Do We Sleeping Until Judgement

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But what, or where, is "the Grave"? (sheol)

Commonly called just what it is, a grave, buried, remember dust to dust....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Which is from the key chapter used to claim the doctrine of "soul sleep".

Forget "doctrines" and teachings associated with this, as also other "doctrines" of men, added to Scripture.
Yahweh made everything simple; man came up with many devices. (not good )

 

[Saint Steven]

I notice that someone is using the OPTISISTIC vote as a belittling insult.

 

[Saint Steven]

Forget "doctrines" and teachings associated with this, as also other "doctrines" of men, added to Scripture.
Yahweh made everything simple; man came up with many devices. (not good )

Do you mean like this?

Luke 20:38
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

 

[Saint Steven]

Commonly called just what it is, a grave, buried, remember dust to dust....

The realm of the dead is described as a place we are going. A realm.

Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I notice that someone is using the OPTISISTIC vote as a belittling insult.

Someone asked what "OPTIMISTIC" meant in the past.
Here is a few answers at the time:
QUOTE="yeshuaslavejeff, post: 73554323, member: 96665"]the "optimistic" rating might be - 'hopeful for the best for the poster'

OR 'looks like the poster is optimistic'

OR 'hopeful / optimistic the poster will repent'

OR ' 'optimistic' that the poster is moving the right direction trusting God'

OR 'optimistic I do not see things right because the content is so wrong'

OR 'optimistic the content is right because I can't see if it is or not'

OR 'acknowledging the positive content or goal or direction of the poster or the readers'

OR ' "optimistic" because it seems like the best 'fit' of the labels available'

OR 'without knowing anything, just optimistic click to let the poster know the post is welcome and/or appreciated'

OR ? [/QUOTE

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The realm of the dead is described as a place we are going. A realm.

Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

Yes, well, for a full true explanation from Scripture only (not tradition), see (E.W.)Bullinger.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes, well, for a full true explanation from Scripture only (not tradition), see (E.W.)Bullinger.

True?
I quoted the Bible and you bring (E.W.)Bullinger. And call it "true"?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The realm of the dead is described as a place we are going. A realm.

Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

OK, give me an example of how He reveals it "simply".

Somewhere in the GOSPELS, Jesus Praises the Father in heaven for REVEALING SALVATION to "little children", and everything about Salvation.

This is a most important Scripture often ignored.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

True?
I quoted the Bible and you bring (E.W.)Bullinger. And call it "true"?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The realm of the dead is described as a place we are going. A realm.

Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

There is a simpler way.
As just posted/replied to concerning the Father's revealing Salvation.

This is true about all things in Scripture, when the Father reveals what is true, it is simple, always in perfect Harmony with ALL SCRIPTURE.

For those who don't receive revelation from the Father yet, there is E.W.Bullinger's study, which is in line with the Father's revelation, and in line with all Scripture, instead of man's traditions that err.

 

[greenguzzi]

Somewhere in the GOSPELS, Jesus Praises the Father in heaven for REVEALING SALVATION to "little children", and everything about Salvation.

This is a most important Scripture often ignored.

True.
But the statement I disagreed with wasn't that salvation is simple enough to be revealed to children.
The statement I disagreed with was that creation is simple.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

True.
But the statement I disagreed with wasn't that salvation is simple enough to be revealed to children.
The statement I disagreed with was that creation is simple.

Part (1) of answer: Do you think anything is complicated to Yahweh ? Since YAHWEH SAYS(in His Word and in Spirit) YAHWEH created all things simple.

 

[ml5363]

Our soul goes immediately to heaven or hell..our bodies are in the grave until Jesus returns to gather us. Then our body will be one with our soul and we shall receive our glorified body

 

[Saint Steven]

Part (1) of answer: Do you think anything is complicated to Yahweh ? Since YAHWEH SAYS(in His Word and in Spirit) YAHWEH created all things simple.

Really irritating when someone plays the "God" card to support their own personal opinion.
Where does God say that he "created all things simple"?

 

[Saint Steven]

Our soul goes immediately to heaven or hell..our bodies are in the grave until Jesus returns to gather us. Then our body will be one with our soul and we shall receive our glorified body

I think you are missing a step. But I liked your post all the same.
If you mean Hades when you write "Hell", then we agree.
There will be a final judgement where the lost are thrown into Hell. (the Lake of Fire)
And hopefully by "the grave" you mean Sheol. (the realm of the dead)

 

[greenguzzi]

Part (1) of answer: Do you think anything is complicated to Yahweh ?

