Dealing with a spouse who won't listen?

[ValleyGal]

Easy way out? Cosmetic surgery is not "easy." It is costly, and can easily be botched or become infected. It's not the "easy" way out. Still, there are a lot of people who want to look better than they do. Maybe your wife had not counted on you seeing her as not measuring up just because she is not as fit as you want her to be, and that is why she figures it's easier to just please you by looking pretty without the fuss. TBH, I would too. I am so thankful that my husband thinks I'm beautiful whether I am in shape or not, whether I wear makeup or not, whether my hair is done or not, whether I am thin or not. Your wife might say she wishes she were prettier because she thinks being prettier will make you love her like you did when you were first married.

You are hurting your wife's feelings, even if you don't speak these things to her, it will come out in your behaviour, like not wanting to have sex with her because you are turned off because of her "un"fitness. I hope you consider what I'm saying - I'm sure you do not want to continue to hurt your wife's feelings.

 

[ValleyGal]

That "answerable to God" part would be the downside of being "head of the household," wouldn't it?

Husbands and wives are both answerable to God. But I believe that just as Jesus answers to God for our sin and sets a loving and peaceful and joyful tone for the Bride, a husband is also responsible for his wife. And just as the church Bride responds in love, respect, and accepting that peaceful, joyful, loving tone, influencing her tone back to him as well as to others.

I would not say it's a "downside" so much as it is an accountability that God has built into the marriage relationship. I suppose accountability could be seen as a downside; personally, I see it is a form of encouragement to always be at my best in my marriage.

 

[LostInTheBass]

Easy way out? Cosmetic surgery is not "easy." It is costly, and can easily be botched or become infected. It's not the "easy" way out. Still, there are a lot of people who want to look better than they do. Maybe your wife had not counted on you seeing her as not measuring up just because she is not as fit as you want her to be, and that is why she figures it's easier to just please you by looking pretty without the fuss. TBH, I would too. I am so thankful that my husband thinks I'm beautiful whether I am in shape or not, whether I wear makeup or not, whether my hair is done or not, whether I am thin or not. Your wife might say she wishes she were prettier because she thinks being prettier will make you love her like you did when you were first married.

You are hurting your wife's feelings, even if you don't speak these things to her, it will come out in your behaviour, like not wanting to have sex with her because you are turned off because of her "un"fitness. I hope you consider what I'm saying - I'm sure you do not want to continue to hurt your wife's feelings.

Cosmetic surgery is insanely cheap in S. Korea.

Her complaining started long before I even mentioned anything about her getting fit. She would always watch Korean TV shows and fuss about how she wanted to be thin like all the Korean actresses, and I would always tell her that thin like that isn't pretty, you're pretty now, but if you want to be prettier then hit the gym. Then she would jump on the plastic surgery spiel. That's how it started out. But then she just kept complaining and not doing anything about it, which lead to this frustration. It's a giant circle.

 

[SilkRainn]

Maybe she is, but you are blaming her rather than taking ownership of your own self-centredness.

You can't argue or nag a man into having an erection.

 

[ValleyGal]

You can't argue or nag a man into having an erection.

No one is saying she should nag him into having one - just as he can't nag her into getting thin. Nagging never works. However, a body will respond to sexual stimulus, even when they are not into it - rape proves this. If physiology didn't take over for a woman being raped, she would suffer a lot more than she actually does. The OP can use his mind to train his body what to respond to, even if it is only the memory of the beautiful bride he married.

In the Bible, we see a few places where a man is told to be satisfied with the wife of his youth, and may her "breasts satisfy you always" and that sort of thing. Well, for most women, their body parts will eventually head south, whether they stay thin, fit or not. So if a man is told what he should find satisfying, he should be able to tell himself what he finds satisfying - kind of like Job, who made a "covenant with his eyes" to never look lustfully at another woman. I'll bet he could get an erection for his wife, but not for other women.

Anyway, that is not what this thread is about. His concern is not all those points he brought up in his OP. His concern is that she does not listen to him - and this is a much deeper thing than not getting horny just because she isn't as fit as he would like. That's only a symptom. There's much more going on here, and if people want to help, they will address the heart of the matter rather than band-aid the symptoms.

 

[hijklmnop]

This thread is making me ill.

 

[Godsgirl79]

Small world, my husband doesn't listen to me either! I don't know if that's a cultural thing or a human thing. Now I have some questions. Is it that she doesn't listen and do what you want her to do, our is it that she just doesn't agree with you? You mentioned that you listen to her, which was one of the first things I wondered, but you also mentioned that you think about it and decide or choose not to do what she says because it's stupid (my words). Do you have examples of what she asks that's you chose not to do? She has a right to choose not to agree with you as well though I will admit that the lack of consideration can be frustrating. We all need to be listened to and considered.

