Hillsong And Brian Houston

[GoldenKingGaze]

Looking at Brian Houston and Hillsong, they are in error in some ways. Messages for the lost and evangelism are surely pleasing to God, but are amiss in that, the saved should know the power and the presence and the love of God. And in that, there comes an attraction to the unbelievers and a blessing, that holds salvation. Just as John Arnott proved up in Toronto.

Just as many new believers come to God in messages of holiness and power as in salvation messages. Also Brian let go of John and Carol and Randy Clark in the sweeping changes in 2000. That revival goes on without us in Sydney. And how I miss the power, the messages of love, and holiness, and deliverance, grace, burdens washing away, old concepts of God also washing away in a river of God's love... healings, youth ministry... I miss the big God, and don't like the big sound. And miss the vocal gifts...

Brian has humanized the church vision, over-simplifying it. Frank Houston did well, listening to God, and the vision God gave Frank, was part of righteousness, for himself and many others.

I believe Frank really turned to God.

Hillsong church vision is not enough, it does some damage.

Behind it still evident is the essence of the original vision. "Presenting Christ to all people in a contemporary way"...

I note that Hillsong cell groups are difficult to control and monitor. Leading to error in ministry.

I think that the way of love, agape, in which believers receive love and power and grace, prophecies, knowledge... as new and mature believers, is better. Rather than many new people coming to church and hearing about Jesus, invitationally, toward a commitment to Jesus in which they may receive Christ.

For the older members, then hear a salvation message. Not enough on holiness and the development.

So an appeal only to half.

There is not enough emphasis on holiness, love, Jesus blood, the vocal gifts, healing gifts and the laying on of hands, for impartation. To the loss of Hillsong church compared to the previous, Sydney Christian Life Centre.

I personally cannot worship to Hillsong music, with the volume, drums and guitars.

But it does reach people, and evangelizes. So surely there is mercy for Brian, and his team at Hillsong.

Do you fellows find Hillsong faultless or excellent or in error, or short of truly spiritual? I am interested in knowing. I plan to start a prayer group myself.

 

[stormdancer0]

There is not enough emphasis on holiness, love, Jesus blood, the vocal gifts, healing gifts and the laying on of hands, for impartation. To the loss of Hillsong church compared to the previous, Sydney Christian Life Centre.

I personally cannot worship to Hillsong music, with the volume, drums and guitars.

This is Hillsong, the contemporary Christian singers? I don't have a problem with it. There are different styles of worship, and as long as they give the glory to God, pick the one that suits you. Personally, I think the droning of some of the older hymns annoying. I honestly don't think God cares if we use drums and electric guitars, or organs. The Jewish nation used harps, tamborines, and danced, glorifying God.

Plus, the first non-scripture hymns (i.e. ones that didn't quote a psalm, etc.) were rejected as heresy. It's a matter of what moves your spirit to worship God.

But it does reach people, and evangelizes. So surely there is mercy for Brian, and his team at Hillsong.

Do you fellows find Hillsong faultless or excellent or in error, or short of truly spiritual? I am interested in knowing. I plan to start a prayer group myself.

I don't find anyone faultless. I believe they are worshiping the same God I am. I like their music. We sing some of it in church on Sunday mornings.

And I think God is the only one who can judge whether someone is "short of truly spiritual" because He is the only one who can see the spiritual state of someone.

 

[byhisstripes]

Looking at Brian Houston and Hillsong, they are in error in some ways. Messages for the lost and evangelism are surely pleasing to God, but are amiss in that, the saved should know the power and the presence and the love of God. And in that, there comes an attraction to the unbelievers and a blessing, that holds salvation. Just as John Arnott proved up in Toronto.

Just as many new believers come to God in messages of holiness and power as in salvation messages. Also Brian let go of John and Carol and Randy Clark in the sweeping changes in 2000. That revival goes on without us in Sydney. And how I miss the power, the messages of love, and holiness, and deliverance, grace, burdens washing away, old concepts of God also washing away in a river of God's love... healings, youth ministry... I miss the big God, and don't like the big sound. And miss the vocal gifts...

Brian has humanized the church vision, over-simplifying it. Frank Houston did well, listening to God, and the vision God gave Frank, was part of righteousness, for himself and many others.

