Do you believe God can use satan as a tool to test our faith?

[YahuahSaves]

I do.

 

[Der Alte]

I did not take the quiz. God can use Satan for any purpose He chooses but I don't think He has or will.

 

[Blade]

Well since no scripture is given just some video... pass.

 

[bling]

God does use satan, but no "testing" is needed for God's sake. Humans are the ones who sometimes need to know where we are at, since we often think better of ourselves than we really are, this seems to be Job's condition.

 

[YahuahSaves]

God does use satan, but no "testing" is needed for God's sake. Humans are the ones who sometimes need to know where we are at, since we often think better of ourselves than we really are, this seems to be Job's condition.

I totally agree. Right before I got saved, God used satan as a tool to show me my false beliefs and the spirit I was actually following (I always believed in God and never thought I would follow satan) it just showed me how easy it is to be tricked.

My faith has been tested also through temptation, God put me in a situation where I've had to learn a lot about forgiveness. Satan has done his best to get me to backslide in this area, but he has not won.

God can do anything to get the results from us he wants...those who think otherwise forget who he is - the alpha and omega - the almighty living God.

 

[Der Alte]

God does use satan, but no "testing" is needed for God's sake. Humans are the ones who sometimes need to know where we are at, since we often think better of ourselves than we really are, this seems to be Job's condition.

I don't see God "using" Satan in Job but allowing Satan to do something.

 

[Lost Witness]

 

[Der Alte]

Es tut mir leid. Typo! I have nothing against Carl.

 

[YahuahSaves]

I don't see God "using" Satan in Job but allowing Satan to do something.

Yes and what was the result God wanted to see produced in Job after all his affliction? If you have watched the sermon or read the scriptures? God didn't just "let" satan have his way without a reason, the testing was a means to an end.

 

[Lost Witness]

Yea i feel as though GOD allowed him to do it as he already knew what satan sought to do and what the outcome was going to be.
In the end it served a purpose.
GOD often takes calamity and turns it into blessings,
Just my take

 

[Der Alte]

Yes and what was the result God wanted to see produced in Job after all his affliction? If you have watched the sermon or read the scriptures? God didn't just "let" satan have his way without a reason, the testing was a means to an end.

God did not initiate the "test" and He limited what Satan could do. Job lived up to God's expectations.

 

[YahuahSaves]

God did not initiate the "test" and He limited what Satan could do. Job lived up to God's expectations.

He did initiate it actually. God knew satan was looking for someone to tempt, and God pointed out Job as a faithful servant. Do you think God didn't know the desire satan had to turn Job against God? Do you think God didn't already know the responses Job would have and the outcome? You didn't answer the question on whether you read the scriptures or watched the video to determine what result God was seeking to get from Job in the end?

Job 1:6-8
Job’s First Test

6 One day the members of the heavenly court[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them. 7 “Where have you come from?” the Lord asked Satan.

Satan answered the Lord, “I have been patrolling the earth, watching everything that’s going on.”

8 Then the Lord asked Satan, “Have you noticed my servant Job? He is the finest man in all the earth. He is blameless—a man of complete integrity. He fears God and stays away from evil.”

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I suppose in the same way a thorn bush or a burning desert is used. If you stray off the path you may run into these harmful conditions. I suppose indirectly God is behind it, but I do not think He orchestrates or authenticates the events. He created thorns and deserts. He did not intend for us to wander into these dangerous places. He warns us. He is not happy that we tread down the thorny path. But was Ecclesiastes says, time and circumstance happen to us all. We will reap what we sow. We live in a world that is fallen and is falling. He will shield us. He has provided armor to protect us. Satan is the god of this world. In a sense a roaring lion does not need permission to attack its prey. We are told to be sober and vigilant. There is a reason for that. It is not to protect us from God.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Job 1:6-8
Job’s First Test


8 Then the Lord asked Satan, “Have you noticed my servant Job? He is the finest man in all the earth. He is blameless—a man of complete integrity. He fears God and stays away from evil.”

