Debunking the whole idea of "soul ties"

[invisiblebabe]

Disclaimer: Many if not all of the ideas in this thread are from my own experiences and theories. I do think I am right, but I realize that my word is not the final one on the subject... God's word is. Oh, and I also fully believe that sex outside of marriage is sin.

On with the thread:

It is my postulation that the entire idea of "soul ties" resulting from sexual intercourse is but a myth.

Why?

First of all, there are other ways for two people's souls to be interconnected without involving any type of sexual attraction.
1 Samuel 17:1 "And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David"
Here the Bible clearly states that David and Jonathan's souls were one, and this resulted from their friendship, their agreement, and their connection, obviously not from sex. So, why would sex be the thing to join people's souls together, if other things are obviously capable of producing that kind of connection?

Secondly, the evidence --or more accurately, lack thereof-- in the Bible speaks for itself. Nowhere in the Bible does it say sex creates "soul ties." It only says that the people "become one flesh," which refers to what the physical act of sex actually is. I will use an example to illustrate why this is so. In pairs figure skating, any couple that is any good at all will move as if they are one. They will do their jumps, lifts, and other skills together as if their bodies are joined. Their bodies have to be completely in sync with each other if they are to do well. While I realize my analogy cannot be taken further, it does help prove the point as to what this "one flesh" joining is meant to explain -- the literal, physical aspect of it, not the emotional or spiritual. Yes, sex is ideally supposed to deepen emotional attachments that already exist, but it cannot create that which is not already there. If some stranger raped me tomorrow, would I suddenly be emotionally connected to him? I highly doubt it!

Finally, the idea of premarital sex creating "soul ties" is actually a violation of the definition of true intimacy. Sin always hinders true intimacy; it started in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve hid from God, afraid to share themselves fully with Him.... and it continues on to this day in our fallen world. Thus, how in the world would premarital sex, a sin, be capable of joining two people in an intimate connection? It may seem it is a connection, but counterfeit money also seems like the real thing, and CZ's look an awful lot like real diamonds to the untrained eye.

Anyhow, in conclusion, I think the whole "soul ties" phenomenon is another gnostic and mystical idea the contemporary Christian subculture came up with, similar to the likes of "the one" (which I also think is bunk... but that is for another thread ).

edit: clarification/grammar

 

[Brutus/HisCatalyst]

Great Post. I would agree.

 

[JPPT1974]

Amen my friend and God bless!!

 

[WITNESS8]

invisiblebabe,

I agree highly with what you are saying.

It also should be said that if there are such a thing as "soul-ties" that when a person is born-again as a believer in Christ, they will no longer have a "soul-tie".


In Christ.

 

[invisiblebabe]

invisiblebabe,

I agree highly with what you are saying.

It also should be said that if there are such a thing as "soul-ties" that when a person is born-again as a believer in Christ, they will no longer have a "soul-tie".


In Christ.

I would agree, except for one thing: what about people who are already Christians who commit fornication? They definitely exist... so I would say that any bondage to that act would be broken upon repentance, whether the person is already a Christian or has just become one.

God bless
Kayli

 

[Carri20]

Great post, invisiblebabe.

 

[findinghope06]

i totally agree with you!

 

[Stanfi]

I believe that anytime you put a lot of emotional enegry into a relationship with another person, you can devleop a soul tie with them. It can happen without sexual activity.

 

[london boy]

I do agree, but think it will vary from person to person. Some will have difficulty overcoming the nature of the relationship, especially if it was a long-term thing. Like Mr. Stace said, it depends on the emotional make-up of the individual.

 

[JPPT1974]

If I had a huge breakup during a long-term relationship, I would be devestated that it would nearly shatter my world. If it was a short-term but still a huge breakup, be devestating but not enough like it would a long-term one.

 

[Niels]

If you use a narrow definition for 'soul tie', it's easily debunked. And personally, I find this new idea a little strange. However, there is something to it. Certain things do tie people together, especially the sharing of powerful experiences. Sex is very powerful, and the mutual sharing of this wonderful experience often does manifest in a physiological-emotional bond. People can and do reconnect with past loves, where the flame never truly died. If that's what a 'soul tie' is, you'd be hard-pressed to debunk it.