If my husband was complaing about my "health" I would hear the real complaint behind it (unless I already has health problems and was really a concern" which is "I'm afraid you'll keep getting fat and unattractive". I just had a baby and gainee 70 pounds. She is 5 weeks old now and since I've had her I've lost 40 of it and plan to lose the rest... one dy my husband made a comment... indirect about weight when I was eating a slice of cheese cake.. when he did that it made me want to buy a whole cake and sit and eat it in front of him.. slowly while staring in his eyes.. and moan with each bite... because I want to say back.. are you going to love and want me despite my weight?

I commend you for focusing it on her health though, but most of us women will believe or know the real concern behind the complaint.

It sounds like you are a good person and really trying to do things right by her and god abd your concerns are valid... but please consider if you are treating her how you want to be treated, she is different then you and may not ever act how you think she said.. tgats just a fact we all learn after being married a long time. I know what you mean about being an introvert and needing space. I can spend all day sitting at home reading a good book or writing my thoughts by myself. My husband is outgoing and always out doing something like softball.. yet I have the same complaint as your wife.. he enjous doing solo activisties and tells me he's jusy independent. I think it's a woman thing, because we have a need to be connected to our spouses... for relationship. I have told my husband many timrs thst I might as well be single and why even bother being married to me if he won't spend time with me. Nect year ill start subbing and play softball with him.. not because I'm athletic I am so not... but because I want to try it... I personally have a bit of social anxiety and fear people are looking at me and will all laugh when they see me running lol which is why I am not athletic. However I have asked him many times to watch a movie with me because to me thas bonding to cuddle together and talk or laugh about it but he refuses because its not jis thing... so why is it only about him? That makes me resentful and is selfish. . Not love. Be careful to not have double standards... what matters isn't if you agree with what she wants... but that you are considerate of what she wants

 

[Godsgirl79]

I read through some responses and people said what I was already thinking... I once read in a marriage book that men should treat their nag like a thoroughbred ( talking about horses) if you want thrm to act like a thouroughbred. That Is important for both men and women to do I think and I have practiced that myself. . If you praise her for what you like about her.. and it's genuine then shell likely be much more responsive. That is just psychology for you.. I have practiced that with my kids and patients and it does a couple of things... it helps change your attitude to one of more acceptance and to view them in a more positive light.. it brings you closer to them and helps them trust you, and it motivates them to do their best. I have worked in psych hospitals many years and that is the best advice I can give to anyone. I really pour it on.. practce this when I get difficult or poorly motivated patients and have seen miracle transformations as a result. But the best thing it does for me is it helps mr like them more. I would love it if my husband encouraged me to go to the gym with him... as long as I didn't sense he "needed" me to... if I sensed that frustration in him my interest to go would be gone and I'd be hurt and resentful

 

[Godsgirl79]

You are making mistakes in your assumptions. For one, love and intimacy are not one. They are more of a Venn diagram that overlaps. Add in the fact that men are visual in nature, when you subtract the visual stimulation how am I even supposed to be aroused?! Second, I didn't say anything about her losing weight. I am talking about getting fit. Again, two different things. And so what if it's superficial? As you said bodies change. Is it not better to enjoy it while it lasts? A body that's not fit at a young age will be even worse off when older. Everything I am saying here applies to me too, and that's why you will find me in the gym.



This is something that I haven't thought about. Her mother has always been controlling (apparently the majority of Korean mothers are) and even now she tells her (and me) what to do and when to do it. My wife might be applying her rebelliousness to me as well.

As far as me being self-centered, maybe I am, but how is she not being self-centered herself? Letting yourself go and still expecting the same intimacy as before is selfish and lazy.[/

QUOTE]

Yeah and no offense you seem to be a little controlling.. which might be why she was drawn to you

 

[Godsgirl79]

You are making mistakes in your assumptions. For one, love and intimacy are not one. They are more of a Venn diagram that overlaps. Add in the fact that men are visual in nature, when you subtract the visual stimulation how am I even supposed to be aroused?! Second, I didn't say anything about her losing weight. I am talking about getting fit. Again, two different things. And so what if it's superficial? As you said bodies change. Is it not better to enjoy it while it lasts? A body that's not fit at a young age will be even worse off when older. Everything I am saying here applies to me too, and that's why you will find me in the gym.



This is something that I haven't thought about. Her mother has always been controlling (apparently the majority of Korean mothers are) and even now she tells her (and me) what to do and when to do it. My wife might be applying her rebelliousness to me as well.

