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Even if there are adaptations & throwbacks & adaptations & throwbacks, nothing "new" evolves?

Gottservant

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Hi there,

So I am pretty sure I would get burned, by Evolutionists, if I brought this up: but I really want to know an answer! If there are adaptations, in a given species and those adaptations don't turn out to be critical, but instead become throwbacks to past generations of the same species and those throwbacks develop "newer" adaptations, in the same species, but then those adaptations don't turn out to be critical, but instead become even more throwbacks - to the same past generations: what is happening to Evolution? Is there no sufficient selection pressure, to have them change significantly (that is, "critically" or more)?

What I 'm trying to say, is that experience on its own should amount to some kind of tangible relationship, with Evolution. Experience keeps instinct in focus, plumbs the depths of relevance, and secures the optimum (to advance with, moving forward). If Evolution can not do anything with "experience" then there is surely something "wrong" with the theory? It is not addressing something that would commit masses of survivability to any given species? The only creation that does not need to make something of experience is a germ and even then most of the time they try to (make something of experience, let the reader note).

This is like the clockwork of Evolution right? That some sort of experience, guides what will be adapted and what not, from generation to generation? For things "Created" this instinct is preemptive - you are expected to go with the experience of the herd -; for things "Evolved" this instinct is recollective - you are expected to hunt first and ask why later. A working ecology takes both of these differences into account and more. I am not suggesting that Evolution has failed, in not accounting as the ecology does, just that some sort of "fraction" of experience should be included in the attempt to understand which selection pressures are beneficial.

The function, if it is anything, is something like the evolution of mitochondria, in keeping with the experience of the DNA upheld by the individuals of the species. I admit this is where my knowledge of Evolution is tested - I don't know what the soul does with the difference between DNA and mitochondria; I think it's basically a choice that we experience as a relevance, from moment to moment, between what happens and what we would prefer to happen. It would help to have the words of Jesus here! In any case, knowing there is a choice of Evolutions is helpful - if not least, that it helps us maintain our focus on God (what He would have us do, and why). I don't know, I guess I am more ignorant than I thought I would be. If you have suggestions, please offer them!

I suppose preliminarily, the point is to make our experience count for more - something it does in spades, as Created by God, but which needs to be reapproached for Evolution's sake (as it is here?). I don't mean to make work for Evolution, just so, but there are clearly finishing touches that still need to be addressed.

Thanks for watching.
 

Tolworth John

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If there are adaptations, in a given species and those adaptations don't turn out to be critical, but instead become throwbacks to past generations of the same species and those throwbacks develop "newer" adaptations, in the same species, but then those adaptations don't turn out to be critical, but instead become even more throwbacks - to the same past generations: what is happening to Evolution? Is there no sufficient selection pressure, to have them change significantly (that is, "critically" or more)?

Genetic information is like a pack of cards, one can shuffle those cards all one likes, deal them out but the information in those cards remains the same.
New cards do not arise.
What happens is those playing cards get worn, damaged and somehow they start to representdifferent information.
Normally the repair system in dna cuts out and replaces worn/damaged sections.
It is when this replacement/repair function itself is not working propperly or is overwhelmed by damaged sections that mutations creep into the dna.

The question evolutionist have to answer is.
How does new genetic information arise?
New as the information to make legs, muscles etc for legs in a legless creature. Where does it come from/arise.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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As a believer in theistic evolution, I have to say that every species was new at some point.. and there are thousands of thousands of them that have shown up in history. That is not really an argument. God created the earth in a way that it would, first, bring forth life. He empowered (with His word) the very soil and water to bring forth life. God created life indirectly... but the dirt and water are his "life-making" machine. The earth is a life factory empowered by His word.
 
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The Barbarian

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Genetic information is like a pack of cards, one can shuffle those cards all one likes, deal them out but the information in those cards remains the same.
New cards do not arise.

Happens all the time. A gene mutates to a new allele, and you have new information. If it weren't for mutations, you'd be right. But mutations are a fact.

The question evolutionist have to answer is.
How does new genetic information arise?

Mutation. What do you know about information theory, and how information is calculated? If you like I could show you the math for a simple case of mutation increasing information. Would you like to see that?

New as the information to make legs, muscles etc for legs in a legless creature. Where does it come from/arise.

New research reveals that the limbs of the earliest four-legged vertebrates, dating back more than 360 million years ago, were no more structurally diverse than the fins of their aquatic ancestors.


The new finding overturns long-held views that the origin of vertebrates with legs (known as tetrapods) triggered an increase in the anatomical diversity of their skeletons.

Evolutionary leap from fins to legs was surprisingly simple

Developmental genes in fish produce appendages on two body segments, in pairs. In some fish, these appendages have become useful for grasping or walking, such as mudskippers, walking catfish, sargrassum fish, and Acanthostega.

The important thing is that land animals were, by their evolutionary history, limited to four limbs, with the same basic bones and musculature.

iu
 
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The Barbarian

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As a believer in theistic evolution, I have to say that every species was new at some point.. and there are thousands of thousands of them that have shown up in history. That is not really an argument. God created the earth in a way that it would, first, bring forth life. He empowered (with His word) the very soil and water to bring forth life. God created life indirectly... but the dirt and water are his "life-making" machine. The earth is a life factory empowered by His word.

Today's winner.
 
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Gottservant

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I think the point I was trying to make, is that: nothing new evolves, on top of what has already evolved - in a cellular sense.

As in, there are many cells, but they all take the same definition - they don't make a new "definition".

A new nuance, perhaps, but not a new definition (in other words, "a new nuance to an old definition").
 
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SavedByGrace3

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I believe, as Genesis 1 states, that the water and the dirt itself was empowered by the Words of God to bring forth life.

Genesis 1:11 KJV
11. And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Genesis 1:20 KJV
20. And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Genesis 1:24 KJV
24. And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

If life were to completely vanish off the earth... the dirt and water would (through time) eventually bring forth life again. The Word of God is in the dirt and water. The power and design is in the very makeup.
 
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Gottservant

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If life were to completely vanish off the earth... the dirt and water would (through time) eventually bring forth life again. The Word of God is in the dirt and water. The power and design is in the very makeup.

I like this idea so much, I just can't quite accept that God would necessarily use dirt and water a second time. You know, the whole rainbow thing, that God would not flood the Earth again. I agree it is possible (for God to create again), just not likely.
 
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The Barbarian

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So I am pretty sure I would get burned, by Evolutionists, if I brought this up: but I really want to know an answer! If there are adaptations, in a given species and those adaptations don't turn out to be critical, but instead become throwbacks to past generations of the same species and those throwbacks develop "newer" adaptations, in the same species, but then those adaptations don't turn out to be critical, but instead become even more throwbacks - to the same past generations: what is happening to Evolution? Is there no sufficient selection pressure, to have them change significantly (that is, "critically" or more)?

Darwin wrote about that. He pointed out that a well-adapted population, in an unchanging environment, would be prevented by natural selection, from evolving much.

It's called "stasis." And it's a common occurrence for most species, which tend to evolve fairly quickly and then have a long period of stasis.
 
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