Do we and everything exist in God's mind?

[playbluebabble]

Related to my last post, or first post -- isn't it normal to think that we all exist in God's mind?

One could even say we are figments of God's imagination, if we wished to go so far.

I am not sure if this is even "unorthodox theology" as there are a variety of verses which state or imply as much, such as that "in God we exist and have our being" and "Jesus rose to fill the entire universe". This also makes sense in light of the miracles of Jesus.

It is also true that the first verse I reference was actually from Paul pointing out a similar belief among Greeks. Under all of their other many gods. And this sort of belief is found through out the world, even in religions typically considered very polytheistic such as Hinduism and the concept of Brahma.


Fictionally, I think it has become a modern staple of science fiction, one finds this concept in some cult mind bending movies such as Identity, Revolver, and Inception... though it is also here and there elsewhere.

If you do not believe this, why, and what do you believe the substance of the universe is?

What does this mean about the firmness of creation? I do strongly believe that we are flesh, obviously, and as flesh are bound by a wide variety of rules -- and I believe that Jesus literally came in the flesh, was crucified, and resurrected himself on the third day.


It also does seem that earth is segmented off from everything else. Like how we might have virtual emulators or a virtual world in video games.

 

[Senecharnix]

Related to my last post, or first post -- isn't it normal to think that we all exist in God's mind?

One could even say we are figments of God's imagination, if we wished to go so far.

I am not sure if this is even "unorthodox theology" as there are a variety of verses which state or imply as much, such as that "in God we exist and have our being" and "Jesus rose to fill the entire universe". This also makes sense in light of the miracles of Jesus.

It is also true that the first verse I reference was actually from Paul pointing out a similar belief among Greeks. Under all of their other many gods. And this sort of belief is found through out the world, even in religions typically considered very polytheistic such as Hinduism and the concept of Brahma.


Fictionally, I think it has become a modern staple of science fiction, one finds this concept in some cult mind bending movies such as Identity, Revolver, and Inception... though it is also here and there elsewhere.

If you do not believe this, why, and what do you believe the substance of the universe is?

What does this mean about the firmness of creation? I do strongly believe that we are flesh, obviously, and as flesh are bound by a wide variety of rules -- and I believe that Jesus literally came in the flesh, was crucified, and resurrected himself on the third day.


It also does seem that earth is segmented off from everything else. Like how we might have virtual emulators or a virtual world in video games.

God resurrected Yeshua....

We are only part of God's mind in that His awareness permeates our reality. We, however, are separate from such in roughly the same way that we are seperate from radio signals...If everything is merely a part of God's mind, then He seems have a very brutal imagination in regard to Hell and other parts of the infernal regions....

 

[playbluebabble]

God resurrected Yeshua....

Is that in reference to me saying Jesus resurrected his own self, or in reference to Jesus saying "if you tear down this temple I will raise it up again in three days"?

Jesus pointed out further about that "I have the authority to lay down my life and the authority to take it back up again".

Does this mean God did not raise up Jesus? No.

God did raise up Jesus from the dead.

I do believe Jesus is God.

Can Jesus fill the whole universe and also exist in the flesh on earth? I do think so.

This is not alien to people.

We are only part of God's mind in that His awareness permeates our reality. We, however, are separate from such in roughly the same way that we are seperate from radio signals...If everything is merely a part of God's mind, then He seems have a very brutal imagination in regard to Hell and other parts of the infernal regions....

The word "mere" imagination is something which I would speak of when speaking of people and their capabilities.

People can barely sustain a single thought in their imagination. They can not lift a boat out of the water or move a mountain into the sea. Only by the Spirit of God can such things be done.

Jesus has the 'Spirit without limit".

I am sure the Spirit would confirm that everyone else has the Spirit with limit.

So, is it truly separate, "Spirit" and "imagination"? Do we dream with our spirits and without imagination, or perhaps with our imagination without spirit?

Spirit is the word for "wind" in both Hebrew and Greek. I see Spirit as lifeforce. Stones do not have lifeforce as even plants do, but what is the substance they are made of? If a man commands his hand to move, his spirit is that which commands and moves it? Jesus could command water to wine and the storms to stop.

On the infernal regions, I do not believe anyone will ever be able to boast of having felt more pain then God. As it says in Psalms, "even if I go down to the bottom most depths of the Abyss, there you are".

