God's beautiful creation

[Zceptre]

Exactly.

 

[roman2819]

Why would you expect a crocodile to become a Komodo?

Do you believe that evolution makes such a claim?

If evolution is true, then anything is possible isn't it ? I was conjecturing that crocodile became smaller salamander so they could climb trees and venture deeper into forests, and later evolved into lizards so they could crawl into buildings (another conjecture).

I started to read some articles on the website Evolution 101. The first question I have is: It says humans and other species are descended or transformed from tetrapod., which would mean that evolution implies that God did not create humans, and the human species is transformed from tetrapod.

What are your comments? 'River Jordan' believe it happen or is possible.

 

[roman2819]

If that's what you read, then you really did not understand what was written.

If you have nothing better to explain besides repeating the abovementioned at least half a dozen times, then read something useful here:

The Bible Makes Accurate Scientific Statements

The Bible is not a book of science but when it makes scientific statements on several occasions, it is surprisingly accurate. For instance, the Scriptures predicted that the earth was round even before science confirmed it. Isaiah 40:22: “He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy and spreads them out like a tent to live in; the word “circle” implies that the earth is round. The prophet Isaiah said this about 700 BC. At that time, people believed that the earth was flat, or they would fall off the surface into space if it was round; back then, no one understood gravity, and sailors were afraid to reach the edge of the sea. In 340 BC, the famous Greek thinker Aristotle wrote a book, On the Heavens, where he gave reasons to support the theory that the earth was shaped like a sphere. Later, more evidence would confirm it. In the twentieth century, aerial photographs showed the earth to be round, but the Bible had said it well ahead of time.

The Scriptures also say the earth is suspended upon nothing. “He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing” [Job 26:7]. In those days, people had little or no clues about the universe. The Greeks believed that the earth was held in space by one of their gods, Atlas. Gradually, thinkers like Ptolemy, Copernicus and Galileo asserted that the earth, like the other planets, might be suspended upon nothing. Science would confirm this later, but not before the Bible had said it much earlier.

The Word of God has been consistently correct on numerous occasions, not just a couple of times. The Lord told Abraham that his descendants would be as many as the number of stars in the sky, if indeed he can count them [Genesis 15:5]. Early astronomers used to believe that they can count the stars, but later, they realized that there are billions of them in the galaxies – beyond our ability to even give a close estimate.

When God created the earth, He said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear” [Genesis 1:9]. It means that at the beginning, the land mass was together. Today, there is geological evidence to substantiate this theory: Same kinds of plants and animal fossils on different continents show that they used to exist on the same land. Geologists or scientists believe that only one supercontinent used to exist, which later became separated into the land masses that we see today. Now, on the map, we can observe that the eastern coastlines of the Americas run almost parallel to the western shores of Europe and Africa. Did they used to be joined together but became separated later?

The Bible provides clues about how the supercontinent was broken up by the flood. During Noah’s time, the waters poured out from the deep of the earth and the floodgates of heavens opened, upon which the earth became submerged. After the water had covered the earth for about a hundred and twenty days, God altered the terrain of the earth. He broke up the supercontinent and oceans were formed as water filled the void between the lands. He created valleys and gorges, and the water flowed into these channels ….. Today, the coastlines on eastern side of American continents run almost ‘parallel’ to the western coast of western Europe and Africa. And fossils and fauna on different continents suggest they were once one land mass - which is the basis of Geology 101.

[Job 38:35]: “Do you send the lightning bolts on their way? Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’?” predicts the use of electricity to transmit signals and messages. When the Bible was written, the word “electricity” did not exist, obviously, and “lightning” referred to raw electric power from nature. Several millenniums later, scientists would be able to harness electricity for use in lighting, telephones and many other ways that we see today. Now, we are indeed using electricity to speak and send messages and images over telephones, mobile phones, radios, televisions, computers, satellites and other communication equipment. In Job’s time, when lighting was provided by fire, no one would dream of using electricity, let alone run away from streaks of lightning. And the telephone was invented more than two millenniums later in 1876, but the Bible alluded to it well ahead of time. Of course, Job did not know about electricity, and he would not be thinking about telephones, televisions and sophisticated instruments. However, inspired by God, he spoke about a technology that will materialize far beyond his time. Today, satellites send messages across the galaxy and spacecraft transmit images from Mars back to earth. We use mobile phones to communicate daily. Job’s words were more than just a scientific prediction; he was speaking about a way of life.

