Created to Be His Help-Meet

[Mrs. Enigma]

I fully believe that submission is biblical and can't be outdated. Even though my dh is not saved I still follow this formula. I would only hope someone would question me..... if me submitting to my spouse became 'questionable'. Some of us know or have read people's past posts as to what they see submission as.


If someone is into spanking and brings up submission down the road, questiones will be asked, to get a better feel where the poster is coming from, as to see if they are operating in a healthy view of submision. Not everybody may be aware of a previous posters posts(say the 3 p's 3 times ). I am gathering that's why she's received the responses she's had.

I'm not saying they are into spanking, and mrs.enigma and i agree more than disagree. I hope I didn't come across as attacking....bc she seems to only be trying to look for ways to improve her marriage and share that w/ others. I was simply pointing out..that if you make statements taht aren't in the norm...such as dh sends me to my room when I misbehave, or I sit at his feet and beg forgiveness, concerned sisters will voice their OP.

I actually think I am one of the few that still have a conservative view of submission and believe that scripture still holds in certain areas no matter how much culture has changed...but just like w/ anything else...we can take it to the extremes. With the exception of one post, I Think the majority have responded w/ 'tact'. You can only beat around the bush for so long, w/out saying/asking what you really want to say/ask.

My husband does not spank me, beat me, hit me. Ever. He acts like Jesus.
My husband does not make me grovel and beg. Think of your boss at work, or the president. You do not grovel, but you show respect. Well, now a days, I guess a lot of people don't. Anyway, you may bow to a king. You might dress appropriatley.
If you were gonna ask your dad for a treat in the right way, you would do it in a humble way. My husband acts like Jesus. Now think if you asked Christ for forgiveness, or wanted to present your opinion to him. How would you act. REverently, respectfully, and submissive.

 

[Mrs. Enigma]

I think when it comes to making decisions like that, then I think both the husband and wife should talk about it, and come to a decision. Say the husband says "we need to move because we are broke and the money to be earned is in another state" and the wife says "no I don't want to I have family here and such" well then she should probably go with the husband and move, because it is for the good of the whole family to move. The thing is, it depends on the individual situacion. I think though it is wrong for the husband to hardly ever consult his wife, I mean they are a team. A woman does have a brain and opinion, and I just get a bit worried when a woman acts like she can't consult or talk with her husband and have her imput in making decisions just because she fears she may not be acting submissive. This isn't against submission, its her saying her opinion/thoughts on the matter. In fact the husband may have missed some key element in the decision making process that he doesn't see, but she points it out to him. This is helpful. I just don't think submission means that the woman can't say anything unless the husband asks her to, or that she has to obey him like a child would a parent. That just doesn't make sense to me.

I do not believe that I can not tell my hubby my feelings. I just realize that I am only company manager and he is company boss. My husband thinks I am smart, and he discussess things with me, but we do not discuss it on and on until I agree with him. He does listen with open ears to the managers ideas, and then the boss decides what to do. He does not expect me to argue with his decisions , reject his choice, or hassle him, or tell him why he is such a sinner for doing it his way. He expects me to smile and keep on being a good manager.
And I will say again, that submitting to your hubby may look different than submitting to mine. Your boss may require you to make more decisions, he may like all of your ideas. That is fine. As long as you are still in your manager position, and not trying to be in the boss chair.

 

[Mrs. Enigma]

I don't think that disagreeing equals disrespect at all. We may as well just end this thread if we can't talk about why we agree/disagree with the OP. If Mrs. Enigma feels that is how she best can serve God in her marriage and be happy in it, that is fine for her. Don't expect everyone to have the same exact view on it though.



[BIBLE]1 peter 3:7[/BIBLE]

No please, do not end this thread!!! Submission is a great way to improve even the best marriages. We can disagree. I like having people write responses to me. My submissive stuff usually makes me feel like the other women think I have a disease that they do not want to catch on these forums, so I think the more replies I get to this thread, the merrier!

 

[christalee4]

I've read through the replies, and have also tried to be open-minded:

Any time in which a woman has to state in her marriage that she always is subservient to the husband, regardless of her arguments, or her attempts at persuasions, and especially in the light of the fact that her husband would SEND HER TO HER ROOM to cool down, or understand her faults, bespeaks to me a situation that the wife is being treated like a CHILD.


A wife's opinions should always hold rank, and indeed, should take a major hold in any marriage's decisions, both large and small. A wife is not merely a vessel, nor a plaintive voice in the arrangement. She should not have a small voice and be submissive.

She is an actual partner, and her voice and opinons DO matter.


We are not atheists for thinking this, but we love our husbands in Christ, as they love us.

