Divine Healing Training (JGLM)- a fraud?

confused_again · Apr 23, 2010

hi, take a look at this website "revivalorriots.org/jglm-dht" I'm not trying to be judgmental but i dont feel comfortable about the "healing" part but I'm giving it a try...

From the website:

The links below are to a 19-part teaching series that has radically changed our lives. The man speaking is Curry Blake, who is the general overseer of John G. Lake Ministries, based in Denver, Colorado. Since listening through these teachings and applying them to our spiritual walk, we have seen countless people healed and set freeand likewise empowered them to do the same in many instances.

These teachings are for:

Anybody who has any semblance of a desire to see the sick healed and set free
Anybody who is tired of having a powerless prayer life with little to no results.
Anybody who is skeptical of the healing ministry
Anybody who believes that miracles, signs and wonders passed away
Anybody who is unsure of Gods will for healing and deliverance
Anybody who doesnt believe that all sickness is from the devil
Anybody, anybody, anybody!

miss-a · Apr 23, 2010

I didn't look at it, but I'm concerned that you are not comfortable with it. I question if God is leading. Please pray about that and talk to your pastor about it as well.

fm107 · Apr 23, 2010

My friend,

I haven't listened to it but I don't need to to know it is a fraud.

You cannot train a divine gift.

Secondly, we no longer have the gift of healing, that was only given to some of the early Christians.

If we want someone healed, all we can do is pray and ask God for mercy on that particular person.

ezeric · Apr 24, 2010

Sorry Fm107

I have seen most people healed.

Its the same word in greek 'sozo', to be saved or healed or delivered.

Like salvation it is a gift - everything good comes from GOD we know that.
So, its nothing to earn, or strive for.

I've seen demons cast out, cancers healed and many many healed.
Its 100% real, and the only reason some don't walk in it, is because they don't believe it.
They don't want to learn and grow.

JESUS warned us about just that

"Therefore consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him." Luke 8:18

If you don't act on what HE told you, then even that will be taken away.
Repent of your own thoughts, and accept the gospel message.
Its supposed to be 'Good News'.

-eric

fm107 · Apr 24, 2010

Ezeric,

I'm talking about physical healing.

Physical healing was given only to certain believers such as Paul and Peter.

This divine gift has since ceased.

I believe this scripture shows us that even Paul no longer had this power later in life:

2 Timothy 4:20
Erastus stayed in Corinth, and I left Trophimus sick in Miletus.

The bible makes it clear what we should do when a brother gets sick:

James 5:14
Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.

No mention there of divine healing is there?

1 Corinthians 13:8
But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

Just like the gifts mentioned above, I firmly believe that healing likewise has passed away. These gifts served there purposes.

All we need to do now if we want someone healed is pray that God will heal them. But people do not have the ability to heal people anymore, that was a gift long since ceased.

P.S. Can you heal people Ezeric?

ezeric · Apr 24, 2010

Hey brother

I love you man, but you simply don't believe (the complete gospel).
They have not passed away, you can't find any scripture that says that.

In fact, JESUS said 'to lay hands on the sick, and they will recover'.
Mark 16:18 also Luke 10:19

Healed, Saved, Delivered are all the SAME WORD in Scripture.

JESUS said, what is easier to say 'your sins are forgiven, or get up and walk'. Luke 5:23

Because its all the same.

Your comment about some being sick in the bible, I am not disputing.
Christians get sick, Christians still sin.

But JESUS still heals and forgives.
Paul did leave him, what is wrong with that? (HE does recover later).
Paul couldn't heal anyway only JESUS!
Paul can't forgive, only JESUS!

And your points in James...
Come on read the entire verse please!

Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. James 5:14-15

And the prayer offered in faith will make
the sick person well...

You also discussed, 1 Corinthians 13:8
But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away

I can agree with this statement because it seems that for you knowledge has passed away!

Is that true?
Has knowledge passed away from you?

Brother, you were only where I used to be, you simply based your faith on the little you saw.