Some argue that the Scriptures may be figurative about science and technology, but whether literal or otherwise, the Book has been consistently correct in many claims – which is a good reason to take it seriously. It is always possible to think of reasons to be critical of the Scriptures. But the fact is there are sufficient or even strong reasons to believe that it is inspired by God, if we do not deliberately choose to ignore the history and scientific facts that it contains. The Bible also spoke of prophecies that have come to pass, which we will consider soon.

Adapted from 'Understanding Prayer, Faith and God's will'.

 

[Shemjaza]

If evolution is true, then anything is possible isn't it ? I was conjecturing that crocodile became smaller salamander so they could climb trees and venture deeper into forests, and later evolved into lizards so they could crawl into buildings (another conjecture).

What you describe is both faster than is reasonable given the mechanisms of evolution and not supported by the evidence.

We have the fossils and the genetics to demonstrate the patterns of relatedness, Common Decent is an informaed conclusion not conjecture.

I started to read some articles on the website Evolution 101. The first question I have is: It says humans and other species are descended or transformed from tetrapod., which would mean that evolution implies that God did not create humans, and the human species is transformed from tetrapod.

What are your comments? 'River Jordan' believe it happen or is possible.

I'm not a Theistic Evolutionist, but I believe their opinion is that the progression of the world and the evolution of humanity is ultimately going according to God's plan and God's will.

Much the same way that that most Christians take references to a "Firmament" and the "Circle of the Earth" as figurative descriptions rather than Flat Earth confirmations, many others take the creation of Adam and Eve as figurative rather than the names of literal people.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

If you have nothing better to explain besides repeating the abovementioned at least half a dozen times, then read something useful here:

The Bible Makes Accurate Scientific Statements

The Bible is not a book of science but when it makes scientific statements on several occasions, it is surprisingly accurate. For instance, the Scriptures predicted that the earth was round even before science confirmed it. Isaiah 40:22: “He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy and spreads them out like a tent to live in; the word “circle” implies that the earth is round. The prophet Isaiah said this about 700 BC. At that time, people believed that the earth was flat, or they would fall off the surface into space if it was round; back then, no one understood gravity, and sailors were afraid to reach the edge of the sea. In 340 BC, the famous Greek thinker Aristotle wrote a book, On the Heavens, where he gave reasons to support the theory that the earth was shaped like a sphere. Later, more evidence would confirm it. In the twentieth century, aerial photographs showed the earth to be round, but the Bible had said it well ahead of time.

The Scriptures also say the earth is suspended upon nothing. “He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing” [Job 26:7]. In those days, people had little or no clues about the universe. The Greeks believed that the earth was held in space by one of their gods, Atlas. Gradually, thinkers like Ptolemy, Copernicus and Galileo asserted that the earth, like the other planets, might be suspended upon nothing. Science would confirm this later, but not before the Bible had said it much earlier.

The Word of God has been consistently correct on numerous occasions, not just a couple of times. The Lord told Abraham that his descendants would be as many as the number of stars in the sky, if indeed he can count them [Genesis 15:5]. Early astronomers used to believe that they can count the stars, but later, they realized that there are billions of them in the galaxies – beyond our ability to even give a close estimate.

When God created the earth, He said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear” [Genesis 1:9]. It means that at the beginning, the land mass was together. Today, there is geological evidence to substantiate this theory: Same kinds of plants and animal fossils on different continents show that they used to exist on the same land. Geologists or scientists believe that only one supercontinent used to exist, which later became separated into the land masses that we see today. Now, on the map, we can observe that the eastern coastlines of the Americas run almost parallel to the western shores of Europe and Africa. Did they used to be joined together but became separated later?

The Bible provides clues about how the supercontinent was broken up by the flood. During Noah’s time, the waters poured out from the deep of the earth and the floodgates of heavens opened, upon which the earth became submerged. After the water had covered the earth for about a hundred and twenty days, God altered the terrain of the earth. He broke up the supercontinent and oceans were formed as water filled the void between the lands. He created valleys and gorges, and the water flowed into these channels ….. Today, the coastlines on eastern side of American continents run almost ‘parallel’ to the western coast of western Europe and Africa. And fossils and fauna on different continents suggest they were once one land mass - which is the basis of Geology 101.

