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Flat Earth Theory.

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d taylor

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You've been shown images from balloon cameras on other threads where the curve is discernable, even taking into account the distortion caused by wide angle lenses (straight lines are not distorted when they pass through the centre of the field of view)

Phil Scott (By Phil Scott | From Michael Richards, Sep/Oct 97) who wrote an article for the magazine Cigar Aficionado stated this in his article
We're flying above 50,000 feet now, almost 10 miles high. At this altitude you're supposed to be able to discern the curvature of the earth, but for whatever reason, it's not apparent.

So it must be higher than 10 miles

Apparent /ə-păr′ənt, ə-pâr′-/

adjective​

  1. Readily seen; visible.
    "The animal's markings were immediately apparent."
  2. Readily understood; clear or obvious.
    "The error was apparent to everyone in the audience."
  3. Appearing as such but not necessarily so; seeming.
    "an apparent advantage
 
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prodromos

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Phil Scott (By Phil Scott | From Michael Richards, Sep/Oct 97) who wrote an article for the magazine Cigar Aficionado stated this in his article
We're flying above 50,000 feet now, almost 10 miles high. At this altitude you're supposed to be able to discern the curvature of the earth, but for whatever reason, it's not apparent.

So it must be higher than 10 miles
If he didn't have a straight edge to compare it to, then it would be difficult to discern by eye even at 50,000 feet. However, many people have taken photographs at that altitude and lower (35,000 feet), being careful to place the horizon in the centre of the field of view to avoid distortion, and when viewed on a computer with a straight line reference, the curve is clearly discernable.
 
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prodromos

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Earth curvature.jpeg

You can do this with help from friends who live North and South of your location, preferably living on the same line of longitude so you get accurate distances for plotting the X-axis. I can't help because I live South of the equator and cannot see Polaris as it is blocked by the curvature of the earth.
 
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d taylor

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View attachment 340503
You can do this with help from friends who live North and South of your location, preferably living on the same line of longitude so you get accurate distances for plotting the X-axis. I can't help because I live South of the equator and cannot see Polaris as it is blocked by the curvature of the earth.
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Your illustration should check its language.
 
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prodromos

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Your illustration should check its language.
Because it uses the abbreviation/acronym of "Bovine Scat"?

Ah, apologies. It isn't an abbreviation, my brain simply read it as such. I'll see if I can find a version without. I agree that the word is completely unnecessary and detracts from an otherwise excellent explanation.
 
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JacksBratt

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Based on what? Globe earth explains everything we observe.
That statement is exactly what has been argued here ad nausium.
Based on the fact that we can see too far and a bunch of other things on this thread.
 
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JacksBratt

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And where are your Bible words about a flat earth?

Romans 1 " The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."
...clearly seen"...that is the subject of Augustine's point about foolish Christians who bring discredit on the Gospel (The Gospel...that is in the Bible)
If you want to really understand the biblical references to a flat earth... I mean really seriously want to investigate it. Try this:

However, if you don't have the time to investigate it and don't have an open mind to read other peoples views based on the bible... and then make your own mind up... instead of accepting it with blind cognitive dissonance..... then don't read any or Rob Skiba's stuff.... especially not this.
 
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JacksBratt

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Then why does the horizon successively drop below eye as you view from higher elevations. If the Earth were flat, the horizon would always appear to be at eye level due to perspective, regardless of the elevation you viewed from.
Funny....
That's exactly what happens.

The horizon is always at eye level.

Go to the ocean... look out... horizon is eye level.

Go up in a plane... Horizon is at eye level.

1703030426818.jpeg


1703030449849.jpeg
 
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JacksBratt

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But a flat earth would look and behave completely differently to what we actually see.
How would it behave differently?
Being able to sometimes see slightly further than expected is due to refraction. Refraction is well understood, except by the person narrating this video, who just tries to dismiss it by ridicule. Refraction has the biggest effect near water.
Slightly further? Some examples are miles further and the objects should be thousands of feet below the curve.
While a flat earth is far simpler to understand than a rotating globe earth, it does not agree with everyday observations.
Can you name some observations that don't agree with a flat earth? From my viewpoint... nothing from day to day life, getting up and taking a walk or car ride.... can give me any proof of a flat or ball earth.
There is an abundance of evidence that the earth is a globe, much of which contradicts a flat earth explanation. Here are some examples. Perhaps start by explaining how sunrise and sunset works on a flat earth.

