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Does 'VICARIUS FILII DEI' exist and can '666' be applied to it?

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stray bullet,

I would think that for a Latin name one should use Roman numerals, for a Greek name Greek numerals, for a Hebrew name Hebrew numerals, and for an English name English numerals.

One thing about Ellen White is that, as far as I know, no one ever claimed that she wore her name on her forehead or was a high priest or wore a miter.

Greek uses a different alphabet and a different system of numerical letters.

Vicarius Filli Deo does have a greek version, but it wouldn't add up to 666 if spelled in Latin or Greek alphabets.

Just so you know, the Pope doesn't have his name on his forehead and isn't the High Priest. In Catholicism, Jesus is the High Priest.
 
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Regarding the following quote from John Paul II's book:

Does "takes the place" mean anything more than "ambassador" or "representative"? Or is that all it means within Catholicism and all it meant to John Paul?

No, it doesn't mean anything more than being a representative or ambassador.

Jesus was our Earthly leader until His death. His apostles spoke on behalf of God, through the Holy Spirit, in scripture, on His behalf. The pope, the successor of Peter, for Catholics, is the leader of the Church on Earth, although Christ remains the Heavenly leader and husband.

When the Pope dies, he will be just like all of us in Heaven. Just like the apostles, he has a special role to lead in the absence of Christ on Earth.
 
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Just so you know, the Pope doesn't have his name on his forehead and isn't the High Priest. In Catholicism, Jesus is the High Priest.
Isn't "Pontifex Maximus" the equivalent of "high priest"?

Aaron in Exodus was said to have the golden plate on his forehead when it was on his miter. Thus something being on a miter was said to be on the forehead.

Since Our Sunday Visitor said that Vicarius Filii Dei was on the miter, I would think that would put it on his forehead.

In Catholicism, would Jesus also be the head of the church? I would think that would be the case, even as Jesus is the chief cornerstone, as Peter puts it in one of his epistles. Yet somehow Peter and the popes end up with the same "titles." How does that work? Because they are His representatives?
 
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According to Catholic authorities, the Pope is not just a mere human priest,

"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty." ---Pope Leo XIII

...but for the mystical apology she made of the apostolic office of the successor of Peter. Who can forget it? She saw in him "the sweet Christ on earth," to whom is owed filial love and obedience, because, "He who will be disobedient to Christ on earth, who stands in the stead of Christ in heaven, will not share in the fruit of the blood of the Son of God." And, anticipating not only the teaching but the very language of Vatican II, the Saint wrote to Pope Urban VI, "Most holy Father . . . ---Homily by Pope Paul VI on October 1, 1970,

... In founders and foundresses we see a constant and lively sense of the Church, which they manifest by their full participation in all aspects of the Church's life, and in their ready obedience to the Bishops and especially to the Roman Pontiff. Against this background of love towards Holy Church, "the pillar and bulwark of the truth" (1 Tim 3:15), we readily understand the devotion of Saint Francis of Assisi for "the Lord Pope", the daughterly outspokenness of Saint Catherine of Siena towards the one whom she called "sweet Christ on earth", the apostolic obedience and the sentire cum Ecclesia of Saint Ignatius Loyola, and the joyful profession of faith made by Saint Teresa of Avila: "I am a daughter of the Church". --- Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation VITA CONSECRATA

"The Pope is the supreme judge of hte law of the land. He is the Vicar of Christ and he is not only a priest forever but is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords!" ---Lacivlica Catlica.

"The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a man but as it were God and the Vicar of God. The Pope is called Most Holy because he is rightfully resumed to be such, Pope alone called the Most Holy because he alone is the Vicar of Christ who is the fountain, an source of all holiness. He is likewise the supreme emperor and the King of Kings. Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown as King of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions. Moreover the superiority and the power of the Roman pontiff by no means only pertain to heavenly things but to earthly things and to things under the earth but is even over angels of whom he is greater but if it were possible for angels to error of the faith or contrary to the faith, they could be judged and excommunicated by the Pope. The Pope as it were God on earth so sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief King of Kings, having plentitude of power. "---Catholic Dictionary, 1918.

