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Great! You are here. I know this is one of your favorite subjects so do your do.
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Happy to!
Numbers 23:10
Judges 16:30
Let my nephesh (soul) die....
Doctrine in all the bible is the same OT or NT. There is no Jewish and christian way.
Hbr 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Ah but the soul doesn't come from the dust.
I see... so you're ok?
And the rest of Christianity is not?
Forgive me...
No because there was nothing to elucidate (i like that wordOkay, I can go with that. Can you agree, then, that Genesis 1 does not address the triple nature of man, which is elucidated later, especially in the NT?
His life was the breath of God which made Him a soul. A soul is the union of the breath of God and the body of man. How can you say what the point of the verse is? And what do you mean by divine nature?Exactly! Thus, when Adam became a living being, that is exactly what happened - his life came into him. It does not mean that he did not gain a soul or a spirit at that point in time, but merely that he came to life. The point of the verse is not to explain the divine nature placed within Adam but merely to express the fact that he came to life.
To clarify, do you believe that the meaning behind the soul departing was to express that the soul was going back to heaven?Yes, this is the same book where he both said Adam became a living person (being or soul) and that Rachel's soul (life) departed from her. This is not rocket science. Moses did not intend to make deep theological statements about the nature of the human being in either instance. The very best we can say in either instance is that life (soul) came and went - end of story.
Medical records? Really? What medical records prove that when you die your spirit and soul goes to heaven? And what's the difference between the soul and spirit, aren't they one in the same? And why is it that you have no problem understanding Jesus' play on words in regards to the Spirit, but you can't believe the NT writers would use a play on words in regards to the use of the word soul?When you die your body remains on earth and your soul and spirit either go to heaven or hell. I do not know of any medical records proving that any person's last breath went to heaven. Because Jesus made a play on words in John 3 about the Holy Spirit and the wind, do you believe, as do some, that the Holy Spirit is nothing more or less than a gust of air?
It's cool. I actually enjoy our exchanges.Please accept my apologies for the sarcasm.
I agree that they didn't just come up with this either. And No, I don't see any contradiction between man being created in the image of God and being a living being. That said: there is no cherrypicking occurring here, at least no more then what you are doing. My understanding stems from Genesis, Psalms, Ecclesiastes, Isaiah, Malachi, etc.The OT is filled with references to the spirit and to the soul, so I doubt that the NT writers suddenly came up with these ideas on their own. What you have done is to cherrypick a verse from Genesis 1 to support your doctrine and have ignored other, equally relevant passages and verses, many of which expand upon the notion that man is a living being. There is absolutely no contradiction between believing that man is a living being and that man is made in the image of God, is there?
No, they were simple men lol. They were just simple men who had faith in their God, which made it easy for God to use them. But what does the existence of angels and demons and so forth have to do with ghosts?Thus, the Apostles actually were not the country bumpkins that some have made them out to be. Nor, for that matter, were the writers of the OT who also referenced angels, seraphim cherubim, the adversary (Satan), and demons.
I won't try to explain what is beyond my ability to completely comprehend. What I do know is that scripture says the Word was with God and the Word was God. Scripture says "Let us make man in our image". I see at the Baptism of Christ the Father speaking from heaven, and the Spirit descending as a dove. I know that God is one. And that's about the best I can give you.Now it is my turn to be confused. You wrote "I don't know what SDA's you've spoken with but we teach that the Father, Son, and Spirit are separate beings. Co-Eternal and Equal. One God. The Father is the Father. The Son is the Son. The Spirit is the Spirit." That was in response to my trinitarian statement about God being an eternal spirit. Apparently you do not understand the hypostatic union (actually, I am not sure that any of us fully comprehend it). Otherwise I doubt you would have said that you believe in three separate beings.
Indeed. I was just saying that I wouldn't use the term possession in the same fashion. I believe the Father, Son, and Spirit are One.I would never say that God, the Holy Spirit, is the same thing as your breath. What I believe is that even as the Holy Spirit is integral with the godhead so our spirit is integral to who we are. Our spirit is not a mass of air that gets inhaled and exhaled any more than the Holy Spirt is a gust of wind.
No. Sorry I don't. I believe One God - Three Persons. Again, it's out of my scope to fathom so I won't try to break it down since I can't.Therefore you reject the trinity which is one God composed of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - not three separate gods.
This isn't about being "ok". And just because the majority holds to something it doesn't make it right. The history of Israel attests to this fact, and for quite a while they were under a theocracy.
Can you show Scripture saying that the soul ceases to exist on the demise of the flesh?
Nevermind that it's what has always been held by these groups from the beginning?
If 'a teaching' doesn't have it's source in Apostolic Christianity, then it's false witness to teach that it is a 'Christian' teaching. Call it 'something else'.. but not Christian.
Forgive me...
Thank you.
What I highlighted in red is the context of 'soul' in the bible and 'soul' dies at physical death.
There for, if a human person (whole ) is a 'soul' it would encompass body, flesh, heart, spirit etc as a collective term.
Here are the verses that prove 'soul' dies at death.
Numbers 23:10
Judges 16:30
From the beginning of what?
The soul is the union of body + the breath of God.
From dust ye came, to dust ye shall return. That's what God said to Adam. If you live on after you die then guess what that mean? That means "ye shall not surely die". Sound familiar?
"Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Believe you this?" John 11:25-26
sounds real familiar, indeed.
Sorry, God never said "ye shall not surely die". And in this verse Christ said "though he were dead yet (future tense) shall he live".
Christ has power to undo what death does. Again, if you shed your flesh and your Spirit goes to heaven, then you didn't die. You simply underwent a metamorphosis, kinda like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly.
What? Jesus said anyone who believes in him will never die, it plainly states that in Scripture.
Stryder, the physical body dies and the spirit returns to Christ, till the ressurection of the dead.
What?
Jesus said anyone who believes in him will never die, it plainly states that in Scripture.
Thought this was interesting:
[FONT="]Leviticus 17:11 tells us:[/FONT][FONT="] For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul[/FONT]
So if blood makes atonement for the soul, is there any atonement made for the flesh since the two are distinct and separate parts?
So then Satan was right when he told Eve "ye shall not surely die"?
Did you ever notice the difference between how Christ spoke of believers versus those who didn't believe.
The pharisees, Christ said, would die in their sins.
Lazarus, however, was asleep.
Christ doesn't look at death the way we do. He is Eternal, seeing the tomorrow of the believer today. When you die in Christ you will live for all eternity. However if you die in your sins then you will be dead forever at the end of the judgment.
Satan was wrong! However, Jesus Christ was right when He said, "if you believe in me, you will never die", because He is LIFE.
Those who believe in Jesus Christ will never die, it's plain stated in Scripture numerous times.
"And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Acts 7:59
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