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God burning people alive in the Old Testament

Achilles6129

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As I study the Old Testament I read of many instances where people are simply burnt alive by God for being in a state of rebellion against him. I realize that this depiction of God has gone out of modern Christianity and been replaced with the so-called meekness of Christ, but nonetheless such passages are worth studying for their immense theological value and for what they have to show us about the nature of God:

"9 Also the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by harlotry, she profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire." Lev. 21:9 (NASB)

This command was actually carried out by the Jews as it is in ancient Jewish literature. We must remember that this command was in fact issued by Jesus Christ, since "I and my Father are one" (Jn. 10:30).

"Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took their respective firepans, and after putting fire in them, placed incense on it and offered strange fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them. 2 And fire came out from the presence of the Lord and consumed them, and they died before the Lord." Lev. 10:1-2 (NASB)

Here Nadab/Abihu, the #3/#4 ranking members in Israel, respectively, are burnt alive by God for encroaching upon his presence.

"35 Fire also came forth from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering the incense." Num. 16:35 (NASB)

This passage refers to the men who joined in the rebellion of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram against Moses/Aaron. Two hundred and fifty of them are simply burnt alive by God right in front of the tabernacle.

"9 Then the king sent to him a captain of fifty with his fifty. And he went up to him, and behold, he was sitting on the top of the hill. And he said to him, “O man of God, the king says, ‘Come down.’” 10 Elijah replied to the captain of fifty, “If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty.” Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty.
11 So he again sent to him another captain of fifty with his fifty. And he said to him, “O man of God, thus says the king, ‘Come down quickly.’” 12 Elijah replied to them, “If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty.” Then the fire of God came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty." 2 Kgs. 1:9-11 (NASB)

Here God burns 102 men alive at the word of Elijah the prophet.

And of course, let's not forget about Sodom/Gomorrah where two entire cities filled with men/women/children were burnt alive by God:

"24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven, 25 and He overthrew those cities, and all the [w]valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground." Gen. 19:24-25 (NASB)

What are we to make of such passages? The fact that God would burn someone alive (an excruciating punishment - possibly one of the worst ways to die) shows us how evil God believes that natural man truly is. One would have to be simply tremendously evil to deserve such a fate. It is my opinion that these passages show us a great deal about how God views those who rebel against him.
 

Achilles6129

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You are missing something.....It's called the Old Covenant.

The Old Covenant is "obey & live, disobey & die". Much of the OT is God acting in place of His law because the majority of those in the OT were under law. That's the way they wanted it....

The nature of God never changes. The new covenant is much like the old, save that we're talking about eternal damnation in hell instead of physical death. And Paul seems to uphold similar standards as revealed in the Old Testament:

"29 They were filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters,[f] insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, rebellious toward parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 They know God’s decree, that those who practice such things deserve to die—yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them." Rom. 1:29-32 (NRSV)

I am missing nothing.
 
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NannaNae

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I have a question why is this wrong... when vets find incurable diseases on livestock vets do it if there is any herd that had exposure. foot and mouth , mad cow..
well maybe there has been incurable disease like aids/mycoplasma in their little pokers.. maybe it has has been around for a very long time. we know all kind of syphilis and worse has been here a very long time. men been pokin their own and animals and no telling what else .

.. I suggest you look up some of those ancient practices..
burning is the best way to cleanse the land of incurable diseases.
in all of our advancements it is how they still do it today!
 
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miamited

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Hi Achilles,

I agree with you. God was showing Israel just how important it was to Him that they keep His laws and commands. This is exactly the same practice that God said Israel should use in keeping Israel pure. God told the Israelites that they must rid the wicked from among themselves and, while the process of bringing on their death was different, I'm not sure it wasn't even worse for the one passing through it. Being burned alive seems to me, a much quicker and less painful death than being stoned. I would imagine that in the heat of God's fire the one being burned probably died nearly instantaneously. This, of course, is arguable, but I'm not sure you aren't equating the pain of dying by fire more with the pain that is suffered in recovering from it. Or even as one might think of Justin Martyr's death where a flame was lit below him and crawled up his body. God's fire, on the other hand, is seen by me as a more consuming fire. That it went out from God in full heat and immediately surrounded its victim who was near instantly made dead.

Stoning, on the other hand, seems to always have been portrayed as a much slower and more painful way of death for the victim. So, anyway, in regards to your claim that burning is a more painful manner of one being put to death than some others, I'm not completely agreed that that is necessarily so.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Setyoufree

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The nature of God never changes.

Right, and God is agape. He loves sinners more than Himself. There's no self-love in God's love.


