If Women Can’t Speak, They Can’t Sing Either

[Dale]

I Corinthians 14:34, or 14:33-35, in context, is often taken to mean that women cannot preach because they must remain silent in church. I have argued in the past that this is a hasty conclusion, as can be seen by looking at the context. Here is something else. The Greek word translated as “speak” can also mean “sing.” The word covers all words that come out of the mouth.

The church I grew up in did not allow women pastors but women did make announcements and they did sing in the choir, in musical programs, and in the congregation. Women also taught Sunday School. In the church I attend today, it is much the same. The church would not accept a female pastor but women make announcements, and they sing on stage and in the congregation. They also read or recite scripture.

What does the Greek word used for “speak” mean, in the New Testament?

Word: laleo : to speak, to talk, to utter

Strong's 1696:
To speak, declare, converse, command, promise, warn, threaten, sing

Strong's Greek: 2980. λαλέω (laleó) -- To speak, to talk, to utter

For reference:

For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the
congregations of the saints,
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not
allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
If they want to enquire about something, they should ask
their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
I Corinthians 14:33-35 NIV

 

[johansen]

Its easier to just admit that paul was talking about a specific woman, the same woman he spoke of elsewhere.

It was a very unique place where a weird cult was going on that believed women to be spiritually and intellectually greater than men.

 

[JSRG]

I Corinthians 14:34, or 14:33-35, in context, is often taken to mean that women cannot preach because they must remain silent in church. I have argued in the past that this is a hasty conclusion, as can be seen by looking at the context. Here is something else. The Greek word translated as “speak” can also mean “sing.” The word covers all words that come out of the mouth.

The church I grew up in did not allow women pastors but women did make announcements and they did sing in the choir, in musical programs, and in the congregation. Women also taught Sunday School. In the church I attend today, it is much the same. The church would not accept a female pastor but women make announcements, and they sing on stage and in the congregation. They also read or recite scripture.

What does the Greek word used for “speak” mean, in the New Testament?

Word: laleo : to speak, to talk, to utter

Strong's 1696:
To speak, declare, converse, command, promise, warn, threaten, sing

Strong's Greek: 2980. λαλέω (laleó) -- To speak, to talk, to utter

Look at the context of where the word "sing" is used on that page, with some emphases added:

Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: - דָּבַר (dabar) - Strong's Hebrew 1696: To speak, declare, converse, command, promise, warn, threaten, sing
- אָמַר (amar) - Strong's Hebrew 559: To say, speak, utter

This is saying that the Hebrew words dabar and amar are the corresponding Hebrew words for this Greek word, and that dabar (the Hebrew word) can have the meaning of sing. Thus this "to speak, declare, converse, command, promise, warn, threaten, sing" is talking about a Hebrew word, not the Greek word in question. In plenty of cases, a word in one language matches the general meaning of a word in another, but has some meanings the other doesn't. For example, the corresponding Spanish word for the English verb "to count" is contar, but contar has a meaning that count does not in English: It can be used to mean to tell or narrate. Just like how the English word "count" does not mean to tell or narrate in English just because its Spanish equivalent has that meaning, the fact "dabar" in Hebrew can mean sing does not mean that the Greek word "laleo" has that meaning.

So the page you refer to doesn't say, for the Greek word, anything about singing. Looking up the Greek word (λαλέω) in the Liddell Scott Jones, I see no mention of singing at all, though it apparently can be used in regards to musical instruments. So I don't see any indication that this Greek word had any meaning of "sing."

 

[ForeignNational]

Look, either you believe the word of God and will follow his instruction, or you don't. It's all spelled out in 1 Timothy and among other texts.
If you don't like it, go on ahead and believe what you want. But be prepared to hear, "I did not know you".
Jesus was kind, not nice. There's a difference and when you know the difference, you'll begin to understand a lot of these things.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I Corinthians 14:34, or 14:33-35, in context, is often taken to mean that women cannot preach because they must remain silent in church. I have argued in the past that this is a hasty conclusion, as can be seen by looking at the context. Here is something else. The Greek word translated as “speak” can also mean “sing.” The word covers all words that come out of the mouth.

