Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[Brightfame52]

Yes, I am very familiar with Calvinism. Thanks for engaging !
Happy New Year!

Its not calvinism, Its Gods word.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes, but God speaks conviction directly into the heart of all men, leaving the response entirely down to them.

When God draws a man its a wrap, they are no longer a natural man, so they come, they seek.

 

[Brightfame52]

Oh. And yet God wants none to perish...

And He didn't want Adam to sin. And He wants His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. But...

So you sticking to your guns, man triumphs over God, mans will overcomes Gods will.

 

[Brightfame52]

eleos1954

we are all natural until we become spiritual

I know that.

 

[fhansen]

So you sticking to your guns, man triumphs over God, mans will overcomes Gods will.

Sounds like you're sticking to your guns-God, apparently, is unable to give man free will. Gee, wonder where all the sin came from?

 

[eleos1954]

Yes, I was born again before hearing the gospel.
My parents took me to an Anglican Church, but they never preached the gospel and what they did preach was complete nonsense which I recall completely rejecting.
I did not hear the message of the cross till my mid 20s.

Not true, I simply believed in God. But then Jesus is God!

Again, that's not true.
I know I was born again because God told me he lived in my heart, but I still hadn't a clue who Jesus was or what he did on the cross.

You don't get born again by studying!

The point I was making is that you HAD some knowledge ( ie you went to church) .... a partial "picture".

I am not saying you were not born again before learning more about Jesus .... I'm saying that you did have some knowledge about God.

and yes ... Jesus is God .... you believed in God so you did believe in Jesus (who is God) although did not have a through understanding or all of the information at the time.

You don't get born again by studying!

Some do ... some don't.

It's God working in the heart.

 

[Francis Drake]

The point I was making is that you HAD some knowledge ( ie you went to church) .... a partial "picture".

Except their teaching about Jesus was so erroneous that even as a child, it led me to reject the story of Jesus.

I am not saying you were not born again before learning more about Jesus .... I'm saying that you did have some knowledge about God.

Everybody in the whole world has knowledge of God, thus getting born again has absolutely nothing to do with learning, or understanding the cross, but how they respond to God himself..

and yes ... Jesus is God .... you believed in God so you did believe in Jesus (who is God) although did not have a through understanding or all of the information at the time.

You don't need a thorough understanding, or all the information, in order for new birth.

Some do ... some don't.

Absolutely wrong and unbiblical. You get born again by the Spirit not by the intellect.

It's God working in the heart.

Exactly, so why do you insist that it depends on knowledge?

 

[Brightfame52]

When I say men naturally i mean the unregenerate man, in the flesh, never born again ? Can this person seek after the True and Living God ? The answer is NO !

Scripture makes that clear, that man naturally doesnt seek after God Rom 3:9-12

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

The word seekth here is related to and joined with Faith here Heb 11:1,6

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Now the word seek here and the one in Rom 3:11 are the same greek word ekzeteo which means:

I seek out, seek out after, require.

to seek the favor of God, worship him

And believing Faith seeks after the True God. But because of our depravity by nature, we dont seek after God, nor have the ability to !

 

[Christian7777777]

Repentance is changing ones mind. One must first , from their own volition, repent from unbelief. This is why there are so few true Christians because they constantly doubt belief one way or the other. Doubt comes from the human heart as well as faith. If we come to true repentance then we are regenerated through His Holy Spirit and are in the Body of Christ.
Blessings

Changing ones mind is gaining the mind of Christ ( Spiritual mind)

If the human heart doubts, that is Gods new covenant of Him granting a new heart and taking the stony heart of unbelief out.

Regeneration is through the Holy Spirit ( His words are Spirit and life to be believed in...the Gospel for faith in Christ rising from the dead)..


Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[Francis Drake]

When I say men naturally i mean the unregenerate man, in the flesh, never born again ? Can this person seek after the True and Living God ? The answer is NO !

Scripture makes that clear, that man naturally doesnt seek after God Rom 3:9-12

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

The word seekth here is related to and joined with Faith here Heb 11:1,6

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Now the word seek here and the one in Rom 3:11 are the same greek word ekzeteo which means:

I seek out, seek out after, require.

to seek the favor of God, worship him

And believing Faith seeks after the True God. But because of our depravity by nature, we dont seek after God, nor have the ability to !

The point that they can't or don't to seek after God is completely irrelevant for the simple reason that every single man since Adam has the revelation of God already in their heart.

