Eligible for ashes on Ash Wednesday ?

[banish'd]

I am not divorced or anything like that, but when I was widowed from my first wife I was only free to marry a non-divorced Catholic. However, I could only find a non-divorced Protestant, so married her outside the church. That excommunicated me.

Now I am wondering whether I am eligible for ashes on Ash Wednesday?

 

[Eucharisted]

First, get out of the illegal marriage.

Second, you can receive ashes.

 

[Winter]

First, get out of the illegal marriage.

Um, I wouldn't put it quite that way.

Dear Banished,
Why not give your local priest a call and see what he says? Talking to a priest about this would be a great way to start the Lenten season.
May the Lord guide you and bless you during this Lenten season.

 

[St.Mark]

Banished

I to would encourage you to speak to a priest. My story is very similar to yours. I lost my wife of 24 years to an auto accident. She and I were both Catholic, and to tell the truth I wish I had known more about my faith while she was alive. I was born Catholic and just as so many have, I went through the motions of being on again off again without experiancing the riches that the Catholic faith has to offer. I had always known that the Catholic Church was the true Church but never really took the time to study why.

In dating again I fell in love with a with a beautiful woman who is Baptist, I attended a Baptist Bible Study with her and it opened several doors for me as a Catholic. It moved me to begin a true study of my Catholic faith and has brought me ever closure to it.

After speaking with a priest, she and I made the decision to marry outside of the Church, she is divorced and did not agree with the concept of an Annulment. I still attend Mass and though I cannot partake of the Sacraments at this time, I can still receive the blessings of the Church, including Ashes.

I did make a choice not to follow the teachings of The Church and accept that I'm no longer in a state of Grace. I pray daily that my wife will come to the Catholic faith or at least start the Annulment process to work towards me being able to fully participate in the Sacraments again. If I die tomorrow I hope and pray that God will have compassion on me and through the intercession of the Saints grant me everlasting life.

In your case if your wife has received a valid Baptism, being of water and in the name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit all that is necessary is for your marriage to be validated by the Church. Talk to a priest, go to Mass, and pray for strength and guidance.

 

[banish'd]

St. Mark,

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Yes, the Catholics are good at fixing divorce cases with Annulments and Dispensation papers from the Bishop. They do that all the time. Matthew 19 clearly states that you committed Adultery when you married a divorced woman.

"And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery." (Matthew 19:9)

My marriage is entirely different, because there was no divorce, adultery, or fornication involved with either of my two marriages. Jesus Himself pointed to God the Father and the Creation when asked by the Pharisees about marriage. (Matthew 19:3-6) That makes marriage an Ordnance of God the Father, and therefore, sanctified by God the Father.

"The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Matthew 19:3-6)

Both my second wife and I were baptized and confirmed Catholics when we were married in a Protestant Church, so the Catholic argument is that it was our choice to leave the Catholic Church. (pure politics in my opinion)

My argument is that we will be Catholics until the day we die, and the Pope doesn't have the authority to over rule God the Father in the sanctity of marriage.

Truthfully, I feel justified to get in the Communion line, but for some reason I respect the stupidity of the Pope. Jesus gave the Church to him. Protestant music isn't all that bad, either, plus Our Lady trumps the Pope.

 

[Rhamiel]

St. Mark,

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Yes, the Catholics are good at fixing divorce cases with Annulments and Dispensation papers from the Bishop. They do that all the time. Matthew 19 clearly states that you committed Adultery when you married a divorced woman.

"And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery." (Matthew 19:9)

My marriage is entirely different, because there was no divorce, adultery, or fornication involved with either of my two marriages. Jesus Himself pointed to God the Father and the Creation when asked by the Pharisees about marriage. (Matthew 19:3-6) That makes marriage an Ordnance of God the Father, and therefore, sanctified by God the Father.

"The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Matthew 19:3-6)

Both my second wife and I were baptized and confirmed Catholics when we were married in a Protestant Church, so the Catholic argument is that it was our choice to leave the Catholic Church. (pure politics in my opinion)

My argument is that we will be Catholics until the day we die, and the Pope doesn't have the authority to over rule God the Father in the sanctity of marriage.

