Did I marry my Pastor also when I married his daughter, can I really know GODS will?

[joesloppy]

Ok, are you ready for this; This seems like a crazy time in my life and I wonder and am sure there are others out there who have or are going through this also.
I married a pastor’s daughter, we attend his church, and we have been married for almost two years now. I am 23 and my wife is also. We have no children and are active members in our church.

There has been a lot of conflict here and there between me and my wife’s dad (the Pastor), mainly because I do things without ASKING him if I should do them. Such as attending Bible College at a church he disagrees with. I told him I was going but I did not ASK him if I should go. My wife was torn between her Dad and me literally. We separated for awhile; this was right before we were married. After Bible College, we did get married; I did not go a second year because I thought I would lose my finance forever. My wife struggled with the fact that her dad would tell her how wrong I was against God and his Church for doing this and began to believe this also. I was in rebellion for going to a bible college at a different church pretty much.

While getting ready to marry my wife, before the wedding, there was more conflict. This wasn't Gods timing, we were rushing things, and he knew that this wasn't Gods will right now, were just some of the things I was hearing. My wife and I had been courting for 3 years, I felt it was right to marry her; I had a house ready and a car, plus a wonderful job to support us. But this time, thank GOD, my wife chose to go with the planned date and we did get married.

There are plenty of little situation that have gone on but now here is the big one I am facing now.

My wife and I have been praying and seeking God on moving away from my hometown and relocating into the country. We both agreed and began to seek GOD on this matter. Well about 1 month later an opportunity came up to leave our home town to move a couple hours away and start a new job with a great company. They would give me a 50% increase in salary, which was another thing I needed in order for my wife to stay at home to raise children we plan on having. So everything was great, I had an interview and they wanted me to start in two weeks!

I came home and told my wife, and she said it was time to tell her parents. Well, I did, and as expected I was accused of running away from GOD, abandoning the Church and our Ministry, and Being out of Gods will for my life. But they would still love us of course if we left. Well after it was all said and done, my wife went alone to talk to her dad and when she came back, she began questioning our true purpose for this move. To make a long story short, it got real bad, she would leave and go talk to her dad everyday and come back yelling and crying that we were doing the wrong thing, we were running away from GOD, my own wife was saying these things, I could not believe it. It shocked and hurt me a lot.

So we had another family meeting and her dad boldly stated that this was not Gods will for our lives and he knows Gods will for our lives, that we would be getting ourselves into trouble and away from GOD.

I am so lost right now, I though I knew my wife, I thought I knew my purpose, I thought I knew GOD, but I am beginning to think I really can't know GOD, I am just a STUPID sheep that can't reason GODS voice from SATANS. That I need to depend on my wifes DAD (my Pastor) to know the will of GOD for me, I need HELP, ADVICE, SCRIPTURES, PRAYERS, thank you...

 

[chriso]

When god joined you together you and your wife became one. It might be best if you attend another church besides the one your father in law pastors. Sometimes well meaning parents can cause more trouble for their married children by trying to help them . I would suggest you taking a course "Experiencing God" by Henry Blackaby it is really good in helping us to understand God's will in our lives. Maybe you should talk to your father in law and tell him that you and your wife want to make your own choices and you would really like his support. Don't forget to Pray, Pray, Pray. Put your trust in the Lord and he will bring both you and your wife through this difficult time in your life.

 

[GREG]

YOur wife has to join you.... you are a team of one. She cant run to Dad everytime and has to rely on her husband (you). You are doing what is best for your family which is you and your wife..... Let her know how much it hurts she bring her dad into your relationship. She is afraid of how her dad may look at her. He is judging you but then againdoesnt want to loose his baby girl. It isnt right and he should know this as a Pastor....

Greg

 

[ebd]

Joe:

In Genesis 2:24, the Bible talks about a man and wife leaving and cleaving (leaving their parents and cleaving to each other). It sounds like you and your wife are looking at heavy resistance from your father-in-law in this area. If there is some way that you can "respectfully disagree" with your father-in-law, you can still honour her parents (because we still need to honour our parents). It's allright to disagree with them on things, but we can do it respectfully. It sounds like it's going to be a tough ride ahead of you, since it sounds like you'll need to settle this over with your wife first so that there is some unity between the two of you first.