I believe Frank really turned to God.

Hillsong church vision is not enough, it does some damage.

Behind it still evident is the essence of the original vision. "Presenting Christ to all people in a contemporary way"...

I note that Hillsong cell groups are difficult to control and monitor. Leading to error in ministry.

I think that the way of love, agape, in which believers receive love and power and grace, prophecies, knowledge... as new and mature believers, is better. Rather than many new people coming to church and hearing about Jesus, invitationally, toward a commitment to Jesus in which they may receive Christ.

For the older members, then hear a salvation message. Not enough on holiness and the development.

So an appeal only to half.

There is not enough emphasis on holiness, love, Jesus blood, the vocal gifts, healing gifts and the laying on of hands, for impartation. To the loss of Hillsong church compared to the previous, Sydney Christian Life Centre.

I personally cannot worship to Hillsong music, with the volume, drums and guitars.

But it does reach people, and evangelizes. So surely there is mercy for Brian, and his team at Hillsong.

Do you fellows find Hillsong faultless or excellent or in error, or short of truly spiritual? I am interested in knowing. I plan to start a prayer group myself.

Hello and welcome I guess I don't under stand how you can miss the big God(highlighted above) unless you have fallen away because He is still here awaiting for us to run to him, to have a relationship not religion with Him. I may have taken this wrong or misunderstood rather and if this is the case sorry.
Also I love Hillsong and so far unless once again Im missing something have heard or found no fault with them, and as Storm dancer said that is between God and them for God is the only one true judge, however I just want to say that yes we need to be open and use descernment here, but like I said I have heard nothing that conterdics the Word of God through the music.
As of the others you have mentioned I can't really say anything for or agains other than their expeirnce and revival of of God and the Spirits flow is again between them and God, but I have no idea how they are so really that is all I can say.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I can't but sit through such worship, 21st century Hillsong.

I never confidently crossed from Sydney Christian Life Centre to Hillsong, they seems to have ideas, culture, but less or little Spirit and power.

I was into and still need prophetic preaching and power.

 

[stormdancer0]

.

I was into and still need prophetic preaching and power.

You won't ever find much of that in a singing group. You receive power by spending time with Jesus, both alone and in worship with others. If you have a good, Spirit-filled church, that is where you can get the prophetic preaching. Few, if any, musical groups will fill that need.

I listen to Hillsong and others because it keeps my mind and thoughts on worshiping God. Anything that does that is great, in my opinion.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

I like their music myself. I dont demand that the music does everything including paint my kitchen. For what it is, it is very nice.

People used to wonder about 2nd Chapter of Acts, a very Godly group of vocalists in the old(er) days. I still think Mansion Builder is a great song.

 

[byhisstripes]

I can't but sit through such worship, 21st century Hillsong.

I never confidently crossed from Sydney Christian Life Centre to Hillsong, they seems to have ideas, culture, but less or little Spirit and power.

I was into and still need prophetic preaching and power.

being prophetic is a gift from the Holy Spirit, and the power comes from Jesus Christ so if you truely want more of it press in and draw closer to God through reading and studying the Bible and praying and asking for the gift, and maybe this gift isn't the one He has for you, maybe its toungues or interpretation or decernment or whatever it maybe, but all I can say is really seek God and ask him to fill you with the Holy Spirit and reveal the gift he has for you. I had spent endless hours praying for the gift of toungues I prayed so long and hard I fell asleep at the alter at camp many times and my counsoler carried me to the room and I woke up the next day in my dorm. It wasn't until years later that God told me my gift wasn't toungues He had given me the gift of decernment. (This is A. in my opinion and B. my experiance.)

As far as the powerless worship and Spirit, well Im not sure I can agree, Jesus is always please when his childern worship him, if we don't then He said the very rocks will cry out, and I don't want to be guilty of them crying out on my behalf. They clearly worship Jesus and that is all that matters in my book and Jesus' book. ( again my opinion)

 

[newtaste]

I've been at Hillsong for about 12 months. To let you know -

There is laying-on of hands for healing at the end of the Sunday night service at least every 3 weeks. A few weeks ago Brian explained the importance of tongues, and asked who needed prayer to enable them to talk in tongues and many people responded. There is a monthly Thursday night Healing service which includes the laying-on of hands and anointing with oil. There is a yearly Sunday anointing and healing service. So there is encouragement to receive the Holy Spirit.

