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Do you believe in Creationism or Evolutionism?

Are you a Creationist as per the OP definition.. a literal 7 day week of creation. Gen 1?

  • yes

    Votes: 22 33.3%
  • yes but I think that the entire galaxy as well as Earth, Sun and moon were created in those 7 days

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Yes but I think the entire universe was created in in those 7 literal days

    Votes: 11 16.7%
  • yes - but the Bible is wrong

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • yes - but I mix evolution with it in some way

    Votes: 2 3.0%
  • No - but since I believe the Bible I think of this as a kind of creationism

    Votes: 7 10.6%
  • No - creationism is wrong, the Bible is wrong, I believe evolution is the real truth

    Votes: 3 4.5%
  • other

    Votes: 20 30.3%

  • Total voters
    66

BobRyan

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The Bible doesn't say that there was no suffering before the fall.
Gen 1:31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good

Rom 8:
. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Corruption: Strong's G5356 - phthora
  1. corruption, destruction, perishing
    1. that which is subject to corruption, what is perishable
    2. in the Christian sense, eternal misery in hell
  2. in the NT, in an ethical sense, corruption i.e. moral decay
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Gen 2:
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.


4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were create
Simple statements without any solid Biblical or scientific support are nothing but empty words.
 
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David Lamb

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Simple statements without any solid Biblical or scientific support are nothing but empty words.
But you were replying to a post which consisted only of verses from the bible!
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Those that want to mock the Bible will sometimes try to get it to say the world is flat, as part of their pro-evolutionism POV that discredits the accuracy of the Bible and lowers trust in the apparent reading of it.

Josh 6:5 has an unambiguous statement about something explicitly being "flat"
5 It shall be that when they make a long blast with the ram’s horn, and when you hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city will fall down flat, and the people will go up every man straight ahead.”​

Sadly for such a POV , no such case is found in the Bible where that word is used to describe Earth's shape.

wh;ich means it is not accurate to try and discredit the Bible's description of the seven day creation week, as if the Bible "account" of something is not accurate

Gen 2:4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created




The Bible says the 7 days at Sinai are the same as the 7 days in Gen 1-.

But belief in evolutionism says "those are days that did not happen, what actually happened is whatever belief in evolutionism would teach"
There is a very big difference between what the Bible actually says and the many different ways that it has been interpreted by the readers of it—and Genesis 1-11 is not an exception to this basic fact. Indeed, we read in the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: Old Testament, Volume I, Genesis 1-11 edited by Andrew Louth and published in 2001 by InterVarsity Press very numerous interpretations of Genesis 1-11 by the early Fathers of the Church. They did not mock the Bible—they loved it and invested their lives in the study and teaching of it! As for the Bible’s teaching on the shape of the earth, both the Old and New Testament writers expressly taught that the earth is flat. The Old Testament writers described the earth as being flat and covered with a strong, solid dome.

The Hebrew Masoretic text of Genesis 1:6-8 expressly describes the creation of a flat earth covered with a dome that “separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome.”

1:6 ויאמר אלהים יהי רקיע בתוך המים ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים׃

1:7 ויעשׂ אלהים את־הרקיע ויבדל בין המים אשׁר מתחת לרקיע ובין המים אשׁר מעל לרקיע ויהי־כן׃

1:8 ויקרא אלהים לרקיע שׁמים ויהי־ערב ויהי־בקר יום שׁני׃

The Septuagint also expressly describes the creation of a flat earth covered with a dome that “separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome.”

Gen 1:6 Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεός Γενηθήτω στερέωμα ἐν μέσῳ τοῦ ὕδατος καὶ ἔστω διαχωρίζον ἀνὰ μέσον ὕδατος καὶ ὕδατος. καὶ ἐγένετο οὕτως.
Gen 1:7 καὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸ στερέωμα, καὶ διεχώρισεν ὁ θεὸς ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ ὕδατος, ὃ ἦν ὑποκάτω τοῦ στερεώματος, καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ ὕδατος τοῦ ἐπάνω τοῦ στερεώματος.
Gen 1:8 καὶ ἐκάλεσεν ὁ θεὸς τὸ στερέωμα οὐρανόν. καὶ εἶδεν ὁ θεὸς ὅτι καλόν. καὶ ἐγένετο ἑσπέρα καὶ ἐγένετο πρωί, ἡμέρα δευτέρα.

Genesis 1:6. And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
8. God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day. (NRSV)

Genesis 1:6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. (KJV)

The KJV correctly translates the Hebrew word רָקִיעַ (râqı̂ya‛) as “firmament”, but most modern readers of the KJV are unaware of the meaning of the word “firmament,” and do not realize that it came down to us from the Latin present active infinitive (firmāre) of the Latin verb firmō, meaning “I make firm, strengthen, harden, or fortify” and that it expresses the concept of the strong, solid dome that supported the water above the dome.

Matt. 4:8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor;
9. and he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.”
10. Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! for it is written,
‘Worship the Lord your God,
and serve only him.' "

This could be true ONLY if the earth is flat! Matthew, being a Jew, believed as did the Jewish Rabbis at the time (and for the next seven centuries). Luke, however, was a Gentile and had a very good Greek education (he was a physician). Therefore he gently corrected Matthew’s obvious error and wrote instead,

Luke 4:5. Then the devil led him up and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world.
6. And the devil said to him, “To you I will give their glory and all this authority; for it has been given over to me, and I give it to anyone I please.
7. If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.”
8. Jesus answered him, It is written,
‘Worship the Lord your God,
and serve only him.' "


The theory of evolution does not say that the Bible is wrong because the theory of evolution is a matter of science and the Bible is a matter religion.
 
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Job 33:6

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Gen 1:31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good

Rom 8:
. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Corruption: Strong's G5356 - phthora
  1. corruption, destruction, perishing
    1. that which is subject to corruption, what is perishable
    2. in the Christian sense, eternal misery in hell
  2. in the NT, in an ethical sense, corruption i.e. moral decay
"Very good" doesn't mean "perfect". And Genesis isn't Romans. Just because we await the return of Jesus, this doesn't mean that there was no death or suffering before the fall. Creation was subjected to futility, sure, still doesn't mean that there was no death or suffering before the fall. Creation will be set free, sure, but that's not about things of the past, that's about the future. "Will be" set free, in the future.

The fact of the matter is that Genesis never actually states that there was no death or suffering before the fall. As much as fundamentalists wish it were there.

Psalm 104:
Day 1:
Praise the Lord, my soul.
1Lord my God, you are very great;
you are clothed with splendor and majesty.
2a The Lord wraps himself in light as with a garment;

Day 2:
2b he stretches out the heavens like a tent.

Day 3:
He set the earth on its foundations;
it can never be moved.

Day 4:
He made the moon to mark the seasons,
and the sun knows when to go down.

And so the creation Psalm follows:

21The lions roar for their prey
and seek their food from God.

24 How many are your works, Lord!
In wisdom you made them all;
the earth is full of your creatures.

25 There is the sea, vast and spacious,
teeming with creatures beyond number—
living things both large and small.

27 All creatures look to you
to give them their food at the proper time.

28 When you give it to them,
they gather it up;
when you open your hand,
they are satisfied with good things.

29 When you hide your face,
they are terrified;
when you take away their breath,
they die and return to the dust.

31 May the glory of the Lord endure forever;
may the Lord rejoice in his works—

These are "very good", may the Lord rejoice in his works. And yet, as we can see, there is death and suffering. And that's in the Old Testament. And no, it is not a post-fall psalm.
 
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