Church of God, Cleveland Tn.

[TwistrAndy]

You are right Paul's statements are clear and to the point that's why it perfectly clear. No matter how much you study the issue it's still gonna say the same thing. In Timothy it is stated that ALL scriptures are for our benefit. Both scriptures indicate no jewelry, so don't wear it. These scriptures unlike some scriptures in Revelations are not hard to understand. They are easy, and word-for-word. It's kinda like a drunkard in this situation. He's not gonna like the parts about getting drunk, and'll try to change and twist it or come up with some excuse to keep on drinking and keep his security. Same thing, people who wear jewelry aren't going to like the "no-jewelry" parts, they are gonna try to come up with an excuse or some other reason, why they should be able to continue. And where you said its the inner man and not the outer man, that's exactly right, our greatness is to be on this inside, not on the outside, that's why we aren't to wear great things, that cost great amounts. One of the things these scriptures tell us that wearing jewelry is a form of pride. No matter how much you deny it, are you not proud to have expensive clothing and jewelry, if not then why do you wear it? Everytime you see someone showing off their new ring one of the first questions asked is "Is it real?" The point Paul is adressing in Peter and Timothy, is that we should not use these things or adorning ourselves in these things because those things are the opposite of humility, we are to be plain, and let our greatness be hidden in the heart. Everytime I read those chapters where the verses are contained, I get the same answer, and I don't know how anybody could get anything different when they read it because it's so easy to understand. But some people who love their jewelry so much will go to any excuse to keep it on. I think it's sad that people who still read what the Bible says on the issue still ignore it, but fuss at everyone else for drinking, smoking, and other things which are condemned in the scripture, maybe I better read more into getting drunk and witchcraft too, because even though it's so obvious it's to have no place in my life, it might mean something different than what it says, let me go spend an hour studying something that's so obvious.

 

[Bruce101]

Smoking and drinking are sins?

Are you sure?
Bruce

 

[mickd7]

I agree. We shouldn't be PC, but we shouldn't be legalistic, either. Let me ask you this: do you think it should be preached that if you don't dress a certain way, you shouldn't come into the church, or do you think that it should be preached that if you love God, you'll act and dress in modesty and humility? This is where I'm looking at the legalism from.

It is the pastor's duty to preach the bible and teach the disciple. If his congregation isn't hearing and learning, then the pastor needs to reflect upon


himself.

We are not saved by legalism i.e what type clothes you wear, hair or any of that . We are saved only by faith in Jesus Christ and his atoning blood. When we are born again we should learn how to live the christian life and that includes holiness which is a pastor and leadership job. Unfortunately they are not preaching right living as they should and just let things go so people will not leave along with their money. This is what I disagree with. I say preach the truth and enforce things and speak out against things that are wrong. People can be corrected if done lovingly and respecfully. Fat Eagle.

 

[mickd7]

Holiness - the quality of being holy (set apart, sanctified, consecrated)
THIS IS NOT AN OPTION!!!
Holiness - belief in the extreme modest dress in men, but mostly women (long hair only, long dresses only, long sleeves only)
THIS IS AN OPTION!!!

I personally believe that women should have long hair because their hair is their glory but how long is up to them as long as it is not bobbed and looks like a man and a man is said to be shameful if his hair is long which means he should not look like a woman. I also believe a church should not allow gym wear, shorts, or tight fitting clothes, short dresses or halters etc with mid drief showing. If I was a pastor I would not allow this and I would post it in the church and ask folks to dress modestly.
If they did not I would hand them a covering when they came in ( to people who should know better) and have a godly woman speak to them for they may just be ignorant. Fat Eagle.

 

[TwistrAndy]

ummm.... yep I'm pretty sure they are! The Bible says that our temple is his, so it would be a sin to stain it with smoke, addict it to nicotine, kill it with lung cancer, or liver cirrhosis from alchohol, and getting drunk is definently a sin, unless all those scriptures mean something else? You tell me, do they mean something else, or do they mean what they say?

 

[Adammi]

It is a sin to dress like a harlot. In biblical days that meant short hair and jewlery. In modern days I think you know what it means.