I do find some of the messages a bit 'lite' with too many jokes, diversions that have nothing to do with the topic, and not enough content and interpretation. Pastor Robert Ferguson however has minimal jokes, never diverts off the topic and has content galore. He is a real blessing and it is a shame he is not used more at Hillsong services.

My Connect group includes a man who was at Hillsong at the start and has been a Christian for 60 years - he is very inspirational and loves Brian. He keeps the group from learning anything wrong.

 

[byhisstripes]

Alright Im thourghly confused are we talking about a church or the worship group/band? Well I guess it really doesn't matter. I first of all don't see anything wrong with what you have discribed as far as the anointing of oil the heal services or anything like that other than maybe they should do it more often? That again is my opinion, but here is what scriptures say and Im happy to give more if need be....

ANOINTING

Leviticus 8:12
12 He poured some of the anointing oil on Aaron's head and anointed him to consecrate him.

1 John 2:27
27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Psalm 23:5
5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows

Mark 6:13
13They drove out many demons and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them.

James 5:14
14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.

PRAISE AND WORSHIP

Exodus 23:25
25 Worship the LORD your God, and his blessing will be on your food and water. I will take away sickness from among you,

Psalm 147:10-12
10 His pleasure is not in the strength of the horse,
nor his delight in the legs of a man;
11 the LORD delights in those who fear him,
who put their hope in his unfailing love. 12 Extol the LORD, O Jerusalem;
praise your God, O Zion

Psalm 99:9
9 Exalt the LORD our God
and worship at his holy mountain,
for the LORD our God is holy.

Psalm 132:7
7 "Let us go to his dwelling place;
let us worship at his footstool-

John 4:24
24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Psalm 100:2
2 Worship the LORD with gladness;
come before him with joyful songs.

JUDGING

2 Timothy 4:8
8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

James 4:11-12
11Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

So as far as I can tell by scripture they are doing nothing that goes agains the Bible. So I guess I don't see the problem I guess it comes down to it that if you don't like it then don't go but that doesn't mean that you need to bash them either. Not only that the Bible talks about speaking against the leaders or His chosen, I can also go get that verse if you would like.

 

[newtaste]

I was referring to the Hillsong Church at Baulkham Hills, Sydney. The Hillsong 'band' sings at each service, although there are different singers and musicians at each service.

Yes, I don't see much wrong at Hillsong Church, except as I said some of the messages.

 

[byhisstripes]

So we are "bashing" the church not the band. OK....still not cool but I can respect decerning wright from wrong in the teaching of messages as the pastor is human and makes mistakes and sometimes we need that kind of dicernment (you know I really don't know how to spell that word LOL )

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I remember Robert Ferguson, and Jonathon Wilson who has gone to New Jersey. Before he left he gave me a word in prophecy that keeps me from giving up.

John 17: 17-25. Is about love for untity and sanctification, by truth and the chapter is about love, and after mentioning love being in them, it mentions Jesus being in us. There is an order there.

I read your posts, byhisstripes and newtaste... I will say that sometimes we need a foot up in the things of God, and a prophetic word, or word of knowledge, or the laying on of hands or the lot, helps us up. And when we have revival it is revival of all the giftings... and we pray for this. Jentzyn Franklyn is popular with Hillsong, and he is a revivalist, whose revival fell apart in a leadership dispute with Lila Terhune.

Hillsong joined Sydney Christian Life Centre, "SCLC", overtaking it, in 2000.

SCLC, had a weekly Sunday night anointing service. It went from 8.00 pm to 10.00 pm in which the pastors and ministry teams layed hands on people, everyone, once or twice, after a five minute message, with music.

People were laughing and receiving healing giftings, receiving words about the future, about their ministry, overcoming false beliefs, shaking as they received, falling to the floor.

The music team could stop and prophesy, about a healing to be done, or just give you a word, in front of the whole congregation, to an anonymous member.

The preacher would give words of knowedge in due season, pause from the stream of preaching and answer the secret questions of my heart.

The preaching was under the anointing. Isaiah 11:2. According to the vision God gave him when he sought God's face.