As for whether or not you can hear the voice of God, *you can*...Christ says that His sheep know His voice. (John 10). Chriso's and Greg's suggestions are good ideas. You can also continue praying about God's direction as you were before. I would be cautious about accepting someone else's revelation of *specific* guidance from God for you (kind of like what you're talking about in your post) until God confirms it to you personally. If you personally don't feel peace about it, then keep praying about it until you get a clear yes/no.

Just in case this job opportunity passes by (it might not pass either...the Lord might open the doors wide for you in this situation), please don't get discouraged. The whole situation may be exposing a problem that needs to be dealt with starting now...until it gets resolved, before you and your wife can move on to other things. God will always look after His children. I think that if this particular job passes you by while you both deal with this issue, God will still be there for you in the future and that there will be other doors for you to go through.

I do think that you and your wife need to continue the leaving and cleaving process that you started with your marriage. It sounds like you also know it too, and I just want to let you know that I agree with you.

God bless you both!

ebd

 

[ceres]

I agree with everything said so far. It sounds like your father in law is using "God's will" and "God's voice" as a method of control and manipulation. He is probably scared of losing control/influence in his daughter's life.

I have a friend who is a youth pastor and his fiancee's mom has control issues. She decided three years ago that my friend was "the one" for her daughter. She felt it was from God. But he didn't date her daughter then. Then a year or more later they decided to date and her mom was against it. It was not God's will. She needs to respect her parents, etc. etc. There is a lot to this story it gets quite complex, but you can tell where this is going. The mom wanted to be in control of what her daughter did. Why, is a bigger question. I guess she feels (and probably your father in law feels) that she wants what is best for her daughter but doesn't know how to express it. She doesn't completely trust God with her child but wants to "hold on." This cannot happen. You are married now and your father and law should know that from a Biblical standpoint you are joined together, one, and have formed a new family.

Moving will be necessary to truly leave and cleave. As long as the in laws are in the area they will be a problem. There has to be a phase of separation before you can co-exist in the same city/area and be free. They need to know that just because you move a couple hours away that does not mean that you don't care about them, value their input, or respect them. You just need to be alone together for a while so that you can focus on being with your wife. AND it is a good opportunity.

The real issue with people who want control is TRUST. They are afraid to trust God that He will take care of you. It is really hard for them to see that just because it is a different choice than they would have made it can still be the right choice. Different, but not wrong.

You are the new family here, and you need to have a meeting of your own. Just the two of you. First of all, you and your wife need to come to agreement on being a new family, and with that comes the responsibility of making your own decisions between the two of you. Then you should sit down with your father in law and tell him that you have decided (together, assumg your wife wants to go) to move.

I don't know this exact situation, but I can predict what will follow if you do this based on similar situations. He will rant and rave, and when he sees that he is not changing your mind the real test comes. He will threaten and maybe even ostricise you from the family. But this is only temporary, He is doing anything in his power to maintain control and this is the "desperate measure" stage. After this comes the calm, but you have to hold on tight. It will get yucky. Eventually he will realize that if he wants you two as a part of his family he is going to have to let you guys make your own decisions. Then he will ease and the tension will fade. But it takes time, and you have to keep reassuring the parent that you still respect them and they are still important to you.

This is the shortest most simplified version I can give you here. I could have written more but I hate long posts and I am becoming guilty here....

 

[desi]

If I were you I'd take father in law out back and handle things man to man. He is meddling in your marriage where he has no business. If you are not as hot headed as me I would go to his church and ask the elders questions about when it is justifiable for a father inlaw to meddle in a marriage while giving specific examples. When his church elders start viewing him in this light he should back off or at least reach an understanding with you. You are the man here and he is wrong.

 

[ceres]

If I were you I'd take father in law out back and handle things man to man. He is meddling in your marriage where he has no business. If you are not as hot headed as me I would go to his church and ask the elders questions about when it is justifiable for a father inlaw to meddle in a marriage while giving specific examples. When his church elders start viewing him in this light he should back off or at least reach an understanding with you. You are the man here and he is wrong.

Whoa, chill out there man. I have the same frustrated feelings thinking about this situation, but REALLY that will not be productive.

