Contemplation

[JimR-OCDS]

ontemplative prayer is the simplest expression of the mystery of prayer. It is a gift, a grace; it can be accepted only in humility and poverty. Contemplative prayer is a covenant relationship established by God within our hearts. Contemplative prayer is a communion in which the Holy Trinity conforms man, the image of God, to his likeness.
-Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2713

709 What is contemplative prayer? St. Teresa answers: "Contemplative prayer [oración mental] in my opinion is nothing else than a close sharing between friends; it means taking time frequently to be alone with him who we know loves us."6 Contemplative prayer seeks him "whom my soul loves."7 It is Jesus, and in him, the Father. We seek him, because to desire him is always the beginning of love, and we seek him in that pure faith which causes us to be born of him and to live in him. In this inner prayer we can still meditate, but our attention is fixed on the Lord himself.

2710 The choice of the time and duration of the prayer arises from a determined will, revealing the secrets of the heart. One does not undertake contemplative prayer only when one has the time: one makes time for the Lord, with the firm determination not to give up, no matter what trials and dryness one may encounter. One cannot always meditate, but one can always enter into inner prayer, independently of the conditions of health, work, or emotional state. The heart is the place of this quest and encounter, in poverty and in faith.

2711 Entering into contemplative prayer is like entering into the Eucharistic liturgy: we "gather up" the heart, recollect our whole being under the prompting of the Holy Spirit, abide in the dwelling place of the Lord which we are, awaken our faith in order to enter into the presence of him who awaits us. We let our masks fall and turn our hearts back to the Lord who loves us, so as to hand ourselves over to him as an offering to be purified and transformed.

More...

Jim

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I tried reading Thomas Merton. I really wanted to like him, boy was he boring. The idea of the Monastery and contemplative prayer are interesting, but Merton did not do it for me. I was looking for more spirit less navel staring.

 

[New Legacy]

I tried reading Thomas Merton. I really wanted to like him, boy was he boring. The idea of the Monastery and contemplative prayer are interesting, but Merton did not do it for me. I was looking for more spirit less navel staring.

Really? What did you read from him? What do you mean by navel staring?

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Really? What did you read from him? What do you mean by navel staring?

Thoughts in solitude. I found him boring.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Thoughts in solitude. I found him boring.

LOL, one of my favorites.


Jim

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Thomas Merton is great. So are Thomas Keating and Basil Pennington.

 

[St_Barnabus]

Thoughts in solitude. I found him boring.

I tried to read "Seeds of Contemplation" but this book was also, as you said, utterly boring, and I did not feel any inspiration from the Spirit whatsoever. That did it for me. No more Merton.

I had read Seven Story Mountain and was very inspired, but whatever happened to his spirit after that book needs a heavy adjustment.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The first time I tried to read "The Way of Perfection," by St Terese of Avila, I found it boring and didn't make sense.

I just wasn't ready for it at the time.


Ten years later when I first joined a Secular Order Discalced Carmelite group, I picked up the book again and it was awesome and I couldn't put it down.


I like Thomas Merton and Fr Thomas Keating's works.

I also love, "Into the Silent Land," by Fr Martin Laird.

But there are other books that cure insomnia for me.

I think it's just a matter of what the Lord sees as your need at the time.


Jim

 

[St_Barnabus]

The first time I tried to read "The Way of Perfection," by St Terese of Avila, I found it boring and didn't make sense.

I just wasn't ready for it at the time.

Ten years later when I first joined a Secular Order Discalced Carmelite group, I picked up the book again and it was awesome and I couldn't put it down.

I think it's just a matter of what the Lord sees as your need at the time.

Very true. I can't remember what stage of spirituality I had entered into when I read that book. But it was so bad, that I would not consider trying it again.

 

[StevenMerten]

I have felt the difference between regular prayer and, what it seems is being talked about, 'contemplative prayer'. What I will do is make sure I have the time and environment to do it properly. Then after praying for a while, I will pull spiritually pull myself out of the environment that I am in and place myself in the presence of God. I use the imaginary of rising my seances up into the clouds. Then I focus on regular conversation, questions and the like, as if I were kneeling right before God talking to Him. Then when disembarking contemplative prayer, I say thank you Father and pull myself back out of the presence of God and back down to earth to the environment that I am praying from. It is a very powerful form of prayer.

We are always putting ourselves before the Lord when we pray. However, I do believe that one can send themselves into a deeper, contemplative state of prayer.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

For myself, St John of the Cross was much better to read that St Terese's works.

Of course he was well educated where St Terese could read and write some Spanish, but she wasn't not able to read Scripture, for all translations of the Bible other than Classical Latin, were banned in 1500's Spain. So, she only heard Scripture Stories from those educated in Latin.


Also, the great spiritual works of her time were also banned by the Church in 1500's Spain.

