• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

How Badly has Matthew 19:9 been Corrupted?

johansen

Active Member
Sep 13, 2023
390
95
36
silverdale
✟39,427.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No sex does not change the genetics of the other person, otherwise you'd start taking on phenotype traits of your spouse or anyone you ever had sex with, your eye color could change, your skin color or hair color could change, etc.
it doesn't change your dna in a way that we can currently measure, but having a child permanently changes the woman's body with influences from the offspring.
 
Upvote 0

johansen

Active Member
Sep 13, 2023
390
95
36
silverdale
✟39,427.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
as for childbearing? well, Isaiah 65:23 does actually kinda say that people will have offspring on the New Earth so maybe there's a way for someone who was sterile or unmarried in this life to be able to be a parent on the New Earth still, I don't know how exactly it would work.
yes, reproduction continues on the new earth. but not in heaven.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
8,006
2,523
44
Helena
✟249,623.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
it doesn't change your dna in a way that we can currently measure, but having a child permanently changes the woman's body with influences from the offspring.
yeah.. those people are biologically related to you, note it doesn't say your spouse or casual sex partners. A pregnant woman will have cells of her children that end up sloughing off and going through the placenta and end up in the mother's circulation and can wind up somewhere in her body.

That is not what the OP that I'm disputing this over is talking about. He's trying to say marriage makes you biologically related to your spouse and so that relationship never ends, like the relationship between a mother and child never ends.
Marriage ends.
 
Upvote 0

robert424

Active Member
Jun 12, 2021
51
16
70
calgary
✟25,366.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This explanation fails on 2 fronts:

1. The question answered had to do with a woman that was "given in marriage" 7 times, they asked who's wife she'd be, Jesus' answer was nobody's. She wouldn't remain the wife of any of those she was given in marriage to. That directly refutes what you're trying to say that they stay married.
Marriage (a legal relationship) ends. No sex does not change the genetics of the other person, otherwise you'd start taking on phenotype traits of your spouse or anyone you ever had sex with, your eye color could change, your skin color or hair color could change, etc.

2. If all marriage is ended, everyone's single, that's equal. If people who got married stay married and people who died without finding anyone are forced to stay single for all of eternity juxtaposed against happy married couples while they're lonely, that's a pretty awful place. Not everyone would choose marriage of course but there are going to be people who'd choose marriage if they had the opportunity but it never arises, or they die young.

as for childbearing? well, Isaiah 65:23 does actually kinda say that people will have offspring on the New Earth so maybe there's a way for someone who was sterile or unmarried in this life to be able to be a parent on the New Earth still, I don't know how exactly it would work.
Jamdoc wrote: "The question answered had to do with a woman that was "given in marriage" 7 times, they asked who's wife she'd be, Jesus' answer was nobody's."
Yah! a Bible Text. XD. Thank your for your arguments, and thank your for a Bible Text.

The short answer to your argument: I disagree what Jesus answered 'nobody's. It is not a fact that Jesus said 'nobody's'. I argue that the statement of Jesus implies 'all seven of them'. The woman is a polygamous, and there is no erasing that fact, and in heaven she will remain a polygamous woman. She is definitely not going to go back to being a virgin.

The long answer - paraphrasing: the Pharisees asked which of the seven husbands would have the woman. Jesus replied, saying that the Pharisees didn't know the Scripture, and stated that, in heaven, neither male humans nor female humans will be getting married [literally: neither married, nor given in marriage].

Mark 12:25 "For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but as as the angels which are in heaven."

[paraphrasing: For when humans shall rise from the dead, the risen male humans will not be getting married, nor will the risen female humans be given in marriage, but they will be as the unfallen angels in heaven.]

Because Jesus contrasted the woman's marriages to the female unfallen angels, who are not 'given in marriage' in heaven, I interpret Mark 12:25 to mean that there are no NEW marriages in heaven.

So, we can see then, that Jesus did not directly answer the question of the Pharisees. The Pharisees asked which of the seven husbands will be the husband of their common wife, and Jesus answered, (paraphrasing: 'Well, neither the risen males will be getting married, nor will the risen females be given in marriage in heaven.') and he didn't address the question of which of the seven marriages would be valid in heaven.