 

[TwistrAndy]

The Bible says that a womens hair is her power her glory, and because of the ANGELS a women ought to have power on her head, not so she wouldn't look like a prostitute. And where does Timothy and Peter says not to wear jewelry so you won't look like a prostitute, it says the women who profess godliness do not wear these things, but adorn themselves with a meek and quite spirit, not so they won't look like a prostitute. We can't twist the Bible, or make suggestions as to what something means, that isn't even written. If Women needed long hair to keep from looking like a prostitute, then Paul would've said "If you cut your hair you'll look like a harlot, don't do it". But, in those scriptures, no where is a prostitute even mentioned. It just simply tells us that we are not to do it. Why does the Bible say it's a shame for men to have long hair? Were there male-prostitutes there that had long hair? It is written for distinction to be made between a male and female, not because of prostitutes.

 

[Bruce101]

ummm.... yep I'm pretty sure they are! The Bible says that our temple is his, so it would be a sin to stain it with smoke, addict it to nicotine, kill it with lung cancer, or liver cirrhosis from alchohol, and getting drunk is definently a sin, unless all those scriptures mean something else? You tell me, do they mean something else, or do they mean what they say?

Okay. What does the Bible actually say regarding drinking?

And what verses are inferring to apply to smoking.

I know that you know there are no verses regarding smoking and therefore an inference needs to be made.
That in of itself is not a bad thing, however it must be done correctly.
I want to know where you pull it from?
Rather than me tell you, I want you to tell me.

Bruce

 

[Adammi]

The Bible says that a womens hair is her power her glory, and because of the ANGELS a women ought to have power on her head, not so she wouldn't look like a prostitute. And where does Timothy and Peter says not to wear jewelry so you won't look like a prostitute, it says the women who profess godliness do not wear these things, but adorn themselves with a meek and quite spirit, not so they won't look like a prostitute. We can't twist the Bible, or make suggestions as to what something means, that isn't even written. If Women needed long hair to keep from looking like a prostitute, then Paul would've said "If you cut your hair you'll look like a harlot, don't do it". But, in those scriptures, no where is a prostitute even mentioned. It just simply tells us that we are not to do it. Why does the Bible say it's a shame for men to have long hair? Were there male-prostitutes there that had long hair? It is written for distinction to be made between a male and female, not because of prostitutes.

If you are convicted to have long hair and wear a dress then do it.

 

[TwistrAndy]

1 Corinthian 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of the Lord dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

To me this verse says that we are not to defile our bodies with things such as (but not limited to) smoking, and all who defile the temple of God, God shall destroy, which is eventually what happens when you smoke your whole life. You get lung cancer, your put on oxygen, you could die. If this isn't defiling our bodies then I don't know what is. I don't think people in the bible where running around with a pack of Marlboro's in their pocket, or addicted to nicotine, or the Bible would've said something about it. So, I told you where I draw this inference from.

Drinking Alchohol isn't good either. It leads to drunkenness, addiction, death, behavior changes, it could cause others with past drinking problems to stumble or relapse. I would quote scripture against drunkenness but there are so many I wouldn't know where to begin, and every Christian knows that drunkenness is wrong.

and AT,

what i'm trying to say is that, everyone should be convicted of it. I do not understand "personal convictions" it is a term used in the holiness church too, but I still don't understand it, we should all have the same convictions because we are reading from the same Bible. That's all I'm trying to say. and I don't want anyone to think I'm mad or upset or angry with them, because I'm not. But, when my beliefs are brought into question or discredited, I am ready to stand up for them.

 

[Adammi]

1 Corinthian 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of the Lord dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

To me this verse says that we are not to defile our bodies with things such as (but not limited to) smoking, and all who defile the temple of God, God shall destroy, which is eventually what happens when you smoke your whole life. You get lung cancer, your put on oxygen, you could die. If this isn't defiling our bodies then I don't know what is. I don't think people in the bible where running around with a pack of Marlboro's in their pocket, or addicted to nicotine, or the Bible would've said something about it. So, I told you where I draw this inference from.

Drinking Alchohol isn't good either. It leads to drunkenness, addiction, death, behavior changes, it could cause others with past drinking problems to stumble or relapse. I would quote scripture against drunkenness but there are so many I wouldn't know where to begin, and every Christian knows that drunkenness is wrong.

and AT,

what i'm trying to say is that, everyone should be convicted of it. I do not understand "personal convictions" it is a term used in the holiness church too, but I still don't understand it, we should all have the same convictions because we are reading from the same Bible. That's all I'm trying to say. and I don't want anyone to think I'm mad or upset or angry with them, because I'm not. But, when my beliefs are brought into question or discredited, I am ready to stand up for them.

Read Romans 14 regarding personal convictions.
Reagarding Modesty in Dress, I have no problem with people being convicted to wear long dress etc., but I do have a problem with it being forced on others because if anybody seems to be arguementitive about this matter of clothes and hair, we shouldn't even have such a teaching because it brings division.