32 They know God’s decree, that those who practice such things deserve to die—yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them." Rom. 1:29-32 (NRSV)

I am missing nothing.

How does death come to those who reject God? The context explains:

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them up...

Deut 31:17 Then My wrath shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, 'Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?'
 
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Setyoufree

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Hi Achilles,

Being burned alive seems to me, a much quicker and less painful death than being stoned.

Matt 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' http://www.biblestudytools.com/nkjv/matthew/5.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-f39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person.

Luke 6:27 "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-29 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-30 29 If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-31 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-32 32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you?http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-33 Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you?http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-34 Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them,http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-35 and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sonshttp://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-36 of the Most High,http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-37 because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful,http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-38 just as your Fatherhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-39 is merciful.
 
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miamited

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Matt 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person.

Luke 6:27 "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Hi setyoufree,

I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you inferring that God didn't burn the sons of Aaron with fire? Or that God didn't tell the Israelites to stone people for sin? Or that if God did do these things that He was then unrighteous in His judgments and commands?

As far as what you quoted of my post, I was merely making the observation that death by God's fire would seem quicker and less painful than death by stoning.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Setyoufree

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Hi setyoufree,

I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you inferring that God didn't burn the sons of Aaron with fire? Or that God didn't tell the Israelites to stone people for sin? Or that if God did do these things that He was then unrighteous in His judgments and commands?

I think we need to be careful when we ascribe certain attributes onto our loving, heavenly Father.

For example Paul said, "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face" 1 Cor 13:12. The context is agape and, as we know, "God is agape".

Therefore everything God does must be ruled by His agape love. No meanness can come from our Holy and just God.

Now, where should I start? Yes, let's start this conversation with a quote:

"God destroys no man. Everyone who is destroyed will have destroyed himself. Everyone who stifles the admonitions of conscience is sowing the seeds of unbelief, and these will produce a sure harvest."

The person who wrote this had some very good insights. Now, let's prove it using the Bible and the Bible only:

Let's take the case of Saul's unbelief and apostasy:

"So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had committed against the Lord, because he did not keep the word of the Lord, and also because he consulted a medium for guidance, but he did not inquire of the Lord; therefore, He [God] killed him, and turned the kingdom over to David, the son of Jesse (1 Chron. 10:13, 14).

Did God indeed kill Saul? Be careful how you answer because I have proof that He didn't lay a hand on him.

 
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Setyoufree

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Now, where should I start? Yes, let's start this conversation with a quote:

"God destroys no man. Everyone who is destroyed will have destroyed himself. Everyone who stifles the admonitions of conscience is sowing the seeds of unbelief, and these will produce a sure harvest."

The person who wrote this had some very good insights. Now, let's prove it using the Bible and the Bible only:

Let's take the case of Saul's unbelief and apostasy:

"So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had committed against the Lord, because he did not keep the word of the Lord, and also because he consulted a medium for guidance, but he did not inquire of the Lord; therefore, He [God] killed him, and turned the kingdom over to David, the son of Jesse (1 Chron. 10:13, 14).


Did God indeed kill Saul? Be careful how you answer because I have proof that He didn't lay a hand on him.

Saul said to his armorbearer, “Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it” . . . But his armorbearer would not. . . . Therefore, Saul took a sword and fell on it. . . . So Saul . . . died (1 Chron. 10:4, 6).






 
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Setyoufree

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Which is it?

And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharoah which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go” (Exodus 4:21).

But when Pharoah saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the Lord had said . . . But Pharoah hardened his heart at this time also; neither would he let the people go (Exodus 8:14, 32).

Keep in mind that "agape" does not know force & compulsion. These attributed belong to Satan's kingdom based in iniquity.
 
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miamited

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I think we need to be careful when we ascribe certain attributes onto our loving, heavenly Father.

For example Paul said, "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face" 1 Cor 13:12. The context is agape and, as we know, "God is agape".

Therefore everything God does must be ruled by His agape love. No meanness can come from our Holy and just God.

Now, where should I start? Yes, let's start this conversation with a quote:

"God destroys no man. Everyone who is destroyed will have destroyed himself. Everyone who stifles the admonitions of conscience is sowing the seeds of unbelief, and these will produce a sure harvest."

The person who wrote this had some very good insights. Now, let's prove it using the Bible and the Bible only:

Let's take the case of Saul's unbelief and apostasy:

"So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had committed against the Lord, because he did not keep the word of the Lord, and also because he consulted a medium for guidance, but he did not inquire of the Lord; therefore, He [God] killed him, and turned the kingdom over to David, the son of Jesse (1 Chron. 10:13, 14).

Did God indeed kill Saul? Be careful how you answer because I have proof that He didn't lay a hand on him.

