??? glorified bodies??

[DaveM]

DO we all receive our glorified bodies at the same time??

thanks

 

[Spiritual Jew]

DO we all receive our glorified bodies at the same time??

thanks

Yes. It will occur at the last trumpet when Christ returns.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[parousia70]

No.
The dead get them first.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

 

[DaveM]

My thought has always been at Jesus coming before the battle everyone gets glorified bodies, the dead first then those that are left at his coming.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

My thought has always been at Jesus coming before the battle everyone gets glorified bodies, the dead first then those that are left at his coming.

Are you saying you believe it happens just before what is described in Revelation 19:17-21 occurs then? If so, I agree.

As for the dead getting their glorified bodies first, that isn't necessarily the case. It says they rise first in 1 Thess 4:16-17, but the context is that they have to rise first before anyone is caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Paul made it clear that those who are alive at the time can't be caught up before the dead in Christ. It could be that the dead in Christ are resurrected and then they are changed at the same time as those who are alive and remain at His coming. But, that's not something worth arguing about, since it happens in the twinkling of an eye (1 Cor 15:51-52), anyway.

 

[Clare73]

DO we all receive our glorified bodies at the same time??

thanks

The NT does not seem to address the nature of the bodies of the condemned, other than immortal.

Glorified bodies of the redeemed will come out of the grave at the same time as bodies of the unredeemed, at the one and only resurrection, of all mankind, at the one and only return of Jesus, at the end of all time.

 

[DaveM]

Are you saying you believe it happens just before what is described in Revelation 19:17-21 occurs then? If so, I agree.

Yes that is exactly what I have always thought, but I came to this scripture today and never noticed it before. It seems to suggest the the souls that died for Jesus during the tribulation come to life AFTER Revelation 19 in chapter 20

Rev 20

4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.


It seems these souls have not been given glorified bodies until after the battle, that does not seem to line up happening before Rev 19

I am confused at this point

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Yes that is exactly what I have always thought, but I came to this scripture today and never noticed it before. It seems to suggest the the souls that died for Jesus during the tribulation come to life AFTER Revelation 19 in chapter 20

Rev 20

4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.


It seems these souls have not been given glorified bodies until after the battle, that does not seem to line up happening before Rev 19

I am confused at this point

I don't have the energy to explain this in a lot of detail right now, but there are two main interpretations of Revelation 20 that Christians believe. One is premillennialism which says that Christ returns before the thousand years and one is amillennialism (which I believe) which believes that the thousand years is figurative and generally refers to the New Testament time period that began with the resurrection of Christ. The amillennialist view believes Christ began to reign after His ascension because of scriptures like Matthew 28:18 and Ephesians 1:19-22, so Revelation 20 should be interpreted accordingly.

One thing I will point out is that we should be careful about assuming that all of the book of Revelation is chronological, including Revelation 19 and 20. Clearly, Revelation 11 and 12 are not chronological because Revelation references the seventh trumpet at the end and then Revelation 12 references the birth and ascension of Christ (verse 5). So, that's something to keep in mind.

I'd recommend doing some research on premillennialism and amillennialism and see what you think. I recommend forming the foundation of your doctrine and on your understanding of the timing of bodily resurrections on clear passages like 1 Corinthians 15:22-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 and John 5:28-29. Then interpret Revelation 20 based on what is taught in those more clear and straightforward passages that aren't contained within the most symbolic book in the Bible.

 

[disciple Clint]

DO we all receive our glorified bodies at the same time??

thanks

yes

 

[BrotherJJ]

My thought has always been at Jesus coming before the battle everyone gets glorified bodies, the dead first then those that are left at his coming.

How would your thoughts reckon these verses?

Matt 27:
52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints (God’s people) who had fallen asleep [in death] were raised [to life];

53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered the holy city (Jerusalem) and appeared to many people.

Did these saints/Gods people, that had died, come out of the tomb in their earthly bodies?