As far as me being self-centered, maybe I am, but how is she not being self-centered herself? Letting yourself go and still expecting the same intimacy as before is selfish and lazy.

Ahh that last statement just made me real sad. Mainly because I crave that intimacy with my husband but he doesn't give it to me, and I have always struggled with my weight. I was over weight when we met and pursued me.. and I told him or warned him that I always gain a lot of weight when pregnant. This was my fifth child so I know... he reassured me and encouraged me to get pregant anways. Now we are on a downward slope to divorce because he calls me fat*** and rejects me intimately while trying to get me to watch porn and more. The root of our problem though is his self-centerdness..

I get what you are saying about needing to be visually attracted to your wife. . That being said I believe that beauty is truly in the eyes of the beholder. God told women to be meek and quiet.. correct me if I didn't totally get thay right.. and this is what will give them hope and make them beautiful. I want to be beautiful to my husband on the outside but its going to tske time to lose all this weight. If he loved me for whay was on the inside then the outside flaes wouldnt be so evident. Our relationship was built off the physical from the get go which has turned out to be shifting sand. I have relearned the lesson to get to really kniw people and love them for inward things first. .. everyone is correct.. the physical truly is vein.. even fit people age.. I was naturally very attractive in my 20s.. I could just throw on jeans my hair in a pony tail and no make up and people all looked and the weight easily came off. Now that I'm in my 30s I have to put on make up.. and the weight does not want to budge which means thst exersize will be a must.. what hope will I have in 10 more years..20...? Will I hace to live with tge fear that my husband might leave me for someone younger abd prettier? For a woman this is really sad. And for men also.. because they suffer too when they can't be content

 

[RDKirk]

I get what you are saying about needing to be visually attracted to your wife. . That being said I believe that beauty is truly in the eyes of the beholder. God told women to be meek and quiet.. correct me if I didn't totally get thay right.. and this is what will give them hope and make them beautiful. I want to be beautiful to my husband on the outside but its going to tske time to lose all this weight. If he loved me for whay was on the inside then the outside flaes wouldnt be so evident. Our relationship was built off the physical from the get go which has turned out to be shifting sand. I have relearned the lesson to get to really kniw people and love them for inward things first. .. everyone is correct.. the physical truly is vein.. even fit people age.. I was naturally very attractive in my 20s.. I could just throw on jeans my hair in a pony tail and no make up and people all looked and the weight easily came off. Now that I'm in my 30s I have to put on make up.. and the weight does not want to budge which means thst exersize will be a must.. what hope will I have in 10 more years..20...? Will I hace to live with tge fear that my husband might leave me for someone younger abd prettier? For a woman this is really sad. And for men also.. because they suffer too when they can't be content

I agree.

Human beings are not instinct-driven animals. The fact is that each one of us makes his or her own decision about what is attractive.

I discovered when I was a senior in high school that I was (in my daughter's words) a "brain bigot." A woman might initially strike me as attractive physically, but if I discover she's an airhead, I've become aware that she will actually lose even physical attractiveness in my eyes.

OTOH, a woman might initially strike me as visually plain, but if I discover that she's bright and great in conversation, I'll begin to notice more and more that's physically attractive about her.

IOW, my real standard of attractiveness is her brain...the physical appearance is a distraction that my mind automatically adjusts to in accordance with what I like (or dislike) about her head.

My point here is that a man can deliberately change his view of what he finds attractive, and he can continue to change it through his life. It's a choice. A human can choose to like whatever he chooses to like.

What a husband ought to do is to make his wife his standard of beauty. This is something Mark Driscoll said, and I like the quip:

If his wife is thin, his standard of beauty should be "thin." If his wife is thick, his standard of beauty should be "thick." If his wife "used to be thin," his standard of beauty should be "used to be thin."

My addition: If a man makes his wife his standard of beauty, then all other women are substandard.

 

[ValleyGal]

My addition: If a man makes his wife his standard of beauty, then all other women are substandard.

Yep. I believe this is what Job did when he made a "covenant" with his eyes.

 

[LostInTheBass]

Is it that she doesn't listen and do what you want her to do, our is it that she just doesn't agree with you? You mentioned that you listen to her, which was one of the first things I wondered, but you also mentioned that you think about it and decide or choose not to do what she says because it's stupid (my words). Do you have examples of what she asks that's you chose not to do? She has a right to choose not to agree with you as well though I will admit that the lack of consideration can be frustrating.