Hi setyoufree,

Well, is that how you want to work this? We only get to use your examples? Did God bring fire down upon the sons of Aaron or didn't He? It's a simple yes or no question. Did God bring about, and by that I mean the active agent, the flood which destroyed all flesh living upon the land? Did God open up the earth to bury the families of Korah, Dathan and Abiram.

They can all be answered with a simple yes or no, but if you'd like to expound on your explanation, feel free. I'm just trying to find out your intention in posting what you did to my claim that dying by fire would seem less painful than being stoned. You posted a couple of new covenant Scriptures where men are encouraged to be merciful, and I have no problem with that and practice that attitude in my life. But, if I am reading your response correctly, while you tell us that we need to be careful not to ascribe to God the actions and intentions of men, I would also caution that neither should we ascribe to men the actions and intentions of God. God is greater!

So, not to belabor the point, but a simple yes or no answer will suffice. Do you ascribe to God the things that the Scriptures say that God did?

While you may think the man who wrote that God destroys no man is wise, I would call him a fool. One only need look at the account of the flood, the deaths of the Egyptian soldiers pursuing Israel, the first born of Egypt to see that God does destroy men.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Achilles6129

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I think we need to be careful when we ascribe certain attributes onto our loving, heavenly Father.

Indeed. Which is why we need to take all of Scripture into account. This includes God burning people alive in the Old Testament, as well as the global flood, as well as the book of Revelation where he basically destroys the entire planet.

Therefore everything God does must be ruled by His agape love. No meanness can come from our Holy and just God.

Correct - but I would question your definition of "meanness." Does putting children to death for cursing their parents qualify under your definition of "meanness" or not?

It's very important how we define our words. We can take certain passages out of Scripture and paint a certain portrait of God or Christ and then sell it to the general public and make them believe what we're saying is so, but that does not make it true. We have to take all of Scripture into account here. When we do take all of Scripture into account I think we see that God is evil by natural man's standards. I'm not in any way suggesting that God actually is evil - rather, he's good - but natural man's definitions of good/evil are way off anyways. God is evil to natural man and natural man is evil to God.
 
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Emmy

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Dear Achilles6129.God in the O.T. is the same God as God in the N.T. God is Love, and God Loves us. In Galatians 6: 7-10: we are told: " Be not deceived
God is not mocked: for whatever a man sows, he shall also reap."
The Old Testament is filled with evil deeds and great cruelty. Men had distanced themselves from God and His Love, and revenge and cruelty was the overall norm. Not until Jesus came and showed us God as God really is,
Love and Compassion, we find cruelty and sin in the Bible. Jesus died that we might live, and in Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells a Lawyer:" The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour AS THYSELF."
Then Jesus states this great fact: " On these two Commandments hang ALL THE LAW AND ALL THE PROPHETS. God wants our Love, freely given and NO conditions made.
The Bible tells us: " Repent," and " Be Born Again." We have to change our selfish and unloving character, into Loving and Caring. We start by asking
God in Matthew 7: 7-10: for Love and Joy, then we thank God, and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour. We keep asking God for Love and Joy, then thank God, and share all Love and Joy with all around us. God will see our efforts, and God will help and guide us. We might stumble or forget at times,
but then we ask God to forgive us, and carry on Loving and Caring.
Love is a Christian`s weapon to overcome all enmity and wrong behaviour.
Jesus our Saviour will guide us: JESUS IS THE WAY. LOVE AND OBEY.
I say this with love, Achilles. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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Achilles6129

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Dear Achilles6129.God in the O.T. is the same God as God in the N.T.

That's exactly correct. This means that modern Christianity's definition of Christ and God is wrong. The NT in no way "trumps" the OT in regards to the nature of God. Also, the NT has passages in it which are much like the OT - only they do not get quoted as much.
 
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Setyoufree

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Hi setyoufree,

Well, is that how you want to work this? We only get to use your examples? Did God bring fire down upon the sons of Aaron or didn't He? It's a simple yes or no question.

Oh, so you want to use your examples? :doh:

Well, let's look at Sodom & Gomorrah:

"Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens. So He overthrew those cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. But his [Lot's] wife looked back behind him, and she became a pillar of salt" (Genesis 19:24-26).

Who did it?

Seems like the Lord, again.

Ah, but there's a problem with this type of theology:

"Jerusalem stumbled, and Judah is fallen . . . They declare their sin as Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to their soul! For they have brought evil upon themselves" (Isaiah 3:8,9).

So far it seems that "the Lord" did some burning, right?

Okay, is God evil? Does He do evil? No, no, no!!!!

Isaiah, through God, says "Sodom...brought evil upon themselves."