 

[DaveM]

How would your thoughts reckon these verses?

Matt 27:
52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints (God’s people) who had fallen asleep [in death] were raised [to life];

53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered the holy city (Jerusalem) and appeared to many people.

Did these saints/Gods people, that had died, come out of the tomb in their earthly bodies?

it does not say, we can only speculate

 

[Clare73]

it does not say, we can only speculate

If they were not transported to heaven with Jesus, but died again at a later date as did, for example, Lazarus, they were not in their immortal resurrection bodies.

We could answer the question definitively if we knew whether they were transported or not.

 

[BrotherJJ]

it does not say, we can only speculate

Ok, you did speculate in post #4. The post I asked for your thoughts on these next verses.

My post 4 questions:
How would your thoughts reckon these verses?

Matt 27:
52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints (God’s people) who had fallen asleep [in death] were raised [to life];

53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered the holy city (Jerusalem) and appeared to many people.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 27 - Amplified Bible

Did these saints/Gods people, that had died, come out of the tomb in their earthly bodies?

ADDITIONALLY:
Reread vs 52 & 53 the RESURRECTED saints mentioned in vs 52 come out of their tombs (vs 53) & are seen by many living people in Jerusalem.

Additionally these verses also proclaim tens of thousands RESURRECTED saints are with Christ at His 2nd advent.

Jude 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
(MY NOTE: When the Lord returns ten thousands of his saints are with him)

1 Thes 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
(MY NOTE: When the Lord Jesus returns ALL his saints are with him)

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
(MY NOTE: When Jesus returns every RESURRECTED saint at that time will be with Him)

 

[3 Resurrections]

My post 4 questions:
How would your thoughts reckon these verses?

Matt 27:
52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints (God’s people) who had fallen asleep [in death] were raised [to life];

53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered the holy city (Jerusalem) and appeared to many people.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 27 - Amplified Bible

Did these saints/Gods people, that had died, come out of the tomb in their earthly bodies?

Those Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints were given their glorified immortal bodies at that time, because it is impossible for a resurrected saint to die twice, according to the rule in Hebrews 9:27 and Luke 20:36. These Matthew 27 resurrected saints composed what Revelation 20:5 called the "First resurrection", being the 144,000 "First-fruits", just like "Christ the First-fruits". This comparatively small group of resurrected saints were "the remnant of the dead which came to life again". Both Christ and the Matthew 27 resurrected saints all shared the same "First-fruits" title because they shared the same "First resurrection" event.

In the correct order of rank, Christ the Firstfruits (and the 144,000 First-fruits raised that same day) would then be followed "afterward" in time by those resurrected at His coming, as 1 Corinthians 15:23 tells us. This lets us know in no uncertain terms that not all the saints are given their glorified, immortal bodies at the same time. You can't have a "FIRST resurrection" without having at least a second resurrection.

Additionally these verses also proclaim tens of thousands RESURRECTED saints are with Christ at His 2nd advent.

Jude 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
(MY NOTE: When the Lord returns ten thousands of his saints are with him)

1 Thes 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
(MY NOTE: When the Lord Jesus returns ALL his saints are with him)

This cannot be resurrected saints coming from heaven to earth along with Christ. Instead, it would have to be myriads of celestial angels (holy ones - hagiais). That is because no man could enter heaven's temple until the 7 plagues of the 7 angels had been finished, according to Revelation 15:8. Since no bodily resurrected individuals were allowed entry into heaven before the conclusion of the 7 plagues, there is no way they could accompany Christ coming from heaven to earth at His return.

 

[Clare73]

Those Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints were given their glorified immortal bodies at that time, because it is impossible for a resurrected saint to die twice, according to the rule in Hebrews 9:27 and Luke 20:36. These Matthew 27 resurrected saints composed what Revelation 20:5 called the "First resurrection", being the 144,000 "First-fruits", just like "Christ the First-fruits". This comparatively small group of resurrected saints were "the remnant of the dead which came to life again". Both Christ and the Matthew 27 resurrected saints all shared the same "First-fruits" title because they shared the same "First resurrection" event.

