High IQ Christians

[ViaCrucis]

I feel it should be pointed out that "IQ" isn't quite real. Or rather, scoring high on an IQ test is not a proper measurement of intelligence, just as scoring low on an IQ test isn't.

And the problem with the way we treat IQ scores is that we act as though some people are just innately more intelligent than others. A position that I've always had an issue with as it ignores environmental factors as well as the fact that some people are drawn to different topics of interest. Someone may a great deal of competence, knowledge, and exercise a great deal of intelligence with one topic, but may be entirely ignorant of another topic. That lack of knowledge and competence in certain subjects does not render a person unintelligent.

Even further, since our brains are all wired slightly differently, we may find that one person has difficulty in one area of knowledge, but finds another area much easier. For example, I have always struggled with math. I can learn math, obviously, but it's a struggle.

I've studied a lot of history, so I know a lot about history (but I'm also always aware that there is more that I don't know than I know); but I don't think that makes me smarter than someone who hasn't studied much history. It just means that I've learned through study. By the same token, I know nearly nothing about automobiles, open up a car to let me look at the engine and I can find the radiator tank, figure out how to check the oil, and then everything else looks like a bunch of mangled metal that makes zero sense to me. I don't think my lack of knowledge about cars makes me dumb, it just makes me ignorant about cars.

IQ measurement is a pretty outdated idea, a left-over from some pretty awful racialized pseudo-science of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

The abbreviated version of this post: High IQ scores only measure how well one can score on an IQ test, not as a valid metric of real intelligence.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[mama2one]

always thought my husband was intelligent

he was downsized out of a job & ended up in R & D creating new products for another company
totally different job than his college major

 

[mama2one]

.

 

[timf]

I am glad your husband was able to get another job hopefully one that challenges him and he can find satisfaction in.

One of the things college is good at is feeding a sense of pride. This often becomes an impenetrable barrier to the truth of God's word.

Mensa isn't the group it was 40 years ago. I think it simply is reflective of the larger changes in society.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I joined Mensa over 40 years ago. Over the years I have also hosted a SIG (special interest group in Mensa) for bible study in the town that I lived in. I rejoined Mensa last year and found that the group in general was much less tolerant of Christianity.

I suspect that as colleges transitioned into temples of the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular), their influence would be disproportionately applied to those with higher IQs. I suspect a change over the years in the collegiate environment such that a Christian would first become cautious about declaring his faith until there was pressure to publicly renounce it. I saw one student with a T shirt declaring “Recovering Christian”.

Charles Murray (the guy who wrote The Bell Curve about IQ) observed that at the start of the 20th century IQ was fairly randomly distributed. Farmers, factory workers, shop keepers, and housewives all had fair representation. By the end of the century the economy had changed such that there were incentives for those with high IQs to be drawn to college.

I would like to think that many with a high IQ may have resisted the collegiate call to abandon their Christian faith and may even have grown in it. I thought to start this thread to see if there was enough interest to sustain it.

Subjects that might be worth exploring;

The difference between wisdom and intelligence
Aspergers and high IQ
Are faith and a high IQ mutually exclusive
Does IQ cause difficulty in a denominational world
Does IQ mean having answers or questions
How does Christian faith moderate or influence IQ

However, subjects do not have to be limited to IQ.

Paul wrote something. You can have a high IQ, but if you don't have love, you got nothin.

 

[Torah Keeper]

I didn't join Mensa because it doesn't interest me. I'm 145. I also qualify to be a codebreaker. But I don't want to do that.

There are intelligent people who pursue a career in a nerdy field because they want others to think they are smart. They barely qualify(or they don't, but get the job by other ways). They love to look down on the ignorant peasants. It's a pride thing.

There are intelligent people who just love nerdy stuff and they feel at home at their job even if no one else cares. Good for them.

There are intelligent people who enjoy doing things besides science and math. Like me.

Colleges have certainly become much more secular. It's ironic since so many colleges were founded by Christians. Sort of like christianforums.com.

 

[St. Helens]

To me it's meaningless. I scored very high on those tests and yet I don't feel that smart. It just says I know how to take tests. So I agree the tests don't tell the full picture on a person's capabilities. Wisdom as defined in scripture is more meaningful.

 

[mama2one]

.

 

[timf]

There are intelligent people who pursue a career in a nerdy field because they want others to think they are smart. They barely qualify(or they don't, but get the job by other ways). They love to look down on the ignorant peasants. It's a pride thing.

I am not sure what experiences you may have had that led you to conclude the "nerdy" people are so arrogant. I have found that many pursue jobs that allow them some isolation as a high level of social interaction can be draining.

When I was in the Army, I really enjoy latrine duty because almost everyone left you alone.

 

[timf]

Wisdom as defined in scripture is more meaningful.

I agree. What is sad is that so few avail themselves of what is freely offered.

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

I have always thought that when a person who is not very intelligent has wisdom, it is often called "common sense". Sadly, I have found it to be not that common.

When I stared this thread (on a Christian forum), I had not anticipated that large number of people would feel compelled to chastised the intelligent for being arrogant and prideful.

Contributing to creating such a hostile environment is hurtful and works to make sure that the one in fifty who might have an interest in posting about the subject are driven off for fear that they would also be attacked.

 

[Kettriken]

Frequently people mention organizations like Mensa or colleges that have become more secular over the years or more hostile to Christianity, perhaps to theism in general. The flip side of this is the rise of popular Christian institutes of higher learning, some accredited colleges and some not. Seems like a feedback loop to me.

 

[timf]

Mensa was always supposed to be secular. I do not think it could get "more secular". However, the members of Mensa I think have come to reflect the population in general which is less Christian and increasingly anti-Christian.