[Job 38:35]: “Do you send the lightning bolts on their way? Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’?” predicts the use of electricity to transmit signals and messages. When the Bible was written, the word “electricity” did not exist, obviously, and “lightning” referred to raw electric power from nature. Several millenniums later, scientists would be able to harness electricity for use in lighting, telephones and many other ways that we see today. Now, we are indeed using electricity to speak and send messages and images over telephones, mobile phones, radios, televisions, computers, satellites and other communication equipment. In Job’s time, when lighting was provided by fire, no one would dream of using electricity, let alone run away from streaks of lightning. And the telephone was invented more than two millenniums later in 1876, but the Bible alluded to it well ahead of time. Of course, Job did not know about electricity, and he would not be thinking about telephones, televisions and sophisticated instruments. However, inspired by God, he spoke about a technology that will materialize far beyond his time. Today, satellites send messages across the galaxy and spacecraft transmit images from Mars back to earth. We use mobile phones to communicate daily. Job’s words were more than just a scientific prediction; he was speaking about a way of life.

Some argue that the Scriptures may be figurative about science and technology, but whether literal or otherwise, the Book has been consistently correct in many claims – which is a good reason to take it seriously. It is always possible to think of reasons to be critical of the Scriptures. But the fact is there are sufficient or even strong reasons to believe that it is inspired by God, if we do not deliberately choose to ignore the history and scientific facts that it contains. The Bible also spoke of prophecies that have come to pass, which we will consider soon.

Adapted from 'Understanding Prayer, Faith and God's will'.

No, I'm not talking about any of that post hoc logic, so I'm going to talk about your original comment which said:
"It says humans and other species are descended or transformed from tetrapod., which would mean that evolution implies that God did not create humans, and the human species is transformed from tetrapod."

There is nothing in that comment that implies what you say it implies since saying that God created humans only comes from accepting a literal Genesis account. If the study of God's creation through science shows that humans evolved from earlier animals, then I accept that science as fact.

 

[Zceptre]

Thought this would be a nifty addition Joseph.

Blessings to everyone.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Thought this would be a nifty addition Joseph.

If you want to claim design, you need to show design. Just saying "This is designed" is not evidence of design, only that you see design.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Lol....

This is exactly what I was dealing with 15+ years ago on the same subject. On this subject the arguments are always shifting like sand.

Since then I have delved into the paranormal, demonic manifestations, and much deeper subjects the "general public" cannot touch.

People who are stuck in an "it is all natural" mindset are being laughed at by supernatural entities who are evil and aiming to discredit God.

You need to get out of the "science" books, articles, and fairy tales and dive into things a little deeper or the blindness will not leave.

There ARE things much higher than us, and you will not see them unless you stop listening to only one narrative you were fed on repeat.

I'm sorry to inform you, but you have been lied to.

You are no accident. There are no millions of years. The rapture is soon. The world is small. God will demand an account of us all.

Long ago, I would be more understanding to such views and people who hold them.

Today, I know far better and have zero doubts left after doing the legwork and I will not give an inch to what I know is an outright lie.

Maybe you should go find a witch to discredit and make a joke in her house, or maybe find a Satanic coven even if you are brave and REALLY trust your personal views and challenge them that they are all fakes. (I do not actually advise this, it will end in torment being an ego driven mission)

They still want to explain away flesh on dinosaurs being found often these days as if flesh could actually be preserved for millions of years.

Hey look, if you want to doubt in the supernatural reality of the world and creation of Genesis, and you want to conjure up imaginative ideas that flesh itself could actually last that long without decaying... you have got a long road ahead of you and it isn't going to be fun.

People will believe anything and everything that they are told by the world, so long as it isn't the Bible.

Should expand your research into things beyond scientific papers if you want an accurate world-view.

Just remember that it is your own hide on the line.

You can't canoe in two rivers. You either agree with God or you call Him a liar.

P.S. - You showed up in a post about God creating to show your disapproval. Don't expect me to entertain any of the silly statements I just read on account of that fact.

And thanks for the laughs. lol

Posting about praising God on a science subforum, where the discussion is about science, shouldn't have people talking about science? Then what's the point of a science subforum then? If you want to praise God, go to the Christians Only section of the website.

 

[Zceptre]

With love and all due respect, I don't have to do anything.

I didn't say not to discuss science. I said to limit one's worldview to only that field of knowledge is just that, limited.

Maybe my wording was lacking but that was the sentiment.

Ciao.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

With love and all due respect, I don't have to do anything.

I didn't say not to discuss science. I said to limit one's worldview to only that field of knowledge is just that, limited.

Maybe my wording was lacking but that was the sentiment.

Ciao.

With all due respect, please use the reply/quote buttons. Makes everything so much easier.

And still, if you don't want to talk with people who you feel have been lied to, and you want to talk about the supernatural, maybe not doing it on the subforum that is created to specifically have discussions about that with people who don't follow the same view as you, coming to the science subforum seems VERY counterproductive.