Many members moved in the gifts of the Spirit.

The worship team could be commanded by Jeff Beacham to "prophesy" and at one time played a tune from my mind, that was classical, and unusual for them.

There was a revival there from 97-99. Which Brian stopped.

The last thing Frank preached on was seeking God's face, and he personally began to lay hands on me and pray for imparting faith, obedience and authority.

Also in each service the pastor prayed as a righteous man for any request on paper, and marvels happened, even a brain dead man returning home well. And by these prayers, I was born again.

SCLC was partnered I think with Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship and St Louis Vineyard. Which had and still has revival going. Both Head pastors ministered at SCLC, to huge crowds.

They are big on a foot up. Randy Clarke from St Louis in a Catch The Fire conference testified to a powerful deliverance he was given in ministry they freed him for service. There were whole services dedicated to mass healings, deliverance, and impartation, and on how to receiving words of knowledge and heal the sick.

I think in 98 SCLC planted 50 churches.

In February 99 I was born again. With a guest preacher.

Guest preachers would sometimes come with a team, and lay hands on us and prophesy or give a word of knowledge. It was like they had been reading my mail, and the promises were encouraging.

When SCLC became Hillsong, they lost the vision, the head pastor, and the anointing services were shortened to more like 45 minutes, onces a month, with not much laying on of hands.

There is less on holiness, receiving love, impartation and giftings. It is to the side, special meetings.

They seem to be after new birthings, and they stay for 18 months before leaving church, I hear.

Churches which preach holiness keep 90% of the new born Christians for the long run.

 

[BlackSabb]

Frank Houston did well, listening to God, and the vision God gave Frank, was part of righteousness, for himself and many others.

I believe Frank really turned to God.

Hillsong church vision is not enough, it does some damage.

The Bible says clearly that no man should become a leader of a church that is not blameless before others. Frank Houston was a child molester. So, according to the Bible, he is disqualified to become a pastor or leader of the church. Here is but one article on the subject. There are scores of articles, and the fact is established that Frank Houston was a child molestor. Plain and simple.


http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/1979

Read the 7th paragraph.

No good therefore can come of anything he established. That includes CLC and Hillsong that came there after.

It is like a child born to a couple that are having an affair. The child is illegitimate. So is Frank Houston's CLC and Hillsong. If Frank Houston acted in accordance with the Bible, CLC and Hillsong would have never been established. What good can you expect to come from a church started by a man who was in defiance of the Bible in not one, but 3 ways?

1. Not blameless before others.

2. Being a leader of a church in defiance of Biblical commands.

3. Engaging in such gross sin, as in the words of the apostle Paul, that even the (majority) of the non believers don't engage in.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Frank Houston is in God's hands for discipline and revenge. God does know what to do.

Paul the apostle oversaw the stoning of Stephen the first martyr, and put people in prison for faith in Jesus.

Peter said to Jesus, "Get away from me Lord, I am a sinful man."

Frank repented from sin, really harmful sin. Paul and Peter were disciplined by God, God can manage that better than us.

Jephtha was conceived from adultery and became Israel's chief.

King David committed adultery and arranged a death, even of an officer, and God forgave disciplined and used him.

Mary was a prostitute and God used her. After repentance and cleansing in Jesus' blood.

I am certain Frank repented, was cleansed, and obeyed God, and was led into ministry. As the Jews said about Peter and John, if the move is not of God, like the rebellions they will fizzle out.

People were healed, received gifts like prophecy and tongues, repented, came to know Jesus, and rose up to plant churches.

How can I be a fundamentalist?

Just briefly, Frank Houston wasn't the first Sydney Pentecostal pastor, there was Pastors Armstrong and Gordon Gibbs, whose names are fairing well...

 

[BlackSabb]

Frank Houston is in God's hands for discipline and revenge. God does know what to do.

Paul the apostle oversaw the stoning of Stephen the first martyr, and put people in prison for faith in Jesus.

Peter said to Jesus, "Get away from me Lord, I am a sinful man."

Frank repented from sin, really harmful sin. Paul and Peter were disciplined by God, God can manage that better than us.

Jephtha was conceived from adultery and became Israel's chief.

King David committed adultery and arranged a death, even of an officer, and God forgave disciplined and used him.