 

[rosiecotton]

I have this book, borrowed it from a friend at church, but haven't read it yet. Our ministers wife read it and said it was wonderful.
I have some reservations about it because I don't agree with many of the Pearl's ideas. We, for some reason, receive their magazine at church (I'm the church secretary),and there have been things I've read in there I don't agree with. The lady who I borrowed the book from, also has their books on child rearing (which has things in them I don't agree with).
I do believe in submission, and I do submit to my husband. However, really, we are more like partners. We have a great marriage, never really fight and make most decisions together.
I do want to start reading this book though, as I'm extremely curious as to what it says.

 

[InTheFlame]

Here's a curious thing... I'm not a 'submissive' wife, yet my husband and I never have clashes of will. We practice 'submit to each other out of love' and have found this to (so far) negate any need for the husband to be 'boss'.

Mrs E - I find it interesting that you seem to equate arguing and rebelliousness with a non-submissive-dominant marriage. Mind you, from what you've said of your past attitudes in marriage, I can understand that for you, this 'extreme' submission obviously works very well for you and hubby.

I always figured I'd avoid setting my opinions on submission in stone until I was married. Over 18 months later we're well and truly out of the honeymoon phase, and I'm still bemused. It does not seem to be required or useful for us to take those specific roles.

 

[BubbaGumpShrimp]

1Pe 3:7 Likewise, husbands, live together according to knowledge, giving honor to the wife as to the weaker vessel, the female, as truly being co-heirs together of the grace of life, not cutting off your prayers.

A wife is to be treated as a a co-heir in Christ by her hubby.

If a husband is treating his wife like a child he is not treating her as a co-heir and therefore guilty of disobeying the above.

 

[Leanna]

I cook for him, I clean for him, I listen to his thoughts and ramblings, I give him sex, I raise his kids, I play with him, I help him hold the board while he saws, I find his lost stuff.

This just makes me very sad... the whole thought of just "I give him sex"... "I raise HIS kids".....

 

[Galadriel]

I have to say I too have read all the posts and considered them, and Mrs. Enigma, you seem to have found the solution to a wonderful marriage with your husband. This is a great thing for you and as long as you are happy with the situacion that is fine. I have to say though that the idea of your husband telling you to go to bed strikes me more as a parent/child type relationship than a husband/wife relationship.

I think that if one's husband treats her great and doesn't abuse/misuse her, then she naturally wants to do things for him and tends to be in agreement with her husband on most issues that arise and so it is easy for her to submit to him and his decisions. However if the husband is making a decision that the wife for good reason doesn't agree with, such as something that could harm/endanger her and he refuses to change his mind, then she needs to leave him.

In your relationship it sounds like your husband makes most all of the decisions and doesn't ask much of the time for your imput, but you are content and happy to go along with whatever he says. This is fine if it works for you, which it does. I don't think it goes against submission however to point out if your husband may not have looked at all aspects or if he is making a decision that you strongly disagree with and that he refuses to hear you on and you put your foot down. If he refuses to hear you at all, and you disagree and he says "no arguments, I don't want to hear it, this is it" then that is not treating you as an equal in the relationship, I see it as more controlling/dominating in a bad way because he refuses to listen to you at all. This is not acting Christ like at all.

Personally I think its important for a husband to consult his wife, or for her to have her say. If the husband refuses to hear her, and makes the decision anyways, that sounds a lot more like a parent/child relationship to me. Parents TELL their children what to do, when to go to bed, if they want to hear their say or not, and parents also make decisions without the consent of the child. This is what it sounds like to me is happening in your relationship. This is just what I see, and you may not agree with that which is fine.

 

[Redguard]

ibtl

 

[Galadriel]

ibtl

? huh?

 

[MERCY@GRACE]

Red-what's ibtl?

Anyway not to derail this-but I've heard men say in times past that they are attracted to asian women (not americanized asian women) bc they are subservient and don't talk back. I wonder if it's bc God ordained it where the man is the head, and there is an inate "domineering" quality that men have.

Most women are drawn to men w/ backbones (not wimps) and I wonder if most men are drawn to the submissive, soft spoken woman. Does it go back to how God made us uniquely different?

I don't know if I'd go as far as to say, if women don't submit, they are on the same level w/ a man struggling w/ porn. Unless a woman is out right defying her dh, or downgrading him (which has not been expressed here) I do not see any grave sin. When we make love,it's not me giving (unless i don't want to and i give sex sacrificially) it's both of us receiving.

 

[Leanna]

ibtl

one can only hope...

 

[Leanna]

Red-what's ibtl?

Anyway not to derail this-but I've heard men say in times past that they are attracted to asian women (not americanized asian women) bc they are subservient and don't talk back. I wonder if it's bc God ordained it where the man is the head, and there is an inate "domineering" quality that men have.

Most women are drawn to men w/ backbones (not wimps) and I wonder if most men are drawn to the submissive, soft spoken woman. Does it go back to how God made us uniquely different?