Sunrise​
Sunset​
Remember that any explanation of sunrise must also explain sunset, midday sun and no sun at night, all at the same time for different places on the (allegedly) flat earth.​
IF you were to study the accepted FE model, these are explained quite well. So are the seasons and varying lengths of daylight.
Size of the sun does not significantly change and always looks round.​
You can see further out to sea from the top of a cliff or hill than lower down. For example, you cannot see an island 20 miles way when at or near sea level, but can see if from the top of a hill.​
In some cases, islands miles and miles away, are visible from the shore.

That's what I mean... we see too far. There are many examples of this.
Ships go out of sight over the horizon from the bottom up.​
It has been shown over and over that when a ship goes "over the horizon"... simply zooming in with a telescope or high zoom camera.. bring them back into view.
Intercontinental flight times.​
This is something that is an issue that is one of the better arguments.
On a flat earth, the horizon should always be at eye level, even when on a mountain. It isn't.​
Yes. It is.. always at eye level even on a airplane.
Phases of the moon.​
There has been numerous discussions on this forum about the moon being it's own light source.

Eclipses​
There are examples of lunar eclipses when the sun has already risen. People try to explain it away but if the sun is already up and I can see it... it's impossible for the shadow of the earth to still be on the moon.

Also, when the sun goes behind the moon, the moon's shadow crosses the earth. A shadow is always larger than the object casting it.... so why is the moons shadow on the earth so small?
Seasons​
Explained by the accepted FE model. Check it out.
Does not resort to any conspiracies for support.​
If the earth is Flat... then the globe is it's own conspiracy.
 
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JacksBratt

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Salvation

Fortunately our Salvation does not depend on understanding how something works. We do not need to understand how birds navigate across oceans and continents as they migrate. Or how your car engine works. You don't even need to be aware of the 3GPP standards to use a mobile phone. And in this thread, understanding the shape and movement of the earth.

Bible

According to the Bible, God created "the heavens and the earth" - what we would now call "the universe". This is a basic orthodox Christian belief.

"And God saw that it was good" - Gen 1v10, 12, 18, 25.
"God saw all that he had made, and it was very good" Gen 1v31

Psalm 19 "The heavens declare the glory of God, the skies proclaim the work of his hands."

God did not create an illusion, but a world that can be observed, explored, and understood (to some extent). The God described in the Bible is not a god of deception. Science is the study of God's creation. It is not a choice between the Bible or science.

Fortunately the Bible generally describes the world around us from a human perspective, not from a detailed scientific view point, which very few people, if anyone, would be able to understand. The flat earth arguments show that many people do not understand even basic physics, basic geometry or basic maths.
This is very true.

IMO I could care less about the Flat or globe earth. It has never been a factor in my life.

However, there are those that were atheists... who heard of the FE... studied it... came to accept it as a true view.. for them... then, from that position or belief, they concluded that if the earth is flat and we are in an enclosed fixed flat dome covered "snow globe" ( thank you Rob Skiba).. .Then, there is no way that we are here by accident, evolution or any other random reason.. and God must be real.

From there, they have become Christians and now follow Christ.

Do you think that Satan would present a model that would lead people to believe in God, Christ, the Gospel?

No, but he would present a counterfeit idea that could be explained to the naive.. to exist without the need of God.

The FE requires God. The globe model can more easily, be explained without God. Even though it calls for events to happen at incredible and impossible odds.
 
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JacksBratt

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If you ever really looked into flat earth, you'd see that all that has been covered and answered. What you don't understand is that most people go into flat earth kicking and screaming due to our unwillingness to give up the globe paradigm we were all raised with. We all wanted it to go away, but there's no escaping our reality once you understand it. There is no area that hasn't been explored and explained. You can make your list as long as you want, but the flat earth community as a whole has already looked into it all.

When someone presents a list like this, all it tells me is that they have never really looked into the concept with any depth. All of your list is Flat Earth 101.
Everyone who believes in the FE model... Everyone.... started off by "that... is crazy. You have got to be joking".
 
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JacksBratt

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Its called interpretation. Grossly misinterpreted scripture by those desperate to see a flat earth spring up from the word of God!

