - we don't obey in order to be saved. How could we? Before being saved, we were spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, as we read in Ephesians 2.

 

[CoreyD]

Thanks. I'll try to cover the points you have raised. First, believing but not lifting a finger. Yes, I do believe that a person who truly believes on the Lord Jesus Christ is certainly saved. However, such a true belief must show itself in a changed life. A person cannot truly say that they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ if they continue to live exactly as they did before.

So, there is true belief and false belief in the Lord Jesus Christ?
I do not understand. Can you explain how one can believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and be saved, and yet it is a false belief?

Second, you seem to have got the idea that being saved means being given the chance of eternal life. No, I don't believe that, because Jesus said:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.” (Joh 6:47 NKJV)

He doesn't say, "...has a chance of eternal life."

So, are you saying that the person is living forever once they believe, and they cannot die?
Are you saying that the person cannot turn away from god, and not live forever?
Can you please explain Matthew 24:13, to me. Thanks.

You say that we need to believe the word as well as believing on the Saviour. If you mean the bible, the Word of God, then yes, but it is the bible from Genesis to Revelation that teaches about the Lord Jesus Christ. I used to have a book called "Christ in All the Scriptures", which showed how even the Old Testament books teach something about Christ. Also, Christ is called the "Word" (John 1), so to say we believe in the Incarnate Word of God, but we don't believe in the written Word of God, where we read about the Incarnate Word, just doesn't make any sense.

Are you saying to believe the word means to believe in Jesus Christ?
So, it's okay to say believe in the word of God, and you will be saved?

Regarding obedience, yes, I do believe that obedience (albeit imperfect obedience in this life) is a result of being saved. I am not sure that such obedience would mean that I couldn't fight if my country were at war - I do know that here in the UK we have SASRA, (The Soldiers' and Airmen's Scripture Readers Association), a Christian organisation consisting of Christians who are former members of the armed forces, who take the gospel of Jesus Christ to the various army barracks and air force bases in the UK. I get their prayer letter, and they do often mention Christian soldiers and airmen and women.

There are thousands, if not millions of people in government who identify as Christian, that order, support, and fight in wars.
Are you saying you do not know if doing so, is an act of disobedience to Jesus?

As for taking the gospel to every nation, if Jesus had really meant that every individual Christian, in order to obey that command, had to take the gospel to every single nation in the world, then not even the apostles obeyed it. (No apostle came to what is now the UK, or what is now the USA, for instance). But each Christian is tasked with spreading the gospel. But all obedience is a result of being saved - we don't obey in order to be saved. How could we?

So, if we do not spread the gospel, we are not saved. Confirming if this is what you are saying. Is it?

Before being saved, we were spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, as we read in Ephesians 2.

Yes, thanks.

 

[David Lamb]

So, there is true belief and false belief in the Lord Jesus Christ?
I do not understand. Can you explain how one can believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and be saved, and yet it is a false belief?


So, are you saying that the person is living forever once they believe, and they cannot die?
Are you saying that the person cannot turn away from god, and not live forever?
Can you please explain Matthew 24:13, to me. Thanks.


Are you saying to believe the word means to believe in Jesus Christ?
So, it's okay to say believe in the word of God, and you will be saved?


There are thousands, if not millions of people in government who identify as Christian, that order, support, and fight in wars.
Are you saying you do not know if doing so, is an act of disobedience to Jesus?


So, if we do not spread the gospel, we are not saved. Confirming if this is what you are saying. Is it?


Yes, thanks.

Again, I'll try to deal with your points in order. First, true and false belief in Jesus Christ. People believe all sorts of things about Him, and this was always the case. Think of the the Pharisees who witnessed Jesus casting out demons:

“32 As they went out, behold, they brought to Him a man, mute and demon-possessed. 33 And when the demon was cast out, the mute spoke. And the multitudes marveled, saying, "It was never seen like this in Israel!" 34 But the Pharisees said, "He casts out demons by the ruler of the demons."” (Mt 9:32-34 NKJV)

Yes, they believed in Jesus - He was there among them. They believed He did miracles, too, but they thought He did them by evil powers. They certainly didn't believe that Jesus was the Saviour. So their belief in Him was a false belief. Many people today believe that Jesus was a good man, but they don't believe He is God come in the flesh, God incarnate. When the apostles told the jailer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, that very title/name shows true belief. Jesus is Lord, not "just a man". The name "Jesus" means "Jehovah saves." The angel told Joseph:

“"And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."” (Mt 1:21 NKJV)

He is Christ, that is, Messiah, Anointed One, the One promised throughout the Old Testament. So yes, of course it is possible to believe false things about Jesus. Such false beliefs won't save anybody. It is not possible to be saved if you continue to have basically false beliefs about Jesus. I say "basically false beliefs" because I certainly don't mean that we have to have perfect knowledge and understanding of Jesus in order to be saved, but that's different from refusing to believe the basics about Who He is, that He is Lord, Saviour, fully God.

You ask about Matthew 24:13:

“But he who endures to the end shall be saved.” (Mt 24:13 NKJV)

If we only had that verse about enduring, we might think that it's entirely up to us to keep going. However, there are other verses where we read that God keeps/preserves Christians. Here are just two examples:

“3 ¶ Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (1Pe 1:3-5 NKJV)

“He guards the paths of justice, And preserves the way of His saints.” (Pr 2:8 NKJV)

Yes, of course Christians are to put effort into seeking to please God, and that includes continuing to believe on Him, but God promises to keep those who are His, those who truly believe on His Son.