"God Himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of His priest, and either not to pardon or to pardon, according as they refuse or give absolution...The sentence of the priest precedes, and God subscribes to it." ---Dignity and Duties of the Priest. Vol 12, p2.
 
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Isn't "Pontifex Maximus" the equivalent of "high priest"?

Aaron in Exodus was said to have the golden plate on his forehead when it was on his miter. Thus something being on a miter was said to be on the forehead.

Since Our Sunday Visitor said that Vicarius Filii Dei was on the miter, I would think that would put it on his forehead.

In Catholicism, would Jesus also be the head of the church? I would think that would be the case, even as Jesus is the chief cornerstone, as Peter puts it in one of his epistles. Yet somehow Peter and the popes end up with the same "titles." How does that work? Because they are His representatives?

Pontifex Maximus was the title of the pagan high priest of the Ancient Roman College of Pontiffs.

Pontifex Maximus means the supreme bridge builder between mortality and immortality.

How did the Pope get this title? I thought only Jesus is the bridge, the way.
 
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stray bullet

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Isn't "Pontifex Maximus" the equivalent of "high priest"?

No. It means supreme pontiff, which obviously makes sense.

Aaron in Exodus was said to have the golden plate on his forehead when it was on his miter. Thus something being on a miter was said to be on the forehead.

Since Our Sunday Visitor said that Vicarius Filii Dei was on the miter, I would think that would put it on his forehead.

It does not appear on any of the pope's miters.

In Catholicism, would Jesus also be the head of the church? I would think that would be the case, even as Jesus is the chief cornerstone, as Peter puts it in one of his epistles. Yet somehow Peter and the popes end up with the same "titles." How does that work? Because they are His representatives?

Jesus is the head of the Church, but the pope is the head in Earthly terms. Just like a pastor may be in charge of an individual church, but protestants would say he is nothing more than an earthly figure head.
 
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According to Catholic authorities, the Pope is not just a mere human priest,

"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty." ---Pope Leo XIII

...but for the mystical apology she made of the apostolic office of the successor of Peter. Who can forget it? She saw in him "the sweet Christ on earth," to whom is owed filial love and obedience, because, "He who will be disobedient to Christ on earth, who stands in the stead of Christ in heaven, will not share in the fruit of the blood of the Son of God." And, anticipating not only the teaching but the very language of Vatican II, the Saint wrote to Pope Urban VI, "Most holy Father . . . ---Homily by Pope Paul VI on October 1, 1970,

... In founders and foundresses we see a constant and lively sense of the Church, which they manifest by their full participation in all aspects of the Church's life, and in their ready obedience to the Bishops and especially to the Roman Pontiff. Against this background of love towards Holy Church, "the pillar and bulwark of the truth" (1 Tim 3:15), we readily understand the devotion of Saint Francis of Assisi for "the Lord Pope", the daughterly outspokenness of Saint Catherine of Siena towards the one whom she called "sweet Christ on earth", the apostolic obedience and the sentire cum Ecclesia of Saint Ignatius Loyola, and the joyful profession of faith made by Saint Teresa of Avila: "I am a daughter of the Church". --- Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation VITA CONSECRATA

"The Pope is the supreme judge of hte law of the land. He is the Vicar of Christ and he is not only a priest forever but is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords!" ---Lacivlica Catlica.

"The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a man but as it were God and the Vicar of God. The Pope is called Most Holy because he is rightfully resumed to be such, Pope alone called the Most Holy because he alone is the Vicar of Christ who is the fountain, an source of all holiness. He is likewise the supreme emperor and the King of Kings. Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown as King of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions. Moreover the superiority and the power of the Roman pontiff by no means only pertain to heavenly things but to earthly things and to things under the earth but is even over angels of whom he is greater but if it were possible for angels to error of the faith or contrary to the faith, they could be judged and excommunicated by the Pope. The Pope as it were God on earth so sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief King of Kings, having plentitude of power. "---Catholic Dictionary, 1918.

"God Himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of His priest, and either not to pardon or to pardon, according as they refuse or give absolution...The sentence of the priest precedes, and God subscribes to it." ---Dignity and Duties of the Priest. Vol 12, p2.