Mary was a prostitute and God used her. After repentance and cleansing in Jesus' blood.

I am certain Frank repented, was cleansed, and obeyed God, and was led into ministry. As the Jews said about Peter and John, if the move is not of God, like the rebellions they will fizzle out.

People were healed, received gifts like prophecy and tongues, repented, came to know Jesus, and rose up to plant churches.

How can I be a fundamentalist?

Those are all very pretty and eloquent words. But it does not make any difference if Frank Houston "repented" or not. The Bible is clear. Any leader of a church has to be blameless before others. That means no major incriminating sins to his name. Like a criminal record, sexual crimes etc.

Jesus says to build your house upon a solid foundation. If you build your house on the sand, it will crumble. The Bible also says to examine yourself. Frank Houston had no excuse. Studying the Bible to be a Pastor, he should have known that he was automatically disqualified from leadership. He failed to examine himself. Therefore, as Frank Houston's CLC was started on an unBiblical foundation because the leader failed to examine himself, it is built on the sand.

Once you're proven guilty of child molestation, you can never lead a church congregation, let alone start a church of your own. That's what the Bible says, don't argue it.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Jesus says to build your house upon a solid foundation. If you build your house on the sand, it will crumble. The Bible also says to examine yourself. Frank Houston had no excuse. Studying the Bible to be a Pastor, he should have known that he was automatically disqualified from leadership.

Well the verses about building on sand mean, digging deep, not into your conscience or reputation, but into God's word, no philosophy like Marx or Descartes...

I am not a fundamentalist for the above reasons. Jephtha, David, Mary, Peter, Saul of Tarsus, and I could mention Moses, who killed an Egyptian, of his own ideas.

Paul wrote, to Timothy about the reputation of an overseer. Himself not fundamentally according his own teaching, himself rebuking Peter for hypocrisy, with the Jews and separate eating.

Surely this was only for Timothy who needed a little wine for his nerves, or just for his region, or the situation in Greece. Or before the angry self righteous intimidating mobs of pagans. Or before Roman law. Something typical of non fundamentalism. Consider the time, place, culture Paul was familiar with, that we do not know.

Catholics argue along these lines with the right to let go of an abandoning unbelieving wife.

Also from the Gospel, "If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, better to lose one eye, than the person to be thrown into Hell." How many people actually do this? Or anything like it? Find and follow the Spirit of the Living God, or follow fundamentalism?

 

[lilmissmontana]

Good morning

I've been trying with everything I have since this thread began to understand it's purpose. No judgement on that. I just don't understand ... that's all.

I thought I'd just give my personal take on it all ... and that would be my take on discernment. I believe the difference between judgement and discernment is the therefore placed on the discernment. It's one thing to discern the wrongdoing in things and quite another to say therefore he/she should be this/that ... jmo

The main point in my posting is the following:

Tyrus ... satan ... used 22 times in the bible ... Hebrew Strong's number 6865 ... means rock ... (Petra - feminine) unmoveable

verse example

Zechariah 9:3,4

And Tyrus did build herself a stronghold, and
heaped up silver as the dust, and fine gold as
the mire of the streets.
Behold, the Lord will cast her out, and he will
smite her power in the sea: and she shall be
devoured with fire.

Matthew 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,
and upon this rock I will build my church; and
the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Peter ... man ... used 157 times ... Greek Strong's number 4074 ... means a piece of the rock ... Petros ... masculine ... moveable

rock ... Jesus ... used 13 times ... Greek Strong's 4073 ... mass rock ... Petra ... feminine ... unmoveable

The Lord gave me this knoledge a couple hours ago ... when that happens I wait for a place that looks like the knowledge belongs there ... in light of the sand ... I figured this must be the place. I'm one who likes to see scripture references, so among other things, that was satisfied for me here.

God bless



​

 

[stormdancer0]

I think if God can reform and anoint a murderer like Saul, changing him into one of the most (if not THE most) prolific writer and evangelist ever, He can reform and anoint a child molester. In our eyes, a child molester is worse than a liar or a cheat. In God's eyes, it is all sin, and it all leads to death without His forgiveness.

