defining virginity

[naivelytrusting]

this is a tough one to start off with right away, but it's something some of my friends and I have been going back and forth on for a while so I want to get some other perspectives. half of us believe that virginity means total abstinence, like no sexual behavior whatsoever.....not kissing and stuff, but things like oral sex and what our teacher's always liked to call "heavy petting." the other half of us believe that as long as you don't actually engage in intercourse, you are still a virgin. I'm up in the air about this one. I really just don't know.

 

[InTheFlame]

There's no easy answer, except the standard 'no penetration' one. Dictionary meanings vary between 'untouched' and 'never given birth'.

 

[Goldfinger]

If you're having oral sex you might as well be having regular sex. Virginity is a state of mind more than anything physical.

 

[InTheFlame]

If you're having oral sex you might as well be having regular sex. Virginity is a state of mind more than anything physical.

That's the logic I used when I started having 'regular' sex. NO, it's not the same. Oral = dumb move, that I would agree with.

 

[Goldfinger]

That's the logic I used when I started having 'regular' sex. NO, it's not the same. Oral = dumb move, that I would agree with.

What makes you think you would be any more of a virgin than if you would have only had oral sex? That is perfectly good logic.

 

[unjustwar]

Anything involving genital(s) anything means your not a virgin anymore. Technically speaking...

 

[InTheFlame]

What makes you think you would be any more of a virgin than if you would have only had oral sex? That is perfectly good logic.

The whole 'what signifies virginity' thing is a red herring. The real question is - 'how much damage have I done myself and other people through sexual experimentation?'

It was your statement of 'If you're having oral sex you might as well be having regular sex' that I was protesting. OK, I realise you meant 'oral sex means lost v just as much as 'regular' sex', but that's not what you said - and it can cause very bad chains of logic for others, as I demonstrated so well in my own life

 

[InTheFlame]

Anything involving genital(s) anything means your not a virgin anymore. Technically speaking...

Come on, show us your technical reference...

 

[Goldfinger]

The whole 'what signifies virginity' thing is a red herring. The real question is - 'how much damage have I done myself and other people through sexual experimentation?'

It was your statement of 'If you're having oral sex you might as well be having regular sex' that I was protesting. OK, I realise you meant 'oral sex means lost v just as much as 'regular' sex', but that's not what you said - and it can cause very bad chains of logic for others, as I demonstrated so well in my own life

Aahh, I understand. My first statement was reactionary to your first statement which encourages people to go have oral sex then still define themselves as being a virgin.

 

[fishstix]

Technically, if you have not had sexual intercourse, you are a virgin. If you have had sexual intercourse, you are not a virgin. So technically, a person who has done 'everything but' is still a virgin.

However, it is important to remember that virginity and purity are not the same thing. Someone may be technically a virgin but may have totally squandered their sexual purity by doing 'everything but'. Someone else may not be a virgin but may still have their sexual purity intact (for example, someone who lost their virginity against their will). Engaging in oral sex and 'heavy petting' won't take away virginity, but outside of marriage it will take away from sexual purity.

 

[HotToast]

I was going to post what fishstix said, but I doubt that I could explain it as well as fishstix did.

So I will just restate that there are two different issues here, virginity and purity.

In otherwords, naivelytrusting what you are thinking of is purity, and what your friends are thinking of is virginity. And as a christian I believe that I am called to both, while single.

Just my 2 cents worth
Toast

 

[Willseeker]

Yup, i also agree with Fishstix... I just want to add, that with God's grace you can become pure again, after being impure. You cannot become a virgin again, after losing your virginity...

 

[MetalBlade]

I think Fishstick hit the nail on the head. You don't loose your virginity until you have sexual intercourse. I don't think you can loose your virginity from oral sex, but oral sex is a form of sexual intimacy. Come on with the kissing though. haha you can't loose your virginity from just kissing someone.

 

[The Princess Bride]

Yup, Fishstix hit the nail on the head!!
Like HotToast said, this isn't about just one issue, it is about two: Virginity and Purity.