So, in the case of the woman with seven husbands, when they all get to heaven, all seven of the men will be wanting to spend some time with the woman. Every one of them will be her husband, and they will all have to share her attention [that is so....o...o.o.o. disrespectful - making a bunch of men share one woman's attention. lol., but I suppose it is no different than seven sons, having to share the attention of one mother.]. On earth, we call that Polyandry - one woman; multiple men, which is a type of Polygamy. The only thing that will be different is that there is no sex in heaven. They will all have to live in blissful, celibate, polygamous/polyandrous marriage.

The fact that Jesus did not tell the Pharisees which of the seven husbands would be the woman's husband, begs the question about whether the death of a spouse terminates a marriage. Most theologians quote Romans 7:2,3 " For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband. So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man."

But it is pure presumption to conclude from this text that the woman is no longer married when her husband dies. It says she is "loosed from the law of [her] husband". It does not say 'she is no longer married to her husband'. One does not logically follow from the other. If this widow remarries, she becomes a bigamist - but bigamy and polygamy and polyandry goes unpunished in the Bible. Just because God does not punish polygamy in the Bible, does not mean, that death terminates a marriage. [Note: Bigamy is illegal in the USA and the British commonwealth countries.]

When a Parent dies, they are still your parent, even though they are dead. When an uncle dies, he is still your uncle. When a son dies, the father-son relationship is not terminated. When Christ died, He was still our King, even though he was dead, and when he arose again, he took up his crown as King. If death does not terminate these relationships, then why should it terminate a Spousal relationship?

God likens death to sleep - it is temporary. So, if your spousal relationship is not terminated when they are asleep, then why would their death - which is temporary in the eyes of God - terminate the spousal relationship.

[Deut. 31:16 "And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold thou shalt sleep with thy fathers ..."]

But Wait! It gets worse.

How about the case of a large majority of Christian (Protestant and Catholic) men, who have high 'body counts' [to use the modern term]. They call it 'dating', which means: burger, fries, movie, [and then the euphemism] 'home run', and repeat many times and each iteration increases his 'body count' by one more. None of these 'relationships' involve a 'legal contract'. How do you explain all these? Which of these 'conquests' will be his in heaven? My answer is that each and every one is a 'marriage', because 'Sex is marriage'. True, they have a different title: Concubines, harlots, girlfriend with benefits etc. In the case: If the guy confesses his sin and repents and goes to heaven which of these females will belong to him? I answer: all of them. He will have to deal with all of them and all the multitude of consequences of his behavior - for eternity. What happened between him and all these females cannot be erased. The consequences of his actions will not be erased. He will have to deal with it - for eternity - and the consequences are not restricted to just between him and the female, but extend to all her family members too, and he will have to deal with that too - for eternity. In short, God will forgive, but consequences are eternal.

Jamdoc wrote: Marriage (a legal relationship) ends.
I counter that there is no 'legal relationship', because, according to the law, a person can't make a 'legal contract' with a 'minor', or a human who is not a 'legal person', and women were not recognized as a 'legal person' until 1929 in Canada, - before 1929, women were under the system called 'Coverture' - therefore no 'legal contract' is valid, therefore, Marriage is not a 'legal contract'.

[Evidence]: from Coverture - Wikipedia
"Coverture was a legal doctrine in English common law ... in which a married woman's legal existence was considered to be merged with that of her husband. Upon marriage, she had no independent legal existence of her own, in keeping with society's expectation that her husband was to provide for and protect her."

But, to be fair, upon re-reading it, I notice that you changed it from 'contract' to 'legal relationship', so maybe we are making some progress here. If you mean - by legal relationship - that civil government recognition of the 'relationship' will end, then, ok, I agree with that, but only because on the judgement day, all civil authority will be wiped out. There will be no civil government at that point. But if you take out the word 'legal' and just say that 'the marriage relationship ends'; then I disagree with that.

Jamdoc wrote: No [-] sex does not change the genetics of the other person, otherwise you'd start taking on phenotype traits of your spouse or anyone you ever had sex with, your eye color could change, your skin color or hair color could change, etc.
When a human stomach - or a white blood cell - 'digests' something, for example, a carrot, or a dead sperm cell, all the proteins and DNA, is broken up into short fragments, which are incorporated into the cells of the host - the short fragments are recycled. We would not expect to see changes in phenotype because the short fragments are much shorter than 'genes', nevertheless, the host DNA is changed. The saying 'You are what you eat' is literally true. When you eat a carrot or a sperm cell, all the protein, and DNA, and carbohydrates inside it are broken up and become part of You. Yes, your DNA is merged with the DNA of what you eat - or otherwise exchange DNA with.

