How Does Satan Attack Us?

[Buck72]

I'd like to open a topic about the strategy, reason, manner, and means that Satan uses to attack believers.

 

[Shekinahs]

I'd like to open a topic about the strategy, reason, manner, and means that Satan uses to attack believers.

Blessings,

The Nemisis starts with the heart. When anger, jealousy, creed and other sinsiter emotions control our hearts then they will control our thoughts and when humans have sinister thoughts people do evil deeds. It's not very complicated really. Keeping our hearts pure of evil emotions gets to the core of keeping the evil one from controlling our lives.

~ShekinahMoon~

 

[1John5:3]

Satan attacks us in this way: he gets us to think that we MUST continue to sin (lawlessness, 1 John 3:4) even though Christ can empower us after He pardons us.

 

[BarbB]

Deception - getting us to think that what is sin is not sin.

 

[Katmando]

I'd like to open a topic about the strategy, reason, manner, and means that Satan uses to attack believers.

Startagey - Makes you believe that sin is not sin. Just like how he convinced Eve.

Reason - So he will not be alone in hell? Or may to go against God?

Manner - He deceives us. Just like how he convinced Eve that we can now as much as god.

Means - Know much about new age religion? He is working over time there, very scary. Acording to them we are all God. Ther is no evil or sin. You can just miss the mark.


<><

 

[Boanerge]

Actually satan has two means of trickery.

He tricks non believers with lies, and he tricks believers with truths.

IF you are a Christian Satan will come and tempt you with a subjective truth.

For example: "Sure you are a woman but the bible never says that a woman can not sleep with another woman, does it?"

or

"What makes you think your going to heaven? have you forgotten how horrible your past is? dont you know that God is going to bring you to account about everything you did in your past? You were an evil person. Just end your life make the Job easier for God. He will be pleased."

If you are a Non-christian Satan will come and tempt you with a lie.

For example: "Look how that person cheated you, you worked so hard, worked your best, and they did not give you the money you deserve? should you let them get away with that? but then that wouldnt be fair."

Or

"It doesnt matter if you kill yourself, its not like your going anywhere special anyways. Your going to Nothing Land. Why continue to suffer? just end it."

See satan is wise, not wise in the sense of God's wisdom. Hes wise in the sense of Man's wisdom.

the Former is not true. For if God detests male homosexuality then he also detests female homosexuality.

and

Once God forgives you, thats it. its forgotten. He will bring you to account. Not to condemn you, but to show you how he has helped you make up for those mistakes. Or did you ever wonder what is that special plan God has in your Life? Do you now see why a Sitting Christian is no Christian at All? Do you now See why Faith and Works Go together? If you believe that God will forgive you. He will. But dont be idle. Thinking that you can do what ever you want. Thank God, by living a righteous life in the NAme of Jesus Christ.

The Latter is also not true. For in the end of your life, your riches will be nothing but dirt. Left behind. While your soul goes off to where ever you believe it may go. Whether you are christian or not, materialistic riches mean nothing.

Read Ecclestiastes.

and

Energy can not be destroyed. You, Human being, are full of the divines energy. Or else you would not be living right now, you would not know what Love is. You would not know what a dream a goal or a future is. You would not be able to help others, to smile to move, if you did not have energy. Yes this Body, this body that embarrassed you in school, this body that broke a bone in the legs and cant walk. Yes this body will pass away. But The energy within you that helped you overcome the embarrassment, the energy that found out a way to continue living even if you couldnt walk. This energy does not simply Vanish. Whoever blessed you with this energy exists. Would it be too much to say that your breath of Life comes from God? That decision is yours. But human, there is purpose in your life.

Search for Jesus.

 

[Buck72]

Deception - getting us to think that what is sin is not sin.

Amen! This is the important point that I wish to post here. Satan deceives. How does he deceive? And how is one aware that they are being deceived?

1Ch 21:1-3 Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel. So David said to Joab and to the princes of the people, "Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan, and bring me word that I may know their number." Joab said, "May the LORD add to His people a hundred times as many as they are! But, my lord the king, are they not all my lord's servants? Why does my lord seek this thing? Why should he be a cause of guilt to Israel?"