This means that the experience in contemplation for both herself and St John of the Cross, came through experience alone, not what they read about it, for nothing was available to them.


Jim

 

[StevenMerten]

For myself, St John of the Cross was much better to read that St Terese's works.

Of course he was well educated where St Terese could read and write some Spanish, but she wasn't not able to read Scripture, for all translations of the Bible other than Classical Latin, were banned in 1500's Spain. So, she only heard Scripture Stories from those educated in Latin.

Also, the great spiritual works of her time were also banned by the Church in 1500's Spain.

This means that the experience in contemplation for both herself and St John of the Cross, came through experience alone, not what they read about it, for nothing was available to them.

Jim

Hello Jim,

Wow! How things have changed. I feel that the Lord hath given me the tremendous gift to speak in tongues, via Google translator. In our day, anyone, around the world, who has access to the internet, no longer has to worry about the barrier of language.

Here is a quote from my 'Warning! Jesus Does Not Forgive All! This chapter is almost all quotes from Jesus. Here it is, translated into Chinese, via, as I feel, the Holy Spirit, via Google translator, via the internet.

How far we have come from St. Terese' day. I just think modern Evangelization is so cool! I Love You, God! can be read in 81 different languages. Now if we can just convert the world to love God through obedience to God, through Jesus.

Google Tradutor

警告！ 耶穌不原諒所有

由史蒂芬莫頓

©版權所有2008
所有聖經的報價是來自新美國聖經 。
所有粗體，顏色和聖經的報價底線已被添加。
耶穌的話是紅色的。 聖經縮略語

NAB2太5:20

我告訴你，除非你的公義超過文士和法利賽人說， 你們不會進入天國 。 “你聽說過有人對你的祖先說：'不可殺人;和誰殺害將須作出判斷。”但我告訴你們，誰要是向弟兄動怒的，可被判判斷 ，誰給說他的弟弟，“Raqa，”將是要向公會，凡罵，“你這個傻瓜，” 可被判處火熱的地獄。

NAB2太6:15

但是，如果你不原諒別人， 也不將你們的天父饒恕你們的過犯。“停下來看，你可能無法判斷。對於你判斷，所以你會判斷，並與您測量的措施將被測量出來您。


NAB太7點13

如何縮小柵極和收縮，導致人生道路。 和那些誰找到它的人少。“你們要防備假先知，誰到你們這裡來羊皮，但骨子裡是殘暴的狼。 ​​憑著他們的果子，就可以認出他們來。人們是否選擇從荊棘葡萄，無花果從蒺藜？正是這樣，凡好樹都結好果子，壞樹結壞果子。好樹不能結壞果子，也不能壞樹結好果子。 凡不結好果子的樹，就砍下來，丟在火裡所以他們的果子，就可以認出他們來。“ 不是每個人都誰對我說：'主啊，主啊，' 將進入天國，但只有一個誰做在天上我父的旨意 。

NAB2太12:31

“所以，我告訴你們，人一切的罪和褻瀆的話會被原諒的人，惟獨褻瀆聖靈不得赦免和誰說話干犯人子的一個字將被赦免。但無論誰說話抵擋聖靈會不會被原諒，無論是在這個年齡或年齡來。

NAB太12:33

“要么宣告樹好，果子好，或宣布該樹腐爛，它的果實是爛的，對於一個樹果子就可以知道，毒蛇的種類，你怎麼能說很好的東西時，你是邪惡的？對於從心臟的豐滿的嘴說，一個優秀的人帶來了利好出盡善良的一家商店，而是一個邪惡的人帶來了邪惡了邪惡的商店。我告訴你，在判斷人的日子要報帳對於每一個無心快語，他們說。憑你的話定你為義，也要憑你的話定你有罪。“

NAB2 MAT 12時42分

“在判決南方的女王會出現這世代的罪，因為她從地極而來，要聽所羅門的智慧，有一些人比所羅門更大此處。

NAB太13:24

他提出另一個比喻對他們說。“天國可以比作一個人誰在他的領域播下好種子，雖然大家都睡著了仇敵來，將稗子撒全部通過小麥，然後去了，當作物生長並結出了果實，雜草出現為好。戶主的奴隸來到他的面前，說：'主啊，你不是撒好種在田裡嗎？哪裡有雜草從何而來？“ 他回答說，這是仇敵作的。 他的奴隸對他說，'你要我們去薅出來嗎？ 他回答說，'不，如果你拔雜草你可能剷除小麥與他們一起讓他們一起成長，直到收穫;然後在收割的時候，我會說的收割機，首先收集雜草和出來，捆成捆的燃燒但是收集小麥倉裡'“。


​

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Some one will have to explain what Steve posted.

I haven't a clue what he's trying to say.

Jim

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Has Steve been sampling the wine again?
I am on my 3rd beer, worked all night and off to bed after supper. I am too weary to articulate a coherent thought. For those who think 3 beers is a lot. I am Irish American, 3 beers is just enough to take the edge off. Wine with supper.