An example of longer DNA sequences being inserted into the host DNA occurs with virus's.

[Evidence] from Viral Integration and Consequences on Host Gene Expression - PMC (accessed: 10 March 2025)
"Abstract: Upon cell infection, some viruses integrate their genome [their DNA] into the host chromosome, either as part of their life cycle (such as retroviruses), or incidentally."

So, yes, exchanging DNA with another person, does change their DNA, and like I said before, if the wife is a oral sodomist and swallows, the husband's DNA will be incorporated into her DNA. They will - literally - become one - same as eating a carrot - no difference.

Jamdoc wrote: "If all marriage is ended, everyone's single, that's equal. ... people who died without finding anyone are forced to stay single for all of eternity ..."
True. But think of a city full of the most Loving, Loyal, Righteous, tender-hearted, Virtuous, people that ever lived on earth. 'Single' also has huge benefits: a lot less emotional baggage, a lot less family responsibilities - you'll get to spend more time with God. The fact that the angels are capable of marriage, but choose singlehood, says a lot about the desirability of singlehood.

jamdoc wrote: "Isaiah 65:23 does actually kinda say that people will have offspring on the New Earth"
Isaiah 65:23 "They will not labor in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; they [are] the seed of the blessed LORD, and their offspring with them."

I believe that there will be tons of orphan babies in the New Earth, that will need adults to take care of them, and I'm sure that God will be asking for adult volunteers and assigning the orphan babies to available adults. And where ever there are babies, the women will gather, and that woman and orphan baby will need support from other adults so there will be plenty of opportunities for 'single' people to form 'celibate friendship groups' to help raise an orphan baby. The New Earth will be a busy place.

In my opinion in Isaiah 65:23, those words "will have offspring" have to be read in the context of the preceding phrase where God says that all people are the offspring of God, so the following words "will have offspring" does not automatically mean that women will be getting pregnant and birthing babies, but that they will be taking care of, and raising, orphan babies, assigned to them by God. I also think - without proof - that God will hand over- to any woman who lost an unborn baby - the baby she lost, so she will get a chance to raise her own baby that she lost.

That is just my opinion though - for what its worth.

robert424
 
Upvote 0

robert424

Active Member
Jun 12, 2021
51
16
70
calgary
✟25,366.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
yes, reproduction continues on the new earth. but not in heaven.

Isaiah 65:23 "They will not labor in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; they [are] the seed of the blessed LORD, and their offspring with them."

In my opinion, in Isaiah 65:23, those words "will have offspring" have to be read in the context of the preceding phrase where God says that all people are the offspring of God, so the following words "will have offspring" does not automatically mean that women will be getting pregnant and birthing babies, but that they will be taking care of, and raising, orphan babies, assigned to them by God. I also think - without proof - that God will hand over - to any woman who lost an unborn baby - the baby she lost, so she will get a chance to raise her own baby that she lost.

I believe that there will be tons of orphan babies in the New Earth, that will need adults to take care of them, and I'm sure that God will be asking for adult volunteers and assigning the orphan babies to available adults - adoption. And where ever there are babies, the women will gather, and that woman and orphan baby will need support from other adults so there will be plenty of opportunities for 'single' people to form 'celibate friendship groups' to help raise an orphan baby. The New Earth will be a busy place.

robert424
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
8,006
2,523
44
Helena
✟249,623.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Yah! a Bible Text. XD. Thank your for your arguments, and thank your for a Bible Text.

The short answer to your argument: I disagree what Jesus answered 'nobody's. It is not a fact that Jesus said 'nobody's'. I argue that the statement of Jesus implies 'all seven of them'. The woman is a polygamous, and there is no erasing that fact, and in heaven she will remain a polygamous woman. She is definitely not going to go back to being a virgin.

The long answer - paraphrasing: the Pharisees asked which of the seven husbands would have the woman. Jesus replied, saying that the Pharisees didn't know the Scripture, and stated that, in heaven, neither male humans nor female humans will be getting married [literally: neither married, nor given in marriage].