 

[roman2819]

What you describe is both faster than is reasonable given the mechanisms of evolution and not supported by the evidence.

I don't know if you mean it is too fast for a 6 x 24 hours creation, but I do not think that each 'day' in Genesis chapter 1 refers to a 24 hour day. In the context of creation, I am certain that the word 'day' is figurative. I will explain soon .

We have the fossils and the genetics to demonstrate the patterns of relatedness, Common Decent is an informaed conclusion not conjecture.

I'm not a Theistic Evolutionist, but I believe their opinion is that the progression of the world and the evolution of humanity is ultimately going according to God's plan and God's will.

If we are not scientists, we cannot know the finer details of how they interpret stuff. A group of scientists or many may claim that Common Descent happen, but we don't know how they arrive at the conclusion. There might still be gaps that they couldn't explain, and we laymen don't know about. And why can't God create species with common traits? Since God create some different lifeforms later than others -- not in the same 24 hours -- which cause some scientists to think some lifeforms evolved later into others later, when in fact God created different lifeforms thousands of years apart. Genesis chapter 1 and 2 is just a very very brief summary of how God's creation.

I believe that species can evolve within their own type eg there are different kinds of horses, but I don't believe they can cross over from aphibian to reptiles.

Science is amazing at building things, be it cars, planes, chips, supercomputers, skyscrapers; but in terms of studying things that are many 100,000 years back, after things are decayed and even disappeared, there is a limit what science can do.

Much the same way that that most Christians take references to a "Firmament" and the "Circle of the Earth" as figurative descriptions rather than Flat Earth confirmations, many others take the creation of Adam and Eve as figurative rather than the names of literal people.

The Bible did say that God created humans in His image, ie: we were not evolved from other species. It is not new for me to hear that Adam and Eve might be figurative, and I don't rule that out. However that does not mean other statements like circle of the earth is figurative. Some words in the Bible, such as day in creation is figurative while others are not. I said earlier, the word day in the context of creation is figurative.

"In the Bible, in the context of creation, day alludes to a passage of time, a stage or a phase in time. Why did the Bible use the word day instead of stage or phase? The word day fits the prose of writing in religious scriptures. For different subjects, be it engineering, human literature, fiction, magazines or newspapers, there are different ways of writing. Chemistry books are written in a factual way, while consumer magazines use words to capture our interests and promote sales. In Chinese culture, the word day can refer to heaven or the deities that dwell in heaven -- and this is not a unique view; it is not unusual for earthly beings to look at the sky and moon, and wonder if there are gods that live far beyond the stars.

In the first chapter of Genesis, at the end of each day, the Bible said, “There was evening and there was morning.” However, if the sun and moon were created on the fourth day, how did evenings and mornings happen during the first three days? As well, notice the order: It was not morning, then evening. Instead, it was the reverse: Evening first, followed by morning. I believe that evening means the end of a stage, not sunset. And morning means the beginning of another phase, not sunrise. As well, it does not mean that the amount of time for each day was the same. In all probability, to gather the land into one place would take much less time than to create the thousand kinds of sea creatures.

Moses said to the people, “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them” [Exodus 20:11]. But back then, could they have known that, in the context of creation, the word ‘day’ was figurative? Indeed, I believe that Moses would be amused at the thought of how thousands of kinds of living things – falcons, kingfishers, leopards, giraffe, hens, worms, ants, ant-eaters, cats and so on – would materialize suddenly in seventy-two hours, as if God had used CGI (computer graphics interface). Why would He rush to create at such a superfast pace? Instead, I believe the Lord planned out the ecology, constructed the atmosphere and elements, then the landscape and fauna. With these structures in place, He placed the sun and moon in place so the earth has day and night, then proceeded to design and make the lifeforms in the sea and on land, one by one. Likewise, for people that like to work on jigsaw puzzles, do they buy an already assembled product or do they enjoy connecting the pieces?" -- Adapted from Understanding prayer, faith and God's will'.

 

[Shemjaza]

I don't know if you mean it is too fast for a 6 x 24 hours creation, but I do not think that each 'day' in Genesis chapter 1 refers to a 24 hour day. In the context of creation, I am certain that the word 'day' is figurative. I will explain soon .

I meant that you description of alligators and lizards morphing and adaption to buildings wasn't consistent with the evidence for evolution that has happened or consistent with the known processes.

I never make claims about thing being impossible in the Creation narrative. Literally anything is possible for an omnipotent God.