There is great reason to fear the fire of God, but can not that which people traded their soul for be burned away? And what then is left? Because smoke may rise "forever and ever" does that mean it is literally rising from an eternal fire which is always burning eternal bodies? Or does that mean that the smoke is forever remembered? And perhaps forever covering something up?

If you had parts of yourself you would wish to be no more, would you be able to truly forget it? Could you make your own self truly forget a painful past? If it is possible to create something into existence so that it is forever alive, is it not also possible to destroy something forever so that it is never again?

If the Lord lent his spirit to beings - man or celestial - can God not bring that spirit back to himself, if He so sees fit?

If that is necessary?

 

[JesusRoxGirl22]

I am a real person, not a dream or part of an imagination.

there is no way you could tell me otherwise.

we arent in the matrix bro! come back to reality Neo

 

[x141]

Related to my last post, or first post -- isn't it normal to think that we all exist in God's mind?

One could even say we are figments of God's imagination, if we wished to go so far.

I am not sure if this is even "unorthodox theology" as there are a variety of verses which state or imply as much, such as that "in God we exist and have our being" and "Jesus rose to fill the entire universe". This also makes sense in light of the miracles of Jesus.

It is also true that the first verse I reference was actually from Paul pointing out a similar belief among Greeks. Under all of their other many gods. And this sort of belief is found through out the world, even in religions typically considered very polytheistic such as Hinduism and the concept of Brahma.


Fictionally, I think it has become a modern staple of science fiction, one finds this concept in some cult mind bending movies such as Identity, Revolver, and Inception... though it is also here and there elsewhere.

If you do not believe this, why, and what do you believe the substance of the universe is?

What does this mean about the firmness of creation? I do strongly believe that we are flesh, obviously, and as flesh are bound by a wide variety of rules -- and I believe that Jesus literally came in the flesh, was crucified, and resurrected himself on the third day.


It also does seem that earth is segmented off from everything else. Like how we might have virtual emulators or a virtual world in video games.

Just some hypotheical questions ...

Where does God exist for you ...

Why did Cain and abel bring a sacrifice to God when he did not ask for one ...

If faith is the only way to enter into truth why would we not think that all things came out from one in the same fashion ...

It says, the whole earth is filled with his glory, that he fills heaven and earth, so why do we wait for something that has always been ...

If our faith makes us whole, then what is the obstacle to our faith ...


We have not begun to even scratch the surface of truth.

 

[Norah63]

Thats the first thing that came to mind when reading the OP.
Watching too many movies. Read more Scripture. Life is truth not fiction.

 

[x141]

I am a real person, not a dream or part of an imagination.

there is no way you could tell me otherwise.

we arent in the matrix bro! come back to reality Neo

What is born of spirit is spirit. This is the battle of identity, flesh or spirit. To Jesus they were one, the son of man is the son of God.

Where are you ... this was not an accusation from God to Adam, but a question he alone can provide the answer to. This answer was what Jesus was taught and by this became who he all along was. Anyone who is taught of the father comes to him, to this truth that he was, and this way, and life that he was.

In that day we will know this truth of he is in us and we are in him and he is in his father. It is knowing the truth that sets you free from this duality that our perception of truth is covered over with. The day of his revealing or this kingdom, or this life/son is in us which will bring everything that is without us in line with our perception.

 

[x141]

So, is it truly separate, "Spirit" and "imagination"? Do we dream with our spirits and without imagination, or perhaps with our imagination without spirit?

This has to do with the difference between the masculine and the femine, and the process of time; and no, their not, they never were.

 

[Phantasman]

Is that in reference to me saying Jesus resurrected his own self, or in reference to Jesus saying "if you tear down this temple I will raise it up again in three days"?

Jesus pointed out further about that "I have the authority to lay down my life and the authority to take it back up again".

Does this mean God did not raise up Jesus? No.

God did raise up Jesus from the dead.

I do believe Jesus is God.

Can Jesus fill the whole universe and also exist in the flesh on earth? I do think so.

This is not alien to people.




The word "mere" imagination is something which I would speak of when speaking of people and their capabilities.

People can barely sustain a single thought in their imagination. They can not lift a boat out of the water or move a mountain into the sea. Only by the Spirit of God can such things be done.

Jesus has the 'Spirit without limit".

I am sure the Spirit would confirm that everyone else has the Spirit with limit.

