Covenant Theology vs. Dispensationalism

[FreeinChrist]

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Nope...Ive always stated it the same. You just dont seem to understand it.

Oh, I understand....I can see you are trying to be careful.

Peter had the gospel of the KINGDOM. He never preached the death, burial and resurrection as the means by which they would be saved. NEVER.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, {the} just for {the} unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
1Pe 3:19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits {now} in prison,
1Pe 3:20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through {the} water.
1Pe 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
1Pe 3:22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

ooops....you are wrong.

He told of the EVENT, but his gospel was "Repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins"...NOT believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. It hadnt happened yet, how could he preach that for Israels salvation? LOL LOL

Are you for real??? Why would they repent if they didn't beleive. Can't you put it together??
As for what Peter said:
Act 2:23 this {Man,} delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross (Christ crucified) by the hands of godless men and put {Him} to death.
Act 2:24 "But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power. (Christ's resurrection)


Act 2:32 "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses.
Act 2:33 "Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.
Act 2:38 Peter {said} to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

It is through the receiving of the Spirit that one is saved - cleansed, regenerated, born again.
PAUL agrees:

Tts 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Tts 3:6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tts 3:7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to {the} hope of eternal life.


Hmmmm...so Paul and Peter agree that Jesus died for our sin, was buried and rose again....and that He sends the Holy Spirit who regenerates us.
Think that in repenting, one is accepting the free gift of salvation which is by grace? I DO.

Honestly, Pauline dispen. is so ridiculous.

YEEEEEEES, the ONLY church (ie: called out assembly) that was in existance at THAT time was the KINGDOM church comprised ONLY OF JEWS!

Three churches mentioned in Scripture here, miss free. This isnt talking about the Church the Body of Christ as in Acts 2, the ONLY game in town was JUDAISM! The Body of Christ was STILL A MYSTERY, HID IN GOD, and KEPT SECRET since the world began, as scripture TELLS US!

So the Ethipian was a Jew?????? NO. So it came through Jews....it was always meant for the whole world through those who beleived - AS PAUL TEACHES:

Gal 3:8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, {saying,} "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."
Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.




Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Peter didnt preach the death of Christ as good news to the Jews...he preached to them a MURDER ENDICTMENT!

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, (does this sound like good news to them? LOL)and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

No...he preached the good news:
Act 2:23 this {Man,} delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross (Christ crucified) by the hands of godless men and put {Him} to death.
Act 2:24 "But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power. (Christ's resurrection)

Pauline dispensationalists are the ONLY ones who accept Gods REVELATION to Paul as OUR directions for today.

Are you trying to stroke Puffing yourself up? It is foolishness as there are many Christians who are NOT Pauline Dispensationists who accept what Paul says as directions. How silly to assume that only your little group does that, 'miss eph'.

Sorry you are so bitter towards Gods appointed spokesman to YOU...I hate to disappoint you, but Peter aint it!

From ego stroking to making false accusations....how pathetic and ignorant.

I have no problem with Paul and with scripture.....nor am I bitter as you so falsely assume.
What I do have a problem with is "Pauline Dispensationism" which is, IMHO, heretical in a number of it's claims. It gives Dispensationism a bad name as a result.

 

[eph3Nine]

The only thing you appear to have is a preconceived axe to grind with regard to dispensational theology and obvious reading comprehension difficulties. But thats OK. I trust that one day you will honestly look at what the scripture actually says so that you may understand what it means.

Have a great day.

 

[heymikey80]

@ TubaFour


My point would be, how do we have saved Gentiles? I thought all Gentiles become Jews according to your theology. I thought you had become a Jew. But you're saying that you are a saved Gentile, as opposed to the "THEM" (the others in this verse) who are Jews.
So at what point do Gentiles become Israel? If we have saved Gentiles who are in Christ, and you are one of the saved Gentiles, at what point does the becoming Israel thing fit in?

God Bless!

The point of becoming Israel has zilch to do with becoming a nation and government. It has everything to do with becoming what God struggles to complete in us, and what God praises. That's the nature of "Jew" and "Israel" as Paul sees it.

Of course Paul doesn't create some imaginary world where words don't have a common meaning. Gentiles aren't somehow required to become the same as nationalist Jews or Israel after their religious rites. That's actually Judaizing. Instead Paul is pointing out, the words are being misused in their common use. So he redefines them in his theology, to point out their misuse.