If we are not scientists, we cannot know the finer details of how they interpret stuff. A group of scientists or many may claim that Common Descent happen, but we don't know how they arrive at the conclusion. There might still be gaps that they couldn't explain, and we laymen don't know about. And why can't God create species with common traits? Since God create some different lifeforms later than others -- not in the same 24 hours -- which cause some scientists to think some lifeforms evolved later into others later, when in fact God created different lifeforms thousands of years apart. Genesis chapter 1 and 2 is just a very very brief summary of how God's creation.

No factor of science is 100% complete, however significant evidence for evolution has been demonstrated that it is an absolutely reasonable conclusion from the evidence.

The point about the evidence for evolution isn't simply the fact of similarities, it's the consistent pattern of similarities.

A designer has no need to build his creation into a nested hierarchy like a family tree, but that's what both the fossil record and the the genetic information represent. It would be an inferior way to design your life forms.

The problem is that there is evidence for vastly more diversity in life than has existed for all of human history.

I believe that species can evolve within their own type eg there are different kinds of horses, but I don't believe they can cross over from aphibian to reptiles.

The problem is that there isn't any scientific evidence for a barrier.

A cat and a dog are quite different, but they are much closer to each other in structure and genetics than they are to a lizard or a fish. Then there's weird things like dolphins being more genetically similar to cats and dogs then they are to the other creatures of the sea... including having the switched off genes for four limbs... or chickens having the switched off genes for teeth.

Science is amazing at building things, be it cars, planes, chips, supercomputers, skyscrapers; but in terms of studying things that are many 100,000 years back, after things are decayed and even disappeared, there is a limit what science can do.

Absolutely it's limited, which is why you need extensive evidence and repeating studies of the area and the facts.

We could find a sinuous spine going to a broad head preserved in a rock and we might not be able to immediately tell if it's a lizard or a bird... but we would know it's not a fern.

The Bible did say that God created humans in His image, ie: we were not evolved from other species. It is not new for me to hear that Adam and Eve might be figurative, and I don't rule that out. However that does not mean other statements like circle of the earth is figurative. Some words in the Bible, such as day in creation is figurative while others are not. I said earlier, the word day in the context of creation is figurative.

That becomes a matter of interpretation for Christians to agree or disagree about.

My personal issue is that I'm not sure how one definitively shows whose faith is correct... that's why I like science, it has a system built it for checking things.

"In the Bible, in the context of creation, day alludes to a passage of time, a stage or a phase in time. Why did the Bible use the word day instead of stage or phase? The word day fits the prose of writing in religious scriptures. For different subjects, be it engineering, human literature, fiction, magazines or newspapers, there are different ways of writing. Chemistry books are written in a factual way, while consumer magazines use words to capture our interests and promote sales. In Chinese culture, the word day can refer to heaven or the deities that dwell in heaven -- and this is not a unique view; it is not unusual for earthly beings to look at the sky and moon, and wonder if there are gods that live far beyond the stars.

Originally in the older versions of English the word for Sky and Heaven was the same word.

But interpretations of the Bible vary greatly across the Christian world... but it's ultimately not relevant to me, as I don't have faith in it to begin with, but I am always interested.

In the first chapter of Genesis, at the end of each day, the Bible said, “There was evening and there was morning.” However, if the sun and moon were created on the fourth day, how did evenings and mornings happen during the first three days? As well, notice the order: It was not morning, then evening. Instead, it was the reverse: Evening first, followed by morning. I believe that evening means the end of a stage, not sunset. And morning means the beginning of another phase, not sunrise. As well, it does not mean that the amount of time for each day was the same. In all probability, to gather the land into one place would take much less time than to create the thousand kinds of sea creatures.

I've read interpretations that hold the evolution and diversification of life as being what this is describing.

Moses said to the people, “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them” [Exodus 20:11]. But back then, could they have known that, in the context of creation, the word ‘day’ was figurative? Indeed, I believe that Moses would be amused at the thought of how thousands of kinds of living things – falcons, kingfishers, leopards, giraffe, hens, worms, ants, ant-eaters, cats and so on – would materialize suddenly in seventy-two hours, as if God had used CGI (computer graphics interface). Why would He rush to create at such a superfast pace? Instead, I believe the Lord planned out the ecology, constructed the atmosphere and elements, then the landscape and fauna. With these structures in place, He placed the sun and moon in place so the earth has day and night, then proceeded to design and make the lifeforms in the sea and on land, one by one. Likewise, for people that like to work on jigsaw puzzles, do they buy an already assembled product or do they enjoy connecting the pieces?" -- Adapted from Understanding prayer, faith and God's will'.