1. Satan causes the believer to trust in him/herself and not the word of God.

Job 1:9-12 Then Satan answered the LORD, "Does Job fear God for nothing? "Have You not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. "But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face." Then the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him." So Satan departed from the presence of the LORD.

Zec 3:1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

2. Satan accuses the believer before God, knowing that he can wrest our faithfulness to God by attacking our possessions, familiy, or health.

Mat 4:5-7 Then the devil *took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, and *said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, 'HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU'; and 'ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.'" Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

**Notice how Christ defeats Satan...with the Word of God! "It is written.."

3. Satan misuses, misinterprets, obfuscates, warps, and twists the word of God to acheive a desired effect over the believer; the conversion of truth for a lie. This is, by far the greatest deception. Eve was deceived by the serpent, who openly challenged the word of God, causing her to doubt what the word REALLY said:

Gen 3:1-4 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?" The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'" The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!

Did you notice that Eve added words to God's original word? Check it out:

Gen 2:16-17 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Eve did not know the word of God, and she fell into deception.

Read on to Romans 1 about the chain of deception that beguiles the deceived...

Rom 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

2Co 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

4. Satan masquerades as a church leader, bishop, deacon, etc, etc. Christ says that we will know them by their fruits. I ask, how can we know the difference between good and bad fruit if we fail to find that definition in the word?

Q: Is a gay bishop an example of "bad fruit"?

1Th 2:18 For we wanted to come to you--I, Paul, more than once--and yet Satan hindered us.

5. Satan hinders the believer and delays the progress of the faith.


2Th 2:8-10 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

2Th 2:11-12 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

6. Satan can mimic signs and wonders to astonish the unbelivers (believers too) into following a lie (see Rom 1).

Q: What are we doing as a collective of believers to thwart the attacks of Satan?

 

[Boanerge]

Amen. Dont we see whats going on in the World? People are starting to believe that the Bible is no longer absolute. That it is now Obsolete. and Therefore nothing but "History and myths". The Reason why we detest God so much is because it is part of Satan's Activities. and if We Do not FIRST Know the God of the Word, and the Word of God, Then we will not know nor understand what is Satan upto. We Will be ensnared by lies just like the blind. If we knew who God really is, we would not reject Him so. Not only am i speaking about the Word of God (Bible), I am speaking about the Word of God (Voice). We need to know Both. The Bible will lead us to understand the difference between God's Voice and the Flesh's Voice. There is no difference between Satans voice (for those who understand) and the Fleshs Voice (For those who dont understand)

 

[Kelly]

Getting you to doubt. Doubt Jesus's love for you, doubt your ability to avoid sin, doubt in your ablities as a Christian....the list goes on.

 

[pmarquette]

Satan has 3 basic tools , which he uses to break the 10 commandments of God ; which he tempted Jesus in the desert with ; which he sows in our minds ( the battle ground for our soul )
1. lust of the eyes : covetousness , theft , greed
2. lust of the flesh : fornication , adultery ,
3. pride of life : pride , idolitry , selfishness

 

[MissFirerose]

IMO, he doesn't.


It's easier to live with oneself if one can put the blame for behavior and other such things on someone or something else.



I believe we're solely responsible for what we do, and blaming someone or something else gives us the illusion that we are not. It's a way of being comfortable with the people we really truly are.




Besides, giving the devil as much attention as God, but in a negative way, is a form of dualtheism, and I’m a monotheistic gal.

 

[Sunbeam]

This is an interesting topic.

I think that satan tempts us when we stop being aware of how we feel inside and aware of our need for God's guidance, commandments, our discipline, and what we need to do, what we need to initiate as well. Even if other people aren't doing the right thing, we can still choose to do what we know is right.

We can look at others and think that if so many people believe or do another way, then it must be okay. We can be tempted to easily bond with others by saying or doing things that are not good. We may feel the energy of their approval, but if we are honest, we feel worse inside and less of a person before God.

