• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!

Female Pastors?

Dietrich Johnson

Active Member
Dec 5, 2021
150
37
California
✟32,173.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
1 Timothy 2 speaks about women not teaching men, and 1 Corinthians speaks about women remaining silent in "the churches" (KJV). Is this to be applied universally, or when read in context of the original audience this was intended for is there any room for women today to teach (for example) a Sunday school class for adults that both men and women attend?
 

ServantJohn

Not quite a newbie...
Nov 9, 2010
565
102
✟19,608.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Mike Winger did a very well-researched video series on this topic. The videos are long and there are a few of them because there are many different things to cover but can't recommend a better resource on this topic.

As for during the main service, no. As a Sunday school teacher over a mixed group of men and women, I don't know but lean towards no. Outside of the church such as on YouTube, as a teacher in a seminary, writing books, sharing on the radio, or something similar to what Aquila and Priscilla did is completely fine.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Clare73
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
30,353
9,330
NW England
✟1,236,125.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
1 Timothy 2 speaks about women not teaching men, and 1 Corinthians speaks about women remaining silent in "the churches" (KJV). Is this to be applied universally,

No, the verses should be read in context.
As to whether or not to apply it; some churches do, some don't. I would say that it's for the Holy Spirit to tell us whether or not to apply it today. And as God, by his Spirit, calls women to teach and preach, and gives gifts for doing so, it seems that he wants us to proclaim his Gospel and tell people about his Son.

is there any room for women today to teach (for example) a Sunday school class for adults that both men and women attend?

Of course - Priscilla taught Apollos.
But some don't see it like that.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Paidiske
Upvote 0

Dave G.

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
4,669
5,341
75
Sandiwich
✟368,441.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
All you need is the definition of a pastor ( bishop), deacon, church leader from scripture and you have your answer right from scripture. It's cut and dry by definition. Anything beyond that is a humanistic view or twisted words from out of context other portions of scripture. As humans we can make anything work then justify it. Or it's a doctrine formed by churches or denomination outside of what scripture says and we simply swallow the bait because it sounds good.

That said there are some great women teachers and women gravitate to them in our day and age. My own daughter sits under and is being mentored by two women pastors who run a small church not far away. She wants to be a Christian womens counselor. She is already active in that roll but wants it in a more official capacity. She is taking online courses for this. There are ordained women pastors who do a great job, ordained by churches, bible schools, ordination boards. If they are ordained by God remains to be seen, we will know one day.

I sit under a group of male pastors and am mentored as such. Have a license to preach or lead within our large system. Our church has female leaders for women but is very male pastor dominant, there are no female pastors.. And men are taught by the pastors. While There are no female pastors we do have many female leaders for bible study, womens seminars etc. We do nothing outside of scripture, at least not deliberately.
 
Upvote 0

Trusting in Him

Well-Known Member
Oct 25, 2021
1,063
672
72
Devon
✟57,100.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I don't think that there is much doubt from a biblical perspective that leadership is presented as being male, but the first witnesses to the reserrection of Christ were all women. It is not exactly unknown in my own group of churches for some women to preach and this is particularly true in womens meetings. I think that there can be times when women who are gifted with a preaching ministry are even accepted to preach to whole churches within my own group of churches, but pasters and elders are still male as this is what scripture teaches. Women also prophesy quite a lot in church meetings as well.
 
Upvote 0

By_the_Book

Life lived by the Bible is life worth living.
Jul 25, 2022
161
157
58
St. Augustine
Visit site
✟38,009.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
1 Timothy 2 speaks about women not teaching men, and 1 Corinthians speaks about women remaining silent in "the churches" (KJV). Is this to be applied universally, or when read in context of the original audience this was intended for is there any room for women today to teach (for example) a Sunday school class for adults that both men and women attend?