Life is beautiful and amazing, but to me it's no less amazing when I understand the processes that brought complexity out of the chemical potential of the world.

 

[Joseph G]

I don't know if you mean it is too fast for a 6 x 24 hours creation, but I do not think that each 'day' in Genesis chapter 1 refers to a 24 hour day. In the context of creation, I am certain that the word 'day' is figurative. I will explain soon .



If we are not scientists, we cannot know the finer details of how they interpret stuff. A group of scientists or many may claim that Common Descent happen, but we don't know how they arrive at the conclusion. There might still be gaps that they couldn't explain, and we laymen don't know about. And why can't God create species with common traits? Since God create some different lifeforms later than others -- not in the same 24 hours -- which cause some scientists to think some lifeforms evolved later into others later, when in fact God created different lifeforms thousands of years apart. Genesis chapter 1 and 2 is just a very very brief summary of how God's creation.

I believe that species can evolve within their own type eg there are different kinds of horses, but I don't believe they can cross over from aphibian to reptiles.

Science is amazing at building things, be it cars, planes, chips, supercomputers, skyscrapers; but in terms of studying things that are many 100,000 years back, after things are decayed and even disappeared, there is a limit what science can do.


The Bible did say that God created humans in His image, ie: we were not evolved from other species. It is not new for me to hear that Adam and Eve might be figurative, and I don't rule that out. However that does not mean other statements like circle of the earth is figurative. Some words in the Bible, such as day in creation is figurative while others are not. I said earlier, the word day in the context of creation is figurative.

"In the Bible, in the context of creation, day alludes to a passage of time, a stage or a phase in time. Why did the Bible use the word day instead of stage or phase? The word day fits the prose of writing in religious scriptures. For different subjects, be it engineering, human literature, fiction, magazines or newspapers, there are different ways of writing. Chemistry books are written in a factual way, while consumer magazines use words to capture our interests and promote sales. In Chinese culture, the word day can refer to heaven or the deities that dwell in heaven -- and this is not a unique view; it is not unusual for earthly beings to look at the sky and moon, and wonder if there are gods that live far beyond the stars.

In the first chapter of Genesis, at the end of each day, the Bible said, “There was evening and there was morning.” However, if the sun and moon were created on the fourth day, how did evenings and mornings happen during the first three days? As well, notice the order: It was not morning, then evening. Instead, it was the reverse: Evening first, followed by morning. I believe that evening means the end of a stage, not sunset. And morning means the beginning of another phase, not sunrise. As well, it does not mean that the amount of time for each day was the same. In all probability, to gather the land into one place would take much less time than to create the thousand kinds of sea creatures.

Moses said to the people, “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them” [Exodus 20:11]. But back then, could they have known that, in the context of creation, the word ‘day’ was figurative? Indeed, I believe that Moses would be amused at the thought of how thousands of kinds of living things – falcons, kingfishers, leopards, giraffe, hens, worms, ants, ant-eaters, cats and so on – would materialize suddenly in seventy-two hours, as if God had used CGI (computer graphics interface). Why would He rush to create at such a superfast pace? Instead, I believe the Lord planned out the ecology, constructed the atmosphere and elements, then the landscape and fauna. With these structures in place, He placed the sun and moon in place so the earth has day and night, then proceeded to design and make the lifeforms in the sea and on land, one by one. Likewise, for people that like to work on jigsaw puzzles, do they buy an already assembled product or do they enjoy connecting the pieces?" -- Adapted from Understanding prayer, faith and God's will'.

One question, Roman. Why couldn't have God formulated it all in His mind, over eons if it pleased Him, such that He only had to speak it all into existence? We know He does formulate His creation in His mind, right?

Jeremiah 1:5 NIV
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Six literal days are not long enough for God to... speak?

Psalm 33:6-9 ESV
"By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host. He gathers the waters of the sea as a heap; he puts the deeps in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD; let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him! For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm."

 

[roman2819]

One question, Roman. Why couldn't have God formulated it all in His mind, over eons if it pleased Him, such that He only had to speak it all into existence? We know He does formulate His creation in His mind, right?

Jeremiah 1:5 NIV
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Six literal days are not long enough for God to... speak?

Psalm 33:6-9 ESV
"By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host. He gathers the waters of the sea as a heap; he puts the deeps in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD; let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him! For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm."

"... for people that like to work on jigsaw puzzles, do they buy an already assembled product or do they enjoy connecting the pieces?" Likewise, why would God create at such a superfast speed? I believe He would take pleasure in designing each lifeform.