So, is it truly separate, "Spirit" and "imagination"? Do we dream with our spirits and without imagination, or perhaps with our imagination without spirit?

Spirit is the word for "wind" in both Hebrew and Greek. I see Spirit as lifeforce. Stones do not have lifeforce as even plants do, but what is the substance they are made of? If a man commands his hand to move, his spirit is that which commands and moves it? Jesus could command water to wine and the storms to stop.

On the infernal regions, I do not believe anyone will ever be able to boast of having felt more pain then God. As it says in Psalms, "even if I go down to the bottom most depths of the Abyss, there you are".

There is great reason to fear the fire of God, but can not that which people traded their soul for be burned away? And what then is left? Because smoke may rise "forever and ever" does that mean it is literally rising from an eternal fire which is always burning eternal bodies? Or does that mean that the smoke is forever remembered? And perhaps forever covering something up?

If you had parts of yourself you would wish to be no more, would you be able to truly forget it? Could you make your own self truly forget a painful past? If it is possible to create something into existence so that it is forever alive, is it not also possible to destroy something forever so that it is never again?

If the Lord lent his spirit to beings - man or celestial - can God not bring that spirit back to himself, if He so sees fit?

If that is necessary?

Hehe

Well, first off, Jesus said his Father was greater than him, so that's good enough for me to realize he is not the same as God. The fact he asked God to "let this cup pass from me" in Gethsemane is another. Why would he ask himself to change course, but said "not my will but thine be done" Two different spirits there. So quit making him Schizophrenic.

Jesus said that the Mind is between the soul and the spirit, and that is where visions are received. The soul and spirit belongs to God, the body to Earth. The soul is what controls the body by the conscious mind. Our spirit is in the spiritual realm but but so minute that the conscious mind cannot perceive anything spiritual, yet we are influenced by spiritual things.

God is all. Jesus said God was so omnipresent that he knew the numbers of hairs on your head. Actually, God knows where every atom in the universe is, and is part of it. He has no mind. He is all. Cannot be seen. He is light beyond light. Has no name. Ineffable. Beyond imagination, and no one has seen him.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

The gospel of truth is joy to those who have received from the Father of truth the gift of knowing him by the power of the Logos, who has come from the Pleroma and who is in the thought and the mind of the Father; he it is who is called "the Savior," since that is the name of the work which he must do for the redemption of those who have not known the Father. For the name of the gospel is the manifestation of hope, since that is the discovery of those who seek him, because the All sought him from whom it had come forth. You see, the All had been inside of him, that illimitable, inconceivable one, who is better than every thought.

This ignorance of the Father brought about terror and fear. And terror became dense like a fog, that no one was able to see. Because of this, error became strong. But it worked on its hylic substance vainly, because it did not know the truth. It was in a fashioned form while it was preparing, in power and in beauty, the equivalent of truth. This then, was not a humiliation for him, that illimitable, inconceivable one. For they were as nothing, this terror and this forgetfulness and this figure of falsehood, whereas this established truth is unchanging, unperturbed and completely beautiful.
~ Gospel of Truth

I think it is pretty interesting that in this text Christ is in the thought and mind of the Father. Obviously this can be read in more than one way. However, it seems to me that Christ may be an extension of the mind of God.

We could exist solely in the mind of God, however if we don't exist in the mind of God we surely are an extension of the mind of God.

"I am a real person, not a dream or part of an imagination."

This really depends on what you consider "real," and what you consider "imagination."

Does the physicality of something make it "real." I firmly say that: no it certainly does not.

#1 Our reality is based on our perceptions and senses. These can easily be fooled and corrupted. Any number of mental illnesses can cause delusions and hallucinations. There is simply no way for the individual to know if the way the perceive the world is correct or consistent with the perception of others, or if there is a universal tangible reality whatsoever.

#2 The physical world is temporary and the spiritual world is permanent. "All objects must someday lose their physical forms." As far as I am concerned, nothing that is temporary is "real." In this way the physical world exists as an illusion because things that appear permanent, to our relatively short lifespan, are also temporary. The universe is born and dies within about 15 billion years, which would be nothing but a puff of air if compared to eternity.

The Gospel of Truth points the fact that the physical world is an illusion, however the underlying reality of God (or the spiritual world), is unchanging truth.

#3 When we perceive something as "solid" it appears "real." There is no way to know if something is solid or if it only appears to be solid. When you dream things appear very real and solid, and you can easily feel things that you touch.