Okay, here's two examples:

1: I would like to get some pilot certifications in the near future to help with my career and better our lives. My wife is very supportive of this. And I tell her that I'm thankful that she is being supportive of it, because no one else in my life is. However, she wants me to start working on it immediately, and we are not in a financial situation to do so. When I tell her this, she just says "well find a way." If she had listened she would have heard the part about us not having the money to start investing on this and said, "okay, let's wait until we're better off financially."

2: She wanted to try some Korean witch-doctor medicine that involved eating raw ginseng root. I told her over and over that I wasn't going to do it. I was going to stick with the medications that the doctors prescribed to me, which have been working fine. Despite this, she goes out and spends $400 on a load of wild ginseng for myself, her, and her parents to eat. So now I'm in a position where I pretty much have to, and I eat the stuff. Well, it works. It works by flushing the bloodstream. So my heartburn medication got flushed out of my bloodstream and I had terrible heartburn the next day. At first she said "okay, you don't have to eat it anymore," but then 5 hours later she was trying to get me to eat it again.

A human can choose to like whatever he chooses to like.

I'm sorry, but this is completely false. I have absolutely no control over my likes/dislikes, and no matter how hard I try to change them, they won't. They cannot be consciously changed. They grow through experience, and before I got married I had very little experience, so in many cases I didn't even know what I liked/disliked until I had been married for a period of time and had the experience. Now I'm sitting here with more dislikes than likes; about myself, about my wife, about our life, about everything.

 

[RDKirk]

I have absolutely no control over my likes/dislikes, and no matter how hard I try to change them, they won't. They cannot be consciously changed. They grow through experience, and before I got married I had very little experience, so in many cases I didn't even know what I liked/disliked until I had been married for a period of time and had the experience. Now I'm sitting here with more dislikes than likes; about myself, about my wife, about our life, about everything.

If your wife was perfect for you right now, the fact is that she's going to be different in ten years and different from that ten years from then.

If you can't learn to change your likes/dislikes, you're setting yourself up for unhappiness, because nobody stays the same.

 

[ValleyGal]

I'm sorry, but this is completely false. I have absolutely no control over my likes/dislikes,

This is learned helplessness. The Bible tells us that we do have the power to change - it tells us that we need to transform our hearts and minds to the likeness of Christ Jesus. It even tells us how - by taking every thought captive and making it obedient to Christ. It tells us to think of things that are lovely, right, pure, praiseworthy, etc, and you are not doing these things. Instead, you are focusing on what you think you are doing right and what you think your wife is doing wrong. You are so busy nurturing negative thoughts about her that they will override your positive ones. And your negative thinking leads to blaming.

In point 1, you blame her for not listening. Have you modeled active listening? In point 2, you blame her, which in your mind, absolves you of responsibility. You did not have to eat the ginseng root, just because she bought it. You ate it; she did not force you, so do not blame her for your heartburn.

I can so plainly see what's going on here. Please, OP, please pick up the book "Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work" by Dr. John Gottman and Nan Silver. When you read it, don't just sit there thinking about all the terrible ills that your wife is doing to you; rather, think about yourself, and how you see yourself reflected in the book. Be honest with yourself and with God. Take ownership of the ways you are contributing to the issues in the marriage, and when you know specifically what they are, go to your wife, ready to change them, starting with humility to ask her forgiveness.

 

[LostInTheBass]

I don't understand. Forgiveness for what? I do twice (if not more) the amount of work she does. I'm the one cooking. I'm the one cleaning. I'm the one doing the laundry. I'm the one running to the grocery store. On top of grad school, working out, and maintaining my hobbies so I don't lose my sanity, how is it too much for me to ask her to go to the gym when the only three things she does are help out with her parents' store, watch TV, and wash dishes?!

I knew I would regret asking for help on the internet. The only results are the overly masculine answer of "leave her" (which I will not do), the overly feminist "accept her for who/what she is" which is unacceptable, and the classic attack the OP and blame everything on him/her. I thought it would be different on a Christian forum but apparently not.

 

[eatenbylocusts]

My dh and I recently celebrated our 3rd anniversary. When he saw my picture online many years back I was at least 40 pounds heavier. Several years later we met up as "friends" and I had lost 45 pounds. Before we married we both gained some weight. I have lost a few pounds after that after finding some gym classes that I love. I am still about 20 pounds heavier than when we first met, but I had probably lost a bit too much.
My dh started voicing concerns about my "health" and how we both needed to lose some weight and would tell me not to eat certain things, especially at night. Did it help? NO!!!!!!! I had to tell him many times how that made me feel. It made me feel unloved, unattractive, too mad to enjoy sex, and made me want to eat more to deal with the feelings. Add to that that I had dated someone a few years before him who needed to lose weight, but criticized me and made a comment about being able to choose someone with a proper weight. ( so thankful that didn't work out for other reasons) I got on Weight Watchers because my systolic blood pressure was hovering around 140 and I didn't want to take medication. In the last year I found I love group classes at the gym and find I can sustain a higher intensity in that situation.