 

[revelations12_12]

invisiblebabe,

I agree highly with what you are saying.

It also should be said that if there are such a thing as "soul-ties" that when a person is born-again as a believer in Christ, they will no longer have a "soul-tie".


In Christ.

what if you become a born again believer and then go out and sleep with people?

 

[invisiblebabe]

what if you become a born again believer and then go out and sleep with people?

I responded to precisely that point... it's a few posts back, on the first page

 

[invisiblebabe]

If you use a narrow definition for 'soul tie', it's easily debunked. And personally, I find this new idea a little strange. However, there is something to it. Certain things do tie people together, especially the sharing of powerful experiences. Sex is very powerful, and the mutual sharing of this wonderful experience often does manifest in a physiological-emotional bond. People can and do reconnect with past loves, where the flame never truly died. If that's what a 'soul tie' is, you'd be hard-pressed to debunk it.

But is sex absolutely necessary to create that 'soul tie'?? Or is it created by the sharing of deep emotions and innermost thoughts, and the physical, if it occurs, is merely an expression of a connection that is already there?

And, I was debunking the idea that somehow sex magically makes two people's souls connected in a way that nothing else can, and those 'soul ties' are never broken, even when people marry others. I was not debunking the idea that sex could bring a couple closer or add to intensity in a relationship that already exists. It certainly has the potential to do that... but I daresay it also has the potential to drive a wedge between two people, too, depending on the emotional and psychological state of their relationship and whether it is or is not done within the context of marriage.

 

[Niels]

But is sex absolutely necessary to create that 'soul tie'?? Or is it created by the sharing of deep emotions and innermost thoughts, and the physical, if it occurs, is merely an expression of a connection that is already there?

And, I was debunking the idea that somehow sex magically makes two people's souls connected in a way that nothing else can, and those 'soul ties' are never broken, even when people marry others. I was not debunking the idea that sex could bring a couple closer or add to intensity in a relationship that already exists. It certainly has the potential to do that... but I daresay it also has the potential to drive a wedge between two people, too, depending on the emotional and psychological state of their relationship and whether it is or is not done within the context of marriage.

I think sex necessary for 'soul ties', but sexual contact alone shouldn't qualify for 'soul tie' status. For that you'd need both mental intimacy and the physical sex. Rape doesn't involve a deeply loving connection, and clearly doesn't create a 'soul tie' (except maybe on the part of the rapist, in a deplorable way). Mental intimacy can be powerful (emotional infidelity etc.), but it's not a whole 'body and soul' experience, like the physical act tends to inspire. Without sex, the central ingredient for 'soul ties' would be absent.

Sex isn't merely an expression of something that's already there, it's also the creation of a powerful experience. People can be close, verbally intimate, even sleep together non-sexually, but it's still not the same as having sex. Even as depicted in the popular media, sex can and does profoundly alter the course relationships. And while I suppose it's possible to have truly awful sex that disgusts both people involved, the physical expressions of sexuality do tend to be pleasurable. Even if a relationship turns sour, that pleasure is still there, in the back of the mind. The sweet (in terms of the act) memory of a past lover remains. The sexual relations that don't create these 'soul ties' would be the exception rather than the rule.

As for the impact of these 'soul ties', a lot would depend a lot on the circumstances and people involved. The memory may remain, but there are worse things that can happen, and I can't say that what we're calling 'soul ties' necessarily cause relationship problems.

 

[treerootbill]

I agree with the first post.

Some people seem to confuse having deep feelings towards someone and sex. Although in pre marital cases, people often have deep feelings towards the ones they sleep with, in many cases people just have sex with someone based upon lust. No feelings involved.

 

[JPPT1974]

I agree with the first post.

Some people seem to confuse having deep feelings towards someone and sex. Although in pre marital cases, people often have deep feelings towards the ones they sleep with, in many cases people just have sex with someone based upon lust. No feelings involved.

