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Desmond Ford needs to be reinstated into the church with a full apology!

NightEternal

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Desmond Ford and Church Reconciliation


An open letter from Richard M. Davidson
To Whom It May Concern-Readers of the Document "Mapping the Past and Sketching the Future":
Recently I received a copy of the March 1, 2002, edited version of a report by the Membership and Relational Issues Committee of the Avondale College Church entitled "Mapping the Past and Sketching the Future." I was very surprised to see my name appearing in the document, along with allusions to my NNSW Camp Meeting presentations made in October 2001, and further allusions to the Adventist Theological Society. Especially disturbing to me was the carefully crafted language leaving the impression that Des Ford's views and mine are not that far apart. The report states "that several aspects of doctrine which Dr. Ford's critics classified as aberrations in the late 1970's/early 1980's were proclaimed with great acceptance at a recent camp meeting by a respected past-president of the Adventist Theological Society." (A later statement in the document specifically identifies me by name as the one making these presentations.) While acknowledging that "such observations do not imply concurrence in all matters," the remainder of the paragraph (and later portions of the document) nonetheless suggests both explicitly and in the general tenor of expression that my camp meeting presentations actually lend support to the move to reinstate Des Ford as a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

With this letter, I wish to strongly object to what I feel is a flagrant misuse of my name, misrepresentation of my theology, and the misconstruing of my camp meeting presentations to the exact opposite of what I intended. I want to make it clear that in my understanding Des Ford and I are light years apart on the most crucial issues of present truth within the Seventh-day Adventist Church. I do not support the move to reinstate Des Ford to church membership while he continues in his present belief system.

It is true that I believe in and enthusiastically preach the biblical doctrines of justification by faith and assurance of salvation. The Church has always had enlightened guidance on these subjects in the writings of Ellen White. I, along with others, have embraced these precious truths through earnest Bible study and prayer. Among the many sources which have contributed to my experiential understanding of the Gospel are included some of Des Ford's sermons from the early 1970's. But because both Des Ford and I believe in justification by faith (though with some significantly differing end results-see my attached document "The Good News of Yom Kippur"), this does not imply that the Seventh-day Adventist Church should now throw open its arms to Des for membership any more than we should throw open the Church for membership to Lutherans or Seventh-day Baptists or other evangelicals who teach this doctrine. Those who accept justification by faith, or even the Sabbath, do not thereby qualify for SDA membership. Seventh-day Adventists believe that the Gospel has an end-time setting of "present truth" concentrated in the Three Angels' Message of Revelation 14. At the heart of that present truth is our "reason for existence" centered in the sanctuary message: "The hour of His judgment has come." What makes this movement distinctive is the belief that since 1844 we are now living in the pre-Advent investigative judgment of professed believers conducted in the heavenly sanctuary, as indicated by Dan 8:14 and many kindred biblical passages. Ellen White indicated that this "correct understanding of the ministration in the heavenly sanctuary" constitutes "the foundation of our faith" (Ev 221 = Letter 208, 1906). This central pillar of Adventist identity and message to the world, Des Ford has rejected, and continues to reject. The concept of an investigative judgment of believers, the year-day principle, the exegesis of Dan 8:14 leading to the date 1844 and the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary, the historicist view of prophecy, the validity of arguing from the Old Testament sanctuary types to Christ's antitypical heavenly sanctuary ministry, the evidence from the books of Hebrews and Revelation for an end-time pre-Advent investigative judgment of God's professed people-these and many more foundational points in the Adventist sanctuary doctrine are denied by Des as unbiblical. Other aspects of Adventist doctrine are also rejected by Ford, but I will not go into these in this letter.