The problem with these quotes is that someone went around snipping people out of context to try and make the pope out to be something he is not.

The Catholic Church has a well documented and explained philosophy and dogma of beliefs. Any Catholic can open up the Catechism of the Catholic Church and find a series of messages on what the Church teaches on a variety of topics.

The problem is, people can't find fault with what we actually believe. So they basically make out some kind of conspiracy theory, as though the Church *really* believes one thing, which is secretly only revealed through snipped quotes from obscure books and sources.

Such assertions about what the Church thinks and teaches seem absurd to Catholics, because they blatantly contradict thousands upon thousands of quotes and resources regarding what we actually believe.


Regarding the pope, the Church actually believes:
The pope is the successor of Saint Peter. He is the Earthly head of the Church. Jesus is the full head of the Church and the high priest. The Pope leads the Church as a representative or ambassador of Christ until His return. However, the Pope will always fall short because he is only a man.

The pope's status is that of an apostle, because we believe he is the successor of one of the original ones. So while he is a leader and leads in Christ physical absence, he is just a man.
 
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stray bullet

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Pontifex Maximus was the title of the pagan high priest of the Ancient Roman College of Pontiffs.

Pontifex Maximus means the supreme bridge builder between mortality and immortality.

How did the Pope get this title? I thought only Jesus is the bridge, the way.

Pontifex means "Pontiff", Maximus means "Supreme". Pontiff was a Latin word for a religious or political leader.
 
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Lets what some credible sources say...

No. It means supreme pontiff, which obviously makes sense.

Columbia Encyclopia, Sixth Edition, 2001-05
Pontifex Maximus: highest priest of Roman religion and official head of the college of pontifices. As the chief administrator of religious affairs he regulated the conduct of religious ceremonies, consecrated temples and other holy places, and controlled the calendar. During the time of the empire, and until Christianity became firmly established, the emperor was designated pontifex maximus. After the supremacy of Christianity, the popes assumed the title.

It does not appear on any of the pope's miters.

'Our Sunday Visitor' April 15th, 1915 edition disagrees with that.

There are dozens of Catholic publications some written by popes themselves quoted Vicarius Filii Dei as the pope's title.
 
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stray bullet

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Columbia Encyclopia, Sixth Edition, 2001-05
Pontifex Maximus: highest priest of Roman religion and official head of the college of pontifices. As the chief administrator of religious affairs he regulated the conduct of religious ceremonies, consecrated temples and other holy places, and controlled the calendar. During the time of the empire, and until Christianity became firmly established, the emperor was designated pontifex maximus. After the supremacy of Christianity, the popes assumed the title.

The encyclopedia is right, but the problem is, the translation of the title means "Supreme Pontiff" and a pontiff is a religious leader. Do you agree with that or not?

For pagans, being the supreme pontiff, religious leader of Rome meant what you described.

Pagans also used the title 'priest' and yet we refer to Jesus as the 'high priest'.



'Our Sunday Visitor' April 15th, 1915 edition disagrees with that.

There are dozens of Catholic publications some written by popes themselves quoted Vicarius Filii Dei as the pope's title.
Can you show me one publication a pope wrote using that? It doesn't actually matter, because it is not his title.

As far as "Our Sunday visitor" you are referring to a US publication from 100 years ago 'revealing' the secret conspiracy. When you have to refer to something as obscure and old as that to support your claim, doesn't that seem a little odd to you? Why not just refer to the Catechism? Why do you have to refer impossible to find publications from US Catholics from the beginning of last century to discover the 'truth', instead of actually from the source (Vatican)? It seems to me that certain people have to dig through all kinds of rare and obscure things to construct a story about we believe instead of actually addressing what we truly believe.
 
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Pontifex means "Pontiff", Maximus means "Supreme". Pontiff was a Latin word for a religious or political leader.

You need to take another look.

