God, masks and Trump: What a coronavirus outbreak at a California church says about the election

[essentialsaltes]

LINK

In Redding California, Bethel Church and its associated Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry (aka Christian Hogwarts) has been home to the largest COVID cluster in Shasta County. 10% of the city attends the nondenominational megachurch.

But anger toward Bethel Church intensified after members and students fueled such a major spike in coronavirus cases that Shasta County briefly fell backward to the most restrictive tier on California’s reopening plan.

In recent weeks, more than 300 COVID-19 cases have been reported by the church and its Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry (or BSSM), an unaccredited schoolfocused on prophecy and miracles. It has been the largest cluster of cases in Shasta County.

“The perception from that is they don’t really care,” Shasta County Supervisor Leonard Moty said. “What we tried to tell them is, if you really want to be part of the community, you have to do more to respect the community.”

Bethel’s pastors have embraced Trump. Senior leader Bill Johnson endorsed him in an op-ed in The Christian Post, and senior associate leader and BSSM co-founderKris Vallotton claimed to prophesy last year that God wanted him reelected.

Amid the Bethel coronavirus outbreak, Valloton officiated an outdoor wedding for his grandson — with more than 100 guests and few masks — in the tiny Shasta County community of Shingletown. Facing a swift backlash, he posted a video in which he cited Trump’s continuing “having outdoor campaigns where he draws thousands of people.”

Johnson’s wife, Beni, a Bethel senior leader, said in a now-deleted Instagram videothat masks were “people’s security blankets” and that she refused to shop in a coastal town where she was asked to wear “a stupid freaking mask that doesn’t work.”

 

[dzheremi]

Idiots. We had a Baptist church around here that several months ago was tied to an outbreak of Covid that I think grew to something like 70 people before they finally complied with the city's request to stop meeting. It took a few weeks, if I recall correctly.

Religious organizations need to stop being arrogant and careless with their members and the wider public's health, and definitely need to stop following the example of this arrogant president who thinks he's immune. That's just craziness.

 

[Kenny'sID]

So, this whole thing is about the fact they endorse Trump. Wonder how many from the left will glean from this that Trump is responsible for the outbreak?

Show of hands please.

 

[Lord Give Me A Sign]

This reminds me of John MacArthurs church. Which also reminds me, i was searching youtube for videos giving Christians advice on who to vote for. I came across a few videos from Mr. MacArthur where he endorsed Trump

One of them was even titled "Why Christians cannot vote Democrat"

 

[Ophiolite]

So, this whole thing is about the fact they endorse Trump. Wonder how many from the left will glean from this that Trump is responsible for the outbreak?

Show of hands please.

Do you approve of the reported behaviour of the church in regard to covid measures?

Do you accept that Trump's words and actions have provided the church leaders with justification for their failings?

Just raise your hand to agree.

 

[Bobber]

Do you approve of the reported behaviour of the church in regard to covid measures?

You might consider that you should include the behaviour of some in the church world. My experience is many different groups are responding various ways.

 

[dzheremi]

Exactly, Ophiolite. The members themselves are making this connection when they give his example as an excuse for why they feel that they can continue to operate as they have been operating.

Nothing is about Trump but that his supporters cannot seem to do any stupid thing without pointing to him as their inspiration for doing it.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Do you approve of the reported behaviour of the church in regard to covid measures?

Do you accept that Trump's words and actions have provided the church leaders with justification for their failings?

Just raise your hand to agree.

Invalid question.

You ere because of the fact any nut job, fanatic or whatever, can take someome else's words and do just about anything with them.

How could anyone possibly miss that fact, unless they simply choose to, leaving things open to make all kinds of dishonest accusations.

 

[Ophiolite]

Invalid question.

You ere because of the fact any nut job, fanatic or whatever, can take someome else's words and do just about anything with them.

How could anyone possibly miss that fact, unless they simply choose to, leaving things open to make all kinds of dishonest accusations.

