Does the first trumpet precede or follow after that of the 6th seal?

[DavidPT]

Couple corrections in this, hopefully it can straighten things out.
First off, Revelation 7 between the 6th seal and first trumpet, has the saints in heaven, having come out of Great Tribulation. I do not believe this is a flash forward. This is actually Chronological. because the 7th seal happens after, and the angels (those who would blow the trumpets) are told not to hurt the earth until the servants of God were sealed.
The Great Tribulation, in this narrative of Revelation 4-11, is the 5th seal, because tribulation is specifically persecution throughout the bible.
Secondly, Chapters and Verses are not inspired.
So I believe that the first part of Revelation 11, regarding the 2 witnesses, is part of the section of scripture that fits with Revelation 10, rather than Chronological during the trumpets. I don't believe that there are 1260 days between the 6th and 7th trumpets.

Let's do a little hermeneutics
The 6th seal, notice the language of the earthquake.
Now Revelation 11


So what do we have here? a rapture and a great earthquake. If we take Revelation 7 into account with the great multitude.. what'd we have at the 6th seal? A rapture and a great earthquake.
are there 2 raptures and 2 great earthquakes? Or are they the same?

But you might be thinking Revelation 16's great earthquake, let's look at the details of that Earthquake vs the details of the Revelation 11 great earthquake. Revelation 11 great earthquake, 10% of Jerusalem collapses, and 7000 people die.

Now Revelation 16


Now.. maybe some people see these events as all being the same? But this 7th vial earthquake seems to be much stronger than the one in Revelation 11, which destroyed 10% of a city. But Revelation 16? It splits Jerusalem into 3 parts, and cities all over the world collapse.

Now, finally, the secret to Revelation is, divide the book into 2 Narratives. They are 2 witnesses of the same events. That's why the 144000 are mentioned twice, that's why there's 2 versions of great tribulation, one focusing on the mark of the beast, and one focusing on martyrs. That's why the saints are in heaven after Jesus shows up on the clouds (6th seal and Revelation 14:14-20) in chapters 7 and 15, showing them having overcome great tribulation. Chapter 7 says it is great tribulation, chapter 15 says they overcame the mark of the beast. It's just different details within narratives like from 2 points of view.
The key is Revelation 10:7.


In essence, the 7th trumpet is the last event in this Narrative. When Revelation 11:15 happens, it's ushering in the Millennial Kingdom. Revelation 12 restarts with a new narrative, going back to the birth of Jesus, and focusing on different details. If you go Chronological and have it continue after the 7th trumpet? You've just had Jesus claim His kingdom for ever and ever.... then hand it back over to Satan to give to the beast in Revelation 13:2. That doesn't make any sense does it?
But dividing the book in half? It makes sense once you see it.

That is how it is post-trib, pre-wrath.

Jesus is on the clouds in the 6th seal, which is after the 5th seal's martyrs/great tribulation, and before the 7 trumpets that are the wrath of the lamb.

Jesus is on the clouds in Revelation 14, after the mark of the beast, which is yes, great tribulation, but before the wrath of God. Revelation 14 has absolutely insurmountable timing to consider. Because it explicitly has Jesus on the clouds before the wrath of God, but after the mark of the beast. The wrath of God is explicitly stated in the 7 vials in Revelation 15.

Your view is somewhat complex. Maybe not to you, but to me it is. You make some interesting connections that I maybe need to look into further first. So, if and or until I look further into some or all of these proposed connections, I can't really address much of your post yet.

Though, I don't fully grasp your view yet, but if it is agreeing with the timeline in Matthew 24, it will probably be hard to find fault with it in that case. Personally though, having all of the trumpets meaning as of verse 29 onward, I already see that contradicting the timeline in Matthew 24, not agreeing with it. If the 5th seal records the martyrdom occurring during the 42 month reign, that has to be meaning during the great trib not during what is recorded in Matthew 24:29. How can the 42 month reign of the beast not involve any of the trumpets?

 

[Douggg]

Various thing happen during these intervals. Understanding why these intervals are there is not that easy to know!

