help_the_lord
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I was once against paul until my heart came to life and convicted me as I how it will you
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I was once against paul until my heart came to life and convicted me as I how it will you
Yes, I agree Paul mentioned he is pro works, yet, at the same time, talks about being against works of Torah in his other writings. As I quoted in my OP, is this not "circular reasoning" which is "difficult to understand, and detrimental to understanding" as written in 2Peter?
I believe the main source of all this dissension on that topic is due to the writings of no other than Paul himself.
I am the OPI am not sure I understand why the fact that this is an internet forum, or being in one's home has to do with Paul's commandment.
... and bearing a child too? For apparently that is necessary for your salvation, according to Paul(1Tim 2:15)
Jerm 30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? ... Isaiah 60:16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD [am] thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob ... Theres apparently no virgins in heaven, and kings have breasts (like women do) and travail with child as a woman lol
Thank you for your responses thus far; if you don't mind, I would also like to get back to my original post. Nobody has to date addressed the points I made.There are tons of Paul is a fasle prophet topics, I have been on a couple myself, but I am not interested in wrangling on every point of dispute with Paul.
I was once against paul until my heart came to life and convicted me as I how it will you
Every man must stand upon what he believes but I don't believe Paul was a liar.M testimony is the opposite, but ironically I was following Paul closer then any of you likely was. For I was studying other faiths and indeed tyring to be a chameleon to win everyone that I could by diplomatic compromise but in the end I just wound up playing the harlot like the universal church. So Paul led me into Apostasy and unfaithfulness for which my only consolation was that in My Apostasy I had understood what true Paulianity is all about enough to graduate from the outer court to the inner court and cleanse my faith of the lies. I still reflect on inspiring sermons the use the words of Paul, but his testimony is no greater then any of us and I disagree on the matters of not following God's law, but following man's, that rulers are sent from God and rule over us for our own good, women can't minister, and other lies...
Eh what? That was meant for the original poster!OK I'll bite. Where does it say John was opposed to Paul? The only thing I can think of is John wrote that in the final judgement, we are judged according to our works. (Whereas Paul taught that we are saved entirely through grace and faith).
M testimony is the opposite, but ironically I was following Paul closer then any of you likely was. For I was studying other faiths and indeed tyring to be a chameleon to win everyone that I could by diplomatic compromise but in the end I just wound up playing the harlot like the universal church. So Paul led me into Apostasy and unfaithfulness for which my only consolation was that in My Apostasy I had understood what true Paulianity is all about enough to graduate from the outer court to the inner court and cleanse my faith of the lies. I still reflect on inspiring sermons the use the words of Paul, but his testimony is no greater then any of us and I disagree on the matters of not following God's law, but following man's, that rulers are sent from God and rule over us for our own good, women can't minister, and other lies...
Every man must stand upon what he believes but I don't believe Paul was a liar.
Nay, I believe I am separating the evil from the good - the theme of all of Scripture itself! If result of that is indeed "creating division in the body of Messiah," then so be it.... unless you have other information other than what you already posted then in my humble opinion you are creating division in the body of Christ and are in need of a check up from the neck up.
Eph 3:7
Paul: Seeing that many boast (kauchaomai) after the flesh, I will boast (kauchaomai) also. - 2Cor 11:18 &...Eph 3:8... Least of all saints ... yeah thats boasting.
Someone said something about how they don't like how paul is against the law of God... I see that all the time and it drives me nuts. People don't interperet Paul correctly. I'm going to break down this passage for you guys so you can see it's true meaning and from there better understand what Paul was talking about. You'll clearly see if you pay attention and open your heart he wasn't against the law of God at all.
Amen.What makes Paul's writings "Holy Scripture"? Do you accept the Didache, or the Gospel of Thomas? or, the Gospel of Peter, the Epistle of Barnabas, the Book of Enoch? Which canon of Scripture do you follow, and why? The Protestant canon, the Catholic canon, the various Orthodox canons, Luther's canon, etc.? All of which disagree with one another?
Have you tested Paul according to Elohim's commandments (Deu 13, 18), and according to John's advice? "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." (1Jo 4:1)
Amen.
I have taken matters into my own hands and ripped out the writings of Paul from my Bible.
Have some taken leave of their senses? If the writings of Paul are in the Bible, then there is a justifiable reason why they are there ... the Bible is the word of God. What makes up the Bible is something not done by people, but is a product of God's holy spirit. If the writings of Paul were in some other volume then some may have a good reason to be negative towards it. That it is contained in the Bible, and that it is God's word on things necessary for all people to come to know Him, shows that God wants the Apostle Paul's writings left in. For any who disagree with that, then they can take on the Almighty God and tell Him He got it wrong. Shame on you.
All that attempt to place the monkey of the Jewish law back on the backs of Christians do not like Paul. In doing so they remove from scripture and make Jesus sacrifice for nothing. The law does not save. It never has. Even the blood of goats and bulls did not atone for the sins of the world.
And who put the volume called "the Bible" together, or chose which books were to be found between its covers? As I mentioned in an earlier post, the Protestants and Jehovah's Witnesses call one collection of books "the Bible," yet Roman Catholics call a different collection "the Bible;" the Orthodox also have their own "Bible" which also has different books compared to the Protestants and Catholics. So, which one is the authentic canon, and which one was truly the product of Elohim's Holy Spirit, and why?
All 66 books of scripture are agreed upon by ALL mainstream churches from before the second history. The disagreement relates to the apocryphal books.
What about the fact that Paul's epistles were not generally considered "canon" or "authoritative Scripture" in the first century A.D.? That they were only recognized as such among some groups in the second century? The first century Ebionites, and many of the Nazarenes then (both early "denominations") considered Paul's writings heresy and Paul a false prophet and apostle.
There was no dispute regarding the majority of the epistles of Paul. The books that the early church question were James, Hebrews, and 3 John. Even Peter recognized Paul's writings as scripture.
The fact that Paul's epistles are in your canon does not automatically make them "Scripture". Elohim put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden, allowed Satan in the Garden, allowed Judas to be part of Messiah's inner group of 12, etc. - all for good reason - to test our love for Him, to give us an opportunity to distinguish right from wrong. If the Garden had no such Tree, then there would not have been available to Adam and Evil the opportunity to sin or show their love for Elohim (by rejecting the Tree and falsehood). Perhaps in the same way, Elohim allowed Paul into "the Bible" to test us in the same way.
Gotta love the eisegesis and false analogy.