Husband incapable of emotional intimacy...

[donnamabob]

I second that caution..there are good counselors and bad counselors..and there are good counselors but arent a good FIT for you as well..

I know what you mean, and that makes perfect sense.

With your husband if you can convince him to go ..its better to be prepared you may have to switch counselors..or at the very least..expect that it could take several sessions of more for him to feel comfortable talking..

One thing that shocked me..when we went ..I thought i would have to be told to be quiet and let him talk..I SWEAR my husband started like a motor running before his butt even hit the couch and he HOGGED LOL..the bulk of the sessions and i swear would say towards the end 'can i get the last word"???..THEN not surprising to ME he REQEUSTED that the counselor TELL me(though she never suggested its a routine or standard issue at all) that "we"(meaning I) not discuss AT ALL anything talked about in counseling at home..

IOW like UM teacher! teacher...um will YOU teel HER to shut up about all this when we are alone?

And Im telling you he said some things..like they were point of fact "statements" of truth ACCORDING to him that i completely DISAGREED WITH..fundamental stuff ..like "Im a simple guy.Im very easy to understand..SHES the 'complicated one"..

Im like (my mouth HANGING open in disbeleif he actually beleives that)..then Im supposed to not say a word about that unless its in the 45 mintues once a week session?...uh uh..no way...

anyway Im saying you might be surprised if he does open up..it coud be diareah of the mouth..and you may not like what you hear..

Dallas

Thanks for the heads up, I really have NO idea what to expect, so it's good that I go expecting anything!

 

[dallasapple]

It's not that he doesn't talk, he'll talk my ear off about any kind of surface subject, but the second the conversation goes below the surface, he shuts down entirely. He literally will not say a word. I've seen tears well up in his eyes, but a word will not leave his lips. He's terrified, and it was always this way with us, so I know that it wasn't something that I did to put him in that state. I see that his father is this way as well, so it's no surprise where he learned it. It took me awhile to even know for certain that he had feelings in there at all, and I've struggled with the idea that he may have a personality disorder. I don't believe that he does, but I have wondered.

See thats the point..nto ALL men are like you describe your husband..you already KNOW his "father " is that way so he LEARNED it..I gurantee his father LEARNED it form his father..or heck..even his mother thinkign thats how "men shoud behave" stuffing any "talk' abotu how you feel about something..the only one seemed acceptabel and "understandabel' for males to exibit by society is ANGER..So then isntead of ..'thats the emotion O.K for men to display"(which is the TRUTH) that turns into 'its only natural thats how men are born..

Its completely backwards..

And all this talk abotu "babies" and how different boys are?All I knwo is I have 3 boys adn one grandson..my grandson who is 4 isnt TOLD to stop crying like a girl..hes ALLOWED and encouraged to express his feelings..and Im telling you they are NO DIFFERENT as far as the range of emotions he feels that an FEMALE ..they are 'happy..sad..angry..humored..excited..grouchy ALL of them he expresses via his body language and verbally he SAYS "Im happy" or "Im sad" or he EMPATHISES and says "thats sad" or they are 'happy"when someone is hurt or laughing..etc...and hes ONLY 4..

No one can tel me that hes GAY..or that hes "actign liek a woman"..hes a PERSON with the SAME feelings as ALL people..we can SHAPE him right now if we attempted to SURPRESS much of his emotions but ANGER would eventually boil out of him from that surpression then we coud say "oh well..boys will be boys" so then hes AFFIRMED as a "male"..because God forbid he be just a person..gotta make sure no one thinks hes gay..

Dallas

 

[dallasapple]

LOL I'm not taking any credit for that one, there's no way I would have thought of that if the Holy Spirit didn't bring it to my remembrance!

Then I hereby recognize the presence of the HOLY Spirit moving through you !

Dallas

 

[donnamabob]

See thats the point..nto ALL men are like you describe your husband..you already KNOW his "father " is that way so he LEARNED it..I gurantee his father LEARNED it form his father..or heck..even his mother thinkign thats how "men shoud behave" stuffing any "talk' abotu how you feel about something..the only one seemed acceptabel and "understandabel' for males to exibit by society is ANGER..So then isntead of ..'thats the emotion O.K for men to display"(which is the TRUTH) that turns into 'its only natural thats how men are born..