If we only allow people who are "blameless before others" to run the church, there would be no church. We are blameless only in that Jesus has forgiven our sins and taken the blame for us. You and I are no more blameless than this man is. We are no better and no worse than he is in God's eyes. We have all sinned and fallen short. We are all blameless in God's sight if we are truly washed in the blood of His Son. If we aren't Christian, we bear the full brunt of the blame for our sins.

As Jesus said, He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.

Condemning this man because of past sin is putting yourself in the place of God. It is HIS job, and His job alone, to judge both the sin and the genuineness of repentance. Also, while we ARE to judge and discern our brother's sins (i.e. other Christians) for the sake of their souls, this man was NOT a professing Christian when he committed the molestation. When he becomes a Christian, all that is supposed to be washed away. If our Lord declares a sin forgiven, how arrogant it would be of us to say the sin is unforgivable.

Of course, God gave us the intelligence to protect what is ours. I would not let this man babysit my kids, Godly or not. But if he's bringing so many people to Christ, perhaps he truly has changed. Maybe not. But that's not my place to judge the level of his repentance. If he were to come and speak at my church, then I would be given discernment as to whether he is Godly. Seeing him or hearing him on video/audio would be helpful. But just hearing stories, I don't think any of us can judge.

So, along those lines, has anyone ever gone to listen to this man? Or seen him in a video or heard him in an audio program? If so, what are your feelings?


GoldenKing wrote

Mary was a prostitute and God used her. After repentance and cleansing in Jesus' blood.

Where, exactly, does it say in scripture that Mary was a prostitute? That is a myth of the Catholic church (no church-bashing, just stating fact). It only says she was delivered from seven demons. (I think that number is right.)

 

[the.Sheepdog]

I tend to agree with MisMontana here in that I really wonder what the purpose of this thread really is.

It certainly doesnt edify anything or praise God. I think the OP and some others should please remember that this forum is pretty much consecrated to fellowship and praise, and contentious bits like this really dont serve the body here.

This is a no debate forum.

No mod hat from me, just an observation.

 

[byhisstripes]

I remember Robert Ferguson, and Jonathon Wilson who has gone to New Jersey. Before he left he gave me a word in prophecy that keeps me from giving up.

John 17: 17-25. Is about love for untity and sanctification, by truth and the chapter is about love, and after mentioning love being in them, it mentions Jesus being in us. There is an order there.
I read your posts, byhisstripes and newtaste... I will say that sometimes we need a foot up in the things of God, and a prophetic word, or word of knowledge, or the laying on of hands or the lot, helps us up. And when we have revival it is revival of all the giftings... and we pray for this. Jentzyn Franklyn is popular with Hillsong, and he is a revivalist, whose revival fell apart in a leadership dispute with Lila Terhune.
Ok so on the part of the "we need a foot up in the things of God, and a prophetic workd or a word of knowledge" well I have posted on this in previouse posts that the gift of prophecy is not for everyone, so this time Im going to back it up with scripture....1 Corinthians 12:8-11

8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy,...
So demanding that they prophecy is not up to us, if we all had the same gift than what good are we? If we were all an eye than where would the body go if we were all the feet how could we spread the good news or even reach out and touch others? I hope that makes sence we have these gifts to bring balance and they are all important.
Hillsong joined Sydney Christian Life Centre, "SCLC", overtaking it, in 2000.

SCLC, had a weekly Sunday night anointing service. It went from 8.00 pm to 10.00 pm in which the pastors and ministry teams layed hands on people, everyone, once or twice, after a five minute message, with music.

People were laughing and receiving healing giftings, receiving words about the future, about their ministry, overcoming false beliefs, shaking as they received, falling to the floor.
The music team could stop and prophesy, about a healing to be done, or just give you a word, in front of the whole congregation, to an anonymous member.
Not if they don't have the gift of prophecy, only if the Spirit moves them to.
The preacher would give words of knowedge in due season, pause from the stream of preaching and answer the secret questions of my heart.

The preaching was under the anointing. Isaiah 11:2. According to the vision God gave him when he sought God's face.
Many members moved in the gifts of the Spirit.
The worship team could be commanded by Jeff Beacham to "prophesy" and at one time played a tune from my mind, that was classical, and unusual for them.
No you can't just command someone to prophesy, that again comes from the Spirit. Now if the Spirit was talking to Jeff and said that there was a member whom had a word to give than that would be acceptable, but Jeff can't just demand (command) that the worship team prophesy.