 

[Buck72]

It's easier to live with oneself if one can put the blame for behavior and other such things on someone or something else.

That's not entirely correct. The individual bears the responsibility, yes, and that is grossly underestimated in most cases, and the "devil made me do it" is an illogical excuse from a biblical point. The fact of the matter is that satan is real and carries enough significance that Christ mentions him directly 14 times in the gospels, and 5 times (direct quote) in Revelation. Christ also makes reference to demons 62 times in the gospels. It is a major point of the believer's life to deal with satan and his schemes:

2Co 2:11 so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.

The one that chooses to disregard the reality of satan is the one that plays right into his trap. His presence in the church, and Israel is documented throughout scripture, ignoring him only gives him greater leverage to deceive you!

I believe we're solely responsible for what we do, and blaming someone or something else gives us the illusion that we are not. It's a way of being comfortable with the people we really truly are.

Correct. But satan will also be held responsible for the massive wreakage upon humanity that he spawned through his deception. Nevertheless we bear the penalty for ACCEPTING his deceptions. The educated believer makes for a strong resistor!

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Besides, giving the devil as much attention as God, but in a negative way, is a form of dualtheism, and I’m a monotheistic gal.

Giving satan attention, as one may give a coiled rattlesnake attention, does NOT equate him with God. Satan is not a diety, nor has anyone here claimed such. The thread is to draw an outline into his modus operandi that we, as believers in Christ may thwart his attacks, by being wise as to how his attacks may come through biblical examples, and open forum discussion.

 

[MissFirerose]

That's not entirely correct.

In your opinion.

The individual bears the responsibility, yes, and that is grossly underestimated in most cases,

So if I go out and murder a baby, I’m “grossly underestimated” in my responsibility for my action?

and the "devil made me do it" is an illogical excuse from a biblical point.

Yet many Christians like to use it.

The fact of the matter is that satan is real

In your opinion. In my opinion, I think satan is the evil and fear within our own hearts. Bad things are present in this world because of human hatred and in some cases, stupidity.

and carries enough significance that Christ mentions him directly 14 times in the gospels, and 5 times (direct quote) in Revelation.

Things often are largely mistaken for context and such. I’m not going to give up my responsibility for my actions based on a book, even if it is the Bible.

Christ also makes reference to demons 62 times in the gospels. It is a major point of the believer's life to deal with satan and his schemes:

A hefty lot of demons were also said to have possessed people who were ill and sickly. I wonder where they all went nowadays.

2Co 2:11 so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.

Please, no random scripture quoting. As someone once said, even satan himself could use scripture to suit his needs. (no pun intended)

The one that chooses to disregard the reality of satan is the one that plays right into his trap.

So if I’m not paranoid of satan… I’m a Satanist?

His presence in the church, and Israel is documented throughout scripture,

The only bad presence I see in the church is hate from people’s own ignorance. But why blame oneself for that when one can blame the devil.

ignoring him only gives him greater leverage to deceive you!

I should think that it wouldn’t be too hard to try and do the right thing, regardless of your religion.

Correct. But satan will also be held responsible for the massive wreakage upon humanity that he spawned through his deception.

In your opinion. In my opinion, it’s humanity’s own fault.

Nevertheless we bear the penalty for ACCEPTING his deceptions. The educated believer makes for a strong resistor!

You can educate yourself until the cows come home and it can’t make up the difference for pain old morality.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

I’m not denying people think there’s a devil. In my opinion though, I think it’s the fear and darkness within ourselves.

Giving satan attention, as one may give a coiled rattlesnake attention, does NOT equate him with God.

No, but the way some folks talk about him (satan) here, you’d think it does.

Satan is not a diety, nor has anyone here claimed such.

The fact that you think satan has super natural powers in itself suggests that he’s some sort of diety. I personally see him as being nothing more than the evil within ourselves, or a fallen angel, if he really does exist.



I suppose you could think of it like this. I’m sure satan isn’t the only fallen angel, but I’m not going to give him any more attention than any other fallen angel. He’s below God, so I’m going to leave God to deal with him and worry about my own life. But.. if I ever do something bad, I’m not going to blame it on him. I’m going to blame myself, because it was my freewill and thoughts that choose to do the act, not satan.