 

[Irenaeus]

Hi Jim!

For myself, St John of the Cross was much better to read that St Terese's works.

Of course he was well educated where St Terese could read and write some Spanish, but she wasn't not able to read Scripture, for all translations of the Bible other than Classical Latin, were banned in 1500's Spain. So, she only heard Scripture Stories from those educated in Latin.

Also, the great spiritual works of her time were also banned by the Church in 1500's Spain.

St. Teresa of Avila was in fact educated to some extent, as she was of a house of minor nobility. She could read at least some Ecclesiastical Latin, because she daily was committed to the recitation of the Psalter.

That being said, she was very much akin to John of the Cross both in their spiritual vision but also in their common intellectual formation. They were both very Thomistic in their training.

 

[StevenMerten]

Some one will have to explain what Steve posted.

I haven't a clue what he's trying to say.

Jim

Hello Jim,

You had made the comment that St. Teresa did not have access to scriptures due to language barriers. I was making the point that today, anyone who can read and has access to the internet, has access to scriptures; the language barrier no longer exists or at least will very soon be totally eradicated. I was saying times have changed greatly due to the internet.

Contemplative prayer is good, but it does not come close to having access to our Lord's words in scripture.

 

[bmjackson]

For myself, St John of the Cross was much better to read that St Terese's works.

Of course he was well educated where St Terese could read and write some Spanish, but she wasn't not able to read Scripture, for all translations of the Bible other than Classical Latin, were banned in 1500's Spain. So, she only heard Scripture Stories from those educated in Latin.


Also, the great spiritual works of her time were also banned by the Church in 1500's Spain.

This means that the experience in contemplation for both herself and St John of the Cross, came through experience alone, not what they read about it, for nothing was available to them.


Jim

Hi Jim, I adore John X too and have been greatly helped by Ascent and Dark Night. Lately I attended a Secular Order Discalced Carmelite group and am thinking of converting so that I can join them. Won't John have received teachings on Medieval Mysticism? Also can you tell me more about the via Triplex? Thanks

Brenda

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Hi Jim!



St. Teresa of Avila was in fact educated to some extent, as she was of a house of minor nobility. She could read at least some Ecclesiastical Latin, because she daily was committed to the recitation of the Psalter.

That being said, she was very much akin to John of the Cross both in their spiritual vision but also in their common intellectual formation. They were both very Thomistic in their training.

According to The Collected Works of St. Teresa of Avila, Vol. 1 [Teresa of Avila, Otilio Rodriguez, Otilio Rodriguez, Kieran Kavanaugh, in the introduction, they author Kiernan Kavenaugh wrote that because not translation of Scripture other than Classical Latin were allowed in 1500's Spain, St Teresa would not have been able to read the Bible.

I agree, spiritually, she is not only akin to St John of the Cross, but brought him into contemplative prayer to begin with.

However, her writing style is what I'm referring to. She herself admits that she's not good at explaining herself in written word.

She tends to go off on tangents and loses some readers before getting back to the point.

John of the Cross is more systematic.

Anyway, the members of my OCDS group generally preferred St John of the Cross' works.


Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Hello Jim,

You had made the comment that St. Teresa did not have access to scriptures due to language barriers. I was making the point that today, anyone who can read and has access to the internet, has access to scriptures; the language barrier no longer exists or at least will very soon be totally eradicated. I was saying times have changed greatly due to the internet.

Contemplative prayer is good, but it does not come close to having access to our Lord's words in scripture.

Actually, contemplative prayer is the deepest form of prayer, according to St Teresa of Avila.

St John of the Cross says that at our deepest center is where God is.



Reading Scripture and Praying Contemplatively with Scripture are very much different and the hidden mysteries of Scripture are revealed in contemplative prayer.



Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Hi Jim, I adore John X too and have been greatly helped by Ascent and Dark Night. Lately I attended a Secular Order Discalced Carmelite group and am thinking of converting so that I can join them. Won't John have received teachings on Medieval Mysticism? Also can you tell me more about the via Triplex? Thanks

Brenda

Not sure of your questions, I never heard "Via Triplex," before. Please explain.


Anyway, St John of the Cross was a trained Carmelite Priest, so he did have access to Holy Scripture and the rites of the Church for that time.

However, from my reading the spiritual classics from the Desert Fathers of the East were banned. The authors say St Teresa did not have access to these writings, and St John probably didn't as well.

This was during the Spanish Inquisition and things were very difficult for people living a contemplative life.

Also, St John of the Cross was placed under house arrest by his own religious order, so I doubt he had access to writings which were not approved by the Bishop of his time.

BTW, good to see you're looking into the OCDS group.

My wife and myself have been isolated for about 10 years now as our group disbanded due to lack of members.

God Bless
Jim