Regarding belief in the Word of God (the bible), it's not possible to believe the whole bible without believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. The bible tells us about His person, His eternity, His incarnation, His teaching, His miracles, His crucifixion, His resurrection, His ascension, His second coming, and much more besides. So it would not make any sense to say, "I believe in Jesus Christ, but I don't believe the bible," or "I believe the bible, but I don't believe in Jesus." A bit like that old song about love and marriage, "You can't have one without the other!"

About fighting in wars, I can't think of anything Jesus said which suggest that it is inherently sinful to be in the armed forces. However, various groups of people approached John the Baptist, asking him what they should do. One group was some soldiers:

“Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, "And what shall we do?" So he said to them, "Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages."” (Lu 3:14 NKJV)

Not "Do not take part in a war," nor "Leave the army."

Regarding your final question about spreading the gospel, no Christian is perfect in this life, and they will fail God in different ways. I wouldn't pick on one thing and say that if a person does nothing to spread the gospel, they cannot be a Christian, but I would say that if someone claims to be a Christian, and their life shows absolutely no change, no sign that they are actually obeying Jesus, then it is doubtful if they really are Christians.

 

[CoreyD]

Again, I'll try to deal with your points in order. First, true and false belief in Jesus Christ. People believe all sorts of things about Him, and this was always the case. Think of the the Pharisees who witnessed Jesus casting out demons:

“32 As they went out, behold, they brought to Him a man, mute and demon-possessed. 33 And when the demon was cast out, the mute spoke. And the multitudes marveled, saying, "It was never seen like this in Israel!" 34 But the Pharisees said, "He casts out demons by the ruler of the demons."” (Mt 9:32-34 NKJV)

Yes, they believed in Jesus - He was there among them. They believed He did miracles, too, but they thought He did them by evil powers. They certainly didn't believe that Jesus was the Saviour. So their belief in Him was a false belief. Many people today believe that Jesus was a good man, but they don't believe He is God come in the flesh, God incarnate. When the apostles told the jailer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, that very title/name shows true belief. Jesus is Lord, not "just a man". The name "Jesus" means "Jehovah saves." The angel told Joseph:

“"And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."” (Mt 1:21 NKJV)

He is Christ, that is, Messiah, Anointed One, the One promised throughout the Old Testament. So yes, of course it is possible to believe false things about Jesus. Such false beliefs won't save anybody. It is not possible to be saved if you continue to have basically false beliefs about Jesus. I say "basically false beliefs" because I certainly don't mean that we have to have perfect knowledge and understanding of Jesus in order to be saved, but that's different from refusing to believe the basics about Who He is, that He is Lord, Saviour, fully God.

You ask about Matthew 24:13:

“But he who endures to the end shall be saved.” (Mt 24:13 NKJV)

If we only had that verse about enduring, we might think that it's entirely up to us to keep going. However, there are other verses where we read that God keeps/preserves Christians. Here are just two examples:

“3 ¶ Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (1Pe 1:3-5 NKJV)

“He guards the paths of justice, And preserves the way of His saints.” (Pr 2:8 NKJV)

Yes, of course Christians are to put effort into seeking to please God, and that includes continuing to believe on Him, but God promises to keep those who are His, those who truly believe on His Son.

Regarding belief in the Word of God (the bible), it's not possible to believe the whole bible without believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. The bible tells us about His person, His eternity, His incarnation, His teaching, His miracles, His crucifixion, His resurrection, His ascension, His second coming, and much more besides. So it would not make any sense to say, "I believe in Jesus Christ, but I don't believe the bible," or "I believe the bible, but I don't believe in Jesus." A bit like that old song about love and marriage, "You can't have one without the other!"

About fighting in wars, I can't think of anything Jesus said which suggest that it is inherently sinful to be in the armed forces. However, various groups of people approached John the Baptist, asking him what they should do. One group was some soldiers:

“Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, "And what shall we do?" So he said to them, "Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages."” (Lu 3:14 NKJV)

Not "Do not take part in a war," nor "Leave the army."

Regarding your final question about spreading the gospel, no Christian is perfect in this life, and they will fail God in different ways. I wouldn't pick on one thing and say that if a person does nothing to spread the gospel, they cannot be a Christian, but I would say that if someone claims to be a Christian, and their life shows absolutely no change, no sign that they are actually obeying Jesus, then it is doubtful if they really are Christians.

Thanks David.
We are only going in a circle, so I will just restart from the OP, and let Jesus make the application.
Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I know you don't see this in the same way I do, but that's okay.
No bad blood between us. Take care.

 

[David Lamb]

Thanks David.
We are only going in a circle, so I will just restart from the OP, and let Jesus make the application.
Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I know you don't see this in the same way I do, but that's okay.
No bad blood between us. Take care.

Thank you for your kind words. Certainly I didn't get the impression, either, that there was any bad blood between us - this has been a calm and reasoned discussion on both sides, I trust. I would just say that of course I agree that as the Saviour said, not everyone who merely calls Him "Lord" is truly saved, but only those who go on to show that He is really their Lord by seeking to do the will of God.

Thanks again, and God richly bless you!