Being born again is a reference to repentance and becoming a new creation. It’s when we begin to hate the sinful things we used to do and begin loving the things that please God. This often takes place before water baptism and has been know to not happen after water baptism. So water baptism isn’t the catalyst, it’s the baptism of the Spirit that causes it.
Did they offer burnt sin offerings while they were being crucified?
That is a novel idea that gained a little acceptance in the past 100 years. But your explanation doesn't represent Scripture or how the Early Church interpreted Christ's words and carried out the Great Commission
there is nothing in Scripture that said he (not they) did from the cross. How that changes things, I don't know.
Really? When did Cornelius and his household receive the Holy Spirit, was it before they were baptized or after? What about the Samaritans Phillip baptized in acts 8? They didn’t receive the Holy Spirit until after Peter & John heard about what happened and traveled to Samaria and laid hands on them. It’s 35 miles from Samaria to Jerusalem so we’re probably looking at, at least a day or two before they arrived since someone would’ve had to travel from Samaria to Jerusalem to tell them what happened before they began traveling to Samaria. So my explanation is represented by scripture.
Yeah I realized that after I posted. There was only one thief on the cross that was saved, the other two were not. I noticed you didn’t catch it either the first time since you also said they and not he. But you said he was saved according to the old Covenant which means he would’ve had to offer a sin offering for his sins in order to be saved.
One also receives the Holy Spirit during the Sacrament of Confirmation (one of the scriptures you quoted attest to that). Plus, one can receive His gift at other times too. Your arguments aren't that convincing up against close to 2,000 year of Church teaching.
| John 14:13 ► |
| Verse (Click for Chapter) King James Bible And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. |
Some argue this means we do not—by our own mind, will and heart—self-determine to believe in Christ, but rather that God causes it. However, this passage does not indicate that God only plans that particular individuals believe. Rather this plan for being born-again is God's, not man's plan.
In context, John 15:16 is speaking of Jesus choosing the twelve disciples (Luke 6:12-13), not a proof-text for comprehensive soteriology. Jesus’ emphasis to His disciples that He is the caller was not meant to demean them but to emphasize His own purposes, which He had to do since their messianic expectations were not in line with what God had in store.
Who does God cause to be born-again? According to 1 Peter 1:23, we are “born again…through the living and enduring word of God.” So, as Ephesians 1:13 also emphasizes, when we hear and believe the Word of God (which includes the Gospel message), God seals us in Christ with the Holy Spirit and makes us born again.
John 6:45 identifies who in John 6:44 will be drawn to Jesus - it is those who learned from the Father. After Calvary a shift occurs as we enter the New Covenant and all people are drawn to Jesus (John 12:32).
Peter in Acts 2:38-39 promises forgiveness of sins and receipt of the Holy Spirit (i.e. salvation and the born-again experience) to those who repent in response to his message and are baptized.
That is 21 pages to scroll through. Do you have any ideas how to quickly find the applicable thread(s)? Maybe there is none.
Right. Sorry, wrong link. Try What would happen to people who don't acknowledge the true Jesus?