Absolutely! I've seen my husband show anger actually. Not often, but it's the only emotion that I've seen him show. I even TOLD him what you wrote here at the time, and he agreed! At least he see's the truth in this.

Its completely backwards..

And all this talk abotu "babies" and how different boys are?All I knwo is I have 3 boys adn one grandson..my grandson who is 4 isnt TOLD to stop crying like a girl..hes ALLOWED and encouraged to express his feelings..and Im telling you they are NO DIFFERENT as far as the range of emotions he feels that an FEMALE ..they are 'happy..sad..angry..humored..excited..grouchy ALL of them he expresses via his body language and verbally he SAYS "Im happy" or "Im sad" or he EMPATHISES and says "thats sad" or they are 'happy"when someone is hurt or laughing..etc...and hes ONLY 4..

No one can tel me that hes GAY..or that hes "actign liek a woman"..hes a PERSON with the SAME feelings as ALL people..we can SHAPE him right now if we attempted to SURPRESS much of his emotions but ANGER would eventually boil out of him from that surpression then we coud say "oh well..boys will be boys" so then hes AFFIRMED as a "male"..because God forbid he be just a person..gotta make sure no one thinks hes gay..

Dallas

Yes! I totally totally totally totally agree! The bible gives us a clear idea of how to distinguish between the genders, and this is NOT it.

 

[mkgal1]

This is a good point, I too have seen situations where people would have been better off if they had not seen a counselor at all. My husband has a tendency to not say anything at all. He's terrified of opening up, terrified of peoples reactions, incredibly insecure in general. When he's pressured into a situation where he has to open up, he keeps it vague, but I've seen him try to twist situations to take the pressure off of him, and grab hold of any kind of excuse imaginable to justify his behavior, and keep from having to deal with it.

Okay....the beginning of what you said is completely "normal"....none of us will disclose things that we feel we will be judged for. Some people don't expect to be judged or criticized....and they will spill EVERYTHING to a complete stranger. Others feel they will be judged for ANYTHING (mostly because they *have* experienced loads of criticism in the past) so they remain silent about their thoughts.

BUT....twisting situations and justifying is a different animal.....that's manipulating and lying.....isn't it? When you say "to justify his behavior"....you don't mean his silence....right? (You don't have to disclose what that behavior is...I just wanted to make sure that being quiet isn't what you meant).

 

[mkgal1]

Oh....and I wanted to pass along some links for Chip Ingram's series on "How to Experience God's Dream for Your Marriage". It was aired on Mar 5th and 6th, so scroll down to those dates. (If you don't already have iTunes---you may need to install that).

How to Experience God’s Dream for Your Marriage | Keep Pressin' Ahead

 

[dallasapple]

It's not that he doesn't talk, he'll talk my ear off about any kind of surface subject, but the second the conversation goes below the surface, he shuts down entirely.

BINGO..hes HIDING 'himself"..because we arent "whats on sale at Kroger" ..we arent "I put a roast in at 3 woudl you check on it at 5 for me"..we are what we THINK and FEEL ..we are what are desires are and our beliefs are..which is beneath the surface..

Serial killers(NOT saying your husband is this..just provign a point) get away with it by appearing to be "helathy normal individuals" glidign aroudn in society talkign about the weather with everyone else..what underneath the surface is who he (or she) really is...which they eventaully cant surpress..and go out and find someone to kill..so they can FEEL and express that.....even temporarily..

Dallas

 

[JaneFW]

Here's an example of different wiring--- when my MIL passed away, he only cried briefly. A week later he started tearing out the drywall in her old room (she lived with us) and redid the insulation, wiring, installed new drywall & painted. Man, I was confused! I called my Mom, completely baffled by his behavior. She told me that when my Gram died, my Dad repainted every room in their house! My Dad is definitely not what I would call emotionally unavailable. They process their emotions differently than we do. They need to act, to distract themselves from the pain. Do I think it's weird? Yeah! Really weird! But as my wise old Gram used to say, "It is what it is.... they're MEN." I think we need to stop expecting them to think like we think and have the same emotions as women do. The only men I know that are wired like us are gay.