The church I grew up in did not allow women pastors but women did make announcements and they did sing in the choir, in musical programs, and in the congregation. Women also taught Sunday School. In the church I attend today, it is much the same. The church would not accept a female pastor but women make announcements, and they sing on stage and in the congregation. They also read or recite scripture.

What does the Greek word used for “speak” mean, in the New Testament?

Word: laleo : to speak, to talk, to utter

Strong's 1696:
To speak, declare, converse, command, promise, warn, threaten, sing

Strong's Greek: 2980. λαλέω (laleó) -- To speak, to talk, to utter

For reference:

For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the
congregations of the saints,
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not
allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
If they want to enquire about something, they should ask
their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
I Corinthians 14:33-35 NIV

And who delivered the most vital and important message given to a group of holy men?

John 20:18: "Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what he had said to her."

Too much emphasis is put on silencing women. Jesus Christ of Nazareth had another idea.

Blessings

 

[ForeignNational]

And who delivered the most vital and important message given to a group of holy men?

John 20:18: "Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what he had said to her."

Too much emphasis is put on silencing women. Jesus Christ of Nazareth had another idea.

Blessings

This is what leads to apostasy in the church. Quit believing in feminism.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

This is what leads to apostasy in the church. Quit believing in feminism.

Please define feminism as I am sure it most likely does not agree with scripture.

 

[Dale]

This is what leads to apostasy in the church. Quit believing in feminism.

I don't believe in feminism. I must say that the church hasn't always treated women fairly.

 

[BobRyan]

I Corinthians 14:34, or 14:33-35, in context, is often taken to mean that women cannot preach because they must remain silent in church. I have argued in the past that this is a hasty conclusion, as can be seen by looking at the context. Here is something else. The Greek word translated as “speak” can also mean “sing.” The word covers all words that come out of the mouth.

The church I grew up in did not allow women pastors but women did make announcements and they did sing in the choir, in musical programs, and in the congregation. Women also taught Sunday School. In the church I attend today, it is much the same. The church would not accept a female pastor but women make announcements, and they sing on stage and in the congregation. They also read or recite scripture.

What does the Greek word used for “speak” mean, in the New Testament?

Word: laleo : to speak, to talk, to utter

Strong's 1696:
To speak, declare, converse, command, promise, warn, threaten, sing

Strong's Greek: 2980. λαλέω (laleó) -- To speak, to talk, to utter

For reference:

For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the
congregations of the saints,
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not
allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
If they want to enquire about something, they should ask
their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
I Corinthians 14:33-35 NIV

yep.

So them people are taking 1 Cor 14 out of context - since it says that "when you come together EACH ONE has a revelation, EACH ONE has a tongue, a teaching ...". Not "Just the men"

 

[Lost Witness]

Paul might have been the one who wrote it but it was the spirit of God that authored it..
So it's unlikely it was directed towards "one woman" just my thoughts

 

[Strong in Him]

Look, either you believe the word of God and will follow his instruction, or you don't.

Or, you respect the word of God enough to read it in its context, try to understand what the author meant when he wrote those words and don't assume that everything in it applies to us today in the 21st century.

If you don't like it, go on ahead and believe what you want. But be prepared to hear, "I did not know you".

Nonsense.
The gender of the clergy and whether or not women preach/speak in church is not Christian doctrine or the Gospel.

Jesus was kind,

Yes, he was.
He allowed women to follow him, to learn from him (they were not allowed to) and to speak for him.
He healed women and their children. He saved a woman from being stoned - how likely is it that they would have kept quiet about these things?
He told the woman at the well that he was the Messiah, John 4, and allowed her to go back to her town to tell the men.
Women were not allowed in a court of law because they were said to be unreliable witnesses - yet he chose a woman to be the first witness to the resurrection.
Jesus was not hypocritical.

 

[Strong in Him]

This is what leads to apostasy in the church.

No, it doesn't.
You didn't answer the point made - Mary Magdalene was the first to see the risen Christ and went and told others.

 

[The Liturgist]

Now sadly we see many Anglican churches abolishing their Boys Choirs or replacing them with coed choirs, because of the absurd idea that they somehow are a threat to the ministry of women.