• Someone who's circumcised isn't externally cut, but internally.
• Someone who's a Jew (Hebrew, "praise") isn't externally a member of a nation of praise, but is internally pure, whose praise is from God.
• Someone who's from the Israel of God (Hebrew, struggles with God) is submitting to the struggle against sin and with God's Spirit.

 

[FreeinChrist]

The only thing you appear to have is a preconceived axe to grind with regard to dispensational theology and obvious reading comprehension difficulties. But thats OK. I trust that one day you will honestly look at what the scripture actually says so that you may understand what it means.

Have a great day.

AGAin...eph...I AM a dispensationist. What I am NOT is a Pauline dispie (AKA UltraDispie/HyperDispie/Acts 28 dispie/MidActs dispie).

And I read just fine...look in a mirror when you make your accusations about lack of understanding an when you question another's honesty. (How incredible that you think you can read other peoples minds....how foolish!) Better than making accusations...read the Bible starting with Genesis. It seems that you haven't got it right yet.

 

[ddub85]

@ Heymikey

The point of becoming Israel has zilch to do with becoming a nation and government.

--
Exd 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

It has everything to do with becoming what God struggles to complete in us, and what God praises. That's the nature of "Jew" and "Israel" as Paul sees it.

In "us" as Jews? Paul never says that! How can we ignore that fact?

Of course Paul doesn't create some imaginary world where words don't have a common meaning. Gentiles aren't somehow required to become the same as nationalist Jews or Israel after their religious rites. That's actually Judaizing. Instead Paul is pointing out, the words are being misused in their common use. So he redefines them in his theology, to point out their misuse.

But your theology says Gentiles actually become Jews, does it not? Paul never says such a thing. And that is the point I'm impressing upon you. YOU ARE NOT ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE. You seem to be saying that Paul makes you Jewish in some spiritual sense, but the Bible never says such a thing.

Someone who's circumcised isn't externally cut, but internally.
Someone who's a Jew (Hebrew, "praise") isn't externally a member of a nation of praise, but is internally pure, whose praise is from God.
Someone who's from the Israel of God (Hebrew, struggles with God) is submitting to the struggle against sin and with God's Spirit.

In all that you quote above, NONE of these verses ever say a Gentile becomes a Jew spiritually, nationally, physically, literally, figuratively, or any other way. Yet, your theology depends upon it. It's built around it. Your theology seems to be built around something that the Bible doesn't say.

Don't you find that a bit odd?

God Bless!

 

[heymikey80]

Exd 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Who's he talking to? Israel? Or Israel's children? Hm? Even in your paradigm they don't line up.

It has everything to do with becoming what God struggles to complete in us, and what God praises. That's the nature of "Jew" and "Israel" as Paul sees it.

In "us" as Jews? Paul never says that! How can we ignore that fact?

Paul does say that in Romans 2:26-29. You keep saying his doesn't. He does. He tells people who "call yourselves Jews" that "An outward Jew isn't one."

That's how I can't ignore that fact.

But your theology says Gentiles actually become Jews, does it not? Paul never says such a thing. And that is the point I'm impressing upon you. YOU ARE NOT ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE. You seem to be saying that Paul makes you Jewish in some spiritual sense, but the Bible never says such a thing.

In all that you quote above, NONE of these verses ever say a Gentile becomes a Jew spiritually, nationally, physically, literally, figuratively, or any other way. Yet, your theology depends upon it. It's built around it. Your theology seems to be built around something that the Bible doesn't say.

Your saying it doesn't make it so. Paul telling Jewish people this or not doesn't limit its focue. Circumcision is of the heart not flesh, an inward Jew is one. If circumcision includes Gentiles, so does inward Jewishness, "whose praise is not from men but from God."

The advantage of the [outward] Jew is that he is aware of these insights assured through the Scriptures. But that's not praise from God.

We're back full circle. You're denying a particular passage says what it explicitly says because you're implicitly limiting it solely to its audience (even though the examples are of Gentiles). I'm accepting what a particular passage says despite the fact that it isn't directed specifically for Gentiles.

I don't know how you assert that this is "ignoring Scripture". It's stated. Directly. The sole question is your assertion that it must be limited to the Jewish people Paul is directly addressing. The issue isn't ignoring Scripture: if anything my interpretation is applying Scripture, and it remains for you to explain how what Paul says really means anything if it's limited to Jews alone. Can no one but Jews bring praise from God? Why then the end of Chapter 2? "Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God."