Mark 12:25 "For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but as as the angels which are in heaven."

[paraphrasing: For when humans shall rise from the dead, the risen male humans will not be getting married, nor will the risen female humans be given in marriage, but they will be as the unfallen angels in heaven.]

Because Jesus contrasted the woman's marriages to the female unfallen angels, who are not 'given in marriage' in heaven, I interpret Mark 12:25 to mean that there are no NEW marriages in heaven.

So, we can see then, that Jesus did not directly answer the question of the Pharisees. The Pharisees asked which of the seven husbands will be the husband of their common wife, and Jesus answered, (paraphrasing: 'Well, neither the risen males will be getting married, nor will the risen females be given in marriage in heaven.') and he didn't address the question of which of the seven marriages would be valid in heaven.

So, in the case of the woman with seven husbands, when they all get to heaven, all seven of the men will be wanting to spend some time with the woman. Every one of them will be her husband, and they will all have to share her attention [that is so....o...o.o.o. disrespectful - making a bunch of men share one woman's attention. lol., but I suppose it is no different than seven sons, having to share the attention of one mother.]. On earth, we call that Polyandry - one woman; multiple men, which is a type of Polygamy. The only thing that will be different is that there is no sex in heaven. They will all have to live in blissful, celibate, polygamous/polyandrous marriage.

The fact that Jesus did not tell the Pharisees which of the seven husbands would be the woman's husband, begs the question about whether the death of a spouse terminates a marriage. Most theologians quote Romans 7:2,3 " For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband. So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man."

But it is pure presumption to conclude from this text that the woman is no longer married when her husband dies. It says she is "loosed from the law of [her] husband". It does not say 'she is no longer married to her husband'. One does not logically follow from the other. If this widow remarries, she becomes a bigamist - but bigamy and polygamy and polyandry goes unpunished in the Bible. Just because God does not punish polygamy in the Bible, does not mean, that death terminates a marriage. [Note: Bigamy is illegal in the USA and the British commonwealth countries.]

When a Parent dies, they are still your parent, even though they are dead. When an uncle dies, he is still your uncle. When a son dies, the father-son relationship is not terminated. When Christ died, He was still our King, even though he was dead, and when he arose again, he took up his crown as King. If death does not terminate these relationships, then why should it terminate a Spousal relationship?

God likens death to sleep - it is temporary. So, if your spousal relationship is not terminated when they are asleep, then why would their death - which is temporary in the eyes of God - terminate the spousal relationship.

[Deut. 31:16 "And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold thou shalt sleep with thy fathers ..."]

But Wait! It gets worse.

How about the case of a large majority of Christian (Protestant and Catholic) men, who have high 'body counts' [to use the modern term]. They call it 'dating', which means: burger, fries, movie, [and then the euphemism] 'home run', and repeat many times and each iteration increases his 'body count' by one more. None of these 'relationships' involve a 'legal contract'. How do you explain all these? Which of these 'conquests' will be his in heaven? My answer is that each and every one is a 'marriage', because 'Sex is marriage'. True, they have a different title: Concubines, harlots, girlfriend with benefits etc. In the case: If the guy confesses his sin and repents and goes to heaven which of these females will belong to him? I answer: all of them. He will have to deal with all of them and all the multitude of consequences of his behavior - for eternity. What happened between him and all these females cannot be erased. The consequences of his actions will not be erased. He will have to deal with it - for eternity - and the consequences are not restricted to just between him and the female, but extend to all her family members too, and he will have to deal with that too - for eternity. In short, God will forgive, but consequences are eternal.


I counter that there is no 'legal relationship', because, according to the law, a person can't make a 'legal contract' with a 'minor', or a human who is not a 'legal person', and women were not recognized as a 'legal person' until 1929 in Canada, - before 1929, women were under the system called 'Coverture' - therefore no 'legal contract' is valid, therefore, Marriage is not a 'legal contract'.

[Evidence]: from Coverture - Wikipedia
"Coverture was a legal doctrine in English common law ... in which a married woman's legal existence was considered to be merged with that of her husband. Upon marriage, she had no independent legal existence of her own, in keeping with society's expectation that her husband was to provide for and protect her."