 

[desi]

Whoa, chill out there man. I have the same frustrated feelings thinking about this situation, but REALLY that will not be productive.

How would it fail?

 

[ceres]

Desi,

Do you realize you could cause a church split this way? This is a horrible idea. You do not want to put dissension in the church. You should read "Well Intentioned Dragons by Marshall Shelley" it is a pretty good read.

 

[desi]

Desi,

Do you realize you could cause a church split this way? This is a horrible idea. You do not want to put dissension in the church. You should read "Well Intentioned Dragons by Marshall Shelley" it is a pretty good read.

No, I would put my marriage before the Church of an ungodly pastor. My marriage is the most important thing in my life, next to my salvation. I know my duties as a husband and take them seriously. My father inlaw and I are good friends and see eye to eye because he knows I take good care of his daughter and she is happy. If he took me on like this fellow's father inlaw is doing the gloves would be off. ceres, do you ever support man taking up the traditional role? It seems like every time I recommend men behaving as such you are against it.

 

[ceres]

No, I would put my marriage before the Church of an ungodly pastor. My marriage is the most important thing in my life, next to my salvation. I know my duties as a husband and take them seriously. My father inlaw and I are good friends and see eye to eye because he knows I take good care of his daughter and she is happy. If he took me on like this fellow's father inlaw is doing the gloves would be off. ceres, do you ever support man taking up the traditional role? It seems like every time I recommend men behaving as such you are against it.

Whoa, don't go calling people ungodly like that. You do not know all the facts. Just because he has trouble in one area does not mean he is not an honest man after God's own heart. Everyone has a trouble area or issue you can't go condemning people to hell who may be struggling with something. He may be an awesome pastor who really loves people, and yet struggles with trusting his son in law. No one is perfect, I do not understand why we expect pastors to be perfect.

As to traditional roles, I think I am for traditional roles. As long as we use our brain, and both the husband and the wife are comfortable with whatever role they decide for the woman (whether it be stay at home mom or a full time job). It is certainly ideal for a woman to at least stay home while her children are young at least. I certainly intend to do so.

However, what you suggested was that he go and fight his father in law. I cannot tell if you are seriously suggesting this or if it was made in jest, but it is surely a bad idea. Whatever happened to respect? Whatever happened to communication? Did you read my suggestion before you posted? What did you think about my thoughts?

 

[desi]

Whoa, don't go calling people ungodly like that. You do not know all the facts. Just because he has trouble in one area does not mean he is not an honest man after God's own heart. Everyone has a trouble area or issue you can't go condemning people to hell who may be struggling with something. He may be an awesome pastor who really loves people, and yet struggles with trusting his son in law. No one is perfect, I do not understand why we expect pastors to be perfect.

What if he had had a sexual relationship with a teenage girl? Would you want to keep that private too? If he behaves poorly he should be called on it. Especially if he is interfering in a marriage. Like I said, if it were me I would take no prisoners here. If he wants to meddle in my marriage he will reap the whirlwind.

As to traditional roles, I think I am for traditional roles. As long as we use our brain, and both the husband and the wife are comfortable with whatever role they decide for the woman (whether it be stay at home mom or a full time job). It is certainly ideal for a woman to at least stay home while her children are young at least. I certainly intend to do so.

I think traditional roles as defined in the Bible are there for us to know how we should behave. If we stray from such roles we have problems.

However, what you suggested was that he go and fight his father in law. I cannot tell if you are seriously suggesting this or if it was made in jest, but it is surely a bad idea. Whatever happened to respect? Whatever happened to communication? Did you read my suggestion before you posted? What did you think about my thoughts?

Respect left when his father in law started undermining his marriage. I read your post and thought you made things unnecessarily complicated and read into things. Your advice also depended on putting up with lots of nonsense. From my experience when someone messes with something you care about deeply the best way to handle it is not to try to protect what is getting messed with, the best way to handle it is to mess with what the meddler deeply values. To put it in the immortal words of Petra, "Hit you where you live!"

 

[ceres]

Sexual relationship with a teenage girl?? That is ENTIRELY different!
I can imagine what this advice could do to his relationship with his wife if he treats her family in such a fashion. But I do like what you said about reaping the whirlwind, you have very strong feelings and I like that.

