If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[BobRyan]

Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

So may argue that all that was before the cross - so pay no attention to that part of "scripture" -- it is not for Christians. Yet "Chrisitan" means - follower of Christ and Christ is speaking both in John 14 - and in Exodus 20.

BABerean2 said: ↑

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

In the verse above we have two sets of commandments.
The commandments of Christ and the commandments of the Father.

By contrast to that speculative conclusion we have --

"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

So then what about Christ coming up with a different set of commandments - that are not those of God? Not those of God the Father and thereby negating the Commandments of God to replace them with other commandments - that come from Christ? Is that what we find in the New Testament?

Not according to Jesus' words in John's Gospel.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

And of course God the Father gave Jesus the ministry of "Savior" to the world such that Jesus prayed "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me - nevertheless not my will - but Thy will be done"

John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.

John said - we should do as Jesus did.
1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

==================================================
Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.


Do you view Jesus as opposed to the Father or the two and the Holy Spirit are "ONE God" in your/our monotheistic religion?

==========================

If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where??

Two simple questions - easy answer to each one - Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383
Resolves the entire debate on this thread.

 

[BobRyan]

"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

"Do we then make VOID the Law by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish THE Law" Rom 3:31

1 John 5:1-4 (NKJV)
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[BobRyan]

The TEN commandments are included in "THE LAW" the Moral Law of God that defines sin.

Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

Ten Commandments quoted in NT when giving examples of the LAW.

Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is THE Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through THE Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless THE law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Ten Commandments -- "The Word of God" -- "The Commandment of God" - "Moses Said"

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It based on "He who said" -

Rom 2
21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?
22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Nothing here just more scripture plucked out of context..... here is the "commandments" Jesus was talking about if one sits down and READS the entire chapters 14 AND 15 of John they will see there is no indication of any OTHER commandments suggested by some here.

12 “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15 No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17 This I command you, that you love one another.

Notice that this is REPEATED TWICE, this commandment of Jesus, while there is NO repetition of ANY specific commandment relating to Mosaic Law contained in Jesus own words like this.

 

[BobRyan]

Nothing here just more scripture ...

Your posts would be great with "more scripture"

And of course nothing in Jesus statements of the form "If I say it once - you can ignore it - but if I say it twice - do not ignore it".

I think we both agree to that.

Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
Matt 22 "Love your neighbor as yourself".

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

Matt 5
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from THE Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Nothing here just more scripture plucked out of context..... here is the "commandments" Jesus was talking about if one sits down and READS the entire chapters 14 AND 15 of John they will see there is no indication of any OTHER commandments suggested by some here.

12 “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15 No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17 This I command you, that you love one another.

Notice that this is REPEATED TWICE, this commandment of Jesus, while there is NO repetition of ANY specific commandment relating to Mosaic Law contained in Jesus own words like this.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Doesn't this text show that if you have love for your neighbour you will keep all of the commandments of God that show love for your neighbor? So trying to separate the commandments of God and the commandments of Jesus is silly because it all boils down to love.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Doesn't this text show that if you have love for your neighbour you will keep all of the commandments of God that show love for your neighbor? So trying to separate the commandments of God and the commandments of Jesus is silly because it all boils down to love.

Nope.... it doesn't say that it says by LOVING one doesn't need to worry about the Law they aren't going to break what Paul deems important parts of the Law that he LISTS there because doing so is NOT loving your neighbor.

In other words keeping commandments isn't necessarily loving your neighbor, but loving your neighbor just happens to have you not breaking some of the commandments.

I would emphasize Rom 13:10 Love works no ill to your neighbor, therefore love does ALL the Law requires of Christians (fulfills it).

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Nope.... it doesn't say that it says by LOVING one doesn't need to worry about the Law they aren't going to break what Paul deems important parts of the Law that he LISTS there because doing so is NOT loving your neighbor.

In other words keeping commandments isn't necessarily loving your neighbor, but loving your neighbor just happens to have you not breaking some of the commandments.

I would emphasize Rom 13:10 Love works no ill to your neighbor, therefore love does ALL the Law requires of Christians (fulfills it).

So which of the 10 commands has nothing to do with love?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

What do you understand verse 40 to be saying when it says that upon those 2 commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[BobRyan]

In the OP another example of the fact that Jesus was not out on his own contradicting the Commandments of God -

John 8
26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.”
27 They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father.
28 Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things. 29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.” 30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.”

 

[BABerean2]

Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.

How can you take a passage and make it mean the exact opposite of what is plainly written in the text?

6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;

9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
(Not like the Sinai covenant.)

On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;

For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
(They broke the Sinai covenant.)

10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(You left out this verse which says the Sinai covenant has become obsolete.)

Bob Ryan said...
"Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew"

A complete exegesis requires that we not leave out the verses that disprove our doctrine.

.

 

[BobRyan]

So which of the 10 commands has nothing to do with love?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

What do you understand verse 40 to be saying when it says that upon those 2 commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John said Love for God is expressed in "Keeping God's Commandments" -


1 John 5:1-4 (NKJV)
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.


James said - to break one is break them all - no matter that you consider some not to deal with love ... or not.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

 

[PROPHECYKID]

How can you take a passage and make it mean the exact opposite of what is plainly written in the text?