But, to be fair, upon re-reading it, I notice that you changed it from 'contract' to 'legal relationship', so maybe we are making some progress here. If you mean - by legal relationship - that civil government recognition of the 'relationship' will end, then, ok, I agree with that, but only because on the judgement day, all civil authority will be wiped out. There will be no civil government at that point. But if you take out the word 'legal' and just say that 'the marriage relationship ends'; then I disagree with that.
Yeah none of that works.
The bible does not say there's no sex, that's an implication people make from there not being marriage. But it is not stated anywhere in the bible. That's an assumption. It's a fairly valid assumption, but the bible simply doesn't say it. There may be some other different relationship status on the New Earth that allows for procreation, as I stated Isaiah 65:23 does state that the "seed of the blessed of the Lord" that is, the "descendants" of Jesus, those adopted in, won't give birth to children in calamity (it's a reversal of the curse placed on Eve in Genesis 3), and their offspring will be blessed.
It does however say they won't get married or be given in marriage as an answer to which of the 7 husbands she had on Earth would be her husband in the resurrection. What the Sadducees were attempting to do to Jesus is trick Him, getting Him to answer as YOU are claiming He was, that Jesus would say "all of them" and then declare His teachings false because He just advocated polyandry/polygamy, or tricking Him by having Him choose one, if she's still married to the first then the law has promoted polyandry by allowing her to keep marrying more, or if she's married to the last one then if death released her from the previous six marriages, why didn't it release the last one?
Jesus' answer suckerpunched them, they did not expect the answer of all marriages had been released and nobody will be married to her at all. They couldn't accuse Him of anything, it was an answer they did not expect, and the rationale of being "like the angels" comes from 1 Enoch, where angels were not given spouses because they could not die, therefore did not need to have children to replenish their number. I kind of question the rationale in 1 Enoch considering marriage was given before the fall, before Adam or Eve could die, but that's the only text connection to Jesus' answer that can be found, it cannot be found in the canon old testament at all.

However the reason why the wife is able to remarry as a widow, is because the first marriage, with her deceased former husband, is considered concluded.
Otherwise it'd be adultery to remarry at all, even if your previous spouse dies and you remain alive.
Because the bible not only allows for widows to remarry but in fact considers it law that a widow marry her husband's younger brothers in some cases such as the legal question the Sadducees brought up. This would not be the case if the woman was still considered married to the first husband that passed away.
If marrying a woman who's divorced (except in cases of the woman divorcing because of an adulterous husband) is considered adultery, which is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 19, then marrying a widow would also be adultery if she's considered still "joined" to her deceased husband. The only logical answer is.. death concludes the covenant. If the covenant can be concluded, then you can also conclude it by divorce, though doing so for any reason other than fornication results in adultery if they remarry.

as for use of the word covenant, it is because when God made both the old and new covenants, it was done as a marriage proposal. God uses the language of marriage and sex as euphemisms for His relationship to His people, particularly in Hosea, where Hosea's wife Gomer was used as an illustration for Israel. God "married" Israel, and they "played the harlot", going after other gods. Spiritual adultery in other words.
Marriage itself is a picture of the relationship between Christ and His Church according to Paul in Ephesians 5. So because God's relationship to us is not biological- we are not begotten sons of God, God has one and only begotten Son, but we are adopted by the new covenant, similarly the Church is the "bride of Christ" by the new covenant. That puts marriage in the light of a covenant relationship. Not a biological one.

When a human stomach - or a white blood cell - 'digests' something, for example, a carrot, or a dead sperm cell, all the proteins and DNA, is broken up into short fragments, which are incorporated into the cells of the host - the short fragments are recycled. We would not expect to see changes in phenotype because the short fragments are much shorter than 'genes', nevertheless, the host DNA is changed. The saying 'You are what you eat' is literally true. When you eat a carrot or a sperm cell, all the protein, and DNA, and carbohydrates inside it are broken up and become part of You. Yes, your DNA is merged with the DNA of what you eat - or otherwise exchange DNA with.

An example of longer DNA sequences being inserted into the host DNA occurs with virus's.

[Evidence] from Viral Integration and Consequences on Host Gene Expression - PMC (accessed: 10 March 2025)
"Abstract: Upon cell infection, some viruses integrate their genome [their DNA] into the host chromosome, either as part of their life cycle (such as retroviruses), or incidentally."