I'm going to share with you what my senior pastor and mentor shared with me over 25 years ago when I became his co-pastor for the women. He was sharing this because I knew what God was calling me to do, my husband a very manly man who is very secure in himself, also knew what God was calling me to do yet traditionally the way I had grown up seem like it would make it impossible for me to do what God was calling me to do. So this very wise man helped me understand, and I have never looked back.

'The scripture that states for women to remain silent in the church must be taken in context of the time frame. It had nothing to do whatsoever with ministering or teaching it had to do with a problem of disruption and interruption during services. He asked me to take a close look at the people and the churches who claim that women cannot teach or hold a pastoral position. They use the scripture that you quoted about women remaining silent and not teaching to support the suppression, while hypocritically at the same time using those same women to teach children, to teach young people, to head various programs such as Vacation Bible School, etc and the last time I checked you had to speak and teach to do all of those things. As he said, they can't have it both ways but they certainly try to.'

Now that said I want to make my position as a called woman of God who has ministered, pastored, and taught over the last 25 years...

There are both men and women in every church congregation. Men need men to minister to them and women need women to minister to them. It is my firm belief there should be co-pastors a male and a female in order for the congregation to be properly served. I do not believe a pastor's wife who does not feel a direct personal calling should be pushed in to take care of the women when there are enough called women to do that service to the body.

I do not believe a woman should usurp the authority of a man. Again that said not every man in a church congregation has authority over every woman. I guess the simplest way to boil down my point about usurping authority would be to say a man should not be forced to answer to a woman in a church congregation or forced to sit under a woman's teaching. Now if he chooses to go to a Sunday School Class or a Bible study where he knows she is teaching or attend a special program or service where she is going to be teaching or speaking that's his choice, she is not forcing herself on him. She is not placing herself in an authoritative position over him. He is making the choice to be in that group and to listen to what she has to say, what God has put on her heart.

Again, truly spiritually healthy congregations will make room for a male and female leader who have a personal and direct calling from God to serve their respected sex within that congregation.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: atpollard
Upvote 0

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Site Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,340
9,284
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,223,311.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
1 Timothy 2 speaks about women not teaching men, and 1 Corinthians speaks about women remaining silent in "the churches" (KJV). Is this to be applied universally, or when read in context of the original audience this was intended for is there any room for women today to teach (for example) a Sunday school class for adults that both men and women attend?
1rst Corinthians actually has the answer to this, in another passage. (And 1rst Corinthians is very very rewarding to read in full).

When you do fully read 1rst Corinthians, you will read chapter 8, and that will help one understand why at that time, when women apparently were agitating and disturbing the church trying to win even more new freedoms, they need to make a sacrifice for the sake of those who would be tripped up by those who were exercising their new freedoms.

It's very serious.

You get how serious if you read 1 Corinthians 8 NIV

To exercise our 'freedoms' even when it destroys (causes to lose their salvation) someone weak who is in our church with us -- that would not be ok with God.

But, just as Paul set as example one might need in a church, because of members in that church, to entirely give up eating meat 100%, we know that doesn't mean that all Christians around all the world would need to never again eat meat.

Instead, the ones that would have to make that sacrifice are the ones who are in a church with such a weak person that they might destroy by using their freedoms.
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
30,353
9,330
NW England
✟1,236,125.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
All you need is the definition of a pastor ( bishop), deacon, church leader from scripture and you have your answer right from scripture. It's cut and dry by definition.

Not really, because church is very different now to what it was after Pentecost.
We have dozens of denominations; I'd be the first to say that we shouldn't, but we have.

Anything beyond that is a humanistic view or twisted words from out of context other portions of scripture. As humans we can make anything work then justify it. Or it's a doctrine formed by churches or denomination outside of what scripture says and we simply swallow the bait because it sounds good.