I have testified publicly of my former doubts regarding the sanctuary message, in the wake of reading Des Ford's 991-page Glacier View Manuscript in 1980. I was ready to leave the Seventh-day Adventist Church if this distinctive message was not biblical. I determined that if the Adventist sanctuary message could not stand the test of the closest investigation, if it was not solidly founded upon Scripture alone, I could not stay an Adventist. I thank God that my wrestling with the biblical data in the months and years following 1980 convinced me beyond question that the sanctuary doctrine was indeed biblical, and not only biblical, but Gospel! I've written up my personal experience with regard to the sanctuary doctrine in several articles, two of which I am attaching for your perusal ("In Confirmation of the Sanctuary Message" and "The Good News of Yom Kippur") if you wish to read more detail of my own pilgrimage and of the powerful biblical evidence for the truthfulness and relevance and gospel orientation of our sanctuary message.

Since I began teaching the Doctrine of the Sanctuary class at the SDA Theological Seminary here at Andrews University (now over 15 years), I regularly conduct a special prayer session in my class when we begin to deal with issues that surrounded Glacier View and Ford's manuscript and continued teaching. We kneel in a special intercessory prayer especially for Des, that God may yet reclaim him for the Adventist Church, to once again preach the Gospel in its end-time "present truth" setting of the sanctuary message. I have longed for, agonized in prayer for, reconciliation between Des Ford and the Adventist Church. I desire with all my heart to see him back as a member "in good and regular standing." BUT I AM CONVINCED THAT THE WAY OF RECONCILIATION IS NOT FOR US TO COMPROMISE THE CORE DISTINCTIVE OF ADVENTIST DOCTRINE! The way of reconciliation, in my opinion, is not to claim, as does the Report from Avondale College Church, that the situation "is not so much a doctrinal issue as a relational one." I cannot speak to the relational issues, since I was not present at Glacier View nor in Australia in its aftermath. But I can speak to the doctrinal issue-and I find this to be foundational. At heart is the question of what it means to be an Adventist. Look at all the other Fundamental Beliefs of SDA's-these are shared with other Christian denominations, including the Great Controversy (see the new book by Gregory Boyd), Sabbath, state of the dead, gift of prophecy, footwashing, tithing, etc. But Fundamental Belief #23 "Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary," involving the work of investigative judgment which began in 1844, is the one distinctive doctrine which sets us apart from all other churches, and constitutes the special Gospel-centered "present truth" entrusted to our Movement to preach. It is also one of the "old landmarks" which Ellen White was shown to be central and non-negotiable, to Adventism (see 1SM 160-162 = Letter 329, 1905).

In my October 2001 camp meeting presentations, I sought to uphold the Gospel, and show the beauty and joy of the sanctuary message, but my overall goal was to show that the sanctuary message as affirmed by Seventh-day Adventists is in harmony with the Gospel, and is solidly supported in Scripture. Those who listen to my presentations will hear my personal testimony, and the setting forth of biblical evidence upon evidence that the points regarding the SDA sanctuary message denied by Des Ford are fully grounded in Scripture. True, I did not mention Des Ford by name, inasmuch as I wished the presentations to be Bible-centered and issue-centered, not personality-centered. But none who have followed the debate since 1980 can miss the underlying thread in my entire series, seeking to show the truthfulness and continued relevance of the SDA sanctuary message as opposed to those who have rejected it as unbiblical.

I still pray often that Des Ford and the SDA Church can be reconciled. I challenge SDA leaders and lay members in Australia and beyond to join me even more earnestly and agonizingly in that prayer. What might happen if a whole continent, yea a whole denomination, were interceding the Almighty for the reclaiming of Des! But let not that reconciliation be achieved by ignoring or minimizing the deep doctrinal divide that now separates us. Let us rather pray for heavenly eye salve to anoint Des's eyes, for humbleness of heart and a teachable spirit that he may be willing to see and accept the biblical evidence on the sanctuary, prophecy, and other kindred aspects of "present truth" without prejudice. Let us also pray for the spirit of Daniel (in his prayer of Daniel 9) in all of us that we may identify and empathize with those in error even though we may not have been personally at fault. Let us pray for repentance if there are any wrongs to confess on the part of the Church in dealing with Des (I wasn't there and don't know if such repentance is needed or not). Let us pray for the power of the sanctuary message-seen in its gospel beauty-to revitalize a whole continent and our whole Church as never before.