6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;

9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
(Not like the Sinai covenant.)

On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;

For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
(They broke the Sinai covenant.)

10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(You left out this verse which says the Sinai covenant has become obsolete.)

Bob Ryan said...
"Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew"

A complete exegesis requires that we not leave out the verses that disprove our doctrine.

.

So there was something or things wrong with the first covenant. Based on the book of hebrews, can you share what the bible states was wrong with the first covenant?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

So may argue that all that was before the cross - so pay no attention to that part of "scripture" -- it is not for Christians. Yet "Chrisitan" means - follower of Christ and Christ is speaking both in John 14 - and in Exodus 20.



But not according to Jesus in John's Gospel.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

And of course God the Father gave Jesus the ministry of "Savior" to the world such that Jesus prayed "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me - nevertheless not my will - but Thy will be done"

John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.

John said - we should do as Jesus did.
1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

==================================================
Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.


Do you view Jesus as opposed to the Father or the two and the Holy Spirit are "ONE God" in your/our monotheistic religion?

Based upon your OP, may I ask you why you steadfastly refuse to acknowledge, much less keep, all of God's commandments?

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Obviously the text says that Jesus is the one speaking that Covenant at Sinai - it is "His Word" -- His Commandments according to the text of the NT - Jesus is the one giving them.

How can you take a passage and make it mean the exact opposite of what is plainly written in the text?

If you had been able to refute the statement above - to show that someone else gave those commandments - you would have at least attempted to do so. But in your post you made no attempt to prove such a case.

As was noted in the thread on the covenants - the Law is the same - the moral law of Romans 3 and Galatians 3 - remains, it defines sin - in both OT to NT - but the covenants are not the same.

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

In the New Covenant "The one Gospel" - that LAW is written on the mind and heart.

Bob Ryan said...
"Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew"

Because Jeremiah is the one writing Jer 31:31-33 ... obviously.

And though the covenants are different the moral law that defines sin - is the same.

"written on tablets of stone" vs "written on tablets of the human heart" 2Cor 3.

 

[BobRyan]

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" -- in both OT and NT.

The LAW defines what sin IS even in Rom 3 - AFTER the cross.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

And also in Galatians 3.

Gal 3
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. .


It is the SAME Law that defines sin - but in the New Covenant it is "written on tablets of the human heart" ... it is "written on the mind and heart" Jer 31:31-33.... Heb 8:6-10

Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

While it is external and merely on stone - it is in the context of the Old Covenant "obey and live" and "cursed is everyone who does not keep it" Gal 3

But under the NEW Covenant it is internal - written on the "mind and heart".

resulting in 1 John 5

1 John 5:1-4 (NKJV)
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

and in Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BABerean2]

So there was something or things wrong with the first covenant. Based on the book of hebrews, can you share what the bible states was wrong with the first covenant?[/QUOTE]






Click to expand...

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Heb 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Obviously the text says that Jesus is the one speaking that Covenant at Sinai - it is "His Word" -- His Commandments according to the text of the NT - Jesus is the one giving them.



If you had been able to refute the statement above - to show that someone else gave those commandments - you would have at least attempted to do so. But in your post you made no attempt to prove such a case.

As was noted in the thread on the covenants - the Law is the same - the moral law of Romans 3 and Galatians 3 - remains, it defines sin - in both OT to NT - but the covenants are not the same.

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

In the New Covenant "The one Gospel" - that LAW is written on the mind and heart.




Because Jeremiah is the one writing Jer 31:31-33 ... obviously.

And though the covenants are different the moral law that defines sin - is the same.

"written on tablets of stone" vs "written on tablets of the human heart" 2Cor 3.

If Jesus gave us the Ten Commandments, who gave us the other 603 Commandments?

 

[BobRyan]

Based upon your OP, may I ask you why you steadfastly refuse to acknowledge, much less keep, all of God's commandments?

In Protestantism one of the key elements is "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and practice - and not so much focus on simply "ad hominem" to make a point. As I am sure we would all agree.

But the Bible describes an opposing model in Rev 12 to the "sola scriptura" testing model.

Rev 12
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

I think we are all familiar with that system.

In fact we see it as well in Rev 13

Rev 13
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them.


Rev 3
11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

So then how is that "Sola Scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition stated in the Bible?

Well we find one example of "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Doesn't this text show that if you have love for your neighbour you will keep all of the commandments of God that show love for your neighbor? So trying to separate the commandments of God and the commandments of Jesus is silly because it all boils down to love.

Very good point - Both Rom 13 and 1 John 5:1-4 draw a sharp line pointing to the fact that Love for God is manifest in keeping God's Commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

If Jesus gave us the Ten Commandments, who gave us the other 603 Commandments?

All scripture is given by inspiration from God - 2 Tim 3:16

1050 Commandments in the NT and the 600+ in the OT - all given to us by God.