Truthfully, I feel justified to get in the Communion line, but for some reason I respect the stupidity of the Pope. Jesus gave the Church to him. Protestant music isn't all that bad, either, plus Our Lady trumps the Pope.

"pure politics" well the Church is a community, it is the Body of Christ, we can not treat denominations like being equal to the Church that Christ gave us to lead all mankind to Him
have you talked about getting your marriange blessed by the Catholic Church?

 

[Winter]

Yes, I think the priest may suggest that he could bless your marriage. And from there you should be able to take communion. But then again, I know plenty of other Catholics who never married in the Church, never got their marriage blessed, and still attend Mass and receive communion. But having a discussion with a priest will help answer these questions.

 

[banish'd]

Rhamiel and Winter,

Thanks for the help. I will tell you why I think it's political.

I live in California, and we have had millions upon millions of divorced Catholics in the past few years. Practically every Catholic I have known is divorced. All they had to do is take a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and bull story to a priest, and go through the process with the Bishop to get back in communion with the Church.

During my marriage my wife was a baptized and confirmend Catholic, but she was a member of a Protestant Church when I married her. I was still in communion with the Catholics. Believe this or not, our marriage is considered to be so filthy and dirty that we are supposed to stop sleeping together at once. Now mind you, our California parishes are full of divorsed people, and through a bogas system of paper work, they are back in communion with the Church.

Needless to say, my wife and I are not going to sleep in seperate bedrooms, so that the Church can win a political struggle with the Protestants. Okay?

Second Vatican Council authorized Chrismatic Renewal, and both my wife and I are Charismatic Catholics who were out worshiping with the Protestants under the Ecumenism of that Council. But, the political wind has changed in favor of divorced Catholics. It's as simple as that. We were sucked into Ecumenism as Chrismatic Catholics.

No priest has mention blessing our marriage to us. What is that?

 

[Rhamiel]

Rhamiel and Winter,

Thanks for the help. I will tell you why I think it's political.

I live in California, and we have had millions upon millions of divorced Catholics in the past few years. Practically every Catholic I have known is divorced. All they had to do is take a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and bull story to a priest, and go through the process with the Bishop to get back in communion with the Church.

During my marriage my wife was a baptized and confirmend Catholic, but she was a member of a Protestant Church when I married her. I was still in communion with the Catholics. Believe this or not, our marriage is considered to be so filthy and dirty that we are supposed to stop sleeping together at once. Now mind you, our California parishes are full of divorsed people, and through a bogas system of paper work, they are back in communion with the Church.

Needless to say, my wife and I are not going to sleep in seperate bedrooms, so that the Church can win a political struggle with the Protestants. Okay?

Second Vatican Council authorized Chrismatic Renewal, and both my wife and I are Charismatic Catholics who were out worshiping with the Protestants under the Ecumenism of that Council. But, the political wind has changed in favor of divorced Catholics. It's as simple as that. We were sucked into Ecumenism as Chrismatic Catholics.

No priest has mention blessing our marriage to us. What is that?

i understand that you are upset with how divorce is treated as not important.
Marriages done outside the Church are reconized as legit, they are not sacremental though, i think that you can get your marriage blessed and it will be accepted.
I do not really know what to say, it sounds like you feel hurt and betrayed by the Church, i do not really know what to say to you...
i am sorry

 

[banish'd]

Rhamiel,

There must be a stronger word than betrayed? How would you like to be widowed at a young age, do everything according to the Bible and Canon Law which included marring a non divorced baptized Catholic, and then slip up on one tiny detail? Then have to sit in church the rest of your life as an excommunicated Catholic who has never been divorced or married a divorced woman, and be surrounded by divorcees who are in communion with the Pope. It's a joke!

Anyway, tell me more about the Priest Blessing our marriage without going through the Bishop. I know that if I spend enough money on Canon Lawyers there is a loop hole somewhere. Maybe, retroactive dispensation at the time we were married.

 

[Rhamiel]

Rhamiel,

There must be a stronger word than betrayed? How would you like to be widowed at a young age, do everything according to the Bible and Canon Law which included marring a non divorced baptized Catholic, and then slip up on one tiny detail? Then have to sit in church the rest of your life as an excommunicated Catholic who has never been divorced or married a divorced woman, and be surrounded by divorcees who are in communion with the Pope. It's a joke!