Never much prayer answer, no miracles, no abudant life.
Been there, and rejoice in the LORD, to show me out of HIS GRACE, what I was missing (but I really wanted)

Brother, don't be an un-believing believer!

Believe it already!

-eric

confused_again · Apr 24, 2010

what I believe and understand about healing miracles is that God can work through doctors or medicine to improve the the condition of your health but not necessarily heal you completely just by faith alone and you not seeking professional medical help when they are available. (this seems to be 'testing' God)

heron · Apr 24, 2010

Millions of people have reported healings from God in this generation.

Jesus healed with compassion, and he sent his disciples out to heal. His heart for people was restoration, health, relief, deliverance, wholeness. This motivation has not changed.

There is nothing in scriptures that says that Jesus does not want us to also heal others. The gift or skill is not about us, but about the people who desperately need relief.

About the training, I agree it's awkward. Someone came to our church once to do workshops, and it made me a little queasy too, someone asking for money to train, as if it's a skill. But if you look at our normal response to considering healing, most of us say, "that's not my gift, it's something those other people do." So half of the workshop is probably helping people get over that hurdle of refusing to consider it. The money just covers a person's time and expenses, but I am not very comfortable with that either.

Jesus sent out 70 believers to heal. They weren't the chosen 12, so you can assume they had only listened to His teachings for a year or two. Or less. Jesus still trusted them with it. Luke 10

The point is not our ability. God wants to get some things done. Will we live in our selfish confinement and limits, or allow Him to work through us?

You don't need to learn skills in energy transfer or magic healing powers. God is the one with the power, and He dwells in you. You need to ask Him, and He will hear your prayer and activate your request. He will act. He will save.

It is His will to ask, seek, and knock. It is His will that we be made whole. It is His will that we care for others.

Not Ideal · Apr 27, 2010

I didn't look at the website either.
But I just think, Jesus healed in the New Testament, and I believe healings occasionally still take place. If you were to pray for someone to be healed, it wouldn't be you who would be responsible for healing the person, it would be God. But He might work through your prayers... And if He were to choose not to heal someone you pray for, you also wouldn't have to feel as if you are to blame.

truerevival · Feb 28, 2011

any more info on these guys?

SplendidTree · Mar 2, 2011

I do think people can heal however in my opinion some workshops seem rather awkward. God can use anyone anytime workshop or not. I really agree with heron's answer how it may get you over that hurdle...still to me seems very odd.

fm107 · Mar 2, 2011

[

ezeric said:
In fact, JESUS said 'to lay hands on the sick, and they will recover'.
Mark 16:18 also Luke 10:19

Ok, let's look at those scriptures:

Mark 16:18
they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

Can you drink deadly poison and not get hurt? Can you lay your hands on sick people and make them well?

Luke 10:19
I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.

And can you trample on snakes and scorpions? Can nothing harm you?

These powers were given to the apostles to show that this new message was in fact from God. Just like Jesus says:

John 10:25
Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me

John 10:38
But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

John 3:2
He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."

[

ezeric said:
Your comment about some being sick in the bible, I am not disputing.
Christians get sick, Christians still sin.

You totally missed my point. I'm not stating they get sick, I'm pointing out that the apostle did not heal him. If he had the power of healing then why didn't he heal him?

[

ezeric said:
And your points in James...
Come on read the entire verse please!

Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. James 5:14-15

And the prayer offered in faith will make
the sick person well...

Um, yeah, I'm not disputing that or leaving that verse out. Adding in the next verse makes no difference to my point of view.

The reason I quoted the verse was to show that they were NOT told to lay on the hands here. Why? No, they are told to pray in faith. Tell me why they are not told to lay on the hands and heal them. Tell me that.

ezeric said:
You also discussed, 1 Corinthians 13:8
But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away

I can agree with this statement because it seems that for you knowledge has passed away!

Is that true?
Has knowledge passed away from you?

Knowledge has passed away, all the knowledge given by the Holy Spirit has been given and now from that we have the bible. Therefore the revelatory knowledge has indeed passed away.

ezeric said:
Brother, you were only where I used to be, you simply based your faith on the little you saw.

