Delaying the MMR vaccine...?

[gracepaints]

Can you legally delay vaccines? This whole issue is so confusing to me.

Yes, vaccines are not required just because you have children. In most states, they are required if you want to send your kids to public schools or daycares, though in all but two you can apply for a waiver (religious or otherwise.) They are not required if you homeschool or if you send your child to a private school who chooses not to have a vaccination requirement. The only two states that do not offer waivers are Mississippi and West Virginia.

Vaccines, generally speaking, only protect groups of children from epidemics. The immunity conferred by vaxes are simply not reliable and long lasting enough to be considered adequate protection during adulthood unless you get a booster. So, in other words, if you are an adult and haven't had a titer and booster lately, you have no guarantee that you are any "safer" for the public than an unvaccinated child.

BTW Did you know that one of the things they run on ALL WOMEN during their first prenatal visit is a blood panel that among other things checks their Rubella immunity? Just found this out recently.

 

[Meshavrischika]

The main benefit of the chickenpox vaccine to individuals is long-lasting immunity to chickenpox. The chickenpox vaccine lasts so long that a booster dose has not yet been recommended, although it probably will be at some time in the future. To date, those who have received the vaccine have a much lower incidence of shingles than those who actually had chickenpox over the same time period. Those who receive the vaccine also have a dramatically decreased risk of scarring. Finally, studies so far have found the chickenpox vaccine to be highly effective in preventing moderate and severe chickenpox in children
A few vaccines, like the one for measles or the series for hepatitis B, may make you immune for your entire life. Others, like tetanus, last for many years but require periodic shots (boosters) for continued protection against the disease.
The whooping cough (pertussis) vaccine also does not give lifelong immunity, and that may be one reason why there are still outbreaks of the disease. And although pertussis isn't a serious problem for older kids and adults, it can be for infants and young children. Because of this, adolescents and adults now receive a pertussis booster along with the tetanus and diphtheria booster (Tdap) — an important step in controlling this infection.
(Redbook: Report of the Committee on Infectious Diseases, 2000).

 

[gracepaints]

They are now recommending a Chickenpox booster at 5 years old - just four years after the orginal vax is given.

 

[Meshavrischika]

They are now recommending a Chickenpox booster at 5 years old - just four years after the orginal vax is given.

but all vaccs require initial boosters. that's the way they work. that's not a new development. one shot does not cut it.

 

[charligirl]

I read an article only yesterday in the paper which shows the results of a new study of 250 children with MMR vacc(The first one which caused all the hoo ha was only 12 children) THey said the link to autism has been disproved. But who knows what to believe?

I just prayed over Kate and went for it at 15 months when it is administered here. She had Chicken Pox at 7 months as I 'let' her get it..not sure I would do that again at that young age, but i was breastfeeding and was told it would only be mild - she had over 200 spots and was too young for piriton. Still, I would not have got her vaccinated, woudl rather she got it naturally.

 

[Leanna]

The main benefit of the chickenpox vaccine to individuals is long-lasting immunity to chickenpox. The chickenpox vaccine lasts so long that a booster dose has not yet been recommended, although it probably will be at some time in the future. To date, those who have received the vaccine have a much lower incidence of shingles than those who actually had chickenpox over the same time period. Those who receive the vaccine also have a dramatically decreased risk of scarring. Finally, studies so far have found the chickenpox vaccine to be highly effective in preventing moderate and severe chickenpox in children
A few vaccines, like the one for measles or the series for hepatitis B, may make you immune for your entire life. Others, like tetanus, last for many years but require periodic shots (boosters) for continued protection against the disease.
The whooping cough (pertussis) vaccine also does not give lifelong immunity, and that may be one reason why there are still outbreaks of the disease. And although pertussis isn't a serious problem for older kids and adults, it can be for infants and young children. Because of this, adolescents and adults now receive a pertussis booster along with the tetanus and diphtheria booster (Tdap) — an important step in controlling this infection.
(Redbook: Report of the Committee on Infectious Diseases, 2000).

Do you have a link to a longitudal study that shows that its lifelong immunity? According to the CDC pink book it was licensed for usage in the US in 1995 which means they have 12 years of evidence so far. In Japan since 1988.... still a far cry from being able to claim lifelong immunity. Sometimes they make claims and later change them, and I haven't seen any studies on this but it would definitely interest me. So far in my reading I have determined one important and disturbing fact-- before licensing them for general usage, they barely study the darn things..... its disturbing.

but all vaccs require initial boosters. that's the way they work. that's not a new development. one shot does not cut it.