Which is why timeline charts (a correctly done one) are so helpful.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 7 begs to differ.

And why do you think that?

The great multitude in Revelation 7 are ones coming out of the great tribulation time period - i.e. they will have died during that time.

 

[keras]

The great multitude in Revelation 7 are ones coming out of the great tribulation time period - i.e. they will have died during that time.

This idea is wrong and leads to your error of mis-placing the Sixth Seal.
The vast multitude of people from every tribe, race, nation and language; are living Christians.
They passed safely thru the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. As just described in Rev 6:12-17
The Lord will select the 144,000 out of them. Revelation 14:1-5

 

[keras]

I fully agree, except the way you go about reasoning that is making nonsense out of chronology involved.

The chronology of Revelation is plainly stated;
The seals come first and Seals 1 to 5 are already opened. To unroll a scroll, the seals have to be removed first.
The next Seal is the 6th and it will set the stage for all the end times events.
The Seventh Seal is just a time gap - of about 20 years.

Only during the final 3 1/2 years, do the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls take place.

 

[tranquil]

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

If the first trumpet is after the 6th seal, and that the 6th seal records Christ's coming, thus the rapture, this obviously means so is the 2nd trumpet through the 7th trumpet after the 6th seal. Which then means anyone holding to a view like this, they are all Pretribbers regardless what they call their rapture position. Revelation 13 records the great tribulation, and that it has to fit either during the 2ws testimonies or after the 2ws are finished giving their testimonies. We know the time of the 2Ws involve the 6th trumpet. We know that the 6th trumpet is after the first trumpet, but not meaning right after, but after trumpets 2-5 are sounded first. So, meaning after the first trumpet like that.

This is what the timeline of events would like like if the first trumpet is after the 6th seal, and this is not even taking into account the vials of wrath.

The 6th seal events, which record Christ's coming, which means the rapture takes place during the 6th seal. Followed by the 7th seal and the silence for 1/2 hour. Followed by the 1st trumpet. Followed by the 2nd trumpet. Followed by the 3rd trumpet. Followed by the 4th trumpet. Followed by the 5th trumpet. Followed by the 6th trumpet. Followed by the 7th trumpet.

All 7 of these trumpet events would be meaning after the rapture if the 6th seal records Christ's coming. Which also means the rapture is before the great trib, thus making this position Pretrib. Some call their rapture view an Anytime Rapture, some call their rapture view a Midtrib rapture, and some call their rapture view Prewrath. It all means Pretrib though, assuming the 6th seal records the rapture and that the 7 trumpets are after the 6th seal, which means so is the great trib after the rapture since that is meaning after the 2ws finish their testimony recorded during the 6th trumpet.

Yet, the great trib precedes the rapture, making the rapture Post trib. Therefore, the first trumpet could not possibly be after the 6th seal events. Either that, or the 6th seal does not actually record the coming of Christ, thus the rapture. But if it does record the rapture, this means that the first trumpet can't be after the 6th seal since this would make the rapture Pretrib.

The way around this in order to avoid a Pretrib rapture, a rapture that is not Biblical, take the 42 month reign of the beast, for instance. Since that records the great trib and is at least connected with the 6th trumpet, that means that doesn't fit after the 6th seal, it fits prior to it, meaning during the little season recorded in the 5th seal, thus making the 6th trumpet prior to the 6th seal. And if the 6th trumpet is prior to the 6th seal, then so must the 1st trumpet be prior to the 6th seal.

the problem here is in understanding 'being gathered' which is not a whisked away rapture.

The trumpets begin the great tribulation, obviously? A third of mankind is killed at the 6th Trumpet...

Imagine it like this: A Democrat calls himself God. Republicans and Christians would reject this - and be gathered. But we know that people are not done worshiping idols as per Revelation 9:20-21. This is the end of the great tribulation, for now.

Then the Republican that had become leader of Republicans and Christians demands to be worshiped at the end of the 2 witnesses 1260 days. This would be the 'beast from the sea' (for example) and he would be 'given a mouth' (meaning a false prophet of some sort).