Never much prayer answer, no miracles, no abudant life.
Been there, and rejoice in the LORD, to show me out of HIS GRACE, what I was missing (but I really wanted)

Brother, don't be an un-believing believer!

Believe it already!

-eric

Sorry to hear about your past difficulties. What I can confirm is that I witness my prayers answered very often, and I lead a very abundant and blessed life. Trust me I believe. But I also believe that this gift has come and gone. Perhaps you can tell me the last time you healed someone? Since you are not an "unbelieving brother."

thelionofjudahministry · Dec 20, 2011

confused_again said:
hi, take a look at this website "revivalorriots.org/jglm-dht" I'm not trying to be judgmental but i dont feel comfortable about the "healing" part but I'm giving it a try...

From the website:

The links below are to a 19-part teaching series that has radically changed our lives. The man speaking is Curry Blake, who is the general overseer of John G. Lake Ministries, based in Denver, Colorado. Since listening through these teachings and applying them to our spiritual walk, we have seen countless people healed and set freeand likewise empowered them to do the same in many instances.

These teachings are for:

Anybody who has any semblance of a desire to see the sick healed and set free

Anybody who is tired of having a powerless prayer life with little to no results.

Anybody who is skeptical of the healing ministry

Anybody who believes that miracles, signs and wonders passed away

Anybody who is unsure of Gods will for healing and deliverance

Anybody who doesnt believe that all sickness is from the devil

Anybody, anybody, anybody!

brother get born-again you will see the life with JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH

scrofford · Dec 20, 2011

fm107 said:
My friend,

I haven't listened to it but I don't need to to know it is a fraud.

You cannot train a divine gift.

Secondly, we no longer have the gift of healing, that was only given to some of the early Christians.

If we want someone healed, all we can do is pray and ask God for mercy on that particular person.

All we can do is pray? Prayer is powerful and the FIRST thing we should do! And if healing isn't for today then why did Jesus in the NEW TESTAMENT say in Mark 16:17 and 18 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tounges; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; THEY WILL LAY HANDS ON THE SICK AND THEY WILL RECOVER.

If you read the New Testament, it talks about laying hands on the sick and them being healed! James 5:14 states Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church , and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

So how can you say the gift of healing is not for today? It's spoken about all through the New Testament. God's Word doesn't and will never change. So if you are a Christian and you believe in God's Word, then you need to understand divine healing IS for today!

scrofford · Dec 20, 2011

fm107 said:
Ezeric,

I'm talking about physical healing.

Physical healing was given only to certain believers such as Paul and Peter.

This divine gift has since ceased.

I believe this scripture shows us that even Paul no longer had this power later in life:

2 Timothy 4:20
Erastus stayed in Corinth, and I left Trophimus sick in Miletus.

The bible makes it clear what we should do when a brother gets sick:

James 5:14
Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.

No mention there of divine healing is there?

1 Corinthians 13:8
But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

Just like the gifts mentioned above, I firmly believe that healing likewise has passed away. These gifts served there purposes.

All we need to do now if we want someone healed is pray that God will heal them. But people do not have the ability to heal people anymore, that was a gift long since ceased.

P.S. Can you heal people Ezeric?

People NEVER had the power to heal people. It was always done through the name of Jesus. We as humans have and never have had any power in ourselves to heal anyone. But we do have the authority in Jesus name.

Your interpretation of James is wrong. Every Christian is able to pray for someone and see them healed! It's not just something God gave or gives to a select few.

Also, these gifts have not already served their purposes. They are as much for today as they were back when the Apostles were being used by the Lord to touch people.

MorganFamilyMinistry · Dec 20, 2011

I think it is important to remember that God is in control. When we talk about people doing the healing, we need to remember that the healing comes from God. We pray and ask for the healing. Weather he heals them or not is up to him. I have a friend who was diagnosed with cancer. The doctors operated on him and then told him that it didn't look good. they wanted to start chemotherapy. He refused. Lots of people from Africa, Mexico and the US prayed for him one night. He was cured. The doctors can't explain it. But he has a great testimony.
I have seen others healed in a similar way. But I've also seen others who died from their illnesses.