Not all men are emotionally frigid, just fyi. When my FIL had a quadrule heart bypass, and we were actually out of the country at the time, my h did cry, and went through the whole gamut of emotions. When we a few years later arrived to visit my sick mother and found that she had passed away while we travelled, he was heartsick and also broke down then. My husband is an emotional man who will talk a lot about his feelings and also .. not gay.

I don't believe it is gender driven, but more often a lot to do with upbringing, and with boys being allowed to cry when they are hurt, and not be told "boys don't cry" "don't be a cissy" "mommy's boy" etc. My husband's upbringing encouraged him to be a full human being, and not to be dictated to about when he is "allowed" to have feelings. As a consequence, he is able to relate emotionally and he has encouraged our boys to be the same way. So we have amazingly demonstrative kids, who are male all the way through, but at the same time have emotions that they are not afraid to express.

I hope that they willl continue to develop in that manner and will never become emotionally frigid.

 

[donnamabob]

BUT....twisting situations and justifying is a different animal.....that's manipulating and lying.....isn't it? When you say "to justify his behavior"....you don't mean his silence....right? (You don't have to disclose what that behavior is...I just wanted to make sure that being quiet isn't what you meant).

Here's an example - being that this is spilling over into our physical relationship, he's frustrated because I am either unresponsive to him, or lacking any strong desire. He naturally feels rejected, etc. However, instead of understanding the root of the issue and dealing with it, he responds by changing his behavior towards me the next morning. He won't do his regular chores, he acts angry, and gives me the "cold shoulder", like he's punishing me. If I confront this behavior, he shuts down and won't say a word. I guess that would fall into the category of manipulation, right? Even if he's not very good at it...

 

[JaneFW]

BINGO..hes HIDING 'himself"..because we arent "whats on sale at Kroger" ..we arent "I put a roast in at 3 woudl you check on it at 5 for me"..we are what we THINK and FEEL ..we are what are desires are and our beliefs are..which is beneath the surface..

Serial killers(NOT saying your husband is this..just provign a point) get away with it by appearing to be "helathy normal individuals" glidign aroudn in society talkign about the weather with everyone else..what underneath the surface is who he (or she) really is...which they eventaully cant surpress..and go out and find someone to kill..so they can FEEL and express that.....even temporarily..

Dallas

One of the signs of a sociopath is that they are callous and lack in empathy.

 

[donnamabob]

Not all men are emotionally frigid, just fyi. When my FIL had a quadrule heart bypass, and we were actually out of the country at the time, my h did cry, and went through the whole gamut of emotions. When we a few years later arrived to visit my sick mother and found that she had passed away while we travelled, he was heartsick and also broke down then. My husband is an emotional man who will talk a lot about his feelings and also .. not gay.

I don't believe it is gender driven, but more often a lot to do with upbringing, and with boys being allowed to cry when they are hurt, and not be told "boys don't cry" "don't be a cissy" "mommy's boy" etc. My husband's upbringing encouraged him to be a full human being, and not to be dictated to about when he is "allowed" to have feelings. As a consequence, he is able to relate emotionally and he has encouraged our boys to be the same way. So we have amazingly demonstrative kids, who are male all the way through, but at the same time have emotions that they are not afraid to express.

I hope that they willl continue to develop in that manner and will never become emotionally frigid.

Thanks, that's helpful to read! I can't say that I've met too many emotionally healthy men like what you've described here (if any), I'm not even sure where I got the idea that a man like this can exist! I just know it from within the depths of myself...I guess it must be the Lord. Thanks for the HOPE

 

[donnamabob]

One of the signs of a sociopath is that they are callous and lack in empathy.

Yeah, I know that he's not a sociopath, and I know that no one was trying to suggest that...but It's important to address that when dealing with a man that IS actually void of emotion. I'll be honest, I really had to take a good hard look at my husband to figure out if he has any emotion or not, but he does, he has plenty of it...somewhere.