 

[The Liturgist]

I must say that the church hasn't always treated women fairly.

I can’t speak for Protestantism or the RCC, but the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Assyrian Church of the East have always treated women fairly. It is what differentiates them from the Muslims who are trying to exterminate them. Indeed, it is likely one of the reasons why the Muslims are trying to exterminate them, since in Islam polygamy and in some sects, even the marriage to older men of nine year old girls, are accepted practices (the latter recently being legalized in Iraq in the case of Shi’a Islam, and also believed to be the case in certain Sunni countries).

Anyone who visits a church of Copts, Antiochians, Syriac-speaking Christians, and other Levantine Christians of the three Eastern church families, will be amazed and astonished by how beautifully the women are attired, how courteously they are treated by the men, and by their intense love for the Church, to the extent that they engage in joyful ululation on certain occasions like the ordination even of minor clergy or the arrival of a bishop.

 

[Dan Perez]

I Corinthians 14:34, or 14:33-35, in context, is often taken to mean that women cannot preach because they must remain silent in church. I have argued in the past that this is a hasty conclusion, as can be seen by looking at the context. Here is something else. The Greek word translated as “speak” can also mean “sing.” The word covers all words that come out of the mouth.

The church I grew up in did not allow women pastors but women did make announcements and they did sing in the choir, in musical programs, and in the congregation. Women also taught Sunday School. In the church I attend today, it is much the same. The church would not accept a female pastor but women make announcements, and they sing on stage and in the congregation. They also read or recite scripture.

What does the Greek word used for “speak” mean, in the New Testament?

Word: laleo : to speak, to talk, to utter

Strong's 1696:
To speak, declare, converse, command, promise, warn, threaten, sing

Strong's Greek: 2980. λαλέω (laleó) -- To speak, to talk, to utter

For reference:

For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the
congregations of the saints,
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not
allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
If they want to enquire about something, they should ask
their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
I Corinthians 14:33-35 NIV

 

[Dan Perez]

The Greek word TO SPEAK // LALEO , is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and in the Greek ACTIVE VOICE as the subject producing the ACION , and it the SPIRIT TALKING HERE .

The word SPEAK is used 244 , SAY used 15 times , TELL used 15 , PREACH used 6 times , miscellaneous 3 times

and as the LAW also says // in the NOMINATIVE CASE and in the SINGULAR .

And I have only seen one woman preacher still on TV and she is GOOD and can speak HEBREW and GREEK and also

write both .

dan p

 

[timewerx]

Its easier to just admit that paul was talking about a specific woman, the same woman he spoke of elsewhere.

It was a very unique place where a weird cult was going on that believed women to be spiritually and intellectually greater than men.

Whether you're serious or joking, there's a grain of truth in what you said there.

Let us remember the things Paul said in these verses - 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.

Those very words is a clear reminder of the cultural and/or period-specific context of Paul's teachings as well as the teachings of his disciples.

Jesus kinda broke the taboo of the day when it comes to women and on one occasion, humiliated His male disciples against the wisdom of one female disciple. Jesus explaining her wisdom to men.

Essentially elevating her (Mary's) wisdom above the short-sighted wisdom of His male disciples. Isn't that something?

Someone might argue, it was still Jesus (a man) explaining a woman's wisdom to men.

Ironically, what if a preacher had his entire sermon put together by his wife? Ridiculous isn't it? No? A man repeating a woman's wisdom makes it right? Or if a woman's wisdom is right, it's right regardless of who talks about it. Man or woman.

 

[ARBITER01]

Oh look,.....

1Co 14:31 For ye all can prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted;
1Co 14:32 and the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets;
1Co 14:33 for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace; as in all the churches of the saints.

1Co 14:36 What? was it from you that the word of God went forth? or came it unto you alone?
1Co 14:37 If any man thinketh himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him take knowledge of the things which I write unto you, that they are the commandment of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 But if any man is ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1Co 14:39 Wherefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1Co 14:40 But let all things be done decently and in order.

When the contested verses are taken out,..... the subject remains the same,.....interesting!