But you could say that about anything.
Scripture mentions wearing robes, sandals and treating your slaves well. Do we do that? No, we wear clothes appropriate to our culture and most of us don't own slaves.
Scripture does not refer to using computers, power point, visual aids, driving cars, using mobile phones, showing films, having Ministers who wear dog collars or choirs who wear robes etc. Do we do that? Why; if it isn't in Scripture? Is that humanistic? No, it's using what we have to get the Gospel across. They didn't have these things in NT times, so they aren't mentioned in Scripture.

That said there are some great women teachers

Yes, because God calls some women to teach and gives them the gifts to do so.
Paul did not say that any of the gifts of the Spirit - including teacher and Pastor - were for men alone.

There are ordained women pastors who do a great job, ordained by churches, bible schools, ordination boards. If they are ordained by God remains to be seen, we will know one day.

You can know now, if you ask them how God called them and listen to their testimonies.
God called Deborah to be judge over the entire nation; why should he not call a woman to lead a church?

While There are no female pastors we do have many female leaders for bible study, womens seminars etc. We do nothing outside of scripture, at least not deliberately.

Presumably you wear robes and sandals, do not allow women to wear gold, (so no wedding rings in church), do not allow a man to have long hair, (tricky; Paul does not specify the length which is acceptable). Presumably, also, you speak Greek and Hebrew?
Do your male pastors wear dog collars and preside at communion services? That's not Scriptural. Jesus told his disciples to "do this in remembrance of me"; he didn't say they had to wear a dog collar.
And as I said above, Scripture doesn't mention computers and the like - whatever your church does, you are using one now.

Any doctrine that a person/group presents has to be Scriptural.
If someone says, "God told me ...." and that is not a Scriptural teaching by, or about, Jesus; then he didn't. Rather like the Moonies, whose leader claimed that he had seen a vision of Jesus, and Jesus told him, "Rev" Moon, that Jesus had failed while on earth, and he, Moon, was the new Messiah. That is not a Scriptural teaching; Jesus did his Father's will and said "it is finished" on the cross - therefore, "Rev" Moon's claims were untrue.

But there are dozens of cultural teachings and practices in Scripture which we do not do today because we do not have the same culture. Even the Jews don't obey OT teaching about offering animal sacrifices.

Assuming that a society today has to follow the same societal practices in Scripture, is incorrect. It would be like trying to jail a Brit for not obeying the American constitution, or criticising an Eskimo for not wearing a suit and tie for work.
 
Upvote 0

tturt

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 30, 2006
16,124
7,603
✟942,112.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It was Paul's opinion "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." I Tim 2:12

v11 " Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection." Of course, women need to be quiet when learning

Also, in the same chapter, he also instructed "I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting."
Where are the sermons, articles, and threads with strong emphasis / strong opinions on adhering to this Scripture?
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Strong in Him
Upvote 0

Dave G.

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
4,669
5,341
75
Sandiwich
✟368,441.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Not really, because church is very different now to what it was after Pentecost.
We have dozens of denominations; I'd be the first to say that we shouldn't, but we have.



But you could say that about anything.
Scripture mentions wearing robes, sandals and treating your slaves well. Do we do that? No, we wear clothes appropriate to our culture and most of us don't own slaves.
Scripture does not refer to using computers, power point, visual aids, driving cars, using mobile phones, showing films, having Ministers who wear dog collars or choirs who wear robes etc. Do we do that? Why; if it isn't in Scripture? Is that humanistic? No, it's using what we have to get the Gospel across. They didn't have these things in NT times, so they aren't mentioned in Scripture.



Yes, because God calls some women to teach and gives them the gifts to do so.
Paul did not say that any of the gifts of the Spirit - including teacher and Pastor - were for men alone.



You can know now, if you ask them how God called them and listen to their testimonies.
God called Deborah to be judge over the entire nation; why should he not call a woman to lead a church?