But there is also the False Prophet that unites both Republicans and Democrats, to the exclusion of Christians (hopefully people do not equate Republicans to Christians). Maybe this False Prophet tells people to worship the Republican, maybe the prior Democrat. Either way, it will unite the country/ world. Christians that are excluded (or rather, they would exclude themselves) would be gathered together.

There are not multiple 'whisked away' raptures, say at the 'great multitude' of Rev 7 and the 'come up here' to the 2 witnesses at the end of the 2nd woe/ start of the 7th Trumpet, just progressing as being gathered as in a process.

 

[Jamdoc]

Your view is somewhat complex. Maybe not to you, but to me it is. You make some interesting connections that I maybe need to look into further first. So, if and or until I look further into some or all of these proposed connections, I can't really address much of your post yet.

Though, I don't fully grasp your view yet, but if it is agreeing with the timeline in Matthew 24, it will probably be hard to find fault with it in that case. Personally though, having all of the trumpets meaning as of verse 29 onward, I already see that contradicting the timeline in Matthew 24, not agreeing with it. If the 5th seal records the martyrdom occurring during the 42 month reign, that has to be meaning during the great trib not during what is recorded in Matthew 24:29. How can the 42 month reign of the beast not involve any of the trumpets?

the 42 month reign does involve the trumpets. Here is a key verse for understanding.

Matthew 24

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

For the elect, the 42 month reign is not 42 months, we don't know how much it's shortened by except it has to be at least 5 months to accommodate for the 5th trumpet. Some pre wrath teachers like Nelson Walters believes the wrath of God will be the same length of time as Noah's flood, that is 1 year, 10 days.
I don't establish a hard timeframe. Afterall, we do not know the day or the hour of Jesus' return right? That's something I find that post trib has to struggle with.

Pre-trib: unknown imminent date any time for the past 2000 years and going.
Pre-wrath: unknown date, becomes imminent after the abomination of desolation, we're given signs to watch for up to that point.
Post-trib: known date of 1290 days after the abomination of desolation. If you'll notice, at the 6th vial Satan gathers troops to Armageddon, because he knows the dates. You don't gather an army and have them camp at a battleground indefinitely waiting, that's a logistics nightmare. They have to know the window of time they're operating in. That's why our intelligence knew that Ukraine was going to be invaded. Because you don't just put troops in the field in those numbers indefinitely without any action.

Here's the thing with Matthew 24 and is one of the greatest bits of scripture evidence that pre-wrath uses:
Jesus' signs up to His return describe the first 6 seals, but nothing like the trumpets or vials. Why? Because they were irrelevant for His audience. Which unlike dispensationalist pretribbers may have taught you, the audience for the Olivet Discourse was not pharisees or unbelieving Jews.
It was 4 believers asking Jesus in private. Mark names them.
After describing His return, which matches the signs of the 6th seal of Revelation, Jesus goes into parables. He does not describe the wrath of God as it is in Revelation, but He does describe the wrath of God. The wicked servant who had joined in the persecution of his brethren and was eating and drinking with sinners (which Jesus ate and drank with sinners, why would that be a big deal? Think about WHEN they are eating and drinking during the great tribulation and what they have to do to buy or sell?). The wicked servant has his portion with the hypocrites and is cut to pieces, a euphemism of the wrath of God. See Jesus was not saying He returns and then nothing else happens just instant nuke of the world and now GWT, as a post trib would propose, but rather Jesus comes back after tribulation (persecution by men), and avenges tribulation by pouring out His wrath on those who persecuted. That's what the wrath of God, the trumpets and bowls are all about, recompense, vengeance.
Next He goes into the parable of the 10 virgins. Now, I want pretribbers to deeply pray about their beliefs and understand what this parable teaches.
The 5 wise virgins are taken by the groomsman (Jesus) into the wedding feast. Then the door is shut. Jesus does not tell the 5 foolish virgins they can come back later. He dismisses them outright and says He does not know them. They tried to come to Him too late.
There are no 'tribulation saints'
Once Jesus appears, things have been decided. You can't have faith in Jesus when everyone in the world has undeniably seen Him in the sky.