So, yes, exchanging DNA with another person, does change their DNA, and like I said before, if the wife is a oral sodomist and swallows, the husband's DNA will be incorporated into her DNA. They will - literally - become one - same as eating a carrot - no difference.
No that's not how it works at all. It's not the molecules being broken down and rebuilt into the person's own DNA as components.. but rather the genome sequence. That does not change. Viruses can do this, sure but having sex with someone does not restructure your genome to incorporate their genome into yours. When a virus splices its genome into somatic cell lines they infect it generally causes junk mutations that can cause cancer, and damage, enough of it accelerates to process of aging which is itself, your DNA replication process having errors, and eventually those errors pile up and the genes no longer code for functional proteins as well. You don't take on new phenotypes, your body simply ages and gets worse.

But you won't find that a woman has sex with a man and now suddenly her entire body's cells have become a mix of her own DNA hybridized with the man she slept with. That doesn't work.

In another poster's article what they were talking about is a mother having her son's cells cross the placental barrier, entering the mother's circulatory system and being deposited in her thyroid, so some of the cells in the thyroid were actually her son's cells, and had XY chromosomes.

This isn't what happens with ingestion, where the DNA is metabolized into much smaller molecules. These were intact cells that circulated in blood and found themselves depositing in the thyroid gland. Since they were likely embryonic stem cells they end up being signaled to differentiate into functional thyroid cells. This would be more akin to an organ transplant. If you were to have a kidney transplant the kidney you receive would have another person (the donor's) DNA, but would function as your kidney. It would not alter your own DNA. Sperm doesn't work this way, it's haploid (only having 1 set of Chromosomes) and cannot go through mitosis (cellular division to asexually reproduce copies of itself). Sperm either unites with an egg, and then they become a new sequence of DNA having diploid chromosomes and capable of mitosis.. or it dies, and is broken into constituent molecules, but that DNA sequence is not kept intact.
True. But think of a city full of the most Loving, Loyal, Righteous, tender-hearted, Virtuous, people that ever lived on earth. 'Single' also has huge benefits: a lot less emotional baggage, a lot less family responsibilities - you'll get to spend more time with God. The fact that the angels are capable of marriage, but choose singlehood, says a lot about the desirability of singlehood.
Actually, the opposite. Angels were not designed to marry. They didn't choose it, God simply did not give them spouses or designed them for marriage.
The fact that some angels chose a desire to get married, kinda refutes a common trope in answering the lack of marriage in eternity: that seeing God's glory will fulfill you so much you just won't even think about things like marriage or sex. These angels beheld God in all His glory in heaven, and chose to get married to human women anyway. They may have not known it was sin to do so, 1 Enoch says they knew, and still chose, but Enoch isn't canon, canon scripture does not say if they knew ahead of time that it would be sin for them to marry. But either way, they desired marriage and they had no spouses among themselves so they took human wives, despite beholding God in His glory.
Glory wasn't enough to obey God and not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that temptation was too much for Eve after hearing deceitful words. Eve would not even know the concept of being lied to, God was more merciful to her in light of this, placing responsibility on Satan for deceiving her. The punishment He gave to Eve was less than He gave to Adam, who knowingly chose to listen to his wife rather than God (Genesis 3:17 gives the reason of because Adam hearkened to his wife, Adam was not deceived, he made an informed choice, where Eve was deceived into believing a lie). This is I think a primary reason why marriage is ending, because it gives people a relationship that they may choose OVER God. But glory did not prevent that temptation, nor did it prevent temptation of the angels to take wives.
I do not know myself how the sin of fornication is prevented in the New Earth, but the bible does not give a good track record for "glory" being the how. Maybe we're like Barbie and Ken dolls anatomically, or maybe there's a new type of relationship that makes it not fornication.
Isaiah 65:23 "They will not labor in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; they [are] the seed of the blessed LORD, and their offspring with them."

I believe that there will be tons of orphan babies in the New Earth, that will need adults to take care of them, and I'm sure that God will be asking for adult volunteers and assigning the orphan babies to available adults. And where ever there are babies, the women will gather, and that woman and orphan baby will need support from other adults so there will be plenty of opportunities for 'single' people to form 'celibate friendship groups' to help raise an orphan baby. The New Earth will be a busy place.
That's not what the passage says, it says their offspring won't be born in calamity. It's a direct reversal of the curse on Eve, that her children would be born in calamity.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0