Do you or do you not approve of this church's actions in regard to covid? It is a perfectly valid question.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Do you or do you not approve of this church's actions in regard to covid? It is a perfectly valid question.

Of course not, why are you even asking me that? And before you answer, make certian there is no one from the left doing what you think ought not be done.

 

[Ophiolite]

Of course not, why are you even asking me that? And before you answer, make certian there is no one from the left doing what you think ought not be done.

I asked you that because implicit in your posts was either approval of their actions, or a dismissal of their relevance. If you think such implications were not present then you need to revisit how you express yourself in writing.

I would be surprised if there were not those on the left showing the same cavalier disregard for good sense, their personal welfare and the well-being of their community. That said, my perception of the activity in the US is that the kind of disregard for anti-covid measures exhibited by this church is concentrated in those who identify as generic conservatives or specifically as Republicans.

However, I am at a loss to see why their actions should have any impact upon the implications in your posts that led me to ask the question. That's because they are irrelevant to my question.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I asked you that because implicit in your posts was either approval of their actions, or a dismissal of their relevance. If you think such implications were not present then you need to revisit how you express yourself in writing.

I would be surprised if there were not those on the left showing the same cavalier disregard for good sense, their personal welfare and the well-being of their community. That said, my perception of the activity in the US is that the kind of disregard for anti-covid measures exhibited by this church is concentrated in those who identify as generic conservatives or specifically as Republicans.

However, I am at a loss to see why their actions should have any impact upon the implications in your posts that led me to ask the question. That's because they are irrelevant to my question.

Ok, then.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

[Ophiolite]

Ok, then.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

My, you really do want this to be a "them and us" situation.

Now we are both agreed that the subject church behaved irresponsibly in regard to some of their actions. We are also agreed that other individuals, organisations and miscellaneous bodies, of various political, religious and social views have likely also behaved irresponsibly. Can you confirm you agree with the points in this paragraph, detailing any exceptions. Thank you.

 

[JackRT]

Of course not, why are you even asking me that? And before you answer, make certian there is no one from the left doing what you think ought not be done.

So, this church is immune from criticism if anyone on the left is being stupid too?

 

[Kenny'sID]

My, you really do want this to be a "them and us" situation.

Lol, is that all you have?

 

[Kenny'sID]

So, this church is immune from criticism if anyone on the left is being stupid too?

No one is immune from equal criticism.

 

[Ophiolite]

Lol, is that all you have?

No. I have a statment of my position concerning aspects of the topic, which position appears to be the same as yours. I am waiting confirmation from you on that point. It is rather disingenuous of you to disregard that statement. For your convenience here it is again.

Now we are both agreed that the subject church behaved irresponsibly in regard to some of their actions. We are also agreed that other individuals, organisations and miscellaneous bodies, of various political, religious and social views have likely also behaved irresponsibly. Can you confirm you agree with the points in this paragraph, detailing any exceptions. Thank you

 

[Kenny'sID]

No. I have a statment of my position concerning aspects of the topic, which position appears to be the same as yours. I am waiting confirmation from you on that point. It is rather disingenuous of you to disregard that statement. For your convenience here it is again.

No, I agreed we all behave irresponsibly at times, so no one has a right to cast stones, especially consistently biased stones. It really does get old, dude.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Ok, then.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

This is why I think Christian morality can be too easily rendered useless in the real world. If you don’t want someone to criticize you just claim they aren’t perfect and strut around like you checkmated them. If someone has to be perfect to point out something wrong than any horrible action can be excused. It causes a situation of zero moral accountability.

 

[Ophiolite]

No, I agreed we all behave irresponsibly at times, so no one has a right to cast stones, especially consistently biased stones. It really does get old, dude.

I don't take kindly to the suggestion that I am casting stones. I am seeking to find common ground and to move on from there to impart a clearer view of what you consider the position taken by "them" and to help you towards a more sympathetic understanding of what is thought by "us". I'll give you 24 hours to decide whether or not you wish to discuss matters on that basis, or prefer to remain entrenched in what seems like a bitter and unproductive "them" and "us" melee.