The role colleges have played in this is also an interesting aspect. Charles Murray in the Bell Curve describes a period post WWII to the 90s where collegiate emphasis was more on IQ. Prior to the war colleges, while having some minimum standards, were primarily where the elite would meet marriage prospects.

Since the 90s colleges, while still maintaining some vocational training (law, medicine, engineering) have more and more become institutions of social engineering and propaganda.

I see Christian "higher education" as ultimately unsuccessful for the same reason the Christian contemporary music will ultimately fail. One cannot imitate the world and still retain a Christian character.

Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

 

[Chips]

A club for high IQ Christians interests me. I've found that many church members and leaders seem to be deeply suspicious of and even hostile toward people who are well educated. Some of the comments in this thread illustrate that tendency quite well. Thus, in Christian surroundings, there is a sense that one should be ashamed of being educated/intelligent, and be even more profoundly ashamed if one is an educated/intelligent female. So it would be nice to have a group of Christians where one was not ostracized for having a high IQ. Sadly, it does not appear that this thread is that place.

 

[timf]

It was my hope that a Christian forum would find those more accepting. Sadly, it seems that, like the larger world, some forum members are unable to resist saying things unkind.

It was then my hope that ill will might be transitory and that if those interested would persevere, that an encouraging exchange might be established.

This also seems not to have been the case. All I can suggest is that if there are any that would wish to communicate, but not expose themselves to the "slings and arrows of outrageous comments" that they send me a PM.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It was my hope that a Christian forum would find those more accepting. Sadly, it seems that, like the larger world, some forum members are unable to resist saying things unkind.

It was then my hope that ill will might be transitory and that if those interested would persevere, that an encouraging exchange might be established.

This also seems not to have been the case. All I can suggest is that if there are any that would wish to communicate, but not expose themselves to the "slings and arrows of outrageous comments" that they send me a PM.

It's a sad fact that many people don't value education or IQ. While I wish I could do something to change this mindset for the better, it's the unfortunate world we live in.

 

[mama2one]

It's a sad fact that many people don't value education or IQ.

depends on the person

one of my siblings & their spouse both have a Master's
they receive higher pay due to Master's....one gets 6 figures, not sure on other

I took some graduate level courses but they are SO expensive; didn't know what to do for a living so didn't make sense to continue
sahm now so best I didn't waste the money

 

[2PhiloVoid]

depends on the person

one of my siblings & their spouse both have a Master's degree

I took some graduate level courses but they are SO expensive plus was divided on what to do
didn't find graduate level any harder than undergrad classes & was getting As

You're right, it does depend on the person, M2M, and education is expensive, even unneccessarily so, I think.

The thing is, in my previous post, I was making an insinuation about how a number of people specifically eschew 'secular' education because of they think such education is morally and spiritually debilitating. They think its presence affects society for the worse, so they choose to forgo it altogether and verbally work against it.

I hope folks don't read into what I've said and get the wrong impression. It wasn't my intention to imply that sensible folks, such as yourself, somehow fail to show they value education if they don't achieve a degree.

No, I'm simply stating that a number of people, even Christians, don't value education or the increasing of their IQ--i.e. of the mind that God has given them--because they are suspicious of everything the secular establishment has put into place over the last few hundred years. I think it need not be this way, and this is my main point. It's a matter of attitude towards education rather than a matter of attainment.

Peace!

 

[mama2one]

I had just finished my Bachelor's degree when I met husband to be; he said I was the first girl he dated with a college degree

we both took an IQ test & he's only 4 points higher so we're close intellectually
however, I think he's way smarter than me as he's in R&D & creates new products

our young teen is already planning on going to college to get a good job
last yr she learned about jobs/careers & knows many require college

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I had just finished my Bachelor's degree when I met husband to be; he said I was the first girl he dated with a college degree

we both took an IQ test & he's only 4 points higher so we're close intellectually
however, I think he's way smarter than me as he's in R&D & creates new products

our young teen is already planning on going to college to get a good job
last yr she learned about jobs/careers & knows many require college

It sounds like you and him are a good match then, and your child is getting some good direction from you.

 

[Quasiblogo]

I am related to Mr Average I guess. I am not a quick learner in that I think much about multiple variables. But once I collect and analyze, I am far above average in finding applicability. This once in a while enables me to come up with some out-of-box approaches.

I once compiled data for the reporting by an insurance company to federal and state regulators. This was done by downloading data from transaction files from AS400 to Excel spreadsheets. The files were so large that numerous duplicate lines would show, making it hard to delete out the extraneous by even using Microsoft Access or Excel VLookup. I especially realized something was awry when I read in an iSeries industry magazine that downloading from AS400 to Excel was no advisable for annuity contracts.

Not being able to learn VLookup or Access in time to meet regulator deadlines, I pondered that one column of the download files had the numeric policy numbers. I inserted four additional columns to the download spreadsheets. Then, for these columns, going from right to left, created simple arithmetic calculations to manipulate the policy numbers. My intention was to try to come up with a final calculation that would come yield the same fixed value for each duplicate policy line, like zero. I came up with the desired unique value, but to my surprise, it was not zero: it was resulting scramble of characters that one gets by dividing by zero.

So I was able to sort the rows to capture the divide-by-zero “numbers” and then delete them out—file acceptable for reporting.

On the side, I edited out the privacy stuff and forwarded a sample spreadsheet to my help desk for consideration as a proposed workaround tool. They liked it so much that they forwarded it to the Excel folks. The Excel team liked it a lot but said I could have used VLookup. True, but…

I was shocked by the solution; it allowed me to keep my job. I think this was the first time I truly recognized that our human gifts have a divine origin.

It seems that intelligence is good if we can still be surprised and in awe of how God can use us, even in secular things.