Hmmm when I think about why my husband was attracted to me, that was definitely not a quality he was looking for. Men have testosterone which can make them more aggressive or "domineering" ... some have more than others. I don't think it is because God made is so that men wanted women who don't talk back. :o My husband likes me the way I am... I am his helper and companion....

 

[Mrs. Enigma]

Bubba- Hmmm, now this is interesting, why can you not be co-heir with a child? my 6 year old is a Christian. Is he not able to be an heir because he is my child?

Christalee- why should a wife not be submissive when the Bible commands it?

Leanna_- Me giving my hubby sex makes you sad? Well, just try not to think about it.

I do agrre that my marriage has some aspects that seem like current child parent relationships.

 

[Galadriel]

Bubba- Hmmm, now this is interesting, why can you not be co-heir with a child? my 6 year old is a Christian. Is he not able to be an heir because he is my child?

You treat a 27 year old wife like a 27 year old wife, not like a 6 year old child.

 

[MERCY@GRACE]

Hmmm when I think about why my husband was attracted to me, that was definitely not a quality he was looking for. Men have testosterone which can make them more aggressive or "domineering" ... some have more than others. I don't think it is because God made is so that men wanted women who don't talk back. :o My husband likes me the way I am... I am his helper and companion....

Just wanted to see what others thought, not saying that's how it is, but we can't deny there are men that are drawn to timid non-fiesty women. And if that's the case, why?

Why do women not like the wimpy guys? Why do we set out to find a man that knows how to handle the reins and make decisions? Again this is just open for discussion, and I don't have a patent on anything.....just bored tonight

 

[InTheFlame]

Hi Mrs E - My issue with the parent-child aspect people have mentioned is that I struggle with grouchiness and snappiness on occasion. I don't rely on hubby's discipline. Instead, as an adult I look at the pain I'm causing him and make a conscious decision to modify my behaviour - and eventually get rid of the problem altogether. A child isn't capable of realising the effect they're having on someone and empathising. I am. So far, with God's help, I've isolated the causes of my grouchy/snappy moods, they happen about 25% as often as a year ago, and I handle things much better - warn hubby, and try to keep him 'safe' from my bad behaviour. If we handled the situation as it SOUNDS like you and your hubby do - me relying on him to send me to the bedroom if I'm getting too narky - I'd be making him take responsibility for my actions. I don't think that's a good thing.

 

[Leanna]

Just wanted to see what others thought, not saying that's how it is, but we can't deny there are men that are drawn to timid non-fiesty women. And if that's the case, why?

Why do women not like the wimpy guys? Why do we set out to find a man that knows how to handle the reins and make decisions? Again this is just open for discussion, and I don't have a patent on anything.....just bored tonight

You know... funny enough... they may not hang out at CF, but I think there are women who like wimpy guys, they just don't call it "wimpy"... I know two myself actually. These are women who like to make the decisions and be in charge..... so they find men who are okay with not making the decisions, naturally. So there are women who are attracted to "wimpy" guys.

As for your other question... why do we set out to find a man who knows how to handle the reins and make decisions? I don't think all of us do. Don't take this personally, but its not in my personality to seek someone who will make decisions and handle the reins because I don't feel that I am incapable of doing those things myself, so instead I "sought" (actually, randomly ran into) a man who was capable of holding his own but didn't have a need to take control and handle the reins, as it was said. I didn't want a wimp, but I didn't need someone to make decisions for me either. I am all about teamwork, we are a team, and I believe two heads are better than one.... yes even in decision making...

 

[MERCY@GRACE]

You know... funny enough... they may not hang out at CF, but I think there are women who like wimpy guys, they just don't call it "wimpy"... I know two myself actually. These are women who like to make the decisions and be in charge..... so they find men who are okay with not making the decisions, naturally. So there are women who are attracted to "wimpy" guys.

As for your other question... why do we set out to find a man who knows how to handle the reins and make decisions? I don't think all of us do. Don't take this personally, but its not in my personality to seek someone who will make decisions and handle the reins because I don't feel that I am incapable of doing those things myself, so instead I "sought" (actually, randomly ran into) a man who was capable of holding his own but didn't have a need to take control and handle the reins, as it was said. I didn't want a wimp, but I didn't need someone to make decisions for me either. I am all about teamwork, we are a team, and I believe two heads are better than one.... yes even in decision making...

I see what your saying, and maybe we've just been exposed to diff types of ppl. Remember the girls in HS always seemed to go for the 'bad guys' while the nice guys were left out in the cold lol? I never did go for the "bad boy" and never understood why many girls did,but I think it goes back to having a 'manly' bf and or the excitement. Dh definitely doesn't control me...heck he doesn't even know about all this 'submissiveness' the bible speaks of. I've used the analogy of being a team and having a team leader many times, and still feel (for me) if we were ever at a crossroads-I'd lead the decision up to him.

I am blessed tho, bc if dh knows I'm not on board w/ something, even if i say yes to try and please him....he won't make a move.