Foggy Idolatry

[rocknanchor]

If I may indulge the Christian reader, I would think it interesting to see some response to this question I have. Not all that unique, I understand yet would appreciate your insight.

Suppose you were traveling to a distant location on the Lord's day and decided to stop in at a certain place to worship at a meeting place called, 'Christ's Church'. Now the interior of this House was beautiful with an abundance of decor trimming. Once in the sanctuary, all appearances of decoration continued to, slightly moreso till you notice off to the side is a abstract artwork congregants held as representing Christ, knelt before and prayed, some, prostrate and wept to before and after service.

Is there truly, nothing shameful concerning this?

 

[Sabertooth]

I am put off by such portraits, but I think that there is grace for those who do not yet know better, for that and other "religious" practices.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

delete misunderstood question.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

abstract artwork congregants held as representing Christ, knelt before and prayed, some, prostrate and wept to before and after service.

Key word is "representing". They do not actually worship the artwork, but who it represents. Idolatry has many more relevant forms in our culture. Who are what are people actually making commitment to?

 

[rocknanchor]

Interesting. As well as the applicable man of God who brought us "all things are lawful for me", also maintained, "yea, what carefulness it wrought in you".

 

[rocknanchor]

Key word is "representing". They do not actually worship the artwork, but who it represents. Idolatry has many more relevant forms in our culture. Who are what are people actually making commitment to?

Interesting, in that it is reminiscent of the Apostle’s response to the glut of idol worship in Athens,

“You Athenians, I see that in every respect you are very religious. For as I walked around looking carefully at your shrines, I even discovered an altar inscribed, ‘To an Unknown God.’ What therefore you unknowingly worship, I proclaim to you.” (Acts 17:22,23)​

Some refused, some were curious, but not until some of them left the ‘Unknown God’ shrine, did they become believers.

“When they heard about resurrection of the dead, some began to scoff, but others said, “We should like to hear you on this some other time.” And so Paul left them. But some did join him and became believers.” (Acts 17:32-34)​

In my OP question, my primary intent was not only to uncover the likelihood of object worship, but whether there remained a suitable clearing of shame associated with such ‘representing’.

“Little children, keep yourselves from idols, ,You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God” (1 John 5:21, Exodus 20:5)​

 

[YahuahSaves]

If I may indulge the Christian reader, I would think it interesting to see some response to this question I have. Not all that unique, I understand yet would appreciate your insight.

Suppose you were traveling to a distant location on the Lord's day and decided to stop in at a certain place to worship at a meeting place called, 'Christ's Church'. Now the interior of this House was beautiful with an abundance of decor trimming. Once in the sanctuary, all appearances of decoration continued to, slightly moreso till you notice off to the side is a abstract artwork congregants held as representing Christ, knelt before and prayed, some, prostrate and wept to before and after service.

Is there truly, nothing shameful concerning this?

We're to worship in Spirit and Truth. We worship the Creator not the created.

John 4:24

24 For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.”

1 John 5:21

21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

Exodus 20:4

4 “You must not make for yourself an idol of any kind or an image of anything in the heavens or on the earth or in the sea.

Leviticus 26:1

26 “Do not make idols or set up carved images, or sacred pillars, or sculptured stones in your land so you may worship them. I am the Lord your God.

​

 

[YahuahSaves]

I am put off by such portraits, but I think that there is grace for those who do not yet know better, for that and other "religious" practices.

Is there grace for those who call themselves "Christ's Church" like the OP mentioned, yet pray to a man-made portrait instead of praying in the spirit?

 

[Sabertooth]

Is there grace for those who call themselves "Christ's Church" like the OP mentioned, yet pray to a man-made portrait instead of praying in the spirit?

Only God knows if they have not gotten that lesson, yet, or they are resisting His conviction.
So many surrender to a "Christmas" spirit who do not yet recognize that as a counterfeit, religious spirit. The OP could be similar to that.

 

[rocknanchor]

Thank you all !!! Obviously, object/image reception is the issue here. Now, that is among a rather sensitive subject for me as I am a 2 and 3-dimensional artists. Marketing my wares since the mid-1960's. A full decade before becomming a Christian. Yes, these two features, my trade and my Christian walk continued up to the present under the premise of Philippians 4:8, in it's entirity, ,

Finally brothers, whatever is true, ​

whatever is venerable, ​

whatever is right, ​

whatever is pure, ​

whatever is lovely, ​

whatever is admirable--​

if any excellence and if any praise--think on these things.​

So, back to this topic, if someoe were to ask, where do I draw the line between inanimate images/objects of "lovely" qualities that, let's face it, the end results of the 'man of sin' in 2Thessalonians if you recall, wll bring along with him "all power and signs and lying wonders". That would in all probability have to include some deceptive degree of loveliness (wonder), which is why any of those items from verse-8 cannot be excluded from their counterparts, which, could complicate the Christian liberty of Paul's "all things are lawful for me". But the lawfulness is double-sided, to both admire something and yet protect its praiseworthy condition. That is about all I could allocate to a proper form a contentment here.

