I don't see any evidence for prophecy as a "motivational gift"

[Pavel Mosko]

Hi there, I guess I would start my first thread on the message board on a subject that has bugged me for decades. Back in my early days as a Charismatic I studied various teachings on Spiritual Gifts. Along the way I bought a book on them that taught that the gifts of Romans chapter 12 were "motivational gifts" (see the linked article as an example) and watched various teachers including Marilyn Hickey (probably the most prominent teacher of motivational gifts). While I can understand certain gifts like Mercy, Giving, Helps, Exhortation, fitting this view. I really do not see any shred of evidence that "prophecy" can be defined as applying the Bible to deal with sin or holiness. Every passage in the Bible, and every Lexical term that deals with it inGreek, Hebrew, and Aramaic that I've looked at only deals with a literal "Thus sayeth the Lord" proclamation, or maybe the person having a vision or dream from the Lord, or at least some kind of revelatory insight.

But from I can tell the teaching of "Motivational Gifts" is just reading stuff into scripture that is not clearly defined.(It probably fit the experience of a particular person or group of people but is not something that is actually taught by the Bible). I actually suspect this teaching that prophecy is a motivational gift got started years ago by a Cessionist church (like some Baptists) and was somehow brought into the Charismatic movement from such people becoming Pentecostal/Charismatic decades ago.

But I am open to dissenting points of view, or if you have another comment on the subject you are welcome to chime in.


example (Motivational gifts and prophecy as one)

http://iblp.org/questions/what-are-seven-motivational-gifts

 

[tturt]

"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." Each of the manifestations are from The Holy Spirit with the ultimate goal of Yahweh being glorified. (I Cor 12; 11:11).

Yeshua said:
-if you don't believe in me, believe the signs and wonders - then you'll get the connection "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." John 10:37-38
- "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him." John 8:29

Prophecy is the testimony of Yeshua (Rev 19:10).

Much encouragement, inspiration and motivation can be gained through the prophetic words that were -
- for everyone such as those that have been fulfilled (Isa 7:14, Mic 5:2);
-prophecy that was for a particular region such as the preparation that resulted from the famine prophecy in Acts 11; and
-personal prophecies such as when Paul reminded Timothy “This command I am entrusting to you, child Timothy, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, so that by them you might fight the good fight, (I Tim 1:18).

This isn’t comprehensive by any means but all the spiritual gifts (manifestations) work/function/operate through The Holy Spirit and are to glorify Yahweh with prophecy that exhorts, encourages, and comforts us (I Cor 14:3). Don’t know the definition or expectation of motivation utilized but considering the above, it's motivational to me.

 

[Ken Behrens]

I think it depends on what is prophesied. Someone who travels in the office of a prophet is sometimes to called to give corrective words. Also sometimes called to give encouraging words. Both of these are motivational.

 

[Biblicist]

But from I can tell the teaching of "Motivational Gifts" is just reading stuff into scripture that is not clearly defined.

Way back in 1994 I started to take a fresh look at First Corinthians particularly with chapter 12, where I probably shared many of the same frustrations as you have with regard to the various ways that the people have tried and explain Rom 12, 1 Cor 12 & Eph 4. My frustration reached to the level where I realised that if you were to place a group of hard core cessationists in the same room as a group of Pentecostals and charismatics, where they had to explain their views on the so called "spiritual gifts", that the outcome would be that their explanations may very well end up being much the same.

As for the descriptor "motivational gifts" for Rom 12 in particular, this is definately a contrived term that is of no value whatsoever where I grant that most who have tried to explain the content of the above chapters are probably just as confused as anyone else.

With regard to how Paul describes prophecy in 1Cor 12, where it is one of the 9 Manifestations of the Holy Spirit (1Cor 12:7-10) and also a Congregational Office/Function (1Cor 12:28), I suppose if we were to connect the two terms 'edification' and 'motivational' together then it could possibly be said that when the Holy Spirit speaks through an individual through prophecy, that as it edifies either an individual or the congregation that it could be deemed to be a source or means of motivation for the recipient.

What I did discover years back from the various commentaries and lexicons, was that Paul never actually employed the term 'spiritual gifts', where this point is always well addressed within the better commentaries, where even the best of the best scholarly writers will remain uncertain as to how Paul used the two Greek words charisma and pneumatikos. Over the centuries the various translators have tried to be helpful by translating two Greek words, being charisma and pnuematikos in a way that would help the average reader, but what they unwittingly done was to further confuse everyone in the process. To add to this problem, most of our English translations have even inserted 'spiritual gifts' into the text even when the Greek text had no corresponding word where they inserted the term - very , very confusing indeed!

If you can print 1Cor 12, 13 & 14 in your translation of choice and then compare the terms 'gift' and 'spiritual gift' with say a Greek Interlinear (link), then you should be able to gain a better understanding of the problems that the various Bible translators encounter when trying to faithfully translate a given Greek word into English while keeping the text both readible and familiar to the reader - not any easy task.

To summarise, when we look into how the Scriptures speak of what we often know to be the so called spiritual gifts, we need to be clear in our own minds with how our English translations may at times inadvertantly add to much undue colour to a given Biblical word.