God didnt create a flat earth. No amount of twisting of scripture by flat earthers will produce that.

The earth is a globe.

Wake up flat earthers and see that you are not living on a flying pancake!!!
Why is it that people that are solid globe earth believers and FE deniers... are so triggered?

I don't think I have ever seen a person with the FE view tell someone to "wake up", accuse someone of "grossly misinterpreting something" or any other sort of condescension.

Yet, I see it all the time. The obvious abrasive words, put downs, ridicule and lack of acceptance of the fact that someone doesn't hold their view from some here with the globe only view.
 
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JacksBratt

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Phil Scott (By Phil Scott | From Michael Richards, Sep/Oct 97) who wrote an article for the magazine Cigar Aficionado stated this in his article
We're flying above 50,000 feet now, almost 10 miles high. At this altitude you're supposed to be able to discern the curvature of the earth, but for whatever reason, it's not apparent.

So it must be higher than 10 miles

Apparent /ə-păr′ənt, ə-pâr′-/

adjective​

  1. Readily seen; visible.
    "The animal's markings were immediately apparent."
  2. Readily understood; clear or obvious.
    "The error was apparent to everyone in the audience."
  3. Appearing as such but not necessarily so; seeming.
    "an apparent advantage
My favorite, that people jumped all over and tried to debunk and rebuke... stating that the reporter quoted him wrong... ( which is absurd due to the simple fact that Auguste would never have allowed them to print something this controversial if he had not stated it.)
This statement was not disputed from the date it was published, until the resurgence of the FE belief.

Auguste Piccard: First man to the stratosphere..

In a Popular Science interview, Piccard was reported to have said that " Earth “seemed a flat disc with an upturned edge."

This was in May 1931 before any space program, NASA or any reason to censor someone for saying what he did.
 
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prodromos

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Funny....
That's exactly what happens.

The horizon is always at eye level.

Go to the ocean... look out... horizon is eye level.

Go up in a plane... Horizon is at eye level.

View attachment 340597

View attachment 340598
You need a water level in those photos to show where eye level actually is. When the water level is used, the horizon is always below eye level as you go up in elevation. Everything you stated was false.
 
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Lost4words

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Why is it that people that are solid globe earth believers and FE deniers... are so triggered?

I don't think I have ever seen a person with the FE view tell someone to "wake up", accuse someone of "grossly misinterpreting something" or any other sort of condescension.

Yet, I see it all the time. The obvious abrasive words, put downs, ridicule and lack of acceptance of the fact that someone doesn't hold their view from some here with the globe only view.

To believe in a flat earth just goes to show how truly gullible people are. Its beyond belief how people can truly get sucked into the lies of the flat earth bubble. Its utter madness.
 
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Lost4words

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Everyone who believes in the FE model... Everyone.... started off by "that... is crazy. You have got to be joking".

And then they got suckered and duped into thinking the earth is flat!!
 
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prodromos

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Why is it that people that are solid globe earth believers and FE deniers... are so triggered?
Why do you make sweeping generalizations based on the posts of one person?
 
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prodromos

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How would it behave differently?

1) The flat-earth model predicts that the visual diameter of the flat-earth Sun can, depending on your latitude, vary by more than a factor of 2 between noon and sunrise or sunset, which we do not observe. At sunrise or sunset the flat-earth Sun is much farther away from an observer than at noon, so it would look much larger at noon (and the sunlight would be over four times as intense at noon), whereas in reality the Sun is so very far away that its tiny change in angular size from sunrise to noon is undetectable. Also, the angular size of the flat-earth Sun is very different when viewed from different latitudes, which is not what is observed in the real world.

2) The flat-earth model predicts that the flat-earth Sun will never get anywhere near the horizon, despite the fact that we see sunrises and sunsets with the Sun at and even sinking below the horizon. Because the flat-earth Sun is about 3500 miles above the disk, an observer on such a flat Earth should always see lots of sky between the horizon and the Sun; at sunrise and sunset the flat-earth Sun is far above the horizon.

3) A closely related naked-eye observation is that at sunset one sometimes sees the bottoms of low-lying clouds lit by the setting Sun. The flat-earth model predicts that this cannot happen, since the flat-earth Sun is about 3500 miles above the Earth.