The thread is to draw an outline into his modus operandi that we, as believers in Christ may thwart his attacks,

I guess I just don’t need to personify evilness.

by being wise as to how his attacks may come through biblical examples, and open forum discussion.

I doubt anyone here is a satanist.

 

[Buck72]

In your opinion.

Miss Firerose, I have used scripture to substantiate my posts within this thread. You, on the other hand prefer the liberal guise of showering us with multiple short reponses with such depth as: "In your opinion".

FORGET OPINION. OPINIONS DIE WITH THE OPINIONATOR. WHAT DOES THE WORD OF GOD SAY?

Your post had zero reference to the word of God.

So if I go out and murder a baby, I’m “grossly underestimated” in my responsibility for my action?

Sister, did you read, or comprehend my statement? Because it appears that either I failed to communicate effectively, OR you failed to understand me, either way, allow me to clarify:

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS UNDERESTIMATED IN TODAY'S SOCIETY.

That means it is not given due regard.

This includes the church. People are looking for other's to blame. I was arguing that we bear the burden for our actions, but to the believer tempation comes via three distinct channels:

1. Our flesh (James 1:14)
2. The world (1 John 2:15-17)
3. Satan (1 Cor 7:5)

I'd like to respond to your statement, but I must confess I have no idea what you were trying to communicate.

In your opinion. In my opinion, I think satan is the evil and fear within our own hearts. Bad things are present in this world because of human hatred and in some cases, stupidity.

Here's my one of my biggest challenges to liberal Christians:

"I think" - does not fit into the realm of ABSOLUTE truth that Christ has provided us with His word. It is a rudderless method to maintain course on the straight and narrow and provides ZERO guidance to matters of obedience to Christ and the practice of the faith.

WHAT DOES THE WORD OF GOD SAY?

Things often are largely mistaken for context and such. I’m not going to give up my responsibility for my actions based on a book, even if it is the Bible.

My point is rapidly being demonstrated here.

A hefty lot of demons were also said to have possessed people who were ill and sickly. I wonder where they all went nowadays.

Who says they went anywhere? Have you been outside this country to see how the rest of the world lives in 24/7 awareness of spirits, demons, and forces of darkness? Take a mission trip to Africa and then you'll not have to worry about where they went, you'll know. Western culture does not experience the overt activity seen in Africa/Asia, we're too busy worshipping materialism, money, success, career, etc. We have already sold out our spirituality for the $. The enemy doesn't have to be too tough with us...just enough pressure to keep us from catching a clue and being saved from all of this horrendous mess.

Please, no random scripture quoting. As someone once said, even satan himself could use scripture to suit his needs. (no pun intended)

This is a Christian Forum right? You want to get into a big debate sister? No Bible? Tell me Miss "Firerose"...who is your God? My God spoke the WORD OF GOD and made it possible for me to hold, read, learn, speak, live, AND QUOTE anytime, anyplace. You honor your liberal peers with "Bible Censorship" - even in this Christian Forum! HA-HA-HA!!!!

Please excuse my conservative wit - I see and hear liberals trash the Bible day in day out...they hate the Bible because it tells them how to live and its answers are simple, concise, and claim to be absolute (thus irrefutable). That idea is abominable to the average liberal seeking to "liberate" themselves from such pale drudgery. (See Rom 1).

Maybe you could simply write your own Bible?

So if I’m not paranoid of satan… I’m a Satanist?

Once again the communication process is broken down:

WHERE DID YOU DRAW THIS CONCLUSION FROM? Certainly not from anything posted in this thread.

The only bad presence I see in the church is hate from people’s own ignorance. But why blame oneself for that when one can blame the devil.

What about you then.....hmmmm? Validate your point please, or turn the mirror around.

I can see myself plainly enough through the reflection and lens of scripture...where do you fit in?