Of Time and the Reiver Magazine article by Edd Doerr; The Humanist, Vol. 55, March 1995Subjects:John Paul II, Pope--Appreciation, Man of the Year selections--1994 AD, Time (Periodical)--Achievements and awards...smile) from the magazines December 26, 1994, cover: his holiness John Paul II, the holy father, supreme pontiff, and pontifex maximus (a pretentious title borrowed from the ancient emperors of Rome, meaning "the supreme bridge between heaven and earth...

Of Time and the Reiver Magazine article by Edd Doerr; The Humanist, Vol. 55, March 1995Subjects:John Paul II, Pope--Appreciation, Man of the Year selections--1994 AD, Time (Periodical)--Achievements and awards...smile) from the magazines December 26, 1994, cover: his holiness John Paul II, the holy father, supreme pontiff, and pontifex maximus (a pretentious title borrowed from the ancient emperors of Rome, meaning "the supreme bridge between heaven and earth...

Of Time and the Reiver Magazine article by Edd Doerr; The Humanist, Vol. 55, March 1995Subjects:John Paul II, Pope--Appreciation, Man of the Year selections--1994 AD, Time (Periodical)--Achievements and awards...smile) from the magazines December 26, 1994, cover: his holiness John Paul II, the holy father, supreme pontiff, and pontifex maximus (a pretentious title borrowed from the ancient emperors of Rome, meaning "the supreme bridge between heaven and earth...

Forward to the Past Magazine article by Edd Doerr; The Humanist, Vol. 53, November 1993Subjects:Catechisms--Evaluation, Catholic Church, Creeds...pontiff" (why do the media insist on using that ridiculous term that the popes borrowed from the ancient Roman emperors-pontifex maximus, the "bridge between heaven and earth"?) to avoid controversy or perhaps even embarrassment in a religious body already...

Books: The Gods of the Romans Live on; the Romans and Their Gods. R M Ogilvie. Pimlico. Pounds 10 Newspaper article by Ciaran Mckeown; The News Letter (Belfast, Northern Ireland), April 17, 2000...more than another 300 years. Caesar was of course pontifex maximus, which originally meant the greatest bridge-builder...written by theologians; and of course, the Pope as pontifex maximus, the Supreme Pontiff or bridge-builder, was an obvious...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontifex_Maximus
Pontifex Maximus,
The term pontifex literally means "bridge-builder" (pons + facere); Maximus literally means 'the greatest', i.e. the highest. This was perhaps originally meant in a literal sense: the position of bridge-builder was indeed an important one in Rome, where the major bridges were over the Tiber, the holy river (and a deity, at the same time); only prestigious authorities, with sacral functions, could be allowed to "disturb" it with mechanical additions. However, it was always understood in its symbolic sense as well: the pontifices were the ones who smoothened the bridge between gods and men (Van Haeperen). It has besides been noted that in ancient India similar concepts were in use in similar ages, here too ideally regarding rivers and bridges.
The word pontifex is also related to the Etruscan word pont, 'road', or 'preparer of the road'.[2] The word has also been thought by some to be a corruption of a similar-sounding but etymologically unrelated Etruscan word for priest, but this theory is a minority opinion.
 
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"Today, "Pontifex Maximus" is one of the titles of the Bishop of Rome as Pope of the Catholic Church. As a papal title, the translation Supreme Pontiff" - wiki

"
Pontiff is a title of certain religious leaders, now used principally to refer to the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church." - wiki

"The word pontifex is commonly held to derive from the Latin root words pons, "bridge" + facere, "to do" or "to make", with a literal meaning of "bridge-builder". This, however, is disputed - it may be only a folk etymology [1]. See Pontifex for more details on the original Roman term." - wiki
 
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The problem with these quotes is that someone went around snipping people out of context to try and make the pope out to be something he is not.

The Catholic Church has a well documented and explained philosophy and dogma of beliefs. Any Catholic can open up the Catechism of the Catholic Church and find a series of messages on what the Church teaches on a variety of topics.

The problem is, people can't find fault with what we actually believe. So they basically make out some kind of conspiracy theory, as though the Church *really* believes one thing, which is secretly only revealed through snipped quotes from obscure books and sources.