Some deeper study indicates a better rendering of these words, according to a literal translation.

Young's' literal translation of Job 1:8

Job 1:8
And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, `Hast thou set thy heart against My servant Job because there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?'

IOWs God is asking Satan why he is against Job. "Are you against my servant Job BECAUSE there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?'
Of course the answer is yes.

This implies that Satan had already attacked Job without direct permission from God. I have held that Satan is not here to ask God for permission and in fact does not ask for said permission. He was there to try and get God to afflict Job. Satan did not need permission to attack Job. Satan, like a roaring lion, has standing permission to attack whoever is not being sober and vigilant. What Satan is doing is accusing God and temping God to afflict Job. God never afflicted Job. It was always Satan. Even Jobs wife, servants, and friends had the wrong idea that God did these things. They too were wrong. Even Job was wrong when he said "God has given and God has taken away." It was never God. In part this is why Job suffered. Just like people today, they have the ingrained belief that God is behind their suffering. He is not. If we correct our thinking to match Heb 11 we will defeat Satan:
"Without faith it is impossible to please Him. For those who come to God must believe that He is, and must believe that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

James 1:
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

 

[YahuahSaves]

I suppose in the same way a thorn bush or a burning desert is used. If you stray off the path you may run into these harmful conditions. I suppose indirectly God is behind it, but I do not think He orchestrates or authenticates the events. He created thorns and deserts. He did not intend for us to wander into these dangerous places. He warns us. He is not happy that we tread down the thorny path. But was Ecclesiastes says, time and circumstance happen to us all. We will reap what we sow. We live in a world that is fallen and is falling. He will shield us. He has provided armor to protect us. Satan is the god of this world. In a sense a roaring lion does not need permission to attack its prey. We are told to be sober and vigilant. There is a reason for that. It is not to protect us from God.

Yes, we can make our own mistakes if we follow our own path in life, and it may not be what God intended for us, but once we come to Christ, he "works everything together" for the good of those that love him. Once we come to Christ, he uses trials and afflictions to shape and refine us. He doesn't always use satan as a tool, he most definitely test us without satan, but the book of Job is an example of a faithful servant of God, through the testing of his faith, he was still able to pray for those who persecuted him. This is the theme throughout scripture. "Love God, and love others as yourself". No matter what we're going through in this life, God wants us to set ourselves aside and put others first.

1 Peter 1:6-9, Psalm 66:10-12, Isaiah 48:10, 1 Peter 4:12-16, James 1:12

 

[YahuahSaves]

Some deeper study indicates a better rendering of these words, according to a literal translation.

Young's' literal translation of Job 1:8

Job 1:8
And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, `Hast thou set thy heart against My servant Job because there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?'

IOWs God is asking Satan why he is against Job. "Are you against my servant Job BECAUSE there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?'
Of course the answer is yes.

This implies that Satan had already attacked Job without direct permission from God. I have held that Satan is not here to ask God for permission and in fact does not ask for said permission. He was there to try and get God to afflict Job. Satan did not need permission to attack Job. Satan, like a roaring lion, has standing permission to attack whoever is not being sober and vigilant. What Satan is doing is accusing God and temping God to afflict Job. God never afflicted Job. It was always Satan. Even Jobs wife, servants, and friends had the wrong idea that God did these things. They too were wrong. Even Job was wrong when he said "God has given and God has taken away." It was never God. In part this is why Job suffered. Just like people today, they have the ingrained belief that God is behind their suffering. He is not. If we correct our thinking to match Heb 11 we will defeat Satan:
"Without faith it is impossible to please Him. For those who come to God must believe that He is, and must believe that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

James 1:
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

I don’t know what that "literal" translation is about, but I often prefer to go by what the scripture says directly.

This implies that Satan had already attacked Job without direct permission from God.