 

[mkgal1]

Here's an example - being that this is spilling over into our physical relationship, he's frustrated because I am either unresponsive to him, or lacking any strong desire. He naturally feels rejected, etc. However, instead of understanding the root of the issue and dealing with it, he responds by changing his behavior towards me the next morning. He won't do his regular chores, he acts angry, and gives me the "cold shoulder", like he's punishing me. If I confront this behavior, he shuts down and won't say a word. I guess that would fall into the category of manipulation, right? Even if he's not very good at it...

Yes......I think it falls right into that category. Passive/aggressive manipulation, to be specific.

You may get a lot of insight from this book (take a peek at the reviews, and see if you can relate):

 

[JaneFW]

Yeah, I know that he's not a sociopath, and I know that no one was trying to suggest that...but It's important to address that when dealing with a man that IS actually void of emotion. I'll be honest, I really had to take a good hard look at my husband to figure out if he has any emotion or not, but he does, he has plenty of it...somewhere.

Sorry, I didn't mean to indicate he was .. I was just following on from something that Dallas said.

So was he always like this? When you were dating, and before you were married? Or is it recent?

 

[dallasapple]

Here's an example - being that this is spilling over into our physical relationship, he's frustrated because I am either unresponsive to him, or lacking any strong desire. He naturally feels rejected, etc. However, instead of understanding the root of the issue and dealing with it, he responds by changing his behavior towards me the next morning. He won't do his regular chores, he acts angry, and gives me the "cold shoulder", like he's punishing me. If I confront this behavior, he shuts down and won't say a word. I guess that would fall into the category of manipulation, right? Even if he's not very good at it...

Try being direct..including telling him pouting.."acting angry" and giving you the "cold shoulder' isnt going to change or help the situation only make it worse..Write him an email..that way you can word things the way you want and he can read it and not have to respond right away..

Tell him the truth..HOW YOU FEEL about me being disenterested in sex is how I ALREADY feel from our lack of non sexual relations before you even try and touch me.REJECTED and shut out...I can NOT turn off and on like a light switch..its NOT there for me to give OR withold its ABSENT due to again the lack of bonding in every other area BESIDES sex..Hes asking you to CREATE like magic a bond between you on your OWN that you can then express through sex and thats not possible..you cant bond with the air..and its unhelathy to live in a fantasy..which is the only other way for you to do it..like an "actress" a sex worker..dissassociating from reality to get through it...

I would tell him you can WASTE your energy if you want being angry and IGNORING what Im telling you if you please thats up to you ..but I will not be harranged and hassled and coerced and bullied into having sex with you.So give it up..in the meantime Im OPEN to working on this with you but I can not do it alone..and I will NOT thrive in the bedroom until the outside of the bedroom the other NINETY NINE % of the time spent together is adressed..thats a fact..deal with it..LET me know what you think..because I WANT a healthy vibrant sex life TOO..Im telling YOU what I need from you to create then nurture that atmosphere..But dont expect me to GIVE whats NOT THERE in the meantime..and kicking and screaming wont endear me to you at all..just dig the deeper hole..

Dallas

 

[dallasapple]

The ony reasn I brought up sociopathy..is they 'manage" to "blend in " many times..by beign able to hold "surface level" conversations like you describe..teh poit is UNDERNEATH is the REAL person..they keep that hidden by talkign PLENTY about light stuff..surface stuff...so you never KNOW who they really are..

Dallas

 

[mkgal1]

Try being direct..includign tellign him pouting.."acting angry" and giving you the "cold shoulder' isnt going to change or help the istuation only make it worse..Write him an email..that way you can word thigns the wa you want and he can read it and not have ot respond right away..