Such assertions about what the Church thinks and teaches seem absurd to Catholics, because they blatantly contradict thousands upon thousands of quotes and resources regarding what we actually believe.
If all these quotes were one sentence, I'd say maybe they were taken out of context. But these are paragraphs. Can you show what they really meant in the context?

Regarding the pope, the Church actually believes:
The pope is the successor of Saint Peter.

Peter was never a pope. Peter wasn't even the head of the church of Jerusalem. Read Acts15.

He is the Earthly head of the Church. Jesus is the full head of the Church and the high priest. The Pope leads the Church as a representative or ambassador of Christ until His return. However, the Pope will always fall short because he is only a man.

The pope's status is that of an apostle, because we believe he is the successor of one of the original ones. So while he is a leader and leads in Christ physical absence, he is just a man.

Jesus Himself said He would send the holy spirit in His absence, not a mortal man.
 
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Sophia7

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Discussion here is limited by Rule 1.4, so I need to ask those who are not Adventists to avoid debating in this thread. However, I have started a new thread in Denomination-specific Theology:
http://www.christianforums.com/t515...i-dei-exist-and-can-666-be-applied-to-it.html

I would like to invite you all to continue this discussion there, where Catholics are allowed to defend and explain their beliefs. It would be more fair to discuss the teachings of other churches in an area where they can respond more freely if they feel that their beliefs are being misrepresented.
 
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stray bullet

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At any rate, I am overextended my stay here and I have no right to debate here, which I have been desperately trying to do, so I'll have to leave.

If you have to piece a story together using a rare article from 1915, a wikipedia article about the original pontiff and obscure one line references to books no one has ever heard before to explain what Catholics belief, do you think that is really being honest? Do you think it might be possible that these sources are collected by people that have a real issue with a Church and dig through all kinds of stuff, like there was some grand conspiracy that can only be found out with wikipedia and a page from "Our Sunday visitor"?

Just look up the Catechism or any Catholic site, or ask any Catholic and they will explain what we believe regarding the pope. Don't read article from radicals SDAs who have an axe to grind against the Catholic Church for what *we* believe.

If anyone has any more questions, feel free to send me a PM or ask in GT or OBOB.
 
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stray bullet

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I'll finish up with this post :)

If all these quotes were one sentence, I'd say maybe they were taken out of context. But these are paragraphs. Can you show what they really meant in the context?

Sure, come to OBOB or post in GT about it.

Peter was never a pope. Peter wasn't even the head of the church of Jerusalem. Read Acts15.

Yes, James was the head of the Church of Jerusalem. Peter didn't become the head of the Roman Church until after the time of Acts. It was actually towards the end of his life. Rome was were he was martyred- martyrdom being predicted by Jesus (John 21), but not recorded in Acts.

Jesus Himself said He would send the holy spirit in His absence, not a mortal man.

We believe in the power and the importance of the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit isn't a physical being, but a spiritual one. While the Holy Spirit wrote the NT, He wrote it through the apostles.

Bye :wave:
 
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Here are some more things I have come across, first read this:

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/et_146.htm

Then notice how it is presented by Walter Veith as a 'title' of the Pope, which is more correct in Samuele Bacchiocchi veiw, in the following:


"....In Revelation 13, two beasts are described that will dominate world events at the end of time. The first arises out of the sea and the second out of the earth. Moreover, the second beast pays homage to the first beast by causing all that dwell upon the earth to worship the first beast and in so doing they receive the mark of the beast. Again, by applying the Biblical definitions to the symbols employed in this great prophecy, we can unravel its mysteries...."

"....The core symbols are beasts, heads, horns, sea, dragon and earth. A beast is a king or a kingdom (Daniel 7:17) and the two beasts of Revelation 13 thus represent two kingdoms or political powers that dominate world events in the last days. The first beast arose out of the sea, representing the nations, the multitudes, peoples, and kings as defined in Revelation 17:15 where the waters were said to symbolize the nations of the earth. In contrast, the second beast arises out of the earth thus representing the opposite of nations, multitudes and kingdoms; therefore, it must arise in areas of the world where nations, multitudes, and kings were not established.