No, of course not. But I don't see how this is relevant to what you wrote earlier.

YAHWEH SAYS(in His Word and in Spirit) YAHWEH created all things simple.

Where does YAHWEH say that YAHWEH created all things simple?

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<JS>There is a simpler way.
As just posted/replied to concerning the Father's revealing Salvation.
This is true about all things in Scripture, when the Father reveals what is true, it is simple, always in perfect Harmony with ALL SCRIPTURE.
For those who don't receive revelation from the Father yet, there is E.W.Bullinger's study, which is in line with the Father's revelation, and in line with all Scripture, instead of man's traditions that err.<JS>

end

How do you know Bullinger's study is in line with the Father's revelation? Where exactly in Bullinger's writings do we find what you are referring to?

 

[greenguzzi]

...there is E.W.Bullinger's study

Where exactly in Bullinger's writings do we find what you are referring to?

I believe @yeshuaslavejeff is referring to this...
https://levendwater.org/books/the_rich_man_and_lazarus.pdf

@yeshuaslavejeff: Please let me know if I'm right or not.

Bullinger seems to have some pretty strange and arbitrary ideas. Some (like Christ died on a Wednesday) also seem to be kinda pointless. But this particular writing of his looks quite interesting. I'm not saying I agree with it (I haven't decided). But it's worth a read.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I heard something the other day I'd never even thought of and that is when we die, what happens?
i.e. Are we judged immediately and go to heaven/hell
Or do we sleep until judgement day when we are raised a judged.

In Acts chapter 7 when Stephen was stoned to death he "fell asleep".
When Lazarus was raised from the dead after 3 days, nothing is recorded as to what he said.
Did he sleep or did he experience heaven?

The story of Lazarus and the rich man implies when we die we go to heaven or hell. However is this just a parable to explain that even when someone is raised from the dead some still won't believe.

I'm sure there are many passages in the bible that would make an argument for both cases but I wondered what others thoughts on this were.

Sleep is a polite euphemism for death. The body is "asleep" until the resurrection, when it is raised up and glorified.

Soul sleep has no basis in Scripture. Just like in Judaism, Christianity teaches that between death and resurrection there is something like a foretaste of what is to come, an existence apart from the body either among the wicked or among the righteous. What is often popularly referred to as hell and heaven respectively. In Christianity we further state, emphatically, that those who belong to the Lord will be present with Him in this interim, as the Apostle speaks of being away from the body and present with the Lord (the actual words Paul uses here can carry the sense "emigrate" and "immigrate" to emigrate from the body and immigrate to the Lord).

There are some groups who maintain a belief in soul sleep, but this position is at odds with millennia of apostolic, biblical, Christian teaching.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<GG>I believe @yeshuaslavejeff is referring to this...
https://levendwater.org/books/the_rich_man_and_lazarus.pdf
@yeshuaslavejeff: Please let me know if I'm right or not.
Bullinger seems to have some pretty strange and arbitrary ideas. Some (like Christ died on a Wednesday) also seem to be kinda pointless. But this particular writing of his looks quite interesting. I'm not saying I agree with it (I haven't decided). But it's worth a read. I think yeshuaslavejeff is referring to this...
https://levendwater.org/books/the_rich_man_and_lazarus.pdf
@yeshuaslavejeff: Please let me know if I'm right or not.
Bullinger seems to have some pretty strange and arbitrary ideas. Some (like Christ died on a Wednesday) also seem to be kinda pointless. But this particular writing of his looks quite interesting. I'm not saying I agree with it (I haven't decided). But it's worth a read.<GG>

end

Have you read Bullinger's book on numerology in the Bible?
Number in Scripture by E.W. Bullinger
That link is a long read so I only skimmed it. The first thing I noticed was Bullinger considered the story of the rich man and Lazarus to be a parable because Beza's 1598 translation of the NT has "Jesus spoke this parable" although no existing manuscript has the word "parable."
.....As I have pointed out in this thread the rich man and Lazarus narrative is not introduced as a parable and Jesus did not explain it later to His disciples. Also it does not adhere to the form of the unquestioned parables which all refer to anonymous people "a certain man", "a certain widow," etc. In the rich man and Lazarus narrative two people are specifically named "Lazarus" and "Abraham" who was a actual historical person. If Abraham was not in the place Jesus said and did not say the words that Jesus quoted then Jesus was lying.
.....My final point is all the ECF who quote or refer to the story considered it to be factual.