If All Good Things Come From God, Where Do Bad Things Come From?

[Razare]

Huh?

It's a great deal of Bible study.

First you go to Job, where you see satan in heaven speaking to God. Satan should have absolutely no place to do this after his fall. He gained that position through taking what was given to Adam.

In heaven, there is a spiritual temple, a template of the temple that we had on Earth.

11 So Christ has now become the High Priest over all the good things that have come. He has entered that greater, more perfect Tabernacle in heaven, which was not made by human hands and is not part of this created world. - Hebrews 9

There is a tabernacle in heaven where Christ offered his blood. The blood of Christ is offered to atone for sin. Christ offered his blood in heaven at the more perfect tabernacle to atone for sin in heaven. That place of sin in heaven is what allowed satan to be at God's throne room in Job. Christ by sprinkling that blood there, removed satan's place from within heaven.

The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out. - John 12:31 (Specifically referring to our hearts, but part of doing this atonement in the heart of man, involved the tabernacle in heaven as well.)

Now that place of sin would never be permitted by God. God does not encourage sin nor promote it. God is against sin.

Therefore, it was Adam's transgression which wrought the sin in heaven's tabernacle. It was certainly Adam's sin because Christ atoned for the sin, and Christ is the last Adam. Christ fixed what Adam had broke. Christ fixed the more perfect tabernacle, therefore, Adam had broken it.

 

[98cwitr]

I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things. (Isaiah 45:7)

In the day of prosperity be joyful, and in the day of adversity consider: God has made the one as well as the other, so that man may not find out anything that will be after him. (Ecclesiastes 7:14)

To add

Job 2

9 His wife said to him, “Are you still maintaining your integrity? Curse God and die!”

10 He replied, “You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?”

 

[ToBeLoved]

First you go to Job, where you see satan in heaven speaking to God. Satan should have absolutely no place to do this after his fall. He gained that position through taking what was given to Adam.

Why would this be? Did not God cast Satan out of heaven and to the earth? God calls satan and sin the god of this world, this is why this earth is not our home. We are under different ownership

 

[ToBeLoved]

In heaven, there is a spiritual temple, a template of the temple that we had on Earth.

11 So Christ has now become the High Priest over all the good things that have come. He has entered that greater, more perfect Tabernacle in heaven, which was not made by human hands and is not part of this created world. - Hebrews 9

There is a tabernacle in heaven where Christ offered his blood. The blood of Christ is offered to atone for sin. Christ offered his blood in heaven at the more perfect tabernacle to atone for sin in heaven. That place of sin in heaven is what allowed satan to be at God's throne room in Job. Christ by sprinkling that blood there, removed satan's place from within heaven.

This is a very odd teaching. You got all that from this verse? So you think there is sin and evil in heaven?

 

[ToBeLoved]

There is a tabernacle in heaven where Christ offered his blood. The blood of Christ is offered to atone for sin. Christ offered his blood in heaven at the more perfect tabernacle to atone for sin in heaven. That place of sin in heaven is what allowed satan to be at God's throne room in Job. Christ by sprinkling that blood there, removed satan's place from within heaven.

Satan was kicked out of heaven way before that. Satan had to ask the Lord before he could do those things to Job.

Jesus doesn't have to do anything in heaven to kick satan out.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out. - John 12:31 (Specifically referring to our hearts, but part of doing this atonement in the heart of man, involved the tabernacle in heaven as well.)

Now that place of sin would never be permitted by God. God does not encourage sin nor promote it. God is against sin.

Therefore, it was Adam's transgression which wrought the sin in heaven's tabernacle. It was certainly Adam's sin because Christ atoned for the sin, and Christ is the last Adam. Christ fixed what Adam had broke. Christ fixed the more perfect tabernacle, therefore, Adam had broken it.

This is all very odd. You must have a lot of verses to support all this. Please share.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

First you go to Job, where you see satan in heaven speaking to God. Satan should have absolutely no place to do this after his fall. He gained that position through taking what was given to Adam.