Presumably you wear robes and sandals, do not allow women to wear gold, (so no wedding rings in church), do not allow a man to have long hair, (tricky; Paul does not specify the length which is acceptable). Presumably, also, you speak Greek and Hebrew?
Do your male pastors wear dog collars and preside at communion services? That's not Scriptural. Jesus told his disciples to "do this in remembrance of me"; he didn't say they had to wear a dog collar.
And as I said above, Scripture doesn't mention computers and the like - whatever your church does, you are using one now.

Any doctrine that a person/group presents has to be Scriptural.
If someone says, "God told me ...." and that is not a Scriptural teaching by, or about, Jesus; then he didn't. Rather like the Moonies, whose leader claimed that he had seen a vision of Jesus, and Jesus told him, "Rev" Moon, that Jesus had failed while on earth, and he, Moon, was the new Messiah. That is not a Scriptural teaching; Jesus did his Father's will and said "it is finished" on the cross - therefore, "Rev" Moon's claims were untrue.

But there are dozens of cultural teachings and practices in Scripture which we do not do today because we do not have the same culture. Even the Jews don't obey OT teaching about offering animal sacrifices.

Assuming that a society today has to follow the same societal practices in Scripture, is incorrect. It would be like trying to jail a Brit for not obeying the American constitution, or criticising an Eskimo for not wearing a suit and tie for work.
Good points !
Course as I said man and denominations of various sorts can find a way to justify most anything.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
52,836
11,665
Georgia
✟1,058,299.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
1 Timothy 2 speaks about women not teaching men, and 1 Corinthians speaks about women remaining silent in "the churches" (KJV). Is this to be applied universally, or when read in context of the original audience this was intended for is there any room for women today to teach (for example) a Sunday school class for adults that both men and women attend?

The word used there is for 'husbands', so then women not instructing their husbands.

But in the NT we know that both Aquila and Priscilla instructed Apollos. We also know in 1 Cor 14 that when church members came together "each one" had a teaching...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
27,983
7,174
North Carolina
✟329,109.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Mike Winger did a very well-researched video series on this topic. The videos are long and there are a few of them because there are many different things to cover but can't recommend a better resource on this topic.
As for during the main service, no. As a Sunday school teacher over a mixed group of men and women, I don't know but lean towards no. Outside of the church such as on YouTube, as a teacher in a seminary, writing books, sharing on the radio, or something similar to what Aquila and Priscilla did is completely fine.
Seems seminary would be out, based on its nature.
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
30,353
9,330
NW England
✟1,236,125.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Seems seminary would be out, based on its nature.

Priscilla taught.
Some women are given the gift of teaching by the Spirit; Scripture doesn't say it's for men alone.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
52,836
11,665
Georgia
✟1,058,299.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
As a Sunday school teacher over a mixed group of men and women, I don't know but lean towards no. Outside of the church such as on YouTube, as a teacher in a seminary, writing books, sharing on the radio, or something similar to what Aquila and Priscilla did is completely fine.

If "I don't allow a woman to teach a man" then if we replace the gender terms with a name
I don't allow Alice to teach Bill.. How can we then insert "unless it is over the internet or on a chat group, or in a ZOOM class, or in a news letter, or in a math class"??

Suppose Alice wants to teach Bill how to read, or speak English, or drive a car?
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
30,353
9,330
NW England
✟1,236,125.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Suppose Alice wants to teach Bill how to read, or speak English, or drive a car?

:oldthumbsup:
Supposing Alice wanted to teach Bill that something was poisonous/dangerous?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
27,983
7,174
North Carolina
✟329,109.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Priscilla taught.
Some women are given the gift of teaching by the Spirit;
Scripture doesn't say it's for men alone.
It's for men alone when it comes to the assembly (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Paidiske

Clara bonam audax
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2016
35,591
20,012
45
Albury, Australia
Visit site
✟1,672,448.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Female
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
There's no reason to artificially limit the context in which gifts may be exercised.

As for seminary, I'm grateful for the excellent teaching I had from men and women, lay and ordained scholars.
 
Upvote 0