Anyway, tell me more about the Priest Blessing our marriage without going through the Bishop. I know that if I spend enough money on Canon Lawyers there is a loop hole somewhere. Maybe, retroactive dispensation at the time we were married.

i am sorry, one tiny detail? what did you forget to get married in the Church? i find it kind of odd that you see this as a tiny detail,
as for getting your marriage blessed, i do not know if it can be done without going through the Bishop, but i do not see why that would be a problem. i do not know a lot about this, i have never been married

 

[Winter]

Dear Banished,

I can understand your frustration and anger. Once upon a time the church used extreme language such as, "betrayed", "illegal", etc. This is no longer the case and you will find that its "calmed down" about viewing these kinds of matters. For a better understanding on where the church is coming from, here it is in a nutshell (I'll do my very best though I'm no expert). The Catholic Church does view your marriage as a legitimate, legal, Christian marriage. But the church also views a marriage as a sacrament, whereas other denominations don't. Since the other denomination you were married in didn't treat your marriage as a sacrament, the church views that this "rite of passage" wasn't blessed as such. So, approach the priest and ask him to pray and bless your marriage.

Alot also depends on the priest you discuss this with. There are some that do not communicate very well and/or are out of touch with things. So if you don't like the response you get from one, seek another that you can speak with.

We Catholics often misunderstand our Church's teachings. It wasn't till I was alot older and began to study things that there was some clarity. As far as I understand the church will always see you as a Catholic. If I come across further information, I will share that with you.

 

[banish'd]

i am sorry, one tiny detail? what did you forget to get married in the Church? i find it kind of odd that you see this as a tiny detail,
as for getting your marriage blessed, i do not know if it can be done without going through the Bishop, but i do not see why that would be a problem. i do not know a lot about this, i have never been married

Rhamiel,

For a man the marriage ceremony is no big deal, and it only takes a few minutes. Just show up with a ring bearer. I assume that your age is 24? How do I get my age up into my avatar? I am age 69.

Eventually, you will have to find a wife. If you follow Canon Law you will most likely end up getting divorced like so many Catholics are nowadays. I am not suggesting the Mormon Church, but their divorce rate per ward is less than 3%, I think it's down around 1.5%. Get the idea? The faithfull pay their child support, and the excommunicated are happily married. It's a crazy system if you ask me. Well, at least I am back in for Ash Wednesday.

 

[Winter]

Blessing a marriage is called "Convalidation." And its often used for Catholics who were never married in the Catholic Church and later get their marriage blessed and recognized as a sacrament. It is an involved process and I think it would be up to you and your wife to determine "how involved" you two want to be in the Catholic Church. If you are seeking to be reintegrated into the Church, then it will be a process you may feel worth it. Otherwise, if your heart is not into the Church then you may find such a process too confounding.

I guess alot of it is based on to what degree you are seeking to be with the church.

It seems like you hold alot of anger towards the church, so you may want to ask yourself if you really truly want to be part of the church again if you hold such anger.

Just giving you my honest feedback. I do understand though how frustrating this can be.

 

[banish'd]

Dear Banished,

I can understand your frustration and anger. Once upon a time the church used extreme language such as, "betrayed", "illegal", etc. This is no longer the case and you will find that its "calmed down" about viewing these kinds of matters. For a better understanding on where the church is coming from, here it is in a nutshell (I'll do my very best though I'm no expert). The Catholic Church does view your marriage as a legitimate, legal, Christian marriage. But the church also views a marriage as a sacrament, whereas other denominations don't. Since the other denomination you were married in didn't treat your marriage as a sacrament, the church views that this "rite of passage" wasn't blessed as such. So, approach the priest and ask him to pray and bless your marriage.

Alot also depends on the priest you discuss this with. There are some that do not communicate very well and/or are out of touch with things. So if you don't like the response you get from one, seek another that you can speak with.

We Catholics often misunderstand our Church's teachings. It wasn't till I was alot older and began to study things that there was some clarity. As far as I understand the church will always see you as a Catholic. If I come across further information, I will share that with you.

Winter,

You brought up a good point. Many priest are simply out of touch with modern times, and do not communicate. Here in California the NO priests are not available during weekdays, so the only way to talk to one is in the confession booth. Both the church and diocese have a form letter that tells us to enroll in a class. What are the priests doing during the week? They are probably with their secret wife and kids? What do you think?