 

[TwistrAndy]

Nothing is forced on anybody, first of all, because you choose the church you go to. If you don't like the church your in, no one is threatening you for leaving, or not joining. We have to have this "teaching" because it's in the Bible. It shouldn't be bringing division because everybody should be adhering to it, and reading it, and taking the Bible as a whole, and not just some things here and there. Why would you have a problem with something that the Bible teaches? Anyways, I'am tired of arguing back and forth, if all we are going to do is argue back and forth, then I'm just going to quit posting. I've made my point known well enough, and you know I have, and if you still can't accept parts of the Bible it will rest on your own conscience. Let's get back to what this thread was originally started for, the fellowship of the COG members.

P.S Also is no jewelry and make-up expressed in the Bible, it is also in the COG doctrine, because it was in that post that you posted which contained the COG Pratical Commitments.How bout this: read the scriptures that I was talking about (or read them in my posts) and then tell me what you think they mean.

 

[Hadron]

I think we should all go back to wearing togas and such. That was the dress of the day back then and is obviously what Paul was referring to.

 

[TwistrAndy]

Since when does jewelry of gold, silver and pearls take the form of a toga?

 

[Adammi]

Nothing is forced on anybody, first of all, because you choose the church you go to. If you don't like the church your in, no one is threatening you for leaving, or not joining. We have to have this "teaching" because it's in the Bible. It shouldn't be bringing division because everybody should be adhering to it, and reading it, and taking the Bible as a whole, and not just some things here and there. Why would you have a problem with something that the Bible teaches? Anyways, I'am tired of arguing back and forth, if all we are going to do is argue back and forth, then I'm just going to quit posting. I've made my point known well enough, and you know I have, and if you still can't accept parts of the Bible it will rest on your own conscience. Let's get back to what this thread was originally started for, the fellowship of the COG members.

P.S Also is no jewelry and make-up expressed in the Bible, it is also in the COG doctrine, because it was in that post that you posted which contained the COG Pratical Commitments.How bout this: read the scriptures that I was talking about (or read them in my posts) and then tell me what you think they mean.

but I do have a problem with it being forced on others because if anybody seems to be arguementitive about this matter of clothes and hair, we shouldn't even have such a teaching because it brings division.

I worded it a little different as to see if you agreed or not because it is right out of the bible. [bible]1 Corinthians 11:16[/bible]

 

[Adammi]

But who cares, your my brother and I love you. And why should we argue?

 

[TwistrAndy]

We shouldn't argue. I don't have hard feelings towards you or anybody.

One more P.S,

That statement talks about hair, that's why our church allows women to cut their hair (but not bobbed off, like a man) but, many women still refuse to cut their hair, the hair issue is something I believe in, so I stand up for it. But, you can't use that verse for jewelry because it's not there.

 

[Hadron]

Since when does jewelry of gold, silver and pearls take the form of a toga?

Sorry, I wasn't being literal.

 

[TwistrAndy]

oh, ok, I'm sorry then. Everyone is being so literal so I thought you where being literal too. whoops.

 

[Bruce101]

1 Corinthian 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of the Lord dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

I agree with you. Smoking does indeed defile the temple. Do you have any other examples of what defiles the temple?


Drinking Alchohol isn't good either. It leads to drunkenness, addiction, death, behavior changes, it could cause others with past drinking problems to stumble or relapse. I would quote scripture against drunkenness but there are so many I wouldn't know where to begin, and every Christian knows that drunkenness is wrong.

That last sentence is correct. Drunkenness is a sin. However, drinking is not. The key here is moderation.

The below are the Biblical requirements for the office off Bishop (Pastor)
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous

I am not sure what "given to wine" means. It may mean not to have any at all, or it may mean not to let it control you. However, let us see what the Biblical requirement is for a deacon.

1Ti 3:8 ¶ Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

You can read that to say that a deacon must not drink to much wine, not that they cannot drink any wine.

And the ladies in church...
*** 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

However, after saying all of that, if you feel that you should not drink then by all means don't. But let us not say that we are not under the law, and then make up laws of our own, replacing the ones that God did give.

Please do not think that I am being argumentive. I learn most when I speak to people that disagree with me, and I expect that others may also learn that way because it makes a person evaluate what and why they believe and sends them to the scriptures to back it up, and that is a good thing.
"IRON SHARPENETH IRON"
BTW, I do want to know what else you think defiles the temple.

Bruce