4) The flat-earth model predicts that the North Star will be visible even from Argentina, despite the fact that it is not visible from anywhere a few miles south of the equator (the North Star is a small angular distance from the point around which it seems to circle, so that at a short distance south of the equator you can see it some of the time). In fact, from the edge of the flat-earth disk, the North Star will be about 25 degrees above the northern horizon. Similarly the flat-earth model predicts that the angular height of the North Star should be about 60 degrees in Dallas Texas, but it’s actually only 33 degrees above the horizon, which is a huge naked-eye discrepancy. The latitude of Dallas is 33 degrees, and on a round Earth one predicts that the North Star will be 33 degrees above the horizon, as is observed.

5) The flat-earth model predicts that if you watch a constellation that is near the eastern horizon at nightfall, it will grow larger until midnight, as it comes closer to you, then smaller as it moves away from you toward the west. No such effect is in fact observed. Closely related is the prediction that as you move farther from the North Pole, the larger will be constellations in their closest approach to you. Moreover, in all cases the brightness of the flat-earth stars and flat-earth Sun will vary depending on how close or far you are from them, which is not observed in naked-eye observations. This implies that the stars and Sun are very far away, so that moving large distances on the Earth’s surface hardly changes the large distance to stars and the Sun. Also, except at the North Pole, a constellation in reality never moves parallel to the horizon during the night as it does in the flat-earth model.

There is no room for the well-known southern-hemisphere constellation, the Southern Cross! Just as the North Star should be well above the horizon even in Argentina, so should all the constellations of the southern hemisphere be well above the horizon in the US. Not only do we not see these constellations in the US, there isn’t room for all the southern-hemisphere constellations and all the northern-hemisphere constellations to be jammed into the single hemisphere that is the rotating flat-earth dome.

6) If you move away from the North Pole you’ll see that the tracks of the stars around the North Star are no longer circles but are now ellipses, which does not agree with long-exposure photos of the night sky.

Slightly further? Some examples are miles further and the objects should be thousands of feet below the curve.
All depends on the atmospheric conditions how much bending of light occurs.
Can you name some observations that don't agree with a flat earth? From my viewpoint... nothing from day to day life, getting up and taking a walk or car ride.... can give me any proof of a flat or ball earth.
See the above list of just a few.
IF you were to study the accepted FE model, these are explained quite well. So are the seasons and varying lengths of daylight.
Where can I find this mythical 'accepted FE model'?
In some cases, islands miles and miles away, are visible from the shore.

That's what I mean... we see too far. There are many examples of this.
Have these observations been repeated at different times of the day and during different seasons, or is it just a one off when conditions happened to be just right?
It has been shown over and over that when a ship goes "over the horizon"... simply zooming in with a telescope or high zoom camera.. bring them back into view.
This has never been shown. Flat Earthers always choose small boats as the subject of these 'proofs', which appear to disappear because their arc width is smaller than the human eye can discern. Zooming in with a camera brings the whole boat back into view because it is not beyond the horizon. The explanation of why they 'disappear' also fails to explain why far more distant aircraft are still visible.
Yes. It is.. always at eye level even on a airplane.
You fail to provide any images with instruments (such as a water level) to show where eye level is in relation to the horizon.
In other threads I have shown photos with a water level used to show eye level and the horizon is always below eye level, with the difference increasing as you go up in altitude.
There has been numerous discussions on this forum about the moon being it's own light source.
No proofs given, just bald assertions.
There are examples of lunar eclipses when the sun has already risen. People try to explain it away but if the sun is already up and I can see it... it's impossible for the shadow of the earth to still be on the moon.
That pesky atmospheric refraction again.
Also, when the sun goes behind the moon, the moon's shadow crosses the earth. A shadow is always larger than the object casting it.... so why is the moons shadow on the earth so small?
The sun is orders of magnitude larger than the moon. There are two areas of shadow cast by the moon, the penumbra and the umbra. The umbra is the cone shape corresponding to the different diameters of the sun and moon. If the moon was just a little further from the earth then the umbra would end just short of the earth's surface and we would never witness a total eclipse.
3x.png

Explained by the accepted FE model. Check it out.
Again, where is this mythical model we keep hearing about?
 
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