Tell him the truth..HOW YOU FEEL about me beign disenterested in sex is how I ALREADY feel from our lack of non sexual relations before you even try and touch me.REJECTED and shut out...I can NOT turn off and on like a light switch..its NOT there for me to give OR withold its ABSENT due to again the lack of bonding in every other area BESIDES sex..Hes askign you to CREATE like magic a bond between you on your OWN that you can then express through sex and thats not possible..you cant bond with the air..and its unhelathy to live in a fantasy..which is the only other way for you to do it..liek an "actress" a sex worker..dissassociating from reality to get through it...

I would tell him you can WASTE your energy if you want beign angry and IGNORING what Im tellign you if you please thats up to you ..but I will not be harranged and hassled and coerced and bullied into having sex with you.So give it up..in the meantime Im OPEN to working on this with you but I can not do it alone..and I will NOT thrive in the bedroom until the outside of the bedroom the other NINETY NINE % of the time spent together is adressed..thats a fact..deal with it..LET me know what you think..because I WANT a healthy vibrant sex life TOO..Im telling YOU what I need from you to create then nurture that atmosphere..But dont expect me to GIVE whats NOT THERE in the meantime..and kicking and screaming wont endear me to you at all..just dig the deeper hole..

Dallas

Excellent advice, Dallas. Every bit of it.

 

[donnamabob]

Sorry, I didn't mean to indicate he was .. I was just following on from something that Dallas said.

So was he always like this? When you were dating, and before you were married? Or is it recent?

Oh, I know, I figured I'd just throw it out there.

When I met him 5 years ago, he was like this. He's told me that he always felt very comfortable around me, so I assume that he's even worse with other people. He's extremely awkward in public, and I suspect that this is all rooted in some kind of huge insecurity and fear.

 

[pgp_protector]

Hi there. My husband and I have been married for a year and a half now, and it's starting to become clear that he is not capable of giving me the emotional intimacy that I need.

Did you know about this BEFORE you married him, or did he change after the wedding?

We've talked about this so many times that I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. I purchased a book for him which explained in great detail what it is that women need from their husbands and why. He read the entire thing and claims to have understood it. Every time I bring it up, he musters up some of what I need, just enough to "fix" me, and then goes back to normal. Which only proves even further that he does understand what I'm talking about.

So he did make the effort, read the book but his way of dealing with emotional intimacy and the books solution aren't the same, some men don't handle vague generalities well. If you say i feel X they'll ignore it because X is a feeling and nothing but you can control how you handle some feelings.

From what I can tell, his father was the exact same way, if not worse. We've talked about this as well, he agreed, and it didn't change anything.

So it may be genetic / how they were raised for most of their life.
Let's assume it's just how they were raised for 18+ years. Through most of their brain development, how quickly do you expect this to change, Overnight, in a month, or over multiple years?

He is the same way in all of his relationships, completely unable to open up emotionally or share any part of himself. He has no close friendships, probably never has.

And that's not really a problem, lots of Men don't have close friendships or share themselves emotionally.

Naturally, this is starting to spill over into our physical relationship. I do my best to do what the bible tells me to do as a wife in that department, but there is no desire. My husband knows this, and again, we've talked about why, but it seems he's willing to settle for less than the best if it means he can avoid emotional intimacy.

I really don't know what to do any more. I don't want to spend the rest of our marriage in a cycle of learning to forgive him, and learning not to sin out of my anger, and learning to not resent him, etc. I try so hard to remind myself that "It's not all about me" - but in this case, I know that if it's somewhat about me, he will be much better off as well.

Bit early (only 18 Months married) to be writing it all off though.
I've been with my wife 20+ years and we're still learning each other.

I'm just so frustrated, and we're about to go around the "talk about how I feel, he pretends to do something about it, I feel better, he shuts down again" cycle for the 3rd time this month! Everything in me wants to put up a wall and just completely shut him out so that I can stop experiencing the pain that this is causing me, but I know that will only hurt the situation more.

Does anyone have any advice at all? Thank you...

Realize that he may not be an emotional person.

 

[Johnnz]

This is a huge area of concern for many women. There are no simplistic answers though. Our highly individualistic lifestyle seldom neither challenges nor supports men learning about greater self awareness and emotional intimacy. There are conversations many people need to engage in, but few places or people where than can even begin.

John
NZ