Thus God has made it possible for every man to make the right freewill decision.
Paul could not make these facts clearer than he does in Romans1, yet people still insist on the godless theology of Calvin.
Romans1v18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven upon all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, suppressing the truth by unrighteousness,
To suppress the truth, you must have first received it!

19because the known of God is manifest among them, for God has revealed it to them.
Absolute proof that God has directly revealed himself to every single man on the planet!

20a. For from the creation of the world His invisible qualities, both His eternal power and divinity, are clearly seen,
Again, yet more proof that since the beginning, all men have fully known the truth.

20b. being understood by the things made, for them to be without excuse.
Not just seen and known, but understood, giving God all legal justification to reject all excuses.

Atheists and agnostics do not miss Godliness by accident, they knowingly choose death.

And again here-
Rev3v20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone should hear My voice and open the door, then I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

The job of evangelism was never to get people born again, but to get those who are already born again into walking with the Lord.

 

[Christian7777777]

When I say men naturally i mean the unregenerate man, in the flesh, never born again ? Can this person seek after the True and Living God ? The answer is NO !

Scripture makes that clear, that man naturally doesnt seek after God Rom 3:9-12

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

The word seekth here is related to and joined with Faith here Heb 11:1,6

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Now the word seek here and the one in Rom 3:11 are the same greek word ekzeteo which means:

I seek out, seek out after, require.

to seek the favor of God, worship him

And believing Faith seeks after the True God. But because of our depravity by nature, we dont seek after God, nor have the ability to !

Godliness is a mystery.

None sought after God, but don't miss the reason for that.

Also don't miss the meaning to why man was only evil ( not seeking good, not seeking after God).

God could not be found, that was why the sheep went astray ( there has to be a reason for why the sheep went astray, as God stuck the Shepherd and the sheep were scattered)

Then when the time came that God could be found ( He came to seek His own sheep) the sheep can and do hear His voice and then God was among His sheep and delivered them ( they then prayed unto Him as He could be found then)..


Ezekiel 34:12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

Psalm 32:6 For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.

 

[Christian7777777]

The job of evangelism was never to get people born again, but to get those who are already born again into walking with the Lord.

Born again is when the flesh is not sufficient for a person. They seek God ( who is Spirit) and all the ways of flesh pass away, they also cannot know a person after the flesh any more, they know only Christ after the Spirit now...


2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[Christian7777777]

If the Spirit is not with them they are not with Jesus.
All Christians are saved through God's choosing them.

Chosen in the furnace of affliction, means we follow the afflictions of Christ for His body's sake..


Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

 

[Francis Drake]

God could not be found, that was why the sheep went astray ( there has to be a reason for why the sheep went astray, as God stuck the Shepherd and the sheep were scattered)

This contradicts scripture as God has always been accessible. If that were not true, then man would have an excuse at the judgement.

Romans1v18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven upon all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, suppressing the truth by unrighteousness, 19because the known of God is manifest among them, for God has revealed it to them. 20For from the creation of the world His invisible qualities, both His eternal power and divinity, are clearly seen, being understood by the things made, for them to be without excuse.

 

[Irkle Berserkle]

It scarcely makes sense that God would have made creation "proclaim His glory" and that all would be "without excuse" if sin had hardened us past the point of seeking Him. I believe all humans possess the sensus divinitatis (innate sense of the divine) and ability to seek God. I also believe that God calls and convicts individuals, perhaps numerous times in the course of a life. We are still responsible for how we exercise our free will in responding. I see no dichotomy in believing we all have the ability to seek God but God must call and convict.

 

[Francis Drake]

It scarcely makes sense that God would have made creation "proclaim His glory" and that all would be "without excuse" if sin had hardened us past the point of seeking Him. I believe all humans possess the sensus divinitatis (innate sense of the divine) and ability to seek God. I also believe that God calls and convicts individuals, perhaps numerous times in the course of a life. We are still responsible for how we exercise our free will in responding. I see no dichotomy in believing we all have the ability to seek God but God must call and convict.

That's what scripture says.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day,

There is nothing with in a man that could or would cause him to hate the sin he loves, and love the light he hates.... Unless God removes the heart of stone and give a heart of flesh.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Brightfame52]

francis drake

The point that they can't or don't to seek after God is completely irrelevant

No its not, Truth is never irrelevant friend.

 

[Brightfame52]

christian77777777

None sought after God, but don't miss the reason for that.

None seeks after God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[BBAS 64]

christian77777777


None seeks after God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Amen!

Jesus seeks......for the explicit purpose of saving that which was lost.