If we exist solely in the mind of God then that is the underlying reality to our perceptions. Things appear to be solid and tangible to us because of how we perceive them. Whether they are tangible and exist in "real space" (or something like that), or only appear to be tangible makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.

I see no reason whatsoever that we couldn't simply exist within the mind of God.

 

[Soulgazer]

Xp
Does everyone see colors the same way? Obviously not, or everyone's favorite color would be the same.

 

[strangertoo]

God resurrected Yeshua....

dunno what that is supposed to show ???

We are only part of God's mind in that His awareness permeates our reality.

that is an obvious logical error if it's not meant poetically ... God clearly ahs no consciousness as spirit because as we now know, time is created integral with space and matter in universes and consciousness is time dependent , thus created, not creator ... and there we have a problem even talking about God without breaking the first commandment, our words point at time-dependent things, and God is not ... so our words are worse than useless... one PRINCIPAL reason why God communicates DIRECTLY with all who are His in the world [and the next] not by scripture, not by men speaking, not by writing... Heb 8:10-11, John 16:13, etc

We, however, are separate from such in roughly the same way that we are seperate from radio signals...If everything is merely a part of God's mind, then He seems have a very brutal imagination in regard to Hell and other parts of the infernal regions....

I would say virtual reality, dreams, illusions, delusions seem to convey some of the relationships between God and men ... so much so taht I view spirit as reality [as it is endless , 'always' the same] and physical 'reality' as the fake , because it ends, so is not 'of ' God ... and man is made in God's image, spirit, not flesh...

we even 'look at' flesh with Physics and see it is only energy, mostly space with 'nothing' in it but force fields [but have no idea what 'force' is ]

 

[Senecharnix]

Is that in reference to me saying Jesus resurrected his own self, or in reference to Jesus saying "if you tear down this temple I will raise it up again in three days"?

Oh really? Let us see what the Scriptures say.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.


So far, so good. But then we come to the next two examples:

Matthew 26:59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death; 60 But found none: yes, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, 61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.


Mark 14:56 For many bore false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together. 57 And there arose certain, and bore false witness against him, saying, 58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.


Hmmm, it seems that whoever wrote the Gospel of John took liberties with the truth....


Jesus pointed out further about that "I have the authority to lay down my life and the authority to take it back up again".

So what. God can give anyone He choses the authority to do whatever....


Does this mean God did not raise up Jesus? No.

God did raise up Jesus from the dead.

Correct....

I do believe Jesus is God.

You are entitled to your opinion. But I respectfully disagree. Yeshua is not God. He is the Son of God....

Can Jesus fill the whole universe and also exist in the flesh on earth? I do think so.

He is divine. So, yes, he can do all sorts of wonderous things. None of that, however, means he is God. Only the Father is God....

 

[strangertoo]

Xp
Does everyone see colors the same way? Obviously not, or everyone's favorite color would be the same.

a philosophical error , colour [as seen] is not well-defined . one can change perceived colour of monochromatic light ,as dramatically as from one colour to any other , by simply changing the background... there are genetic differences [colour blindness is one extreme case, species differences too are vast, some critters even see UV, some see infra-red ... how would you describe these colours - or anything about God except as directly 'communicated by God ? (not in words!) ]
but there is some basis for believing many folks see colours the same way [the same mechanism] , it's just that we learn their NAMES differently ... cross-cultural studies and studies of twins help establish this .

 

[strangertoo]

Jesus is not God

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jesus SHOWED us the Father, God , by himself , because God is Love , Jesus showed us what Love is...

the MISTAKE is to think God is physical , to look for and object or person that is God ... but God is Love and that is NOT a physical object, it is a spirit of being , it is being ONE ...you cannot find anything physical that IS oneness ... but you can see when someone is WHOLE with their self instead of in conflict and shame and guilt and denial over sin [opposite of Love]

bizarrely they all claim to be sincere sinners [whatever that means, if anything] but they all know they have NOT received all Truth from God and were not taught by God but by men and mangled words of 'theology' [as if anyone had any words or knowledge about God as a sinner]

that is why no sinner knows God until they stop sinning and Love... why any sin destroys every good work [Ezekiel 18:24]

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
...
1 John 4:16 ..God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil...