The fact that you think satan has super natural powers in itself suggests that he’s some sort of diety. I personally see him as being nothing more than the evil within ourselves, or a fallen angel, if he really does exist.

Where do you get this stuff? Have you read your Bible? Satan is a spiritual being. Get it? S-P-I-R-I-T means: extra-dimensional, non-tangible, fleshless, indescript, unobervable, "ghost-like" (however, arguably that the spiritual plane is of a greater 'reality' than the 4-dimensional plane we exist in; see 2 Kings 6:17).

I suppose you could think of it like this. I’m sure satan isn’t the only fallen angel, but I’m not going to give him any more attention than any other fallen angel. He’s below God, so I’m going to leave God to deal with him and worry about my own life. But.. if I ever do something bad, I’m not going to blame it on him. I’m going to blame myself, because it was my freewill and thoughts that choose to do the act, not satan.

Satan took a THIRD of the angels from heaven. I'm not certain how many there were to begin with, but I'll wager a third is a lot.

What do you mean: "If I ever do something bad..."?

Are you aware of what sin even is? Read Exodus 20. Then ask yourself if you've done anything bad (have you ever LIED?), then confess it to Christ.

I'm getting tired of trying to tell you I, nor anyone in here has said: "blame satan for your sin".

He attacks through DECEPTION. Are you deceived? How do you know?

Check out how Christ answered the Pharisees regarding their influence of/by satan:

Joh 8:43 "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

Joh 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Joh 8:45 "But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.

Joh 8:46 "Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?

Joh 8:47 "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."

 

[BarbB]

Satan attacks us by our ignorance or denial of him and our defences which are in the Bible. If we have no knowledge of the Armor of God, we might have very faint defense against Satan.

 

[Shekinahs]

Besides, giving the devil as much attention as God, but in a negative way, is a form of dualtheism, and I’m a monotheistic gal.

THANKYOU

I've often thought some Christians spend to much time giving attention to Satan even if it is negative. Satan this and Satan that...and people wonder why they can not seem to get him "of their backs". People keep calling his name all the time. Keep calling his name and he will show up.

~ShekinahMoon~

 

[MissFirerose]

Miss Firerose, I have used scripture to substantiate my posts within this thread.

From the moment you read scripture, you’re adding your own interpretation to it. Without thoughts attached to them, words are nothing but meaningliess sounds floating about in the air, and written words nothing but scratches upon a paper.

You, on the other hand prefer the liberal guise

Jesus was a liberal.

of showering us with multiple short reponses with such depth as: "In your opinion".

I love your subtle jabs. But it doesn’t change the truth that from the moment you read something, you add your opinion and thoughts to it. I said such a thing to point out your obvious power trip. You are not God, I am not God. We do the best we can to understand what was left for us, and your interpretation is no more valid than mine, and vice versa. What it boils down to is what is truly right. If the Bible said to kill babies, I wouldn’t do it. Would you?

FORGET OPINION.

So we’re all walking chess pieces? That’s pleasant.

OPINIONS DIE WITH THE OPINIONATOR.

That’s irreverent, since we’re both living at this moment. If one of us were to die, our conversation would end.

WHAT DOES THE WORD OF GOD SAY?

What you think it says.

Your post had zero reference to the word of God.

Being able to link an opinion to a verse in the Bible doesn’t translate into being a reference from the “word of God”, it shows you’re good with words.

Sister, did you read, or comprehend my statement?

….

Sorry if I confused you. I was under the impression that you felt that satan takes most of the blame for our actions. I responded saying that if I were to go out and kill somebody, would satan be to blame, or would I?

Here's my one of my biggest challenges to liberal Christians:

I welcome it.

"I think" - does not fit into the realm of ABSOLUTE truth that Christ has provided us with His word.

Exactly. Fundemtalists do not think. Thinking is what bugs them the most. Fundamentalism is like a form of therapy. It takes the fear out of life, because you have your cozy ideals.



An interesting point is that if the first generation of Christians (Jewish Christians to be exact) hadn’t been liberal, Christianity wouldn’t have ever come to be. In order to accept Jesus as their savior, they had to go against certain arguments in the OT, mainly, that the Jewish messiah would NOT die but would lead their people and establish the Messianic Kingdom over Israel. Isaiah 11:1-10, Psalm 72:1-19.