Except we have no basis in apostolic teaching for saying anyone other than Christ was the firstfruit.

The above is based on personal interpretation of prophetic riddles (dark sayings), which meanings God said he did not give clearly to prophets as he did speak clearly to Moses (Numbers 12:8).

 

[3 Resurrections]

Except we have no basis in apostolic teaching for saying anyone other than Christ was the firstfruit.

The above is based on personal interpretation of prophetic riddles (dark sayings), which meanings God said he did not give clearly to prophets as he did speak clearly to Moses (Numbers 12:8).

Yes, we do have apostolic teaching for saying this. John wrote about the 144,000 who were specifically called "the FIRST-FRUITS unto God and to the Lamb" in Revelation 14:4. This is hardly a personal interpretation of mine. The 144,000 were plainly called "First-fruits". Christ was also called "Christ the First-fruits" in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23. These were all resurrected on the same day. The "First-fruits" harvest is the "FIRST resurrection" event. With at least a second resurrection that occurs "afterward", as 1 Corinthians 15:23 said.

Which means that the saints do not all simultaneously receive their glorified bodies on one occasion only. You would have to deny that Matthew 27:52-53 took place, and I am not prepared to do that.

 

[ViaCrucis]

DO we all receive our glorified bodies at the same time??

thanks

Yes. When the Lord returns in glory the dead in Christ shall rise, and those alive will, with them, join together with them to meet the returning and victorious Lord in the air. And He shall judge the quick and the dead, God shall set all of creation to rights (new heavens and new earth), and there shall be world without end and God is all-in-all.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Those Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints were given their glorified immortal bodies at that time, because it is impossible for a resurrected saint to die twice, according to the rule in Hebrews 9:27 and Luke 20:36. These Matthew 27 resurrected saints composed what Revelation 20:5 called the "First resurrection", being the 144,000 "First-fruits", just like "Christ the First-fruits". This comparatively small group of resurrected saints were "the remnant of the dead which came to life again". Both Christ and the Matthew 27 resurrected saints all shared the same "First-fruits" title because they shared the same "First resurrection" event.

In the correct order of rank, Christ the Firstfruits (and the 144,000 First-fruits raised that same day) would then be followed "afterward" in time by those resurrected at His coming, as 1 Corinthians 15:23 tells us. This lets us know in no uncertain terms that not all the saints are given their glorified, immortal bodies at the same time. You can't have a "FIRST resurrection" without having at least a second resurrection.



This cannot be resurrected saints coming from heaven to earth along with Christ. Instead, it would have to be myriads of celestial angels (holy ones - hagiais). That is because no man could enter heaven's temple until the 7 plagues of the 7 angels had been finished, according to Revelation 15:8. Since no bodily resurrected individuals were allowed entry into heaven before the conclusion of the 7 plagues, there is no way they could accompany Christ coming from heaven to earth at His return.

St. Lazarus isn't walking around today. But he will, on the Last Day, when Christ returns and the dead are raised imperishable and immortal.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[3 Resurrections]

St. Lazarus isn't walking around today.

I agree that Lazarus is not walking around on this planet today. He was raptured out of this world along with the rest of those who had ever been raised from the dead. Lazarus did NOT die twice. That is an impossibility for a saint, according to those two texts I gave - Hebrews 9:27 and Luke 20:35-36.

 

[DaveM]

Yes. When the Lord returns in glory the dead in Christ shall rise, and those alive will, with them, join together with them to meet the returning and victorious Lord in the air. And He shall judge the quick and the dead, God shall set all of creation to rights (new heavens and new earth), and there shall be world without end and God is all-in-all.

this is what I thought, but in chap 20 people that have gone died during the tribulation do not come to life until After the battle is over. wear as the others seems to have come alive before the battle.

Rev 20

4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.