In the first chapter of Genesis, at the end of each day, the Bible said, “There was evening and there was morning.” However, if the sun and moon were created on the fourth day, how did evenings and mornings happen during the first three days? As well, notice the order: It was not morning, then evening. Instead, it was the reverse: Evening first, then morning. I believe that evening means the end of a stage, not sunset. And morning means the beginning of another phase, not sunrise.

 

[Joseph G]

"... for people that like to work on jigsaw puzzles, do they buy an already assembled product or do they enjoy connecting the pieces?" Likewise, why would God create at such a superfast speed? I believe He would take pleasure in designing each lifeform.

In the first chapter of Genesis, at the end of each day, the Bible said, “There was evening and there was morning.” However, if the sun and moon were created on the fourth day, how did evenings and mornings happen during the first three days? As well, notice the order: It was not morning, then evening. Instead, it was the reverse: Evening first, then morning. I believe that evening means the end of a stage, not sunset. And morning means the beginning of another phase, not sunrise.

Interesting ponderings, and would love to discuss. But I'm curious if you have a response to my specific questions/points and supporting Scriptures?

 

[roman2819]

Interesting ponderings, and would love to discuss. But I'm curious if you have a response to my specific questions/points and supporting Scriptures?

Do you mean God planned the ecology in His mind, then create them in 6 days literally? Or the following verses:

Jeremiah 1:5 NIV
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Six literal days are not long enough for God to... speak?

Psalm 33:6-9 ESV
"By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host. He gathers the waters of the sea as a heap; he puts the deeps in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD; let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him! For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm."

 

[roman2819]

I meant that you description of alligators and lizards morphing and adaption to buildings wasn't consistent with the evidence for evolution that has happened or consistent with the known processes.

The lizards stuff I mentioned was said in jest; I expect people to sense that. Just like I expect people to know that 'the circle of the earth' (in the bible) refers to a sphere but critics refuse to see that.

My personal issue is that I'm not sure how one definitively shows whose faith is correct... that's why I like science, it has a system built it for checking things.

That is an age-old question, of course. And it has become even more complex now with even more information floating around.

I grew up in Singapore, where there are people of all the major religions, the Indian hindus, Malay Muslims, Chinese taoists and buddhists, Jews etc etc. They get along here, and There are hindu temple, church and mosque all situated close together in some areas. I have also read the Quran & buddhists scriptures, and speak to people about their beliefs. Ancient hindu scriptures said the earth was held up by 4 elephants, which is not true. The greeks believe the god Atlas carry the earth. The Buddhists believe in reincarnation but there is hardly any proof (and yet some people believe in a handful of testimonies that alleged they were reincarnated). No other religious manuscripts could present evidence of God as much as the Christian Bible, which has been shown to present history and geography correctly, eg the existence of Egyptian empire, Assyrian, Babylon, Persian and Roman. It didn't mention Greek empire, but that doesn't invalidate it ie the Scriptures do not intend to say everything, It also mention places that exist eg Judea, Jerusalem and Bethlehem in Galilee.

The Scripture is written over 2000 years by many authors. I don't see how they could maintain and coordinate their efforts to maintain a lie. Much of the Bible is about the history of Israel, one of the central theme. In the same way, the Chinese keep records of their civilization over 5000 years, and their records show sufficient truth. And I have to say the ancient Jewish scribes keep records very seriously. Quoting from my book: "At this point, it is appropriate to mention the existence of Jewish scribes, known as the Masoretes, from about 500 AD to 900 AD. They were entrusted with copying, editing and distribution of the Old Testament – a sacred and serious vocation that was held in high esteem. As a show of reverence to their work, the scribes washed their hands before they started to write. They developed a system of counting the number of words in each book in order to ensure that every word was copied. Even if one error was spotted, the entire manuscript would be discarded by burying, in accordance with Jewish customs. They also introduced vowels into the Hebrew words, which only contained consonants originally".

In addition to the Scriptures which had been shown to be valid, the 'last' reason is personal experience with God, which is too much to be said in this thread.

 

[Joseph G]

Do you mean God planned the ecology in His mind, then create them in 6 days literally? Or the following verses:

Jeremiah 1:5 NIV
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Six literal days are not long enough for God to... speak?

Psalm 33:6-9 ESV
"By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host. He gathers the waters of the sea as a heap; he puts the deeps in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD; let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him! For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm."

Yes, exactly - supported by those verses. I'm asking for your response to the specific questions/comments, and to directly address the Scriptures provided as to whether they make for a convincing proposal.

