Do you believe God can use satan as a tool to test our faith?

[bling]

I don't see God "using" Satan in Job but allowing Satan to do something.

God's objective is always to help and satan can help Job learn something, I do not see any other way for Job to learn and thus grow.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Interesting perspective...so your take on it is that it was Job's lack of faith that made his already bad situation worse?

Thanks..
If asked if God pushed the hedge down or Job pushed it down, and knowing the goodness of God, and knowing the failure of men... I would have to say Job.
Not really a lack of faith. It was a lack of understanding and knowledge about God. Job fell into the trap many modern believers fall into. They fail to believe that God is good and that His plans for us are good and not evil. They have the idea that God wants to hurt them, make them sick, kill their children, burn down their homes, and basically destroy them. His people perish for a lack of knowledge. If a person believes that God will do all these things, he will not struggle against them. He will assume he deserves to suffer. He will no believe or even pray against the attacks of Satan. When Satan takes away, he will assume it was God, blame God, and it will be unto him according to his faith. It is not a lack of general faith... it is wrong knowledge. One of the greatest lessons in Job is that God did not do it. It is kind of a Rorschach test that reveals what a person thinks about God. If a person thinks God is the cause of their problems and brings that idea into their reading of the book, they will see God giving Satan immediate and specific permission. They will see God directly behind Jobs suffering. When the read the phrase "Behold all he has is in your hands" they will understand it to mean "I give you permission to afflict Job." If you come to the book understanding that God does not do these things to His children, the you will read it exactly as it is written. Satan asserted there was a hedge, but there was no hedge, and God simply pointed out that fact when he said "Behold (look!). everything is in your hands" because there is no hedge. Satan does not need specific immediate permission. He already has standing permission to get whoever he wants to get (who do not have a hedge). Job had a hedge until he feared and as a result his hedge fell and those things he greatly feared came upon him.
Thanks
D

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Robert Young who produced the YLT was self-taught in Greek and Hebrew. The YLT does not represent credible scholarship but Young's assumptions/presuppositions.

Thanks.
Consider also the Literal Standard Version
Job 1:8
8. And YHWH says to Satan, “Have you set your heart against My servant Job because there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?”

And Smith's Literal Translation:
And Jehovah will say to the adversary, Didst thou set thy heart to my servant Job? for none like him in the earth; a man blameless and upright, fearing God and departing from evil.


The Arabic Bible in Plain English is similar:
And LORD JEHOVAH said to Satan: “Behold, you have set your heart on my Servant Job, for there is none like him in the earth, a man perfect and upright, and he worships God and departs from evil.”


Gill has a good take on the verse which supports Young's translation.

Gill
"And the Lord said unto Satan, hast thou considered my servant Job,.... Or, "hast thou put thine heart on my servant" (p); not in a way of love and affection to him, to do him any good or service, there being an original and implacable enmity in this old serpent to the seed of the woman; but rather his heart was set upon him in a way of desire to have him in his hands, to do him all the mischief he could, as the desire of his heart was toward Peter, Luk_22:31 but the sense of the question is, since thou sayest thou hast been walking up and down in the earth, hast thou not taken notice of Job, and cast an eye upon him, and wished in thine heart to have him in thine hands to do him hurt? I know that thou hast; hast thou not contrived in thine heart how to attack him, tempt him, and draw him from my service, and into sins and snares, in order to reproach and accuse him? ..."

 

[YahuahSaves]

Thanks..
If asked if God pushed the hedge down or Job pushed it down, and knowing the goodness of God, and knowing the failure of men... I would have to say Job.
Not really a lack of faith. It was a lack of understanding and knowledge about God. Job fell into the trap many modern believers fall into. They fail to believe that God is good and that His plans for us are good and not evil. They have the idea that God wants to hurt them, make them sick, kill their children, burn down their homes, and basically destroy them. His people perish for a lack of knowledge. If a person believes that God will do all these things, he will not struggle against them. He will assume he deserves to suffer. He will no believe or even pray against the attacks of Satan. When Satan takes away, he will assume it was God, blame God, and it will be unto him according to his faith. It is not a lack of general faith... it is wrong knowledge. One of the greatest lessons in Job is that God did not do it. It is kind of a Rorschach test that reveals what a person thinks about God. If a person thinks God is the cause of their problems and brings that idea into their reading of the book, they will see God giving Satan immediate and specific permission. They will see God directly behind Jobs suffering. When the read the phrase "Behold all he has is in your hands" they will understand it to mean "I give you permission to afflict Job." If you come to the book understanding that God does not do these things to His children, the you will read it exactly as it is written. Satan asserted there was a hedge, but there was no hedge, and God simply pointed out that fact when he said "Behold (look!). everything is in your hands" because there is no hedge. Satan does not need specific immediate permission. He already has standing permission to get whoever he wants to get (who do not have a hedge). Job had a hedge until he feared and as a result his hedge fell and those things he greatly feared came upon him.
Thanks
D

I'm guessing you didn't watch the video I posted in the OP then?

Please direct me to the scripture you quoted when you said this:

“Hedge? What hedge? There is no hedge! That disappeared since you last attacked him. Your accusation is therefore false. There is no hedge now and Job worships me anyway! Look (Behold) for yourself. Can't you see that the hedge is down and all he has is in your hands! You can get to him now as is your way of doing things, but in this instance I am going to limit you (totally opposite of giving permission) from what you normally could do (devour him). I remove from you your standing permission to kill him. You cannot kill him! Other than that, everything else is in your hands as usual.“

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I'm guessing you didn't watch the video I posted in the OP then?

Please direct me to the scripture you quoted when you said this:

Thanks P, your points are well taken, and I appreciate the discussion!
Blessings In Him!

 

[YahuahSaves]

Thanks P, your points are well taken, and I appreciate the discussion!
Blessings In Him!

?
OK... so you're going to avoid the questions then? Right-O.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

?
OK... so you're going to avoid the questions then? Right-O.

Not really avoid. Just offer what I have offered for anyone to consider.
Peace in Him!

 

[YahuahSaves]

Not really avoid. Just offer what I have offered for anyone to consider.
Peace in Him!

If you're not avoiding, then why didn't you answer the questions I asked in post #24 ?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Thanks for the discussion. Peace in Jesus.