Can I prove this? Yes....

Are you sure God actually torched Sodom and Gomorrah?
 
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Setyoufree

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Oh, so you want to use your examples? :doh:

Well, let's look at Sodom & Gomorrah:

"Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens. So He overthrew those cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. But his [Lot's] wife looked back behind him, and she became a pillar of salt" (Genesis 19:24-26).

Who did it?

Seems like the Lord, again.

Ah, but there's a problem with this type of theology:

"Jerusalem stumbled, and Judah is fallen . . . They declare their sin as Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to their soul! For they have brought evil upon themselves" (Isaiah 3:8,9).

So far it seems that "the Lord" did some burning, right?

Okay, is God evil? Does He do evil? No, no, no!!!!

Isaiah, through God, says "Sodom...brought evil upon themselves."

Can I prove this? Yes....

Are you sure God actually torched Sodom and Gomorrah?

Let's go back to an important principle:

Deut 31:17 On that day I will become angryhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/31.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-37 with them and forsakehttp://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/31.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-38 them; I will hidehttp://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/31.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-39 my facehttp://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/31.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-40 from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disastershttp://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/31.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-41 and difficulties will come upon them, and on that day they will ask, 'Have not these disasters come upon us because our God is not with us?'http://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/31.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-42

IF God is not present how can you say He did it????

So, it's when God is not present that evil comes.....Got it????
 
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Setyoufree

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Let's go back to an important principle:

Deut 31:17 On that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and difficulties will come upon them, and on that day they will ask, 'Have not these disasters come upon us because our God is not with us?'

IF God is not present how can you say He did it????

So, it's when God is not present that evil comes.....Got it????

"The punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, which was overthrown in a moment, with no hand to help her!" (Lamentations 4:6. See also Isaiah 1:9,10; Matthew 10:12-15; 11:23,24: Romans 9:29.)
.

How can I give you up Ephraim?
How can I hand you over, Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I set you like Zeboiim?

(Hosea 11:8)


Deuteronomy 29:23 and Genesis 14:2,8 give the names of all four cities destroyed when God poured fire upon the Cities of the Plain: Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim. According to Hosea, then, these last two cities, and by implication, Sodom and Gomorrah with them, were handed over and given up to destruction.

"I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed"

'Have not these disasters come upon us because our God is not with us?'
 
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Harry3142

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Achilles-

Harsh times make for harsh decisions. And the era in which the Torah (the first 5 books of the OT) was written was an extremely harsh era. If a society permitted breaches of the law that weakened it, other societies around it would soon take note, and then determine that society to be an 'easy kill'.

This is why the Torah was written. it wasn't to be seen as a 'roadmap to heaven'; there is nothing in Torah itself to even indicate that there is an afterlife to be attained. Instead, it was a survival manual. As long as the Hebrews followed its laws and commandments conscientiously, they would be seen by the other societies which surrounded them as a formidable foe who demanded respect, rather than their being seen as a society which was vulnerable to being conquered and destroyed. But if they permitted their people to violate those laws and commandments with impunity, then the time would come when other societies would descend on them. And this is exactly what did occur to both Israel and Judea when their societies abandoned those laws in favor of the following of other gods.

Also, we are spoiled today, especially those of us who live in the western societies where democracy is our form of government. We expect our leaders to answer to us, doing what we want of them. But God is not a mayor, a governor, a president, or a prime minister; he is a King. We live at his pleasure; we die at his command. It is he who sits on the throne, and it is we who answer to him for what we have done, or failed to do. And with him there is no such thing as being 'good enough'; we are to be righteous even as he himself is righteous.

Fortunately, God knows far better than we can that there was no possibility of our measuring up to his standard of righteousness. But instead of 'writing us off' as lost souls, he chose to accomplish himself what we could never accomplish, by doing what was necessary in order for us to obtain the righteousness that he demands of us:

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)

So God has given us a choice: We can either accept his judgement, which demands our perfection, or we can accept his mercy, which demands only that we accept what he has done on our behalf. He's done all that is necessary in order to fulfill his requirements for righteousness, but it is our decision as to whether we will accept what he has done as our means of attaining salvation.
 
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Setyoufree

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And the era in which the Torah (the first 5 books of the OT) was written was an extremely harsh era. If a society permitted breaches of the law that weakened it, other societies around it would soon take note, and then determine that society to be an 'easy kill'.

Nothing new under the sun....IF you use that reasoning for them you must use it now, but God said "love your enemy" not burn, kill and destroy. God allowed Israel their ways to show what happens when a people turn to legalism and self-righteousness (Salvation by works). The result is always the same.....

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you shall think that he offereth service unto God. 3 And these things will they do, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
 
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