Good. I agree. We have discussed this before though so I will not rehash what was already said.

The fact that you would involve parties not involved BEFORE it was proven necessary is unbiblical. I won't quote the scripture I am sure you know it, he needs to deal with it with the in laws directly first. Secondly, the fact that you would possibly cause a lot of people to "fall away" over this is ridiculous. Do you not see how this could happen?

 

[Peter]

This thread has taken quite a turn, let's see if we can bring it back around.

I certainly can feel for the poor young man. As a marriaed man of 17 years, I have had my fill of "my dad never" or "my dad would". And as much as we love our parents, it can be hard to let go. But it's time to start YOUR family.

Son, you married the girl. You are her spiritual head. If she is unwilling to follow you now, then there are some true problems.

True, when one marries, one gets in-laws. But you did not get a new head, you are the head of your family now. You don't have to ask your father-in-law for permission. You might ask for his advice, but not his permission.
The dude sounds like he has some real controll issues.

Take the job. Run, don't walk, to your new location. You can do this and not be in violation of honoring your in-laws.

Peace.

Peter

P.S. Is the dudes father-in-law still living. Did he ask his father-in-law for permission to treat you this way? What's good for the goose....

 

[Knight]

I agree that her dad needs to keep his nose out of your marriage, pastor or not. You're wife also needs to stop looking to him for spiritual leadership as that is now your job.

I am curious as to why he opposed you attending a Bible college. I assume it was some denominational docturnal thing but what was it specifically? It's fine if this is none of my business.

 

[joesloppy]

Thanks for all your comments concerning my present situation.

Yes, my wife, from what I have seen, still believes that the final decision should be made by her dad. Although its only in certain areas and not in others. And I bet you can guess which area that is, our church.

In any decision we make whether it be going out of town for the weekend and of course, missing church, or doing something on a church night that would involve missing church, or something greater such as moving away, that really involves missing out on his church, her typical response is, You need to talk to my dad. That echoes over and over again in my head and I can't seem to get her to realize that we are married now, we have our own relationship, our own Mind of Christ, our own Will.

I have since accepted this offer of course, everyone acted like HELL had taken over our lives, being critical and presenting fear and doubt the minute we told them(Her Family). My mom was fine, had a peace, but all her family could say is, YOUR LEAVING THE CHURCH??!!! Her sister started crying because the one thing that bothered her was that she would be leaving the church.

Her mother started crying and said this couldn't be of GOD, because it was such short notice to everyone, no-one suspected it or had the change to be told we wanted to move.

Her dad just stated how this wasn't Gods will and He knew GODs will for me and my wife, that knowing Gods will only comes with maturity and He is mature enough to know.

My wife was fine with everything before and after the fact. She only started to begin to question it when she disappeared from our house for two hours and then came back questioning our true purpose. GOD would never let someone leave the church over a job, was one of her arguments. GOD would never have us make such a rash decision; GOD would never pull us away from our ministry, etc...

So, just the other day, my wife and I were in full agreement, we knew that family would disagree, we knew that we would be labeled and called rebellious or we would be "walking away from GOD", getting out from the covering. We knew and still prayed and asked GOD to provide a way out of the control and bless us in another way. For over a month we earnestly sought GOD on this issue and I trusted my wife to be bold on that day when it came. Instead she, I would say, was asked this, Surely did GOD say???, What about this and this. Fear was given to her in the form of, YOU are leaving GOD. She was motivated and she honestly believes that NOW, after I accepted the offer, after we found a place, after we told everyone, including our employers that, SHE prayed wrongly, she shouldn't have asked for those things we agreed on. She realizes now what she wants, and actually that’s a bigger surprise all together.

Her dad told her and I that HE knew Gods will for our life, it was to go to South Africa, really, HE saw it. To with stain from having children and give GOD a year or two overseas. Its a great thing, yes, BUT GOD hasn't told me yet.

NOW my wife insists that this is the TRUE plan of GOD, to go to South Africa, and to wait before we have a family. She says that it must be GOD, because GOD told her dad so. I said, GOD never told me, yet anyway. So I told not to bring it up at church, I must let you know this also, that our church is Non-Denominational, and is only about 30-50 active members. Very small and very close, yes, those who leave are usually labeled rebellious and walking away from GOD, my wife and I knew this and knew it would happen to us.