You make an assumption; scripture does not state Satan went to heaven to speak to the Lord. It says the Accuser presented himself to the Lord.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God[angels] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.

You assume that since God the Father is in heaven; that there is only one "heaven" where God and his angels are. Look to Ephesians to see that there are multiple heavenly places; that there exists a "heavenly" place where Satan leads his angels in battle with God and his angels. This battle of spiritual forces has physical earthly consequences.

Ephesians 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

Look to Joshua to see that the Son of God commands the Lord's army[angels] against Satan and his.

Joshua 5:14 “Neither,” he replied, “but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, “What message does my Lord have for his servant?”

So while we know Satan was cast out of heaven, there still continues a battle/interaction between God and Satan. Revelation teaches that Satan does have authority in this world, but it is limited by God. Job, Ephesians and Revelation show glimpses of this interaction where Satan is limited/allowed to only do so much damage to us.

Further, God the Father's holiness prevents even us from seeing him and living in this present state. How could this holiness allow anything impure in his presences, us or Satan? It is for this reason that we have a mediator in the Son of God. We look forward to the next age where heaven and earth will merge, us with God, with nothing impure.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Rain also falls on the crops of the wicked.
A certain amount of providence is necessary for civilisation.

Our GOD is a just and righteous Judge.

Matthew 5:
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.
He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Luke 9:62
But Jesus said to him, "No one having put his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."
1 Corinthians 9:10
Or does He say [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written:
'that he who plows should plow in hope,
and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope.'


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[Tree of Life]

From James 1, it would appear that anything good that happens to us is attributed to God. What about the bad? If the 'bad' comes directly from God, the question is why? I do not think the explanations of chastisement/punishment or personal growth are sufficient. If it does not come from God, then where does it come from? Why would God send the 'good' but not prevent the 'bad'?

Thanks for any response.

I haven't seen it put better than the Heidelberg Catechism so I will quote them on this matter:

Lord’s Day 10
Q & A 27
Q. What do you understand
by the providence of God?

A. The almighty and ever present power of God1
by which God upholds, as with his hand,

heaven
and earth
and all creatures,2​

and so rules them that

leaf and blade,
rain and drought,
fruitful and lean years,
food and drink,
health and sickness,
prosperity and poverty—3
all things, in fact,​

come to us

not by chance4
but by his fatherly hand.5​

1 Jer. 23:23-24; Acts 17:24-28
2 Heb. 1:3
3 Jer. 5:24; Acts 14:15-17/a>; John 9:3; Prov. 22:2
4 Prov. 16:33
5 Matt. 10:29

Q & A 28
Q. How does the knowledge
of God’s creation and providence help us?

A. We can be patient when things go against us,1

thankful when things go well,2
and for the future we can have
good confidence in our faithful God and Father
that nothing in creation will separate us from his love.3
For all creatures are so completely in God’s hand

that without his will
they can neither move nor be moved.4

1 Job 1:21-22; James 1:3
2 Deut. 8:10; 1 Thess. 5:18
3 Ps. 55:22; Rom. 5:3-5; 8:38-39
4 Job 1:12; 2:6; Prov. 21:1; Acts 17:24-28

 

[Greg J.]

Regarding the original post, where does Good come from? If it is from God, then why does God choose to do Good? It is because He is Good. Another way of saying that is that God's nature is Good. He has always had that same nature.

If we can agree that God's nature has defined what is Good, can we not also agree that God's nature inherently defines what is contrary to what is Good?

But God acts out of his nature, not out of what is contrary to his nature. But evil and sin are labels given to forms of rejecting God (things consistent with what is contrary to God's nature). God has revealed free will in our creation in that light. While it is not correct to say that evil comes from God, it is correct to say that evil and what results from evil is defined by God's nature. I.e., the consequences of actions against God's nature are defined by God's nature.

 

[chess123mate]

Here is a more in depth answer that may better explain some things. The Bible describes God as holy...