Jesus did not come to reign over the Messianic Kingdom, he died a most huliiating death. In case you didn’t know, crisifiction was reserved for common criminals. Because of this, his followers had to decide for themselves if they were to belive him to be their messiah. If they had gone by the Book, as you like to do, their own scripture would have ruled Jesus out.

It is a rudderless method

I could say some things about your method.

to maintain course on the straight and narrow and provides ZERO guidance to matters of obedience to Christ

Wrong. Liberals can follow the teachings of Christ, maybe more than some fundamentalists. I choose to follow the teachings of Christ because I find them to be the most moral and loving code availible to me. A fundamentliast is anyone who says “every single word in this book is the one and true word of god, and has one true meaning.” A liberal is someone who does agree that the Bible contains the word of God, but isn’t immune to the idea that politcs may have had a play into it, and look at scripture from every angle. Fundamentalists flatten Jesus and God into a two dimentional figure in a book, liberals see him as a person.

and the practice of the faith.

Faith and religion are two separate things. One can pay lipservice to their God, go to their temple, Church, or whatever, and not be practicing faith.

WHAT DOES THE WORD OF GOD SAY?

Capitializing does nothing but give an eye sore.

Who says they went anywhere? ....

I’m not saying there aren’t demons in this world. I’m saying that it’s probable that a lot of what was in reality types of sickness were regarded as demons in Jesus’s time.

No Bible?

Who said anything about totally disregarding the Bible?

Tell me Miss "Firerose"

Do you find something amusing about my chosen alias. Or do you simply like to jab at your opponents instead of having a conversation?

...who is your God?

My God is love. Because Jesus symbolized love, I belive in Jesus.

My God spoke the WORD OF GOD and made it possible for me to hold, read, learn, speak, live, AND QUOTE anytime, anyplace.

Jesus also spoke, or did you not know that?

You honor your liberal peers with "Bible Censorship" - even in this Christian Forum! HA-HA-HA!!!!

Do you take pleasure in laughing at people. Very Christian of you.

Please excuse my conservative wit –

I have yet to see any in good taste.

I see and hear liberals trash the Bible day in day out...

That’s quite a little blanket statement you have there. Not all liberals trash the Bible.

they hate the Bible because it tells them how to live and its answers are simple, concise, and claim to be absolute (thus irrefutable).

Another blanket statement. I don’t hate the Bible. I love the parts that talk about Jesus. I just tend to see parts about rapists marrying their victims (Deuteronomy 22:28-29), men forcing imprisioned women to marry them (Numbers 31:1-18), polygamy (Genesis 4:19), incest (genesis 19:32), and smashing babies as ((Isaiah 13:15-16)), rape ((Judges 19:24-25), Judges 19, Verse 25) not coinciding with my moral code. But that’s just me.

That idea is abominable to the average liberal seeking to "liberate" themselves from such pale drudgery. (See Rom 1).

No, we just choose not to to belive something blindly.

Maybe you could simply write your own Bible?

If that’s supposed to be a mockery, it’s a sad attempt at one. Liberals do use the Bible, but they use morality as well.

What about you then.....hmmmm?

What about me? I’m not the one jabbing at people here. I’m not perfect by far, but I try to to be arrogant.

Validate your point please,

Validate my point? Take a look at people like Fred Philips, then you’ll see what I mean.

or turn the mirror around.

My mirror’s not clogged or covered at all. Is yours?

I can see myself plainly enough through the reflection and lens of scripture...where do you fit in?

I see myself plainly enough through the relection of the lens of love… where do you fit in?

Where do you get this stuff?

From thinking.

Have you read your Bible?

I think it could be concidered rude to ask someone that question in a forum like this.

Satan is a spiritual being.

What happened to him being a fallen angel?

Get it?

“Get it?”... and you were mad about me usuing “in your opinion” before….