John 20

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Proverbs 1

24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord:

Thirdly the parable of the talents. Possibly the most terrifying parable for me being disabled, and unable to even convince my own mother of the Gospel (she recently just told me to stop talking about Jesus and clarified that I cannot convince her to believe what I believe)

and finally the sheep and the Goats.

All of these parables have 1 thing in common... and that is when Jesus comes, it is decision time. It's not just, Jesus comes, raptures the church, and then people can come to faith afterward.
That is something that post trib and pre wrath have in common, that there aren't people getting saved after the second coming.. and before a pretrib tries to tell me that the rapture and the second coming are different? Check 1 Thessalonians 4, the Lord descends from heaven.
It is NOT what you see in Left Behind.

anyway. What I believe is at some unknown date during the 42 month reign, Jesus comes back, when unexpected (which many who know the bible, having not seen a "pre trib rapture" occur, will then start assuming post trib and be able to count the days), and the 42 month reign still continues, just the saints are taken away, remember the verse says for the elect's sake the days are cut short. Not for the rest of the world, just for the elect.

actually, I think important to this understanding is Jesus' first parable at the end of Matthew 24.. the wicked servant. Why does he say "My lord delayeth his coming"? That implies that the servant expected his master to come earlier.
well, something the servant did not expect to happen happened that makes him change his mind about when his lord was coming.
Pre-trib rapture didn't happen and he finds himself in the great tribulation (Mark of the Beast, and Christians being martyred, probably rounded up into camps Holocaust style), he either doubts his lord IS coming, or believes He is coming much later, or, doesn't believe that this is actually the mark of the beast, and he has to do what he has to do to survive, takes the mark, and is an accomplice with the persecutors.

 

[Jamdoc]

And why do you think that?

The great multitude in Revelation 7 are ones coming out of the great tribulation time period - i.e. they will have died during that time.

does it say they all died? No.
Some died and were resurrected,
others were raptured.
They're all doing things that people with bodies do, and it's different than the 5th seal where they're described as souls, and they're complaining.
Totally different attitude.

 

[Douggg]

does it say they all died? No.
Some died and were resurrected,
others were raptured.
They're all doing things that people with bodies do, and it's different than the 5th seal where they're described as souls, and they're complaining.
Totally different attitude.

No rapture/resurrection event referred to in regards to the great multitude - in the text.

The great multitude appears to be saints not martyred, but will have died during the great tribulation by other causes - like war (the red horse), famine (the black horse), and sickness.

The martyred tribulation saints are a special category that is as you say in the 5th seal.

 

[Jamdoc]

No rapture/resurrection event referred to in regards to the great multitude - in the text.

The great multitude appears to be saints not martyred, but will have died during the great tribulation by other causes - like war (the red horse), famine (the black horse), and sickness.

The martyred tribulation saints are a special category that is as you say in the 5th seal.

They have bodies is the thing that I point out. They're not described as souls, but as redeemed saints, WEARING clothes, HOLDING objects.

 

[Douggg]

They have bodies is the thing that I point out. They're not described as souls, but as redeemed saints, WEARING clothes, HOLDING objects.

In the story of Lazarus and the Rich man after they had died, with one on the righteous side of hell called Abraham's bosum, and the other on the unrighteous side of hell - the rich man experienced thirst and also asked Abraham to send Lazarus to just dip his finger in some water so that the rich man could taste it. So they had some sort of body - but it was not a resurrected glorified eternal life body.

 

[Jamdoc]

In the story of Lazarus and the Rich man after they had died, with one on the righteous side of hell called Abraham's bosum, and the other on the unrighteous side of hell - the rich man experienced thirst and also asked Abraham to send Lazarus to just dip his finger in some water so that the rich man could taste it. So they had some sort of body - but it was not a resurrected glorified eternal life body.