You can be a virgin and be as unpure as a soiled cloth, or a nonvirgin and be washed whiter than snow. It is about where your heart is. If we desire God, more and more, our love for Him grows. Thus, the more we long to be like Him; having His holiness in our lives. 2 Cor 7:1 Paul admonished, "Let us purify ourselves from EVERYTHING that CONTAMINATES BODY, SOUL, and SPIRIT, perfecting HOLINESS out of REVERENCE to GOD." When we stand in that state of awe and respect before Him, we value and pursue His holiness for ourself. Oswald Chambers defines purity as "Unsullied walking with the feet, unsullied talking with the tongue, unsullied thinking with the mind--EVERY DETAIL of life under the scrutiny of God. Holiness is not what God gives me, but what I manifest that God has given me." Living a life of purity takes a daily engaging of the mind, heart, sould, and strength to make wise and discerning decisions based on God's principles.
While physical purity and virginity are important and we are commanded to keep them, can we truly consider ourselves pure in mind and heart when we allow garbage to come in and sew seeds of lust and discontent? When you begin to even come close to that line in the sand about where your boundaries are, sin will take you further than you want to go, keep you longer than you want to stay, and cost you more than you want to pay. Today, you may consider oral sex a sin, a month from now, after your boundaries have slipped, it's no biggie any longer.
Convictions and boundaries made in the sand only last as long as the next wave that comes and sweeps them away. The must be set in stone to last. Dont compromise your virginity or purity, no guy or girl is worth that pain, shame, and guilt that you feel. I am a virgin, but I have compromised a LOT more ground than I wanted to, and it is only the grace of God that nothing went beyond making-out. The cool thing about God, is He washes us with Hyssop so we are whiter than snow! God is so awesome and so great!


Blessings,
~Pib

 

[Linnis]

I do think it's odd people who claim to be Chirstians can have anal and oral sex and as long as their is no vagina and penis coming together it's alright and they are still "pure" and can have their "white wedding" and I do think it's odd that most Chistians I've met put less stock in the importances of a male waiting until marriage to have sex. I do not think God made rules and then colored some pink for girls and the rest blue for boys. I also think that God knows what's what and all these people who walk as close to the line as possible are fooling God for one second.

I do have to agree with fishstix, virginity and purity are not the same thing. One can claim to be a virgin yet do "everything but" but that doesn't mean they are even anywhere near being pure.

 

[Niels]

I do have to agree with fishstix, virginity and purity are not the same thing. One can claim to be a virgin yet do "everything but" but that doesn't mean they are even anywhere near being pure.

I think virginity and purity are both admirable. However, which kind of employee would you rather have: An employee who truly wants to steal candy, but would never do such a thing... or an employee who steals candy from time to time, but maintains a pure-as-driven-snow attitude about it?

 

[SOLDOUT4HIM]

Stix, you're the man. That is so true. Having oral or anal sex, thought it won't get her pregnant, will still tranmit STD's. They are not a safer way, unless you're okay with telling your future wife/husband that you got an STD b/c you decided to "keep your virginity" for them, but not your purity. I am not perfect, no one is (read the Bible), but I am trying to stay pure for the girl God has for me.

 

[naivelytrusting]

wow......I didn't realize this would be such a popular thread! but yeah, it's something we've been talking about for a long time so it really shouldn't surprise me that much. I think I agree with you guys in that you may not lose your virginity but you will lose your purity. I think it's wrong to say you're this great Christian and stuff and then go out and do those things but I really try not to judge because everyone has their vices. but I think it's important to realize there's a difference between virginity and purity so thanks everyone who answered!

 

[Oblivious]

Technically, if you have not had sexual intercourse, you are a virgin. If you have had sexual intercourse, you are not a virgin. So technically, a person who has done 'everything but' is still a virgin.

However, it is important to remember that virginity and purity are not the same thing. Someone may be technically a virgin but may have totally squandered their sexual purity by doing 'everything but'. Someone else may not be a virgin but may still have their sexual purity intact (for example, someone who lost their virginity against their will). Engaging in oral sex and 'heavy petting' won't take away virginity, but outside of marriage it will take away from sexual purity.

Very well put.

 

[vibrant]

I think virginity and purity are both admirable. However, which kind of employee would you rather have: An employee who truly wants to steal candy, but would never do such a thing... or an employee who steals candy from time to time, but maintains a pure-as-driven-snow attitude about it?

huh?