According to the CDC pink book, 97% of children receive antibodies against chicken pox after one dose. So .... second dose required.... as I said in my original post, how convenient for the vaccine manufacturers' pockets that most are unaware of how unnecessary vaccinating each child over and over and over again is....

 

[Meshavrischika]

According to the CDC pink book, 97% of children receive antibodies against chicken pox after one dose. So .... second dose required.... as I said in my original post, how convenient for the vaccine manufacturers' pockets that most are unaware of how unnecessary vaccinating each child over and over and over again is....
or possibly "let's insure that everyone is immune before dropping the ball to be cheap".
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/120/1/221
if the reduction in varicella related deaths in 1-4 year olds isn't enough to warrant this vaccination, I don't know what is.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/356/11/1121
and there is a much higher immunization failure rate with only one innoculation
http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/news/review/medrev_v6n1_0001.html
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]It was the serious nature of varicella in children with underlying leukemia that led to initial testing of the varicella vaccine in the United States in the late 1970s.12 At that time about 80% of children with leukemia survived their primary disease, but 10% of those who developed varicella died of chickenpox. To try to protect these children from severe chickenpox, clinical trials with varicella vaccine were begun in the United States. The largest study was carried out by the Varicella Vaccine Collaborative Study Group.19-21 Over a decade, this Collaborative Study Group immunized approximately 600 children with leukemia in remission, most of whom were still receiving maintenance chemotherapy. Adverse effects of vaccination were rarely severe even in these very high risk children, and these could be treated if necessary with the antiviral drug acyclovir (ACV). None of the vaccinated leukemic children died from varicella vaccine, or chickenpox, and its complications. Only about 15% developed chickenpox, even after being exposed to an unvaccinated brother or sister with the illness.19-21 Due to the apparent success of varicella vaccine in children with leukemia, clinical trials were begun in healthy children in the mid-1980s, in the hope of preventing chickenpox. As an added benefit of vaccination, it was found that vaccinated leukemic children were actually protected from zoster as well as from varicella.22 The incidence of zoster was estimated to be seven times less frequent in leukemic children who were vaccinated compared to those who experienced natural varicella. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]During the early years of study of varicella vaccine in the United States, adults who had not had varicella were also vaccinated.23,24 Interestingly, these adults were usually protected from severe varicella as were the leukemic children, but they also required two doses of vaccine given four to eight weeks apart and they were less well protected than children.21 It has recently been shown that the primary cell-mediated immune response to VZV is lower in adults than in children.25 This probably accounts for the less robust overall clinical response of adults to varicella vaccine compared to children, and it may also explain the propensity of adults to develop severe varicella. [/FONT]

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/varicella/vac-faqs-gen.htm

How long does the vaccine protect someone against chickenpox? Will a booster vaccination be needed?

The length of protection/immunity from any new vaccine is never known when it is first introduced. However, available information collected from persons vaccinated in Japan in the United States show that protection has lasted for as long as the vaccinated persons have been followed (25 years in Japan and more than 10 years in the U.S.). Follow-up studies are ongoing to determine how long protection will last and to evaluate the need and timing for booster vaccination. If it is determined in the future that a booster dose is necessary, your health-care provider will inform you. Currently, no booster dose is recommended beyond the recently recommended two-dose vaccination series.

 

[Leanna]

According to the CDC pink book, 97% of children receive antibodies against chicken pox after one dose. So .... second dose required.... as I said in my original post, how convenient for the vaccine manufacturers' pockets that most are unaware of how unnecessary vaccinating each child over and over and over again is....
or possibly "let's insure that everyone is immune before dropping the ball to be cheap".

The smart thing to do rather in inject more aluminum and crap into our baby's blood streams would be to check titers (antibody levels) before doing 3-4 boosters of each vaccine, which overall would save money.... but they choose not to do that....

 

[Meshavrischika]

The smart thing to do rather in inject more aluminum and crap into our baby's blood streams would be to check titers (antibody levels) before doing 3-4 boosters of each vaccine, which overall would save money.... but they choose not to do that....

it's cheaper to vaccinate two times than it is to pay for the hospitalization and health costs associated with this disease before we started vaccinating. and it's likely cheaper than checking titers.

 

[TexasSky]

I agree, but that was my point. Since the chicken pox vaccine is temporary and does not provide lifelong immunity, and on the whole adults do not get booster vaccines (there was even a recent article in Time magazine on this subject), it seems a lot riskier to have a child that had the vaccine than a child that had the chicken pox-- so long as its a strong enough case to develop lifelong immunity, which I hope I had!!