As to six days meaning six literal 24 hour days as we experience them, please consider the following...

Exodus 20:9-11 KJV
"Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Why would God equate what He means for Himself as 6 one thousand year "days", or 6 stages of indeterminate time - to what only His people would decipher as meaning 6 literal 24 hour days for themselves? God, in fact, uses the same word for "day" in both instances. Knowing this, as they were quite literate in Hebrew, His people could only conclude that they were to work 6 literal 24 hour days - or else that they were to work 6 thousand year "days" (or indefinately beyond) until they could take a day off. Now that would be a bummer, eh?

From: Exodus 20:11—An Insurmountable Stone Wall Against Adding Millions of Years to the Bible

"In fact, in Exodus 20:11, God used the same Hebrew word for “days” (yamim, the plural form of yom [day]) that he used in verse 9, showing that God’s days of creation in Genesis 1 were the same kind of days (the same length) as the days of the week for the Israelites. It is doubtful if any faithful Jew ever interpreted it any other way until the idea of millions of years started to take control of people’s minds about two centuries ago."

As to your concern about morning and night and light and darkness - why pin God down to how WE perceive such? He is Light in the darkness Himself. He can define such on any creation day He wishes. He doesn't need the sun and moon or morning or evening - we do. He doesn't sleep - we must.

Why isn't He our perpetual Light now? I figure its because He will not be joined to sin in His full glory. He certainly is our inner Light now - separate from our old sinful nature or flesh.

But when we either rise up to meet Him or are resurrected to do so, finally pure new creations inside and out, and are separated from the goats and all the evil host of the spiritual realm - who will live in perpetual sin for eternity elsewhere - and are presented as the Bride without spot or wrinkle because of the blood of the Lamb - then the Father will welcome us into His eternal presence in all His glory and be our perpetual Light forever.

Exciting, huh?

 

[BCP1928]

Yes, exactly - supported by those verses. I'm asking for your response to the specific questions/comments, and to directly address the Scriptures provided as to whether they make for a convincing proposal.

As to six days meaning six literal 24 hour days as we experience them, please consider the following...

Exodus 20:9-11 KJV
"Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Why would God equate what He means for Himself as 6 one thousand year "days", or 6 stages of indeterminate time - to what only His people would decipher as meaning 6 literal 24 hour days? God, in fact, uses the same word for "day" in both instances. His people could only conclude that they were to work 6 literal days - or that they were to work 6 thousand year "days" (or indefinately beyond) until they could take a day off. Now that would be a bummer, eh?

From: Exodus 20:11—An Insurmountable Stone Wall Against Adding Millions of Years to the Bible

The article neglects to explain the voicing change which, in a language without quotation marks, would indicate an editorial comment rather than the reported speech of God.

"In fact, in Exodus 20:11, God used the same Hebrew word for “days” (yamim, the plural form of yom [day]) that he used in verse 9, showing that God’s days of creation in Genesis 1 were the same kind of days (the same length) as the days of the week for the Israelites. It is doubtful if any faithful Jew ever interpreted it any other way until the idea of millions of years started to take control of people’s minds about two centuries ago."

As to your concern about morning and night and light and darkness - why pin God down to how WE perceive such? He is Light in the darkness Himself. He can define such on any creation day He wishes. He doesn't need the sun and moon or morning or evening - we do. He doesn't sleep - we must.

Why isn't He our perpetual Light now? I figure its because He will not be joined to sin in His full glory. He certainly is our inner Light now - separate from our old sinful nature or flesh.

But when we either rise up to meet Him or are resurrected to do so, finally pure new creations inside and out, and are separated from the goats and all the evil host of the spiritual realm - who will live in perpetual sin for eternity elsewhere - and are presented as the Bride without spot or wrinkle because of the blood of the Lamb - then the Father will welcome us into His eternal presence in all His glory and be our perpetual Light forever.

Exciting, huh?

It's clear that 24-hour days are meant as the story is a refrain of the six day work week followed by a day of rest which had been the custom for quite while by the time the text was written. "Day-age" theories are nonsense.

 

[NxNW]

If evolution is true, then anything is possible isn't it ?

Why do you say that?

I started to read some articles on the website Evolution 101. The first question I have is: It says humans and other species are descended or transformed from tetrapod., which would mean that evolution implies that God did not create humans, and the human species is transformed from tetrapod.

The evidence does not support a supernatural explanation. The fossil records and genetics support humans evolving from Australopithecus. I see no evidence for Adam & Eve having existed, nor the Great Flood having happened.