S-P-I-R-I-T

Sorry, but I laughted when I read that. You sound like a cheerleader.

means: ….

Thanks for the dictionary definition.

What do you mean: "If I ever do something bad..."?

I meant someone “bad” as in… murder, rape, stealing, etc… which I hope to God I never do. I didn’t mean “bad” as in every day “bad”. Of course I’m not perfect, far from it.

Are you aware of what sin even is?

I detect the tone of sarcasm here.



Do you know what it is? Think for a moment before answering.

Read Exodus 20. Then ask yourself if you've done anything bad (have you ever LIED?), then confess it to Christ.

Read above: I meant bad as in killing or such.

I'm getting tired of trying to tell you I, nor anyone in here has said: "blame satan for your sin".

Funny, that’s the impression I get a lot from certain Christians.

He attacks through DECEPTION. Are you deceived? How do you know?

If I need a book to tell me that killing a baby, raping someone, or other such things are wrong, thank I’d worry about myself.

 

[MissFirerose]

THANKYOU

I've often thought some Christians spend to much time giving attention to Satan even if it is negative. Satan this and Satan that...and people wonder why they can not seem to get him "of their backs". People keep calling his name all the time. Keep calling his name and he will show up.

~ShekinahMoon~

Yep, worry about yourself, and you'll notice you can clean out all the gunk you think something else put there.

Funny though... if people did keep saying his name enough and he showed up one day... oi vey...

 

[Buck72]

From the moment you read scripture, you’re adding your own interpretation to it. Without thoughts attached to them, words are nothing but meaningliess sounds floating about in the air, and written words nothing but scratches upon a paper.

1. I do read scripture
2. Strangely enough, I do not have to "add" my own interpretation to it, it is all-inclusive. The Bible is its own interpretation so long as it is within the context. I ask you to show me where I have "added my own interpretation" - Please ma'am, show me, show me, show me.

With regard to words without thought: you said it, not me!

Jesus was a liberal.

By whose definition? To the Pharisees He was a heretic and worthy of death. I challenge you to call Him "liberal" here:

Mat 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

I love your subtle jabs.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't allow myself to get carried away with debate. My apologies.

But it doesn’t change the truth that from the moment you read something, you add your opinion and thoughts to it. I said such a thing to point out your obvious power trip. You are not God, I am not God. We do the best we can to understand what was left for us, and your interpretation is no more valid than mine, and vice versa.

I agree, except for the "interpretation" and the "power trip" part. I am powerless, Christ is powerful and His word is powerful. Those who choose to disregard the truth are making an error, I am merely an agent of truth who wants to correct the error. Isn't that the job of believers, to hold one another in check that we may be found blameless? Hey, if it says: "homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God" like it does in 1 Cor 6:9, and I have a brother telling others that they WILL inherit the Kingdom of God - SOMEONE IS LYING. You can see my signature verse below and conclude that it is not God. So then, do I smile and accept Gene Robinson's confirmation as a gay bishop? Or do I say: "Hey! wait a minute!". Thus we have the dichotomy of liberal vs. conservative. It has to do with upholding standards, not ideas.

What it boils down to is what is truly right. If the Bible said to kill babies, I wouldn’t do it. Would you?

It doesn't say to kill babies. The very thought is contrary to the nature of God. BUT, take a look at this:

Gen 22:2 He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you."

It appears God DID tell Abraham to kill his own baby. Hmmmm. Or did he simply ask him as a matter of FAITH as Hebrews 11:

Heb 11:171-19 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; it was he to whom it was said, "IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED." He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.


Abraham's test was one of OBEDIENCE THROUGH FAITH, having BELIEVED the WORD OF GOD.

So we’re all walking chess pieces? That’s pleasant.

Of course we have a choice...what's the analogy?

That’s irreverent, since we’re both living at this moment. If one of us were to die, our conversation would end.

For crying out loud. Look, opinion is IRRELEVANT to matters of truth. God's word is absolutely true and it is not open to variety like a doctrinal smorgasboard.

What you think it says.

How about what is DOES SAY? Who cares what anyone thinks it says.