It's difficult to determine if that was a parable or a real account.
as Jesus didn't name people in parables usually this would be the one exception. But he also doesn't name the rich man and the rich man's story is told in the same style as a parable "a certain rich man"

If it was a parable then it can't really be said that Jesus was saying people in hell or heaven as spirits have bodies.
What John witnesses in Revelation 6 at the 5th seal he describes as souls.
Not so in Revelation 7 or 15
which makes me think resurrected bodies.

 

[claninja]

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

If the first trumpet is after the 6th seal, and that the 6th seal records Christ's coming, thus the rapture, this obviously means so is the 2nd trumpet through the 7th trumpet after the 6th seal. Which then means anyone holding to a view like this, they are all Pretribbers regardless what they call their rapture position. Revelation 13 records the great tribulation, and that it has to fit either during the 2ws testimonies or after the 2ws are finished giving their testimonies. We know the time of the 2Ws involve the 6th trumpet. We know that the 6th trumpet is after the first trumpet, but not meaning right after, but after trumpets 2-5 are sounded first. So, meaning after the first trumpet like that.

This is what the timeline of events would like like if the first trumpet is after the 6th seal, and this is not even taking into account the vials of wrath.

The 6th seal events, which record Christ's coming, which means the rapture takes place during the 6th seal. Followed by the 7th seal and the silence for 1/2 hour. Followed by the 1st trumpet. Followed by the 2nd trumpet. Followed by the 3rd trumpet. Followed by the 4th trumpet. Followed by the 5th trumpet. Followed by the 6th trumpet. Followed by the 7th trumpet.

All 7 of these trumpet events would be meaning after the rapture if the 6th seal records Christ's coming. Which also means the rapture is before the great trib, thus making this position Pretrib. Some call their rapture view an Anytime Rapture, some call their rapture view a Midtrib rapture, and some call their rapture view Prewrath. It all means Pretrib though, assuming the 6th seal records the rapture and that the 7 trumpets are after the 6th seal, which means so is the great trib after the rapture since that is meaning after the 2ws finish their testimony recorded during the 6th trumpet.

Yet, the great trib precedes the rapture, making the rapture Post trib. Therefore, the first trumpet could not possibly be after the 6th seal events. Either that, or the 6th seal does not actually record the coming of Christ, thus the rapture. But if it does record the rapture, this means that the first trumpet can't be after the 6th seal since this would make the rapture Pretrib.

The way around this in order to avoid a Pretrib rapture, a rapture that is not Biblical, take the 42 month reign of the beast, for instance. Since that records the great trib and is at least connected with the 6th trumpet, that means that doesn't fit after the 6th seal, it fits prior to it, meaning during the little season recorded in the 5th seal, thus making the 6th trumpet prior to the 6th seal. And if the 6th trumpet is prior to the 6th seal, then so must the 1st trumpet be prior to the 6th seal.

the 7 trumpets should follow the sealing of the servants:

Revelation 7:3 Do not harm the land or sea or trees until we have sealed the foreheads of the servants of our God.”

Revelation 9:4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

And should end the same time as the 6th seal:

Revelation 11:18The nations were enraged,c and Your wrath has come.

revelation 6:17 17For the great day of Theirc wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

 

[keras]

It's difficult to determine if that was a parable or a real account.

The Parable of Abraham and the rich man, is a homily; a story just to illustrate a truth.
That truth is how our chance for redemption is NOW.

Thinking that it proves an immediate placement in heaven or hell, upon death; is wakadoodle.
That idea makes a contradiction of many scriptures.

 

[Chris Thomas Shepherd]

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

If the first trumpet is after the 6th seal, and that the 6th seal records Christ's coming, thus the rapture, this obviously means so is the 2nd trumpet through the 7th trumpet after the 6th seal. Which then means anyone holding to a view like this, they are all Pretribbers regardless what they call their rapture position. Revelation 13 records the great tribulation, and that it has to fit either during the 2ws testimonies or after the 2ws are finished giving their testimonies. We know the time of the 2Ws involve the 6th trumpet. We know that the 6th trumpet is after the first trumpet, but not meaning right after, but after trumpets 2-5 are sounded first. So, meaning after the first trumpet like that.