The first beast has ten horns, which remind us of the fourth beast in Daniel 7 which referred to Rome with its ten horns. The seven heads of the first beast represent historic time periods, but the number seven is also the divine number thus indicating that this beast lays claim to deity. The attributes of the beast are further described, and the similarities with the little horn power of Daniel 7 are seen to be the same as those of this beast. They must be seen as one and the same and we are thus dealing with Rome in its papal form ..... This beast has leopard, bear and lion characteristics, which we recognize again from Daniel. The order in which these three beasts appear here in Revelation is the reverse seen in Daniel. This is because Daniel was looking ahead and John was looking back.

... and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat and great authority. Revelation 13:2

The dragon is identified as Satan in Revelation 12:9.

The little horn power of Daniel 7 had the following attributes in common with the first beast of Revelation 13:
-it spoke great things and blasphemies (Verse 5)
-it made war with the saints (Verse 7)
-it overcame the saints (Verse 7)
-it was more stout than its fellows, or authority was given him over every tribe, tongue and nation (Verse 7)
-it was given authority to continue forty-two months/1260 days (Verse 5)
John's vision parallels that of Daniel 7 and the imagery and attributes of the beast out of the sea link it directly with the little horn power. However, the imagery is enlarged, in that the beast also incorporates components of the lion, the bear, the leopard and the terrible ten-horned beast, which were symbols of the kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. There is a distinct reason for this, as the Church of Rome has incorporated and refined many of the systems of worship and styles of governance of the kingdoms of antiquity into its own systems. The absolute power of the ruling monarch, the infallibility of his decrees, the total subservience of his officers, the hierarchy of its elite and the many secret organizations that make her power absolute are all inherited from the kingdoms of old. Rome also maintains many of the rites and vestments of the bear; the triple crown worn by the Pope, made of solid gold, is of Persian origin- 'King of Heaven, and of Earth, and of the Nether World,' as well as the rites and titles of Mithraism. The rites and ceremonies dating from the Grecian and Babylonian periods form the basis for most of the liturgies, festivals and grand ceremonies observed by the Roman Church. Even the titles used by presentday Popes are the same as those used in early pagan religions and by the monarchs who were seen as representatives of the gods and even as gods themselves.

As the power of pagan Rome declined, the power of papal Rome increased as the church accumulated more and more power and influence. When the emperor Constantine accepted the veneer of Christianity and Paganism and Christianity blended into one, Rome became the religious capital of the world.

Abbot's Roman History, p.236 declares:
The transfer of the emperor's residence to Constantinople was a sad blow to the prestige of Rome, and at the time one might have predicted her speedy decline. But the development of the Church, and the growing authority of the Bishop of Rome, or the pope, gave her a new lease on life, and made her again the capital � this time the religious capital � of the world.

From 538 A.D., when the emperor Justinian issued a decree, proclaiming the pope to be supreme in religious matters he assumed the garb of representative of Jesus Christ on earth. When Constantine moved his seat to Constantinople, the popes inherited the power of the Roman emperors - their prestige, and even their titles. The most significant of such titles was that of: 'Pontifex Maximus' a pagan title for 'Bridgebuilder between Heaven and Earth'. Moreover, the Roman clergy also wore the same vestments of the priests of Dagon, the fish-god. The fishhead mitre, worn by bishops and popes is also the same as the ancient mitre used by the priesthood of Babylon. The keys of the pagan female and male god figures have also become a symbol of the papacy, as are his staff, which is the symbol of the snake, and was carried by ancient emperors from Babylonian through Egyptian to Roman times. The keys became the 'keys of Peter' and the staff became a shepherd's staff, christianizing these pagan artifacts. The papacy is but the ghost of the Roman Empire, sitting crowned upon its grave. Stanley's History, page 40.