The Adventist Theological Society, also mentioned in the Avondale Report, has as its primary goal to uplift such neglected and maligned biblical truths as the sanctuary doctrine. As a past-president of ATS, I can attest to the centrist stance of the Society, and its supportive mission within the Church to present and foster solid, balanced Bible-based scholarship that upholds and deepens our appreciation of the 27 Fundamental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. I'm confident that the local chapter of ATS will continue to be constructive in providing support for the SDA Church in Australia and for the doctrinal beliefs of our Church. Our new (as of next month) President of ATS International, Jiri Moskala, has recently fulfilled Conference-initiated speaking appointments in the Australian Union, and has a strong desire to maintain and even enhance the supportive role of the Society in harmony with church leadership in the South Pacific Division.

I trust that this letter serves to set straight any confusion caused by the use of my name, my NNSW Camp Meeting presentations, and the Adventist Theological Society, in the Avondale College Church Report. I do not wish to intrude upon the internal procedures of the local Avondale College Church, nor of the wider Adventist community, in their dealing with Des Ford. But I feel it is imperative that readers of the Report are not misled by references to me, my camp meeting series, and ATS, to think that I or ATS support a move to reinstate Des Ford into membership in the SDA Church while he continues to reject central distinctive Adventist doctrine. Such a move I do not support. I would only support Des Ford's reinstatement into SDA Church membership if he once again embraces the "present truth" that distinguishes this Church from other denominations. And for that change of heart on the part of my brother Des, I earnestly pray! I also pray for the SDA community in Australia and beyond, that we continue to reach out to Des, loving him, interceding for him, laying hold of the Arm of Omnipotence on his behalf, calling him back to the old landmarks that stand more solid than ever!

I request that this letter in its entirety be made available to those who have received the document "Mapping the Past and Sketching the Future," that they might have an accurate understanding of my position and that of ATS, in light of the references in the Report. I will be happy to provide any additional information that may be requested to clarify other points involving myself, my camp meeting presentations, or the positions of ATS, in the ongoing process outlined in the Avondale College Church Report. May God's hand guide this process and may His will be done.

Cordially in Christ,

Richard M. Davidson
Professor of Old Testament Interpretation and Chair,
Old Testament Department, SDA Theological Seminary
Andrews University

So this basically proves my point. Davidson's message to Des is basically 'recant or continue to be exiled from membership' (declared anathema, same thing.)

This statement by Davidson should put to rest any false claims that Des has not been denied membership in the church on an unofficial level.

He most certainly has.
 
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honorthesabbath

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Since I began teaching the Doctrine of the Sanctuary class at the SDA Theological Seminary here at Andrews University (now over 15 years), I regularly conduct a special prayer session in my class when we begin to deal with issues that surrounded Glacier View and Ford's manuscript and continued teaching. We kneel in a special intercessory prayer especially for Des, that God may yet reclaim him for the Adventist Church, to once again preach the Gospel in its end-time "present truth" setting of the sanctuary message. I have longed for, agonized in prayer for, reconciliation between Des Ford and the Adventist Church. I desire with all my heart to see him back as a member "in good and regular standing." BUT I AM CONVINCED THAT THE WAY OF RECONCILIATION IS NOT FOR US TO COMPROMISE THE CORE DISTINCTIVE OF ADVENTIST DOCTRINE! The way of reconciliation, in my opinion, is not to claim, as does the Report from Avondale College Church, that the situation "is not so much a doctrinal issue as a relational one." I cannot speak to the relational issues, since I was not present at Glacier View nor in Australia in its aftermath. But I can speak to the doctrinal issue-and I find this to be foundational. At heart is the question of what it means to be an Adventist. Look at all the other Fundamental Beliefs of SDA's-these are shared with other Christian denominations, including the Great Controversy (see the new book by Gregory Boyd), Sabbath, state of the dead, gift of prophecy, footwashing, tithing, etc. But Fundamental Belief #23 "Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary," involving the work of investigative judgment which began in 1844, is the one distinctive doctrine which sets us apart from all other churches, and constitutes the special Gospel-centered "present truth" entrusted to our Movement to preach. It is also one of the "old landmarks" which Ellen White was shown to be central and non-negotiable, to Adventism (see 1SM 160-162 = Letter 329, 1905).