But do add to if you like, all insights welcome.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Thank you all !!! Obviously, object/image reception is the issue here. Now, that is among a rather sensitive subject for me as I am a 2 and 3-dimensional artists. Marketing my wares since the mid-1960's. A full decade before becomming a Christian. Yes, these two features, my trade and my Christian walk continued up to the present under the premise of Philippians 4:8, in it's entirity, ,

Finally brothers, whatever is true, ​

whatever is venerable, ​

whatever is right, ​

whatever is pure, ​

whatever is lovely, ​

whatever is admirable--​

if any excellence and if any praise--think on these things.​

So, back to this topic, if someoe were to ask, where do I draw the line between inanimate images/objects of "lovely" qualities that, let's face it, the end results of the 'man of sin' in 2Thessalonians if you recall, wll bring along with him "all power and signs and lying wonders". That would in all probability have to include some deceptive degree of loveliness (wonder), which is why any of those items from verse-8 cannot be excluded from their counterparts, which, could complicate the Christian liberty of Paul's "all things are lawful for me". But the lawfulness is double-sided, to both admire something and yet protect its praiseworthy condition. That is about all I could allocate to a proper form a contentment here.

But do add to if you like, all insights welcome.

Hmm... I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're getting at...?
There's a difference between admiring art and worshipping art (even if you think you're praying to Jesus through it). Just like there's a difference between worshipping God and worshipping his creation - I think that is what those verses mean that mention idols... anything we put in the place of God in our lives can be considered an idol, not just art.

 

[Sabertooth]

...which, could complicate the Christian liberty of Paul's "all things are lawful for me"...

The rest of that verse is that not all things are edifying (good for us or healthful).

We can usually figure out pretty quickly if a choice leads to an undesirable outcome, at least with the Holy Spirit on the job.
Tobacco is not spelled out as sin in the Bible, but it turned out to be a really bad idea (in terms of consequences).

 

[All Becomes New]

Key word is "representing". They do not actually worship the artwork, but who it represents. Idolatry has many more relevant forms in our culture. Who are what are people actually making commitment to?

That's exactly what the Pagans said about their statues. They said, "Oh, we don't worship the idols. We just use them to worship the actual god we serve."

 

[rocknanchor]

Hmm... I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're getting at...?
There's a difference between admiring art and worshipping art

Just that, looking at an inappropriate work before us could also incorporate an element to dismay a Christian which includes - wonders.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Just that, looking at an inappropriate work before us could also incorporate an element to dismay a Christian which includes - wonders.

You think that's what revelation is talking about? Art?

 

[rocknanchor]

You think that's what revelation is talking about? Art?

I don't think I would discount it, nor any inanimate thing created.

 

[YahuahSaves]

I don't think I would discount it, nor any inanimate thing created.

There's a lot of ideas circulating as to what those "wonders" might be, one if them being transhumanism.

 

[rocknanchor]

For one whom has received Christ and after a season of receiving instruction, begins to find a difficult time of crossing human instinct to continue in that instruction by prayer for help and concluding in his own reasoning, that ‘God is somehow, showing me not to press in this cross-grain fight', has cast away his own confidence.

For the sake of idolatry, he has assumed an idol-nix-phobia posture!

For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted. (Hebrews 2:18)​

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

That's exactly what the Pagans said about their statues. They said, "Oh, we don't worship the idols. We just use them to worship the actual god we serve."

So then who is the actual god in this case? OP says Christ.

 

[Techo]

Ok. I suspect that all this comes done to motivations and relationship. Anyone who does not have relationship with God (through a personal commitment to Jesus Christ) is going to have motivations that are not of Him. They will worship an object, rather than God, because they think that, by doing so, they will be able to do what they want to and still consider themselves to be 'spiritual'. (There is more to say on this but will not to keep it a little briefer). Any responses that are self centered (rather than led of the Spirit) are, essentially, sinful.

I have observed, in the past, some people who have engaged in activities that older, more mature Christians might consider inappropriate for a Christian. At some point in time God may bring conviction upon these people that these things need to be put aside but God has different agendas to us so the things that we consider are most important to avoid He puts lower down on the list in order to address some other matter within their life.

For that matter, I think that there are some things that we, as Christians, consider to be to be sinful but, for God, they are entirely a non-issue. We have been told, by the world, that 'this is how civilized people behave' and so have taken upon us the worlds standards of what is good and what is evil. We have eaten of their 'Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil' rather than eating from the Tree of Life (which is Jesus). But that, probably, is something for a whole different thread.