This is what the timeline of events would like like if the first trumpet is after the 6th seal, and this is not even taking into account the vials of wrath.

The 6th seal events, which record Christ's coming, which means the rapture takes place during the 6th seal. Followed by the 7th seal and the silence for 1/2 hour. Followed by the 1st trumpet. Followed by the 2nd trumpet. Followed by the 3rd trumpet. Followed by the 4th trumpet. Followed by the 5th trumpet. Followed by the 6th trumpet. Followed by the 7th trumpet.

All 7 of these trumpet events would be meaning after the rapture if the 6th seal records Christ's coming. Which also means the rapture is before the great trib, thus making this position Pretrib. Some call their rapture view an Anytime Rapture, some call their rapture view a Midtrib rapture, and some call their rapture view Prewrath. It all means Pretrib though, assuming the 6th seal records the rapture and that the 7 trumpets are after the 6th seal, which means so is the great trib after the rapture since that is meaning after the 2ws finish their testimony recorded during the 6th trumpet.

Yet, the great trib precedes the rapture, making the rapture Post trib. Therefore, the first trumpet could not possibly be after the 6th seal events. Either that, or the 6th seal does not actually record the coming of Christ, thus the rapture. But if it does record the rapture, this means that the first trumpet can't be after the 6th seal since this would make the rapture Pretrib.

The way around this in order to avoid a Pretrib rapture, a rapture that is not Biblical, take the 42 month reign of the beast, for instance. Since that records the great trib and is at least connected with the 6th trumpet, that means that doesn't fit after the 6th seal, it fits prior to it, meaning during the little season recorded in the 5th seal, thus making the 6th trumpet prior to the 6th seal. And if the 6th trumpet is prior to the 6th seal, then so must the 1st trumpet be prior to the 6th seal.

The 6th seal comes before the 1st Trumpet. The severing of the 7th seal signals the 7 angels to ready their trumpets.
The 6th seal will signal the Great Quake in December 2062 on the 777th day of the Antichrist's first term as the US president. The San Adreas fault will rupture followed be the unzipping of the Cascadia fault from California to southern British Columbia, Canada. The whole ring of fire will then become activated.
On July 7th, 2065 (777 holy months - 30 day months- after the beginning of the end-time on 9/11 2001), the 1st Trumpet will be blown and Yellowstone will erupt with a magnitude not duplicated for over 30 million years.

 

[Jamdoc]

The 6th seal comes before the 1st Trumpet. The severing of the 7th seal signals the 7 angels to ready their trumpets.
The 6th seal will signal the Great Quake in December 2062 on the 777th day of the Antichrist's first term as the US president. The San Adreas fault will rupture followed be the unzipping of the Cascadia fault from California to southern British Columbia, Canada. The whole ring of fire will then become activated.
On July 7th, 2065 (777 holy months - 30 day months- after the beginning of the end-time on 9/11 2001), the 1st Trumpet will be blown and Yellowstone will erupt with a magnitude not duplicated for over 30 million years.

Date setting is not allowed in this sub forum, and is generally a bad idea.

 

[Chris Thomas Shepherd]

Date setting is not allowed in this sub forum, and is generally a bad idea.

Hi Jamdoc,
I understand your suggestion. I do not believe there is a rule against date setting.
I have written a book, The Trumpets, much of which relates to the future portion of the end-times. I was blessed with the guidance of the Holy Spirit during the writing of the book.
I could explain some of the amazing ways and times that the Holy Spirit communicated with me, however, I have written portions of it on this forum already. So, I feel it is necessary to add the dates with my descriptions. You will find that all of the dates fit exactly to the day with the time frames laid out in the Bible. Much of the time frames come from the following reference points:
End-times begin on September 11th 2001
The Antichrist is elected 51st president of the United States in November 2060 and re-elected in November 2068.