I plead guilty to have feelings towards people that may be married or in an relationship like lusting after them when I shouldn't be at all.

 

[the_man]

I agree with what you are saying (as you already know), but just a few things to pick out.

Secondly, the evidence --or more accurately, lack thereof-- in the Bible speaks for itself. Nowhere in the Bible does it say sex creates "soul ties." It only says that the people "become one flesh," which refers to what the physical act of sex actually is. I will use an example to illustrate why this is so. In pairs figure skating, any couple that is any good at all will move as if they are one. They will do their jumps, lifts, and other skills together as if their bodies are joined.

I think your example is a very good one, I just don't believe that "become one flesh" refers to the physical act of sex. I think it refers to the relationship that the two it is intended at are supposed to have. Whenever the Bible uses one to refer to many people, it is always talking about agreement of people to move together as a unit, support each other as a team (that is why I think your example is good).

"one in spirit" (1 Samuel 18:1), does not mean that Jonathan's spirit became one with Davids spirit so that when they get to heaven, we can't tell them apart. It is refering to their relationship, it being so close, it is as if they were inseperable.

"one accord" (Joshua 9:2), does not mean that all the different tribes turned to Israelites to fight. It is refering to the relationship with the different tribes to the israelites to say that they agreed to fight with them as if they were Israelites themselves.

"one flesh" (Genesis 2:24), does not mean that Adam and Eve are not longer their distinct physical beings. No, it is refering to the relationship that they are to have with each other.

The Bible is consistant in it's use of one 'anything'. Also to note that even the "sex" book of the Bible mentions nothing of this "one flesh". That's because its focus was not the relationship and more the enjoyment of each other.

Finally, the idea of premarital sex creating "soul ties" is actually a violation of the definition of true intimacy. Sin always hinders true intimacy; it started in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve hid from God, afraid to share themselves fully with Him.... and it continues on to this day in our fallen world. Thus, how in the world would premarital sex, a sin, be capable of joining two people in an intimate connection? It may seem it is a connection, but counterfeit money also seems like the real thing, and CZ's look an awful lot like real diamonds to the untrained eye.

I think this was the strongest point. Well said.

Anyhow, in conclusion, I think the whole "soul ties" phenomenon is another gnostic and mystical idea the contemporary Christian subculture came up with, similar to the likes of "the one" (which I also think is bunk... but that is for another thread ).

Agreed. I think the whole concept is unbiblical. The confusion, however has more to do with our use of the word "soul" rather than what the translaters use of the world "soul" is to mean. I.e. we use 'soul' and 'spirit' interchangibly, which is not what the intended purpose of putting 'soul' in the Bible was meant to convey. Reason being, even if there were this thing we say is called 'soul tie' it would imply that there is something beyond the physical experience on earth to marriage. Which is clearly not the case (Matt 22:30 ".. people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven").

 

[pretty_girl182]

Sex, as it was created by God, is not just an act of pleasure or self-satisfaction. While many people use it as such, many people experience it as something else.
Guys don't feel this at all as much as girls do-guys are very physical when it comes to sex, but women are much more emotional.
Sex has a way of bringing two people together as nothing else can, and that is why when it is done in a deplorable way (rape) it is felt and taken to heart so deeply by the person it is done to. While I don't really believe there is a "soul-tie" involved here, something really does draw you closer to the person-in a way that nothing else can.
If you really love the person, then your love will build on this. But as a women (I'm not really sure how it is for guys, but like I said they're more physical and don't care half as much) no matter who you sleep with or how long you've known them, unless you've programmed yourself to get over it, or to not care when they leave, it's going to be very hard. You are going to want to pursue a further relationship with them and you can't just walk away even if you didn't even know or love them in the first place. You've been intimate with them, and there is a link there that you will always feel.

 

[Inperfected]

I think physical togetherness can deepen what is already there. But i think it's not jsut the act that does it, but the communication and togetherness stemming from it.