There was a revival there from 97-99. Which Brian stopped.
The last thing Frank preached on was seeking God's face, and he personally began to lay hands on me and pray for imparting faith, obedience and authority.
Also in each service the pastor prayed as a righteous man for any request on paper, and marvels happened, even a brain dead man returning home well. And by these prayers, I was born again.

SCLC was partnered I think with Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship and St Louis Vineyard. Which had and still has revival going. Both Head pastors ministered at SCLC, to huge crowds.

They are big on a foot up. Randy Clarke from St Louis in a Catch The Fire conference testified to a powerful deliverance he was given in ministry they freed him for service. There were whole services dedicated to mass healings, deliverance, and impartation, and on how to receiving words of knowledge and heal the sick.

I think in 98 SCLC planted 50 churches. In February 99 I was born again. With a guest preacher.
Praise God! Im happy to hear that you were born again that is an awsome testimony, see God meets you were you are at and it doesn't take on particular person just a willing repentive heart and God

Guest preachers would sometimes come with a team, and lay hands on us and prophesy or give a word of knowledge. It was like they had been reading my mail, and the promises were encouraging.

When SCLC became Hillsong, they lost the vision, the head pastor, and the anointing services were shortened to more like 45 minutes, onces a month, with not much laying on of hands.

There is less on holiness, receiving love, impartation and giftings. It is to the side, special meetings.

They seem to be after new birthings, and they stay for 18 months before leaving church, I hear.
Can't really say I agree or disagree as I know nothing on this and not really sure what to say and don't want to lead anyone in the wrong direction so Im just going to leave this part as it is, it all sounds ok to me but as I said Im just not sure.
Churches which preach holiness keep 90% of the new born Christians for the long run.

The Bible says clearly that no man should become a leader of a church that is not blameless before others. Frank Houston was a child molester. So, according to the Bible, he is disqualified to become a pastor or leader of the church. Here is but one article on the subject. There are scores of articles, and the fact is established that Frank Houston was a child molestor. Plain and simple.
So does that mean that we should throw Kind David out because not only did he sleep with a married women over lust but then she became pregnant and he had her husband killed to cover it up. He fell on his face before God and begged for forgivness, there was consequences to his sin but God restored him and he even became the man after Gods own heart.
And can't forget about the guy who killed Christians because he thought he was doing (Im not sure but I think) the will of God and he became one of the most important men in the Bible I believe on of the deciples even.
See all he wants is a call to repentance and a true repentive heart. Yes there will be coniquences for what we do or did but when we ask for forgiveness Jesus blood was shed and grace was given and he remembers no more so I can't really agree this that statment. Sorry.

http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/1979

Read the 7th paragraph.

No good therefore can come of anything he established. That includes CLC and Hillsong that came there after.
So God is not a God of second chances? Once we mess up its over? Pretty sure thats not my God. He can use anyone whom is willing to be used by him, he needs people who are ready and willing no matter the cost and no one is perfect so Im sure in that case you have done things that were wrong or what ever so does that mean your done? Pretty sure not, and how can you say that? God can turn anything and use it for His glory. Also sin is sin in Gods eyes rather you fall away or you lie or murder or whatever there is no level of sin its just sin, so whatever they did that you think is so horrible is no wrose than the things you and I have done and thats what we need to keep in mind.

It is like a child born to a couple that are having an affair. The child is illegitimate. So is Frank Houston's CLC and Hillsong. If Frank Houston acted in accordance with the Bible, CLC and Hillsong would have never been established. What good can you expect to come from a church started by a man who was in defiance of the Bible in not one, but 3 ways?
Ok this part of the post sort of in a nice way and please don't take it wrong but makes me mad! What part of this we are not to judge are 'we' (you) not getting here? So you can forgive sin? You know if he repented or not? you know the intent and purness of his hear? I DON'T THINK SO. Don't mean to use caps in an angry tone but come on. Im so baffled at this I don't even know what to say in response to the rest of it other than I will be in prayer for you. We shouldn't judge so harshly against others.