Scott

Fierce Badger · Dec 20, 2011

confused_again said:
hi, take a look at this website "revivalorriots.org/jglm-dht" I'm not trying to be judgmental but i dont feel comfortable about the "healing" part but I'm giving it a try...

From the website:

The links below are to a 19-part teaching series that has radically changed our lives. The man speaking is Curry Blake, who is the general overseer of John G. Lake Ministries, based in Denver, Colorado. Since listening through these teachings and applying them to our spiritual walk, we have seen countless people healed and set freeand likewise empowered them to do the same in many instances.

These teachings are for:

Anybody who has any semblance of a desire to see the sick healed and set free

Anybody who is tired of having a powerless prayer life with little to no results.

Anybody who is skeptical of the healing ministry

Anybody who believes that miracles, signs and wonders passed away

Anybody who is unsure of Gods will for healing and deliverance

Anybody who doesnt believe that all sickness is from the devil

Anybody, anybody, anybody!

I've looked at their website and I think they steeped in very bad theology. On their page about their beliefs, it says this:

We believe Divine Healing is the power of God to heal the sick (in mind or body), that healing for every person was included in Christs atoning sacrifice, and that it is Gods will for every Christian to minister healing to anyone at any time.

Stop and think about this quote for just a minute. If it logically follows that physical healing for us right now is part of the atonement, then it also logically follows that those who are suffering physical illness have not partaken in the atonement. Do you see just how horrible this is? Not only does someone who is ill have to worry about their illness, they have to worry about their own salvation as well!

My friend, you would do well to avoid such people. Their confused theology will only drag you down.

scrofford · Dec 21, 2011

Fierce Badger said:
I've looked at their website and I think they steeped in very bad theology. On their page about their beliefs, it says this:

Stop and think about this quote for just a minute. If it logically follows that physical healing for us right now is part of the atonement, then it also logically follows that those who are suffering physical illness have not partaken in the atonement. Do you see just how horrible this is? Not only does someone who is ill have to worry about their illness, they have to worry about their own salvation as well!

My friend, you would do well to avoid such people. Their confused theology will only drag you down.

So are you saying that it's NOT God's will for every single person to be healed? I disagree! The Bible is very clear on this. Jesus has redeemed us from sickness, and though there are people who don't get healed right away or who don't get healed at all, it doesn't mean it's not God's will that they be healed.

znr · Dec 21, 2011

Fierce Badger said:
I've looked at their website and I think they steeped in very bad theology. On their page about their beliefs, it says this:

Stop and think about this quote for just a minute. If it logically follows that physical healing for us right now is part of the atonement, then it also logically follows that those who are suffering physical illness have not partaken in the atonement. Do you see just how horrible this is? Not only does someone who is ill have to worry about their illness, they have to worry about their own salvation as well!

My friend, you would do well to avoid such people. Their confused theology will only drag you down.

We believe Divine Healing is the power of God to heal the sick (in mind or body), that healing for every person was included in Christ’s atoning sacrifice, and that it is God’s will for every Christian to minister healing to anyone at any time.

It's more likely that whoever wrote that statement didn't put enough thought into how it might be interpreted so they overlooked sentence structure and editing - and probably less likely that it's based on poor theology.

MorganFamilyMinistry · Dec 21, 2011

scrofford said:
So are you saying that it's NOT God's will for every single person to be healed? I disagree! The Bible is very clear on this. Jesus has redeemed us from sickness, and though there are people who don't get healed right away or who don't get healed at all, it doesn't mean it's not God's will that they be healed.

Read the book of Job. Especially the part where God rebukes Job.

Also Paul says in 2 Corinthians 12:7-10
7 To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christs power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christs sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Thanks,
Scott

Divine Healing Training (JGLM)- a fraud?

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