Did Jesus ever harm anyone?

Setyoufree · Jan 2, 2014

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him....

Now those who try to make God in their own image - after their sinful, violent behavior, try to say Christ took a whip to the money changers.

Here's the context:

John 2:13 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

Jesus made a whip to drive out the cattle & sheep. Naturally as they flooded out the people went with them....

Stating that Christ whipped or beat the money changers is supposition....

concretecamper · Jan 2, 2014

Setyoufree said:
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him....

Now those who try to make God in their own image - after their sinful, violent behavior, try to say Christ took a whip to the money changers.

Here's the context:

John 2:13 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

Jesus made a whip to drive out the cattle & sheep. Naturally as they flooded out the people went with them....

Stating that Christ whipped or beat the money changers is supposition....

Who claims Christ whipped the money changers?

ebia · Jan 2, 2014

concretecamper said:
Who claims Christ whipped the money changers?

Some do - often in threads about gun ownership.

Sarah Sarah · Jan 2, 2014

It depends on what sources you wish to consider when seeking the answer.

The Gnostics, "Infancy Gospel of Thomas", which is not to be confused with the Gospel of Thomas, is an apocryphal (non-canon) account of Christ as a child.
Therein we're told he was violent and even killed playmates.

IV. 1 After that again he went through the village, and a child ran and dashed against his shoulder. And Jesus was provoked and said unto him: Thou shalt not finish thy course (lit. go all thy way). And immediately he fell down and died. But certain when they saw what was done said: Whence was this young child born, for that every word of his is an accomplished work? And the parents of him that was dead came unto Joseph, and blamed him, saying: Thou that hast such a child canst not dwell with us in the village: or do thou teach him to bless and not to curse: for he slayeth our children.

Of course there's his rage at the temple and against the money changers.
And then of course one has to recall that Jesus is God incarnate. God doesn't change, he is eternal.
If then you have read the old testament you will then see that yes, in point of fact Jesus was violent. Only then he was known as, "I Am."

Setyoufree said:
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him....

Now those who try to make God in their own image - after their sinful, violent behavior, try to say Christ took a whip to the money changers.

Here's the context:

John 2:13 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

Jesus made a whip to drive out the cattle & sheep. Naturally as they flooded out the people went with them....

Stating that Christ whipped or beat the money changers is supposition....

Nanopants · Jan 2, 2014

I'd take a whipping from Jesus any day over the mental and emotional abuse that's often spewed from pulpits. I don't see what the big deal is friend.

RDKirk · Jan 2, 2014

ebia said:
Some do - often in threads about gun ownership.

Yeah, I've seen that.

But Jesus did curse the Pharisees, lawyers, and scribes. I suspect that when the Lord of Creation says, "Woe be unto you!" that it leaves a mark.

Emil Rez52 · Jan 2, 2014

ebia said:
Some do - often in threads about gun ownership.

lol

What a big surprise. I suppose Jesus ate ribs every Sunday and wore a cowboy hat too. Like every good 'Murican!

ebia · Jan 2, 2014

Emil Rez52 said:
lol What a big surprise. I suppose Jesus ate ribs every Sunday and wore a cowboy hat too. Like every good 'Murican!

Mm. Kind of John Wayne in a toga.

Nanopants · Jan 2, 2014

In any case, the facts are: 1) He made a whip, 2) He drove them out 3) His disciples noticed the zeal He displayed. One can easily surmise that He must have been swinging the whip in such a way as to drive people out of the temple. Or, how else would He have driven them out?

Ok. If I make a whip, and I come to visit you in church, and then politely ask you to leave, are you going to leave?

What must I do to drive you out?

I think you may be straining at knats here btw. Whatever He did, He probably didn't seriously injure anyone.

Willie T · Jan 2, 2014

The simple thing is that he lived under Jewish Law, and was considered sinless under that law. Would whipping people have broken that law? You decide.

ebia · Jan 2, 2014

Sarah Sarah said:
It depends on what sources you wish to consider when seeking the answer. The Gnostics, "Infancy Gospel of Thomas", which is not to be confused with the Gospel of Thomas, is an apocryphal (non-canon) account of Christ as a child. Therein we're told he was violent and even killed playmates. Of course there's his rage at the temple and against the money changers. And then of course one has to recall that Jesus is God incarnate. God doesn't change, he is eternal. If then you have read the old testament you will then see that yes, in point of fact Jesus was violent. Only then he was known as, "I Am."

Why would you put any store in an extraordinarily dodgy, second century text?

concretecamper · Jan 2, 2014

Willie T said:
The simple thing is that he lived under Jewish Law, and was considered sinless under that law. Would whipping people have broken that law? You decide.

Your point?

The thrust of the passage is not whether Jesus whipped anyone. It was turning His house into a place of business and not a place of worship....and a rather cheating business at that. The pharisees and scribes were in the business of selling animals for sacrifice at the temple. They would resell the same animals multiple time to increase profits.

Willie T · Jan 2, 2014

concretecamper said:
Your point?

The thrust of the passage is not whether Jesus whipped anyone. It was turning His house into a place of business and not a place of worship....and a rather cheating business at that. The pharisees and scribes were in the business of selling animals for sacrifice at the temple. They would resell the same animals multiple time to increase profits.

Perhaps you missed the question asked by the OP?

concretecamper · Jan 2, 2014

Willie T said:
Perhaps you missed the question asked by the OP?

Yeah...ok:o

Willie T · Jan 2, 2014

No problem. I sometimes get caught up in just the immediate scope of the last few posts, myself, and forget that someone actually started the thread on possibly an entirely different perspective.

98cwitr · Jan 2, 2014

Setyoufree said:
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him....

Now those who try to make God in their own image - after their sinful, violent behavior, try to say Christ took a whip to the money changers.

Here's the context:

John 2:13 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

Jesus made a whip to drive out the cattle & sheep. Naturally as they flooded out the people went with them....

Stating that Christ whipped or beat the money changers is supposition....

Matthew 10:34-37
New International Version (NIV)
34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[a]
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

So much for honoring your father and mother

RDKirk · Jan 3, 2014

98cwitr said:
Matthew 10:34-37
New International Version (NIV)
34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[a]
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

So much for honoring your father and mother

I suspect that even among the most observant Jews, "honor your father and your mother" was limited by a presumption that they were in obedience to God. The Law did not require a child to fail in his own obedience of the Law for the sake of someone who was being disobedient...if if that someone was a parent.

Setyoufree · Jan 3, 2014

Sarah Sarah said:
And then of course one has to recall that Jesus is God incarnate. God doesn't change, he is eternal. If then you have read the old testament you will then see that yes, in point of fact Jesus was violent. Only then he was known as, "I Am."

Then you are reading the OT through human spectacles. Jesus said, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father." Look it up.

The thing is did Jesus ever hurt anyone?

Answer: No.

Setyoufree · Jan 3, 2014

Nanopants said:
One can easily surmise that He must have been swinging the whip in such a way as to drive people out of the temple. Or, how else would He have driven them out?

By driving out the animals the people were swept out too....

Setyoufree · Jan 3, 2014

98cwitr said:
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

The gospel offends the self-righteous. Hence, in that respect, Jesus' message brings division.

Did Jesus ever harm anyone?

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