1. Not blameless before others.
2. Being a leader of a church in defiance of Biblical commands.
3. Engaging in such gross sin, as in the words of the apostle Paul, that even the (majority) of the non believers don't engage in.

Those are all very pretty and eloquent words. But it does not make any difference if Frank Houston "repented" or not. The Bible is clear. Any leader of a church has to be blameless before others. That means no major incriminating sins to his name. Like a criminal record, sexual crimes etc.
So does that mean that we should throw Kind David out because not only did he sleep with a married women over lust but then she became pregnant and he had her husband killed to cover it up. He fell on his face before God and begged for forgivness, there was consequences to his sin but God restored him and he even became the man after Gods own heart.
And can't forget about the guy who killed Christians because he thought he was doing (Im not sure but I think) the will of God and he became one of the most important men in the Bible I believe on of the deciples even.
See all he wants is a call to repentance and a true repentive heart. Yes there will be coniquences for what we do or did but when we ask for forgiveness Jesus blood was shed and grace was given and he remembers no more so I can't really agree this that statment. Sorry.

Jesus says to build your house upon a solid foundation. If you build your house on the sand, it will crumble. The Bible also says to examine yourself. Frank Houston had no excuse. Studying the Bible to be a Pastor, he should have known that he was automatically disqualified from leadership. He failed to examine himself. Therefore, as Frank Houston's CLC was started on an unBiblical foundation because the leader failed to examine himself, it is built on the sand.
(as I mentioned above)
So God is not a God of second chances? Once we mess up its over? Pretty sure thats not my God. He can use anyone whom is willing to be used by him, he needs people who are ready and willing no matter the cost and no one is perfect so Im sure in that case you have done things that were wrong or what ever so does that mean your done? Pretty sure not, and how can you say that? God can turn anything and use it for His glory. Also sin is sin in Gods eyes rather you fall away or you lie or murder or whatever there is no level of sin its just sin, so whatever they did that you think is so horrible is no wrose than the things you and I have done and thats what we need to keep in mind.

Once you're proven guilty of child molestation, you can never lead a church congregation, let alone start a church of your own. That's what the Bible says, don't argue it.

Well I believe God decides this not man, once again King David commited adultry and killed a man and he still became king and a man after Gods own heart. And oh look here is another what about the deciple who Killed Christians before God got a hold of him? And Im sure there are others but I think you get my drift, why are you so harsh to judge? Once again sin is sin rather you murder, lie, steal, lust whatever its sin so if thats the thought you have on this than what about you and I? HMMMMM???? Good question to ponder huh. I know a man who spent most of his life in prison and has one of the greatest ministries out there so maybe we should reevaluate this.

Well the verses about building on sand mean, digging deep, not into your conscience or reputation, but into God's word, no philosophy like Marx or Descartes...
Would comment but not sure where this is headed or what to say so we will just leave it for now and maybe someone else can takle this one.

I am not a fundamentalist for the above reasons. Jephtha, David, Mary, Peter, Saul of Tarsus, and I could mention Moses, who killed an Egyptian, of his own ideas.

Paul wrote, to Timothy about the reputation of an overseer. Himself not fundamentally according his own teaching, himself rebuking Peter for hypocrisy, with the Jews and separate eating.

Surely this was only for Timothy who needed a little wine for his nerves, or just for his region, or the situation in Greece. Or before the angry self righteous intimidating mobs of pagans. Or before Roman law. Something typical of non fundamentalism. Consider the time, place, culture Paul was familiar with, that we do not know.

Catholics argue along these lines with the right to let go of an abandoning unbelieving wife.
All I know or in my opinion how ever you choose to see it, is that God don't care about fundamentalism or non fundamentalism or catholic or pentecostle or luthern or any other religion, what he cares about are the people, and rather they serve him have a willing heart and want to be used of him. Religions are man made not God made and there is no religions listed on the 12 gates just the 12 tribes. He cares about the lost and wants non to perish, He wants us to worship Him and love Him and obey Him and have a pure heart and be blameless before Him, He knows we are not perfect but He also knows when we pretend to repent and when we are real and He is looking for real!

Also from the Gospel, "If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, better to lose one eye, than the person to be thrown into Hell." How many people actually do this? Or anything like it? Find and follow the Spirit of the Living God, or follow fundamentalism?