The symbol of the forty-two months that the beast power would have authority (Revelation 13:5) is the same time period as that of the little horn power in Daniel 12:7. The little horn would rule for a 'time, times and half a time.' Time, times and half a time, forty-two months, and 1260 days are the same time period written in different forms. This can be deduced from Hebrew parallelism. In Revelation 11:2,3 we have the parallelism of a pagan power that would tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months, but that God's witnesses would witness and prophecy during those 1260 days, thus equating forty-two months with 1260 days. A further example we find in Revelation 12:6 where the woman fled into the wilderness, and was taken care of for 1260 days. As the woman stands for a church, this represents the church being taken care of in the solitary places of the world, during the period of papal supremacy. The parallel text to this is found in Revelation 12:14 where again the woman flees into the wilderness to be taken care of for a time, times, and half a time, thus equating the 1260 days to a time, times, and half a time. The Bible mentions this prophetic period seven times and in each case it refers to the papacy. It began in 538 A.D. and ended in 1798 when the Papacy appeared to receive a deadly wound. Papal supremacy of the Middle Ages ended in the year 1798, exactly 1260 years after the establishment of the papacy as the supreme Christian power in 538 A.D. by Justinian's decree. In 1798, General Berthier, Napoleon's general, took the pope captive and put him into exile.

During its period of supremacy, the pope wielded more power than did even the emperors of Rome. The historian Gibbon said that Pope Innocent III was more supreme in the world than any Caesar that ruled the empire. Kings laid their crowns at the feet of the pope, and had him crown them. They kissed the pope's slipper to show their subjection. Any king who rebelled was dethroned. King John of England was one example, and he was excommunicated by the pope. The only way he could be reinstated was to lie a day and a night on a cold marble floor naked. The king complied. Henry the IV, emperor of Germany, had to stay four days in the rain and snow before the pope would grant him an audience. The pope was supreme over all nations and peoples.

And his deadly wound was healed and all the world wondered after the beast. Revelation 13:3

Since the papacy had apparently lost its political status after the pope's capture in 1798, the beast, which represents a kingdom or political system, was, for all intents and purposes, dead. It could only be resurrected as a beast if it regained its viable political status. In 1929, Mussolini and Gaspari signed an Accord whereby the Pope had to pledge his own political party's support to Mussolini in exchange for the return and acknowledgment of his papal seat and power. From 1929 onward, the political status of the Vatican was thus reinstated and the apparent wound could heal. Since then the power and influence of the papacy has again grown to worldwide proportions,

Papal Rome had always been an ecclesiastical as well as a secular power, combining church and state. It was also able to enforce any laws it wished. When she wielded power during the middle ages she claimed:
The Church may by Divine Right confiscate the property of heretics, imprison their persons, and condemn them to the flames.

This statement emphasizes the power which Rome wielded, and will once again wield upon the earth. In one of his encyclicals, Dies Domini, issued on May 7, 1998, Pope John Paul asked for civil legislation to support the observance of Sunday, although the sanctification of Sunday rests only on papal premises.

When, through the centuries, she has made laws concerning Sunday rest, (109) the Church has had in mind above all the work of servants and workers, certainly not because this work was any less worthy when compared to the spiritual requirements of Sunday observance, but rather because it needed greater regulation to lighten its burden and thus enable everyone to keep the Lord�s Day holy. In this matter, my predecessor Pope Leo XIII in his Encyclical Rerum Novarum spoke of Sunday rest as a worker�s right which the State must guarantee ... Therefore, also in the particular circumstances of our own time, Christians will naturally strive to ensure that civil legislation respects their duty to keep Sunday holy. (DIES DOMINI)

In a further Apostolic letter,AD TUENDAM FIDEM, issued on May 18, 1998, the pope uses the term heretic for the first time since the healing of the wound and warned disobedient members of the flock that they will be punished if they do not accept papal authority in matters of doctrine.
Can. 1436 � 1. Whoever denies or places in doubt any truth that must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or repudiates the Christian faith as a whole, and does not come to his senses after having been legitimately warned, is to be punished as a heretic or as an apostate by major excommunication; a member of the clergy, furthermore, can be punished by other penalties, not excluding deposition. 2. Aside from such cases, whosoever rejects a doctrine proposed, as definitively to be held, by the Roman Pontiff or the College of Bishops exercising their authentic Magisterium, or else accepts a doctrine condemned by them as erroneous, and does not come to his senses after having been legitimately warned, is to be punished by an appropriate penalty. AD TUENDAM FIDEM
Imperceptibly and stealthfully, Rome is preparing to once again enforce her decrees, just as the Bible predicts. In the secret recesses of her grand buildings and in the legislative halls of the world's political powers the stage is being set for the final confrontation between those aligned with the Prince of Darkness and those who stand under the blood-stained banner of Prince Emmanuel.