No it implies he "tried" to attack Job, for he found there was a "hedge of protection" about him. God took that protection away and allowed satan to do his worst (short of killing him), because God wanted to prove to satan what a faithful servant of God actually behaved like. It was a test for Job as much as Job was an example to satan.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I don’t know what that "literal" translation is about, but I often prefer to go by what the scripture says directly.


No it implies he "tried" to attack Job, for he found there was a "hedge of protection" about him. God took that protection away and allowed satan to do his worst (short of killing him), because God wanted to prove to satan what a faithful servant of God actually behaved like. It was a test for Job as much as Job was an example to satan.

You are correct that there was a hedge of protection. We will have to disagree regarding who took it away, or rather pushed it down. I see Job and his incorrect ideas about God as the cause. Job thought God would abuse him and even blamed God for what was happening to Him. Hence he pushed down his own hedge. When God responded to satans allegation against Him, He spelled out the situation exactly:

“Hedge? What hedge? There is no hedge! That disappeared since you last attacked him. Your accusation is therefore false. There is no hedge now and Job worships me anyway! Look (Behold) for yourself. Can't you see that the hedge is down and all he has is in your hands! You can get to him now as is your way of doing things, but in this instance I am going to limit you (totally opposite of giving permission) from what you normally could do (devour him). I remove from you your standing permission to kill him. You cannot kill him! Other than that, everything else is in your hands as usual.“

Job pushed down the hedge because his incorrect attitude led to his fear that bad things would happen. Like Peter sinking into the waters, his fear led to doubt, and his doubt pushed down the hedge.

Job 3:
25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

 

[YahuahSaves]

You are correct that there was a hedge of protection. We will have to disagree regarding who took it away, or rather pushed it down. I see Job and his incorrect ideas about God as the cause. Job thought God would abuse him and even blamed God for what was happening to Him. Hence he pushed down his own hedge. When God responded to satans allegation against Him, He spelled out the situation exactly:

“Hedge? What hedge? There is no hedge! That disappeared since you last attacked him. Your accusation is therefore false. There is no hedge now and Job worships me anyway! Look (Behold) for yourself. Can't you see that the hedge is down and all he has is in your hands! You can get to him now as is your way of doing things, but in this instance I am going to limit you (totally opposite of giving permission) from what you normally could do (devour him). I remove from you your standing permission to kill him. You cannot kill him! Other than that, everything else is in your hands as usual.“

Job pushed down the hedge because his incorrect attitude led to his fear that bad things would happen. Like Peter sinking into the waters, his fear led to doubt, and his doubt pushed down the hedge.

Job 3:
25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

Interesting perspective...so your take on it is that it was Job's lack of faith that made his already bad situation worse?

 

[Der Alte]

Some deeper study indicates a better rendering of these words, according to a literal translation.
Young's' literal translation of Job 1:8
Job 1:8
And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, `Hast thou set thy heart against My servant Job because there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?'
IOWs God is asking Satan why he is against Job. "Are you against my servant Job BECAUSE there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?'
Of course the answer is yes.
This implies that Satan had already attacked Job without direct permission from God. I have held that Satan is not here to ask God for permission and in fact does not ask for said permission. He was there to try and get God to afflict Job. Satan did not need permission to attack Job. Satan, like a roaring lion, has standing permission to attack whoever is not being sober and vigilant. What Satan is doing is accusing God and temping God to afflict Job. God never afflicted Job. It was always Satan. Even Jobs wife, servants, and friends had the wrong idea that God did these things. They too were wrong. Even Job was wrong when he said "God has given and God has taken away." It was never God. In part this is why Job suffered. Just like people today, they have the ingrained belief that God is behind their suffering. He is not. If we correct our thinking to match Heb 11 we will defeat Satan:
"Without faith it is impossible to please Him. For those who come to God must believe that He is, and must believe that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."
James 1:
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Robert Young who produced the YLT was self-taught in Greek and Hebrew. The YLT does not represent credible scholarship but Young's assumptions/presuppositions.

 

[Jipsah]

To any question that begins with "Can God..." the answer is yes.