But she has done a 180 on me; I need to get us into some course or study we can do at home concerning MARRIAGE, its purpose and situations that may come, and our roles in it.

I am afraid to say and do this, but I will not be accepting the offer, although I do see it as an answer. We prayed that the salary would be enough for her to stay at home so we could start a family, and it was, it was 50% more that what I get now. It would have helped us get out of debt far sooner and I would have been a powerful witness for CHRIST, I believe wherever I went.

I must decline the offer now, NOT because I believe GOD has shown me the errors of my way, NOT because I would have been stepping out of GODs will for my life, NOT because I would be running away from GOD, but I must not accept it, NOW, anyway, until my wife has grown and I also. SHE came to a point were she considered almost leaving me because is was to hard to "do something she knew was WRONG". That’s what she would tell me.

I don’t even know what happened to our marriage through this situation; I was blown away by how my wife turned on me and very hurt. I need counsel of course, we both do, BUT I believe the best way for that is not through her DAD, but through prayer of course and some type of study I can buy, we can do at home. Any recommendations are appreciated. I hate to close a door only GOD could have opened but I also realize that if I give up my desire right now for this, that a greater door will be waiting for me. I have to believe that, only because my marriage is so important, and I need to have patience in my wife learning her true role in OUR family now.

Even though I know what would have been alright for me to just go, I can't stand to see my wife hurt as much as she was. Only GOD knew my wife would react this way, and if was just because of "comments made" than GOD only knows what HE has to show my wife now through this. I do believe her eyes will be opened to the selfishness that was displayed by her family, by others in the church, or there hearts will be harden even greater to that fact that GOD was truly lining things up for us, even if it was for a season for my wife and I to grow and her to realize our roles in the marriage.

I must seek GOD now for another door of opportunity, for another chance for my wife to stay at home, to raise our children, another chance for my wife to accept my guidance and not be swayed by others beliefs. Another chance to relocate out of town, which goes a lot deeper than I don't like where I live. My bother murdered a lot of people here to say the least, and is serving a life sentence. There is always a remembrance and a thought of people not accepting you on this basis. I don’t use these as excuses to "get away". But feel time to leave. Our Pastor has left many churches in his time and even his family before he started his church out here where I am. For some reason, he don't believe the same for My wife and I, our place is under him, and him alone. Anything else is not of GOD.

I could go on for hours about what I have been through but I will end it here for now, I have told my wife we are not going and she is greatly relieved and thankful. She believes we are "doing the right thing". I did let her know that in GODs timing she would be shown something’s about this situation that she doesn't understand now. And it didn't have to be this hard at all.

 

[martinluther2003]

Going to one or some of the elders is a great idea. If their church splits over this it was a pretty darn weak church to begin with!

 

[Knight]

What kind of denomination is this???

I honestly want to know because it's sounding more suspicious by the minute.

 

[Techbot]

It's all been said here already but I'll add my 2 cents. RUN!!! Get as far away from your father in law as you can. Take the move, take the increased salary. You need to sit your wife down and find out what her definition of a marriage is. Not to be rude, but just to find out what she sees in your relationship.

 

[Peter]

I know this is not scripture, but C.S. Lewis had a good point in his book series "The Chronicles Of Narnia." In one epsiode, one of the children thinks she sees Aslan. Then she knows she sees him. No one else does. The one gives in to the many and they are soon in a bad state. Aslan had been calling to the one to follow. Her response later was, "Did you expect me to follow you alone and leave the others behind?" Aslan just looked at her and she realizes that this was indeed her path.

You must answer to the calling God has placed on you. If your wife doesnt follow, you must go. She has to choose her head. Staying allows her to have her father remain as her head with you as some other body part.

My advice is not without experience. I have been in a similar situation for the last three years. I made the move, my wife did not. She chose her father and mother and her friends over me.

The more you talk about this "church," the more it sounds like something else that starts with "c". And it sounds like your father-in-law has set himself up as Christ's Vicar on earth.

Get out!

Peace.

Peter