If I had the vaccine as a child (wasn't invented, but in theory) then I would be even more nervous about our exposure to chicken pox while I am pregnant because I wouldn't have any immunity anymore.

Ah,

Thank you.
They didn't offer that vaccine until after both my kids got the chicken pox, so I don't know a lot about it.

Why vaccinate if it isn't lifelong? Getting it is lifelong immunity.

I am talking, specifically, about chickenpox.
I do support most vaccines.

 

[Meshavrischika]

Ah,

Thank you.
They didn't offer that vaccine until after both my kids got the chicken pox, so I don't know a lot about it.

Why vaccinate if it isn't lifelong? Getting it is lifelong immunity.

However, available information collected from persons vaccinated in Japan in the United States show that protection has lasted for as long as the vaccinated persons have been followed (25 years in Japan and more than 10 years in the U.S.).

 

[TexasSky]

it's cheaper to vaccinate two times than it is to pay for the hospitalization and health costs associated with this disease before we started vaccinating. and it's likely cheaper than checking titers.

There were no hospitalization issues with my kids.
They got it. I put certain suggested anti-itch meds on them, and they got better. It was more like a bad cold than anything serious.

 

[Leanna]

it's cheaper to vaccinate two times than it is to pay for the hospitalization and health costs associated with this disease before we started vaccinating. and it's likely cheaper than checking titers.

I am surprised we see so differently on this part.... because to me one dose with a 97% effective rate is excellent!

 

[Surrender2Win]

Thanks for all your feedback.

My spirit is very uneasy about this shot and so perhaps it would be best to not get it for now.

The problem is, I'm not very assertive ...maybe I can call the ped and talk to him over the phone or set up a meeting to talk about it. If I go in and talk about it when I'm supposed to be getting the shot, I'm afraid we'll walk out having had the shot. :o

 

[Meshavrischika]

There were no hospitalization issues with my kids.
They got it. I put certain suggested anti-itch meds on them, and they got better. It was more like a bad cold than anything serious.

Results From the prevaccination period to 2002, hospitalizations due to varicella declined by 88% (from 2.3 to 0.3 per 100 000 population) and ambulatory visits declined by 59% (from 215 to 89 per 100 000 population). Hospitalizations and ambulatory visits declined in all age groups, with the greatest declines among infants younger than 1 year. Total estimated direct medical expenditures for varicella hospitalizations and ambulatory visits declined by 74%, from an average of $84.9 million in 1994 and 1995 to $22.1 million in 2002.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/294/7/797

not your kid necessarily, but people in general

 

[Meshavrischika]

I am surprised we see so differently on this part.... because to me one dose with a 97% effective rate is excellent!

97% is great, but I think if someone is going to only do one, they may be doing their child a disservice. Most insurance won't pay out of their pocket for titers (I had to pay for my test) and therefore, because it is left to the government to fund (anyone who cannot afford immunization is given immunization for free) then the least expensive route should be taken. By all means, test titers... but don't just do without. Unless the person has the money to pay, don't recommend just one vaccination to everyone as a blanket recommendation, especially those who cannot pay. That's all.

 

[Leanna]

97% is great, but I think if someone is going to only do one, they may be doing their child a disservice. Most insurance won't pay out of their pocket for titers (I had to pay for my test) and therefore, because it is left to the government to fund (anyone who cannot afford immunization is given immunization for free) then the least expensive route should be taken.

See and that's the problem-- the insurances *should* pay for titers..... then they wouldn't have to pay for 3-4 doses of each vaccine.... the cost would be lower to the insurance companies anyway. Things don't start becoming covered by insurance until people start having a "demand" for them.

 

[Meshavrischika]

See and that's the problem-- the insurances *should* pay for titers..... then they wouldn't have to pay for 3-4 doses of each vaccine.... the cost would be lower to the insurance companies anyway. Things don't start becoming covered by insurance until people start having a "demand" for them.

the *should* is not the place for the government to regulate as insurance is a private business. (see my elephant ears sticking out yet)... and not everyone has insurance.

 

[Leanna]

the *should* is not the place for the government to regulate as insurance is a private business. (see my elephant ears sticking out yet)... and not everyone has insurance.

As I said, "Things don't start becoming covered by insurance until people start having a "demand" for them."

Soooo.... what are you talking about?

 

[Meshavrischika]

As I said, "Things don't start becoming covered by insurance until people start having a "demand" for them."

Soooo.... what are you talking about?

if it doesn't make the insurance company money (i.e. they will be spending more than making on a given service) they won't offer it.... no matter the demand.