In Daniel 7 and Revelation 13:5, it states that the beast power would be a blasphemous power. Pope Leo boasted:
We hold upon earth the place of God Almighty. God Himself is obliged to abide by the judgments of His priests on whether to pardon or not to pardon. The pronouncement of the priest precedes and God subscribes to it St. Alphonsus de Liguori, Dignities and Duties of the Priests, New York: Benziger Brothers, 1888, p. 27,28

Not one of these statements has been rescinded in recent years, even since Vatican II.
Know you not that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are, to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness. Romans 6:16
A final attribute of the sea beast is that it has a number, and this number is the number of a man.
Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred, threescore and six. (666) Revelation 13:18

Modern interpretations of this prophecy apply the 666 in many ways. The questions we need to ask ourselves are: Did this entity persecute the saints for 1260 years? Did it say it was God? and Does it claim to forgive sins? The text clearly states that it is a man�s number, but also that of the beast. Does the number 666 apply to the papacy, and is it the number of a man, bringing it in line with the 'man of sin' recorded in the Scriptures?

One of the official titles of the pope is VICARIUS FILII DEI "Vicar of the Son of God". This can be verified in the papal canons issued during the past years.
Latin letters have a numerical value and the title Vicarius Filii Dei adds up to 666. (V=5,I=l,C=100,U=5,L=50 and D=500). Greek letters also have numerical value. And if the official titles of the Roman Church in both her secular and religious capacity are examined, then the number 666 is again prominent. The title ITALIKA EKKLESIA (I=10,T=300,A=1,L=30,I=10,K=20,A=1,E=5,K=20,K=20,L=30,�=8,S=200,I=10,A=1) meaning "Italian Church" totals 666.The Greek title [SIZE=-1]HE LATINE BASILEIA[/SIZE](H=0,E=8,L=30,A=1,T=300,I=10,N=50,E=8,B=2,A=1,S=200,I=10,L=30,
E=5, I=10, A=1) meaning "The Latin Kingdom" also totals 666 as does the title "Dux Clerici" (D=500, U=5, X=10, C=100, L=50, E=0, R= 0, I=1) meaning "head of clergy", and "Lateinos" (L=30,A=1, T=300,E=5, I=10,N=50,O=70,S=200) meaning "latin speaking man"....." excerpts from 'Truth Matters' by Walter Veith.
 
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reddogs

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Now check these facts that I came across:

* Dizionario di erudizione storico-ecclesiastica da S. Pietro sino ai nostri giorni(Dictionary of Historical-Ecclesiastical Erudition from St. Peter to the Present), [SIZE=-1]by Gaetano Moroni[/SIZE], 103 volumes and 6 volumes of indexes printed in Venice by Tipografia Emiliana between 1840 and 1861. The title appears in volume 99, page 21, in the entry for VICARIO DI GESU' CRISTO [Vicar of Jesus Christ], where it states very briefly that the inscription Vicarius Filii Dei is to be found in the Vatican. [ Vol. 99 title page - Vol. 99 pg. 21, GIF format ]

"The title Vicarius Christi, as well as the title Vicarius Filii Dei is very common as the title of the Pope". [The Quasten document]
 
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Cliff2

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If you have time to read some interesting rhetoric on this here is some veggie burger to chew on.
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/RCC&history/Vicarius-Felii-Dei.pdf

I find it hard to accept something that was taught as fact for so long was actually a fabrication. According to the author of the article above the insignia was removed around 25 years ago. Why would they do that?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

If I recall correectly it was about 100 years ago that it was found that there was no tiara with those words on.

It was either the Review or Ministry magazine that said not to use it again. That was now close to 60 years ago.

It does not alter too much of what we believe. Just one point gone, still many left.
 
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