Night--reread this--this is why DF has been disfellowshipped--wake up man!! Your savage bias has totally poisoned your reasoning on this matter. If a Democrat or Republican totally removes himself from that parties FUNDAMENTAL premise--then he relinguishes his membership. What part of this fact can you not phathom? One wonders why you or Ford would even want to retain the name of 7th Day Adventist while hating everything this church stands for.

BTW--I resent your continual name-calling and bashing of us who do support our TRADITIONAL status.
 
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NightEternal

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Since I began teaching the Doctrine of the Sanctuary class at the SDA Theological Seminary here at Andrews University (now over 15 years), I regularly conduct a special prayer session in my class when we begin to deal with issues that surrounded Glacier View and Ford's manuscript and continued teaching. We kneel in a special intercessory prayer especially for Des, that God may yet reclaim him for the Adventist Church, to once again preach the Gospel in its end-time "present truth" setting of the sanctuary message. I have longed for, agonized in prayer for, reconciliation between Des Ford and the Adventist Church. I desire with all my heart to see him back as a member "in good and regular standing." BUT I AM CONVINCED THAT THE WAY OF RECONCILIATION IS NOT FOR US TO COMPROMISE THE CORE DISTINCTIVE OF ADVENTIST DOCTRINE! The way of reconciliation, in my opinion, is not to claim, as does the Report from Avondale College Church, that the situation "is not so much a doctrinal issue as a relational one." I cannot speak to the relational issues, since I was not present at Glacier View nor in Australia in its aftermath. But I can speak to the doctrinal issue-and I find this to be foundational. At heart is the question of what it means to be an Adventist. Look at all the other Fundamental Beliefs of SDA's-these are shared with other Christian denominations, including the Great Controversy (see the new book by Gregory Boyd), Sabbath, state of the dead, gift of prophecy, footwashing, tithing, etc. But Fundamental Belief #23 "Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary," involving the work of investigative judgment which began in 1844, is the one distinctive doctrine which sets us apart from all other churches, and constitutes the special Gospel-centered "present truth" entrusted to our Movement to preach. It is also one of the "old landmarks" which Ellen White was shown to be central and non-negotiable, to Adventism (see 1SM 160-162 = Letter 329, 1905).

There it is. Based on EGW's endorsement of Edson's cornfield vision. Not to be tampered with or changed in any way. And we are supposed to believe that Glacierview was an honest search for the truth? Please.

Crosier himself even repudiated this doctrine and he was there in the cornfield with Edson.

Night--reread this--this is why DF has been disfellowshipped--wake up man!!

Someone needs to wake up all right, but it is not me.

Your savage bias has totally poisoned your reasoning on this matter. If a Democrat or Republican totally removes himself from that parties FUNDAMENTAL premise--then he relinguishes his membership.

If your Adventist bona fides rest and fall on the credibility of one single doctrine, I pity you. My Adventism is much larger than that, I can assure you.

The IJ is not Adventism. No one single doctrine is.

Why this ever-burning obssession to be 'different' and 'unique' from other churches I will never know.

I suppose Christ is not enough for SDA status I guess.

What part of this fact can you not phathom? One wonders why you or Ford would even want to retain the name of 7th Day Adventist while hating everything this church stands for.