 

[Jamdoc]

Hi Jamdoc,
I understand your suggestion. I do not believe there is a rule against date setting.
I have written a book, The Trumpets, much of which relates to the future portion of the end-times. I was blessed with the guidance of the Holy Spirit during the writing of the book.
I could explain some of the amazing ways and times that the Holy Spirit communicated with me, however, I have written portions of it on this forum already. So, I feel it is necessary to add the dates with my descriptions. You will find that all of the dates fit exactly to the day with the time frames laid out in the Bible. Much of the time frames come from the following reference points:
End-times begin on September 11th 2001
The Antichrist is elected 51st president of the United States in November 2060 and re-elected in November 2068.

It's in the statement pf purpose post, it doesn't allow date setting. Controversial Christian Theology does however allow date setting.
I'm just letting you know cause it can get people in trouble, you didn't actually give a date for Christ's return so like, you haven't crossed the line so to say but it becomes dangerous when you date set for future events.

 

[Chris Thomas Shepherd]

It's in the statement pf purpose post, it doesn't allow date setting. Controversial Christian Theology does however allow date setting.
I'm just letting you know cause it can get people in trouble, you didn't actually give a date for Christ's return so like, you haven't crossed the line so to say but it becomes dangerous when you date set for future events.

Thanks, I was unaware of the rule. Appreciate your feedback

 

[Timtofly]

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

If the first trumpet is after the 6th seal, and that the 6th seal records Christ's coming, thus the rapture, this obviously means so is the 2nd trumpet through the 7th trumpet after the 6th seal. Which then means anyone holding to a view like this, they are all Pretribbers regardless what they call their rapture position. Revelation 13 records the great tribulation, and that it has to fit either during the 2ws testimonies or after the 2ws are finished giving their testimonies. We know the time of the 2Ws involve the 6th trumpet. We know that the 6th trumpet is after the first trumpet, but not meaning right after, but after trumpets 2-5 are sounded first. So, meaning after the first trumpet like that.

This is what the timeline of events would like like if the first trumpet is after the 6th seal, and this is not even taking into account the vials of wrath.

The 6th seal events, which record Christ's coming, which means the rapture takes place during the 6th seal. Followed by the 7th seal and the silence for 1/2 hour. Followed by the 1st trumpet. Followed by the 2nd trumpet. Followed by the 3rd trumpet. Followed by the 4th trumpet. Followed by the 5th trumpet. Followed by the 6th trumpet. Followed by the 7th trumpet.

All 7 of these trumpet events would be meaning after the rapture if the 6th seal records Christ's coming. Which also means the rapture is before the great trib, thus making this position Pretrib. Some call their rapture view an Anytime Rapture, some call their rapture view a Midtrib rapture, and some call their rapture view Prewrath. It all means Pretrib though, assuming the 6th seal records the rapture and that the 7 trumpets are after the 6th seal, which means so is the great trib after the rapture since that is meaning after the 2ws finish their testimony recorded during the 6th trumpet.

Yet, the great trib precedes the rapture, making the rapture Post trib. Therefore, the first trumpet could not possibly be after the 6th seal events. Either that, or the 6th seal does not actually record the coming of Christ, thus the rapture. But if it does record the rapture, this means that the first trumpet can't be after the 6th seal since this would make the rapture Pretrib.

The way around this in order to avoid a Pretrib rapture, a rapture that is not Biblical, take the 42 month reign of the beast, for instance. Since that records the great trib and is at least connected with the 6th trumpet, that means that doesn't fit after the 6th seal, it fits prior to it, meaning during the little season recorded in the 5th seal, thus making the 6th trumpet prior to the 6th seal. And if the 6th trumpet is prior to the 6th seal, then so must the 1st trumpet be prior to the 6th seal.

How is a pre-trib rapture not Biblical?

Certainly not for all this chronological musical chairs with future events you have going on in this post.

Satan's 42 months is the Abomination of Desolation.

The Great Tribulation is the 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders.

Why would Jesus end Satan's Abomination of Desolation at Armageddon, and then start the Great Tribulation?

The point is the Second Coming is the 6th Seal. This brings Jesus and His angels to earth for the final harvest. The time of tribulation is the final harvest of Matthew 13.