Most women will take any exercise advice or food advice as a criticism and it will do the opposite of what you want to achieve. If you just want to fight, you can continue shooting yourself in the foot or you can stop and try something that might work.

It sounds like there is a lot of resentment and it needs to be dealt with. My dh never lost interest in sex with me and I wonder if in your case it is resentment or just your own issues you have alluded to? My dh and I grew to love each other because of our shared interests and character. I hope you have some of that basis with your wife.

Christian marriages should glorify God. If you can't get male Christian mentoring from your present church I would suggest you find a men's group somewhere else to help you lead your wife and love her like Christ. If you truly believe the Bible you have to understand that you are one with your wife and you cannot "win" by hurting her. If you hurt your spouse, you hurt yourself and your marriage.

You are commanded to love your wife. That is a good starting point. I wouldn't expect changes over night, but things might get better once the criticism stops. Humble yourself and please her and she may try to out please you. Her shows are probably an escape from the unhappiness in the marriage. If your wife is complaining about needing to spend time with you, please don't ignore it. You might want to look online for a love languages test and both of you take it. It would probably mean a lot to her to know that you are interested in trying to make her happy. For someone who treasures quality time a walk holding hands down the street or at the mall will do wonders.

 

[LostInTheBass]

But what works? If giving a woman health advice makes them want to do the opposite, then what else can possibly work? I don't know how I can ever live with someone who won't take care of herself, and if I had known things would be this way I wouldn't have gotten married in the first place. Of course I won't tell her that, because it will make things worse.

This is learned helplessness.

No it isn't. My brother-in-law is a perfect example of learned helplessness. He can't cook or clean for himself because his mother always does it for him. And he's 32!

 

[ValleyGal]

LostintheBass, you came to the internet looking for advice. You have received some great and godly advice. No one has suggested you leave her, and everyone has suggested that you have some stuff to work on, and it is all about becoming a more godly husband by learning to love your wife the way Jesus loves the church. Remember, he loved us while we were yet sinners. He loved us selflessly. But you want perfection according to your standards of perfection, and even your last post is all about you and tooting your own horn at your wife's expense....certainly not the sacrificial love of Christ. So imo, you want to hear us all feel sorry for you and tell you how to fix your wife....that's not going to happen, because you can't fix her. But you can change how you respond to her. That's about boundaries - knowing who is responsible for what, and to whom. But you don't want to hear about your responsibility - but you are convicted by it because you are uncomfortable hearing it, so you know there's some truth in it. And that's okay. Faith comes by hearing, so personal growth also comes by hearing where we fall short.

You have been given godly advice. And you have been given advice from women who likely think very similarly to how your wife thinks. These women know how your wife feels and they are trying to tell you that what you are doing is contributing to the problem rather than fixing it. You can chalk that up to feminism if you like, but it is a matter of fact that women think differently than men, and you won't change the way she thinks. But you can change the way you think - proven by the success of therapies like cognitive-behavioural therapy, dialectical therapy, and other types of learning therapies.

I'm sure you are quite upset to come here and not have your ears tickled by things you want to hear. But imo, it is more important that you hear the truth.

ETA:

No it isn't. My brother-in-law is a perfect example of learned helplessness. He can't cook or clean for himself because his mother always does it for him. And he's 32!

Learned helplessness is playing the victim by blaming others so that you do not have to take responsibility for any of the ills in your life. It is a symptom of co-dependency as well as control. And that is exactly what this is. I see it all the time.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Hey 'Lost'!

Three years in and you're apparently finding out that when you said "I do", you did!!!!!

This is marriage. Welcome to it. You, the introvert, married your wife, the extrovert. You who treasured your alone time now find yourself with someone who is invading your time, taking space in your life, is asking things of you that you didn't expect, and is generally being herself. Alternately, she, who was used to a life of her own now finds herself married to someone who wants alone time, doesn't like to be woken up in the middle of the night by her iPhone, is unhappy about how she looks (although I don't know why...), and wishes she would take better care of herself.

And both of you are generally unhappy about that...

Now you're unhappy with us for being honest with you...

What advice would you like us to give you on how to deal with that? Let's start there, because I think we've got a pretty clear picture on why you're unhappy (or why you think you are, which isn't the reason at all...)