I am a senior, so I remember the Latin Mass, and that is the only Mass that I am interested in. Over in Oakland we have St Margaret Mary where the Latin Mass is celebrated 7 days a week. Low Mass every week day evening and High Mass on Sunday. During the Latin Mass there is always a priest taking concessions before Mass and during the first part of the Latin Mass.

That church is under the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest, and when I go into the booth to confess the priest cuts me off as soon as I mention my marriage. He always says the same thing, "Don't approach the Eucharist". At that church everyone kneels up at the rail and puts their hands under the cloth, just like in the old days. I had been doing the same, but when priest came by I crossed my arms across my chest. I assume that "Don't approach the Eucharist" means for me to stay back from the rail? That is why I was wondering about Ash Wednesday, because I will have to approach the rail.

By the way, I am absolutely positive that Christ the King Sovereign Priest is doing it correctly. There is no doubt about that.

The choir with pipe organ singing Gregorian Chants at high mass is awesome. It's like being a Catholic again. If you guys vacation in San Francisco, it's worth the trip over to Oakland for Sunday High Mass.

 

[Winter]

Dear Banished,

Is it difficult to reach a priest even if you call the parish office? Surely there must be a way to discuss this with him outside of the confession booth. Is there no other parish that can help you with this? Its quite unusual for a priest to be unavailable during the week. I've never encountered that before, but perhaps things are different at your neck of the woods. That is quite disappointing.

Yes, the High Latin Mass is wonderful. I'm glad to hear you still attend. I just did a search on Christ the King Sovereign Priest and read their info - very interesting! - I'd never heard of them.

You will be in my prayers. I do hope that you can participate in ashes and communion. It seems you hold this in very high regard which some Catholics simply ignore. Please keep us posted on things.

 

[banish'd]

Winter,

What grieves me most about the Catholics is that they don't really believe the Gospel of John. It's an easy matter for them to say that Christ is present in the Eucharist, and then follow Canon Law to the letter. But do they really believe John Chapter Six?

Ask yourself this question: How could human nature allow a person to be so cruel as to deny the bread of life if that person actually did believed that the Eucharist was the bread of life?

John 6 simply says that Jesus will raise us up on the last day. Read it for yourself:

"I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:48-54)

If you have noticed, I use the King James Version of the Bible now.

 

[Rhamiel]

Winter,

What grieves me most about the Catholics is that they don't really believe the Gospel of John. It's an easy matter for them to say that Christ is present in the Eucharist, and then follow Canon Law to the letter. But do they really believe John Chapter Six?

Ask yourself this question: How could human nature allow a person to be so cruel as to deny the bread of life if that person actually did believed that the Eucharist was the bread of life?

John 6 simply says that Jesus will raise us up on the last day. Read it for yourself:

"I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:48-54)

If you have noticed, I use the King James Version of the Bible now.

how can the Catholic Church with hold the Eucharist? for the protection of the people, if you eat unworthily you eat your own destruction, Christ gave us a Church, and through your own actions you have left it, you decided that you did not want the Church to preside over your marriage but rather a man made denomination, you turned your back on what God has made and picked up what man has made. even in the Bibles you use, you have stoped using the translations that the Church has approved of and have picked up one written by worldy kings. You defame priests scoffing at them and accusing them of having "secret wives and children" even if this is just sarcasm it is still making fun of something that is consicrated to God.
I hope i do not sound too harsh, but you seem to be blaming the Novus Ordo mass, the priests, divorced catholics, catholics who got annulments and even the Pope, but you do not seem to want to take any of the blame.

 

[banish'd]

Well, it's not hard to find a defender of the faith within the Catholic ranks, is it?

And you are absolutely correct in assuming that I don't take the blame for being widowed and then marring a non divorced baptized Catholic. Everything is right with God.

 

[Rhamiel]

Well, it's not hard to find a defender of the faith within the Catholic ranks, is it?

And you are absolutely correct in assuming that I don't take the blame for being widowed and then marring a non divorced baptized Catholic. Everything is right with God.

i am so sorry if my last post was overly harsh
why do you want to recieve ashes on wensday?