Being able to link an opinion to a verse in the Bible doesn’t translate into being a reference from the “word of God”, it shows you’re good with words. [/QUOTE]

No. No, no, no, no, no. Miss Firerose, listen:

I did not have an opinion on much of anything when I was found by Christ. Subsequent to salvation, He became my "opinion" as my ways of doing things were dashed into bits by the word of God. That is part of the magical transformation of the Christian, unless of course you reject the transformation and blunder about in an arrested state of spiritual development arguaing over "opinion".

AGAIN I APPEAL TO: WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY?

Sorry if I confused you. I was under the impression that you felt that satan takes most of the blame for our actions. I responded saying that if I were to go out and kill somebody, would satan be to blame, or would I?

Likewise, sorry for misunderstanding you. To answer your question: You would.

I welcome it

If you did, you'd be the first.

Exactly. Fundemtalists do not think. Thinking is what bugs them the most. Fundamentalism is like a form of therapy. It takes the fear out of life, because you have your cozy ideals.

I can assure you, I think quite a bit. I never stop thinking, ever. I am provoked to think by the word of God everytime I go near it.

I am also not a believer is "fundamentalism" whereby that is the essence that gives me therapy. I am a believer in Christ, and yes, He is the ONLY therapy that there is PERIOD. I have no fear of man, but I have plenty of fear of my own sinfulness and the answers that I will have to provide when I meet Him face to face.

An interesting point is that if the first generation of Christians (Jewish Christians to be exact) hadn’t been liberal, Christianity wouldn’t have ever come to be. In order to accept Jesus as their savior, they had to go against certain arguments in the OT, mainly, that the Jewish messiah would NOT die but would lead their people and establish the Messianic Kingdom over Israel. Isaiah 11:1-10, Psalm 72:1-19.

There's that "liberal" word again without a definition. Jewish Christians were NOT forced to abandon the Law, but rather to avoid forcing the Gentile Christians into taking the Law as a nessecary means to complete their salvation. Christ's death was foretold throughout scripture starting in Genesis 3:15. However, as in our discussion here, and my debates with other liberal Christians...they DID NOT READ the scriptures to rightly ascertain these events! If the would they would have known.

Check out Isiah 50-53, Psalm 22 and 69, and marvel at the details of His crucifixtion, while asking yourself how did they (the Jews) NOT see this?

Jesus did not come to reign over the Messianic Kingdom, he died a most huliiating death. In case you didn’t know, crisifiction was reserved for common criminals. Because of this, his followers had to decide for themselves if they were to belive him to be their messiah. If they had gone by the Book, as you like to do, their own scripture would have ruled Jesus out.

Read the previous post sister. Then get back to me. And, I do know that crucifixtion was a Roman invention for capital punishment, which is why it is amazing the the "Book" spoke of it 1,500 years before its invention!

I could say some things about your method.

Go ahead then.

Wrong. Liberals can follow the teachings of Christ, maybe more than some fundamentalists. I choose to follow the teachings of Christ because I find them to be the most moral and loving code availible to me. A fundamentliast is anyone who says “every single word in this book is the one and true word of god, and has one true meaning.” A liberal is someone who does agree that the Bible contains the word of God, but isn’t immune to the idea that politcs may have had a play into it, and look at scripture from every angle.

Here we go:

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Mat 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Mat 5:19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Christ must be a fundamental then huh?

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

Eph 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

There is not a shred of proof that the Bible contains any political "spin" of any kind. That statement is pure, unsubstantiated speculation, the very sort of thing that grills my soul about liberals; failure to recognize that something may be complete the way it is.

Fundamentalists flatten Jesus and God into a two dimentional figure in a book, liberals see him as a person

Joh 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

The Word is a Person, not a "book".

Faith and religion are two separate things. One can pay lipservice to their God, go to their temple, Church, or whatever, and not be practicing faith.

Very true.

Capitializing does nothing but give an eye sore.

It's my style to emphasize a point. I could fuss about your liberal (no pun) use of blank space in your posts that take up an entire page, but I won't.