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

this is why all religion fails even after it unites , it is divided because it is led by sinners, not ONE because men try to know God whilst still sinning, and so get Satan as god instead, even eventually [false, fake] god of virtually all men through religion and politics [combined again as under Rome in creating fake 'Christianity' - stealing Christ's name for mass paganism] -Rev 13:3-4- with a couple of thousand saints only still alive who reject him as god

 

[Soulgazer]

If we look at some of the Early Christian writings, God before creation existed without physical form or limits, or even thought. Just potentiality.

According to several sources, when God had His first thought, he gave His creation free will, and his created beings also had thoughts powerful enough to have free will.

This process of creation is called "emanation", wherein all intelligent life has the freedom to think and create.

According to these writings, physical creation is the thought of a thought of a thought, nested like matryoshka dolls, all in one overarching mind.

 

[Senecharnix]

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

That is what happened. But it does not mean he is actually God....


Jesus SHOWED us the Father, God , by himself , because God is Love , Jesus showed us what Love is...

the MISTAKE is to think God is physical , to look for and object or person that is God ... but God is Love and that is NOT a physical object, it is a spirit of being , it is being ONE ...you cannot find anything physical that IS oneness ... but you can see when someone is WHOLE with their self instead of in conflict and shame and guilt and denial over sin [opposite of Love]

bizarrely they all claim to be sincere sinners [whatever that means, if anything] but they all know they have NOT received all Truth from God and were not taught by God but by men and mangled words of 'theology' [as if anyone had any words or knowledge about God as a sinner]

that is why no sinner knows God until they stop sinning and Love... why any sin destroys every good work [Ezekiel 18:24]

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
...
1 John 4:16 ..God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil...

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

this is why all religion fails even after it unites , it is divided because it is led by sinners, not ONE because men try to know God whilst still sinning, and so get Satan as god instead, even eventually [false, fake] god of virtually all men through religion and politics [combined again as under Rome in creating fake 'Christianity' - stealing Christ's name for mass paganism] -Rev 13:3-4- with a couple of thousand saints only still alive who reject him as god

Yeshua was and is the supreme example of God...Religions are so many crooked paths leading away from the Truth. The only realiable sources of spiritual truth are God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit....

 

[playbluebabble]

I am a real person, not a dream or part of an imagination.

there is no way you could tell me otherwise.

we arent in the matrix bro! come back to reality Neo

People are alive by the substance of God, the Spirit of God.

Imagination is typically seen as inert, as the building blocks of Spirit. The tree branches blown by the wind.

Because our own imagination is not firm usually does not mean that this is the same thing as the imagination of God anymore then a pebble or grain of sand is the same thing as the rock of a planet.

 

[playbluebabble]

If we look at some of the Early Christian writings, God before creation existed without physical form or limits, or even thought. Just potentiality.

According to several sources, when God had His first thought, he gave His creation free will, and his created beings also had thoughts powerful enough to have free will.

This process of creation is called "emanation", wherein all intelligent life has the freedom to think and create.

According to these writings, physical creation is the thought of a thought of a thought, nested like matryoshka dolls, all in one overarching mind.

I have not read those writings, but come to similar conclusions.

That does not mean my conclusions are final, because too often I come to conclusions which others have made so that I can speak to them where they are.

Otherwise how could people speak.

 

[playbluebabble]

Hehe

Well, first off, Jesus said his Father was greater than him, so that's good enough for me to realize he is not the same as God. The fact he asked God to "let this cup pass from me" in Gethsemane is another. Why would he ask himself to change course, but said "not my will but thine be done" Two different spirits there. So quit making him Schizophrenic.

So you would never pray to Jesus nor say Jesus is God?

I wonder, how do you feel if you could write out and post to everyone, "I pray to Jesus" or "Jesus is God"? Would you feel that is wrong and not be willing to write it?

I do think a great many people would not feel comfortable starting their prayers with "Jesus" nor with stating "Jesus is God".

There are a vast number of seeming contradictions in Scripture, as in our own speech, and to find the truth is to combine them all and assume the speaker is telling the truth and see how they are not contradictions.

I could easily add to your arguments about where Jesus and God the Father are divided, or I could add to the other side of the argument from Scripture... but I think I am more interested in what you believe about Jesus.

And I want you to say it, or tell me you can not do this.

I hope this is not being too demanding, but I am very curious as to what you will discover when doing so -- if anything.