You should credit your sources. You copy/pasted that from http://www.gotquestions.org/God-allow-evil.html
That said, I agree it's quite relevant =)

But why then does send only some unmerited good and not prevent any suffering?" and "The idea that [God] micromanages this world, is just something I am really struggling to hold onto.

I do not believe that God micromanaging the world is the only valid theory. I believe God does intervene, but not necessarily all the time. God has set up the laws of nature, and they act just well all on their own (which is why humans can use science to accomplish things). The passage in James can be interpreted as meaning "God designed good things, so when you receive something good, thank/praise God for it" instead of "God specifically gives you every individual good thing you receive". Further, as indicated by others in this thread, there is much we do not know about the spiritual realm and the war being fought there (my point being God could be quite active there). Further, God is not inactive in our world - ranging from miracles, emotional comfort (I have personally prayed for help in this area during particularly distressing times and received calmness), Biblical reminders/thoughts/nudges, and likely others I'm not as familiar with.

Indeed, you (and me) do not deserve these good things (for we have all sinned -- a rebellion against God is punishable by death), but God is withholding punishment until later. If He punished us immediately, we'd just all be dead, which evidently doesn't serve His goal for creation (seeing as we're still here ). In fact, Jesus talks about this concept in Matthew 13:24-43 (the Parable of the Weeds), which essentially suggests that removing all evil would also remove some of the good. (Indeed, if it were not so, what reason would God have for not removing the evil immediately?)

why would God 'soften' the heart of a fleeing husband, but not the heart of an Islamic extremists butchering those of other faiths

Free will is the major factor. Though I wholeheartedly disagree with EastCoastRemnant that God "cannot over rule men's free will", I do believe that God chooses not to (at least when it comes to whether the individual chooses to serve/follow God or not -- think of when God has hardened the hearts of some individuals, like the Egyptian Pharaoh in the Old Testament). If a person has chosen their path, it is pointless for God to force them in a completely different direction. I believe that article from gotquestions.org is quite relevant in explaining this.

I found one source (in my quest for the very information you are seeking) that gives an interesting theory. http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/natural_evil_theodicity.html
I thoroughly recommend reading the entire article yourself, but in case you are short on time, perhaps this quote might help: "The universe must operate through reliable physical laws, since it would be impossible for sentient creatures to make sense of a universe in which the physical laws were randomly applied. The Bible explicitly says that God fixed the laws that govern the universe." (they quote Job 38:33 and Jeremiah 31:35-36 in defense of this idea). They then suggest that getting rid of things like natural disasters would violate this (or one of the other 3 premises they suggest God had in mind when creating the universe and its laws). They demonstrate that many things, like earthquakes, could not be simply "removed" without creating greater evils!
Yes, God could theoretically intervene at every disaster (to prevent it), but that would violate the premise I quoted above. Further, letting people die does not violate God's goodness - that person is dead physically, but their soul is still intact. Physical death feels like a bad thing, but in reality I don't think it is all that bad - it's the spiritual situation which matters. God will judge people fairly, too, so if someone dies young because of a disaster (without knowing about God), less will be expected of him/her than someone who thoroughly knows about God's teachings and rejects them.


Have the posts in this thread satisfactorily answered your questions? (I see you mention that you're unsure how God could be loving - it would definitely be good to address any confusion in that matter! I can relate: not too long ago, I believed (though only for a day or so) that God definitely existed, but that He wasn't particularly good or loving! I encourage you to keep seeking answers - I believe God wants us to seek the truth, as this will lead us to Him... even if the journey takes a while.)

 

[mikpat]

The Ten Commandments + the The Beatitudes —————-man's free will and intellect —————pain/pleasure principle.

Evil and goodness are the result of those interactions.


BTW, since God is all GOOD nothing evil can proceed from God.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

From James 1, it would appear that anything good that happens to us is attributed to God. What about the bad? If the 'bad' comes directly from God, the question is why? I do not think the explanations of chastisement/punishment or personal growth are sufficient. If it does not come from God, then where does it come from? Why would God send the 'good' but not prevent the 'bad'?

Thanks for any response.

From Adam