Emotionally charged nonsense. I have never claimed to hate everything the church stands for. Stop misrepresenting me already. It's getting old.

BTW--I resent your continual name-calling and bashing of us who do support our TRADITIONAL status.

Please point to any recent posts where I have bashed people rather than thier ideas and I will remedy the situation.
_______________________________________________
 
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Adventist Heretic

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Since I began teaching the Doctrine of the Sanctuary class at the SDA Theological Seminary here at Andrews University (now over 15 years), I regularly conduct a special prayer session in my class when we begin to deal with issues that surrounded Glacier View and Ford's manuscript and continued teaching. We kneel in a special intercessory prayer especially for Des, that God may yet reclaim him for the Adventist Church, to once again preach the Gospel in its end-time "present truth" setting of the sanctuary message. I have longed for, agonized in prayer for, reconciliation between Des Ford and the Adventist Church. I desire with all my heart to see him back as a member "in good and regular standing." BUT I AM CONVINCED THAT THE WAY OF RECONCILIATION IS NOT FOR US TO COMPROMISE THE CORE DISTINCTIVE OF ADVENTIST DOCTRINE! The way of reconciliation, in my opinion, is not to claim, as does the Report from Avondale College Church, that the situation "is not so much a doctrinal issue as a relational one." I cannot speak to the relational issues, since I was not present at Glacier View nor in Australia in its aftermath. But I can speak to the doctrinal issue-and I find this to be foundational. At heart is the question of what it means to be an Adventist. Look at all the other Fundamental Beliefs of SDA's-these are shared with other Christian denominations, including the Great Controversy (see the new book by Gregory Boyd), Sabbath, state of the dead, gift of prophecy, footwashing, tithing, etc. But Fundamental Belief #23 "Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary," involving the work of investigative judgment which began in 1844, is the one distinctive doctrine which sets us apart from all other churches, and constitutes the special Gospel-centered "present truth" entrusted to our Movement to preach. It is also one of the "old landmarks" which Ellen White was shown to be central and non-negotiable, to Adventism (see 1SM 160-162 = Letter 329, 1905).

Night--reread this--this is why DF has been disfellowshipped--wake up man!! Your savage bias has totally poisoned your reasoning on this matter. If a Democrat or Republican totally removes himself from that parties FUNDAMENTAL premise--then he relinguishes his membership. What part of this fact can you not phathom? One wonders why you or Ford would even want to retain the name of 7th Day Adventist while hating everything this church stands for.

BTW--I resent your continual name-calling and bashing of us who do support our TRADITIONAL status.

did you say you were a seminary professor. we have an expert here? woah. can you back that up. if you can then I have some questions for you about the sancturary
 
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Sophia7

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Night--reread this--this is why DF has been disfellowshipped--wake up man!!

Once again, Desmond Ford was not disfellowshipped (and Davidson's statement is misleading on this). From my earlier post:

Sophia7 said:
Actually, Desmond Ford was still a member of the Adventist Church until a few years ago. His ministerial credentials were revoked after Glacier View, but he did not drop his membership at that time. He retired from Good News Unlimited in 2000, and he withdrew his membership from the SDA Church shortly afterward in order to try to get a teaching position at a Baptist seminary (which ultimately turned him down because of his Sabbatarian beliefs). Here is a quote from Ron Allen of Good News Unlimited:
Desmond Ford is not a member of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. He resigned his membership soon after he retired because he was trying to get a part time position at a Baptist Seminary in Australia, and he resigned to smooth his way through Baptist political processes. I can tell you that there is no offer on the table from the denominations leaders, to reinstate Des. There have been some approaches made to the brethren by his friends (not at his request) but with no result.​
 
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Sophia7

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did you say you were a seminary professor. we have an expert here? woah. can you back that up. if you can then I have some questions for you about the sancturary

She was quoting from Richard Davidson, who is a Seminary professor.
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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What is interesting is that Ford has become persona non graita by the General Conference. A good example is the following:

ADVENTIST TODAY HOSTS DR. DESMOND FORD PRESENTATIONS ON THE GOSPEL IN MONTEREY, CALIFORNIA

Adventist Today is honored to sponsor a series of presentations by Dr. Desmond Ford, on New Year’s weekend, Friday, December 30 and Saturday, December 31, 2005, from 2 p.m. to 4:30 p.m., at the Hyatt Regency Monterey and Conference Center in Monterey, California.
Dr. Ford will be making four presentations including “Listening to the Grapevine: Gospel Not Gossip,” “How to Do the Impossible,” “Passion Week: Pattern of the End the World?,” and “Pilgrimage: Before Glacier View.” These presentations were originally to have been given at the Spiritual Renaissance Retreat. Now they will be offered in special meetings hosted by Adventist Today. Following these presentations, there will be ample opportunities for questions and dialogue. For those unable to attend, recordings will be available. Please contact Adventist Today at atoday(AT)atoday.com or 800-236-3641 to order copies of these tapes.
The General Conference made a pretty big stink about Ford being at the conference so Ford's sponsership was taken by Adventist Today and they booked a seperate room for the sessions by Ford.

ADVENTIST CHURCH AUTHORITIES FORBID DR. DESMOND FORD’S PARTICIPATION IN SPIRITUAL RENAISSANCE RETREAT

ALTERNATE VENUE ARRANGED
Adventist Today announces that Dr. Desmond Ford will not speak at the 12th annual Spiritual Renaissance Retreat (SRR) in Monterey, California. This development is not due to the wishes of Dr. Ford or Adventist Today but due to instructions delivered by Adventist church authorities to the SRR organizer who is an Adventist pastor.

However, in a nearby venue, Dr. Ford will make the presentations he would have made at the SRR and be involved in a panel discussion that will reflect on his faith journey over the last 25 years since Glacier View. His lectures and question and answer periods will be hosted by Adventist Today at a location in the Monterey area at times that do not conflict with the scheduled meetings of the SRR.
Adventist Today strongly believes in the open and free discussion of the serious theological, intellectual, and political issues facing the Seventh-day Adventist Church today. The church authorities opposed to the participation of Dr. Ford in the SRR oppose such discussion in this setting and have exercised their power to prevent it.

It is because of the respect Adventist Today has for the SRR organizer and our wish that the SRR continue to flourish that we are not at this time publishing a full explanation of these events. However, at a later time, Adventist Today expects to report on the politics and personalities behind this decision.

We hope that all interested in hearing Dr. Ford’s presentations will also participate in the SRR. The conversation should be interesting, to say the least. The full Retreat program will be conducted as announced except that Dr. Ford will not make any presentations at the SRR. However, he will speak and respond to questions in a nearby venue at times that do not conflict with SRR activities.
 
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NightEternal

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Once again, Desmond Ford was not disfellowshipped (and Davidson's statement is misleading on this). From my earlier post:

I have maintained from the start that Ford was never officially removed from church membership, just axed as a minister.

It appears that he merely made official what was unofficially happening for years.

God bless you Dr. Ford. May your future endeavors be succesful and may the SDA church someday realize what a fine champion of the Gospel they have discarded.
 
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Since I began teaching the Doctrine of the Sanctuary class at the SDA Theological Seminary here at Andrews University (now over 15 years),
I regularly conduct a special prayer session in my class when we begin to deal with issues that surrounded Glacier View and Ford's manuscript and continued teaching. We kneel in a special intercessory prayer especially for Des, that God may yet reclaim him for the Adventist Church, to once again preach the Gospel in its end-time "present truth" setting of the sanctuary message. I have longed for, agonized in prayer for, reconciliation between Des Ford and the Adventist Church. I desire with all my heart to see him back as a member "in good and regular standing."
don't you think that is just a bit condecesding. you think that your prayers are going to change his mind and that He should come back. That assumes that you are right and he is wrong. it also assumes that you are following God's plan. it assumes God is with you. That is to many assumptions. God says to "be ready in season and out of season" to give an answer for the hope that is with in you.