 

[tdidymas]

It depends on what they mean by motivational. Every spiritual gift is a motivation for someone to believe, hope, or act accordingly. Therefore in my book "motivational" is redundant, so I don't use the word. The fruit (result) of a so-called spiritual gift shows whether it is from God or not.
TD

 

[talitha]

While I can understand certain gifts like Mercy, Giving, Helps, Exhortation, fitting this view. I really do not see any shred of evidence that "prophecy" can be defined as applying the Bible to deal with sin or holiness.

I agree with what you are saying about this part of the motivational-gifts teaching. Prophecy is, Biblically speaking, about unveiling, revealing things that were not known, often about the mind and character of God and sometimes about people's inner lives and about the future.

But from I can tell the teaching of "Motivational Gifts" is just reading stuff into scripture that is not clearly defined.(It probably fit the experience of a particular person or group of people but is not something that is actually taught by the Bible). I actually suspect this teaching that prophecy is a motivational gift got started years ago by a Cessionist church (like some Baptists) and was somehow brought into the Charismatic movement from such people becoming Pentecostal/Charismatic decades ago.

Again, I agree. I think people are not comfortable with a God who continues to speak today, so they write definitions that they are more comfortable with.

However, that said, I do believe that prophecy, like mercy and service, etc., is a motivational gift. A person with this motivational gift (sic - I know that the word 'motivational' is not exactly in the scripture there, but still) is driven to transcend the seen, experiential reality of unspiritual people and to reveal what he/she sees and experiences.

 

[Greg J.]

The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. (1 Corinthians 14:32, 1984 NIV)

Which means human error is potentially involved. However, prophecy is God speaking through someone, and God can say all kinds of things. However, under the New Covenant, if it is really God speaking, the prophecy will conform to:

But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. (1 Corinthians 14:3, 1984 NIV)

Each of these can be motivational for some people. I might even wonder if a prophecy was from God if it wasn't motivational.

 

[Yahu_]

example (Motivational gifts and prophecy as one)

What are the seven motivational gifts?

By my understanding the motivational gifts and spiritual gifts are two totally different things. I have a motivational gift of a teaching but the office of a prophet with spiritual gifts of discernment of spirits, word of knowledge as well as prophecy.

The spiritual gifts you manifest are used in your calling. For example you can't hold the office of prophet without both discernment of spirits and prophecy otherwise you can't test the source of the prophecy in yourself or in others. One of the roles of a prophet is to test other words by others to confirm the authority behind it.

A prophet often teaches but also stands against the false teachings of the enemy with the ability to sense the spirit behind many false teachings/teachers.

Here is an example. I exposed error in the doctrine and behavior of a pastor's daughter during a major conflict then a prophetic word came for her confirming my role as a prophet bringing correction. The result was not only her repentance but two churches changed their doctrinal position and both left their parent denomination as a direct result. It brought revival to her own father's fundamentalist church with the gifts of the spirit manifesting which got them all cast out of the Presbyterian denomination.

Another time I got invited to teach a coven of witches in the error of their doctrines and gave a prophetic word to them. The results of that visit both split the coven, ended up with the entire coven under police investigation, totally disrupted their community. The entire coven was convicted of their criminal activities then many of them repented and got saved because the prophetic word I gave them was coming true.

So you can have a motivational gift of teaching but have a calling into a spiritual office which requires a specific group of spiritual gifts to perform. Prophecy is NOT a motivational gift. It is a tool to perform a motivational gift.

 

[ARBITER01]

The gift of prophecy is one of the most abused gifts of the nine. Most people that receive it begin to think they always have a word for someone like a personal fortune teller.

Paul defined this gift in very specific terms,..

1Co 14:3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort.

 

[Yahu_]

The gift of prophecy is one of the most abused gifts of the nine. Most people that receive it begin to think they always have a word for someone like a personal fortune teller.

Paul defined this gift in very specific terms,..

1Co 14:3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort.

I agree that it is not like a personal fortune teller but it can also be a rebuke or contain one in my experience.

In Jeremiah, the role of a prophet also is to root up, pull down and destroy then build and plant. Warnings and judgments also come as prophetic words all over the OT.

Jer 1:9 Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.
10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.

I have been given prophetic words that gave warnings of consequences along with the comfort and exhortation for following or had rebukes of wrong doings.

Here is an example:

"My precious daughter," (Address)
"See them as I see them. See them filtered by the blood. See them for the Glory they can achieve."
"Weep! Weep for my lost children. Weep as I weep for them." (instructions in opposition of her actions)
"I didn't call you to be an accuser of your brethren." (rebuke of her problem)
"I called you to love one another and draw them to Me by your love." (exhortation)

The girl it was given for was attacking and spreading gossip against both believers and unbelievers about anything that didn't measure up to her standards of Phariseeism. She thought that her role as a pastor's daughter gave her right of punishment over others. She repented weeping.

 

[tturt]

Edification can mean to give instruction. Though it is to be done in lots of Yahweh's love.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I believe all gifts of the Spirit should point people to Jesus. Jesus is a great motivator. When I was a young Christian I had a lot of doubts and fears about life, I found that prophecy became a great motivator for me to believe for more, to have hope where there appeared to be none. Having this extra hope motivated me to follow Christ more fully. At times maybe prophecy could have given me self motivation, but eventually it bought me to a deeper knowledge of God's good plans for me, and pointed me to Christ.