As if yet no answer has come. I have read parts of the DAR CON report and it is aweful and hard to follow and intentionally confusing. I have heard the argument for and against the investigative judgement and the 2300 days, and i tell you des has a strong case that has yet to be answered.


But I can speak to the doctrinal issue-and I find this to be foundational. At heart is the question of what it means to be an Adventist. Look at all the other Fundamental Beliefs of SDA's-these are shared with other Christian denominations,
you have it it on the head it is doctrianl and will not be solved by prayer and des reprenting. It will be solved with clear biblical expsition. which as of yet has not been done.

. But Fundamental Belief #23 "Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary," involving the work of investigative judgment which began in 1844, is the one distinctive doctrine which sets us apart from all other churches, and constitutes the special Gospel-centered "present truth" entrusted to our Movement to preach. It is also one of the "old landmarks" which Ellen White was shown to be central and non-negotiable, to Adventism (see 1SM 160-162 = Letter 329, 1905).
this is true, it is a land mark and a disctive, but it is not true. No where does the scripture say that at the end of th 2300 days does the Jesus enter into the most holy place and beging reviewing the records. I would like you to show me that. Please.
Night--reread this--this is why DF has been disfellowshipped--wake up man!! Your savage bias has totally poisoned your reasoning on this matter. If a Democrat or Republican totally removes himself from that parties FUNDAMENTAL premise--then he relinguishes his membership. What part of this fact can you not phathom? One wonders why you or Ford would even want to retain the name of 7th Day Adventist while hating everything this church stands for
. this is the ALL or Nothing postion. not acceptable. The Sabbath state of the dead and the second coming are good, but the 2300 days and the IJ, garbage. The only reason we cannot drop the 2300 days is, to do so would be to admit that Ellen is a false prophet. That is all.

BTW--I resent your continual name-calling and bashing of us who do support our TRADITIONAL status.[
i believe it is the other way around. BTW do you even know what the issues are with 2300 day and the investigative Judgement?
 
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NightEternal

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Night-it sure is convinient for you to bash EGW when you disagree with her--and yet, you quote has as 'authorative' when it suits you, as in the thread about the 'nature of Christ'. I see your character and I have no more desire to read your silly posts or listen to your mindless rantings. I'm finished with you.

Well, it sure is nice to once again see the issues be avoided and the personal attacks favored.

BTW, I have never maintained that EGW had no authourity at all. Just not doctrinal. There is a big difference. Yes, she had some good things to say about Christ's sinless nature and I agree with her on the ones that were posted. She also said many things supporting that He had a fallen nature as well. I have the quotes on file.

So it's obvious she grew in her understanding in that area as well.

You still continue to charge me with personally 'bashing' EGW, yet there has still not been any proof provided that I have ever done this.

That is blatant false witness bearing.
 
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Ah ICE--I didn't write this article--I just posted it for reference sake.

But I DO believe that Ford is totally wrong--period!
care to explain why.? what is it about his theology you disagre with? that seems to be an avoidence
 
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Honor the Sabbath

Since you teach at the Seminary and are the Sanctuary teacher you must be one of the best in the denomination. they just don't give those postions away.

could you answer me some questions?
According to SDA Sanctuary Theology. the confessed sins of the saint are transfered to the sanctruary and a record is left there to be reviewed and removed on the Day of Atonement. that removal process started in 1844 at the end of the 2300 days. am I right so far?
 
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honorthesabbath

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care to explain why.? what is it about his theology you disagre with? that seems to be an avoidence
ICE--For Ford to be on the payroll of a demonination and then teach contrary to that demoninations beliefs is flat wrong. To be specific--the IJ. And fromn what I can by those who follow Ford--it's very obvious where that doctrines takes people--straight to hell!
 
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