Christian wearing niqab & hijab etc

[Tiny Bible]

Being it is a Judeo-Christian tradition that Christian women belong to, I think we'd have to consider how the ancient Hebrew women attired themselves.

Hebrew women and their faith and attire predates that of the Muslim women of old. As did the new Christians in first century after Christ.
I think if a Christian woman wishes to dress herself in a hijab she's perfectly entitled. In fact it's no more odd than other Christian sects that wear something to cover their head. Amish, Mennonite, and others.
It certainly isn't copying the Islamic tradition. Rather, they're copying the Jewish and early Christian tradition in the sense of wearing the hijab.

 

[Locutus]

Thank you for the answers.
It would be worn in the west, not forced, and the reason would be modesty/hiding the body/hair or face because one think that so is good to do and it gives respect to her husband for example.

how does it 'give respect to her husband'?

 

[Locutus]

I don't see much difference between a wimple and a hijab.

that's because there is no difference. these are cultural clothing issues, not religious ones.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

As a Christian I believe we should never do, say or ware anything that would suggest we support, believe, or are involved with any thing that is not Christian. If a shirt has a satanic symbol I think its wrong to ware it. The same for Christian women waring garb that is identified with Islam, Muslim woman's clothing.

I suppose if Jesus were present and saw you warring it what do you think He would say? I believe He be disappointed and say take it off NOW.

And just what is “Christian clothing”? 1st century Jewish Middle eastern? That IS what Jesus wore after all…

 

[farout]

And just what is “Christian clothing”? 1st century Jewish Middle eastern? That IS what Jesus wore after all…

I am rather supprised you asked that. If any religious person be it A Jew, Muslim, Hindi, or a Christian deliberately wares an article of clothing that is meant to deceive or make others think they belong to a group that they do not, that is wrong. But even worse for a Christian which has for their basic doctrine to be openly truthful in Jesus Christ.

 

[Rajni]

As a Christian I believe we should never do, say or ware anything that would suggest we support, believe, or are involved with any thing that is not Christian. If a shirt has a satanic symbol I think its wrong to ware it. The same for Christian women waring garb that is identified with Islam, Muslim woman's clothing.

I suppose if Jesus were present and saw you warring it what do you think He would say? I believe He be disappointed and say take it off NOW.

On the contrary, I think he'd say "Wow, that looks quite
similar to what we wore back in them 'bible times'."

those are cultural attire. Muslims don't have to wear those clothing. They just get confused between culture and religion.

that's because there is no difference. these are cultural clothing issues, not religious ones.

Thank you both for clarifying this point. I was going to ask
about whether or not the hijab, like, say, the Indian
sari (something else I'd love to wear!) is part of the secular
culture and not strictly religious attire.
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I'm fine with people that want to wear everything but niqab. I think niqab is a way to dehumanize and separate people. There is something seriously wrong and disordered about keeping someone faceless.

I agree. And actually, the niqab has things backwards. If
they're trying to hide what's most valuable about the
person, it should be the eyes, rather than everything else
but the eyes. The eyes are the window to the soul after
all. The soul is the most valuable aspect of a person. So, if
anything, sunglasses should be the required attire, and
everything else optional. Well, maybe not everything else...
such an absolute-inverse-niqab might be a bit awkward in
public.

I am rather supprised you asked that. If any religious person be it A Jew, Muslim, Hindi, or a Christian deliberately wares an article of clothing that is meant to deceive or make others think they belong to a group that they do not, that is wrong. But even worse for a Christian which has for their basic doctrine to be openly truthful in Jesus Christ.

Well, as we've learned just in this thread alone, hijabs
are not strictly Muslim articles of clothing. Once one knows
this, one will hopefully not jump to hasty conclusions about
those who wear them. Such persons aren't being "deceived",
but rather assumptive.

And no one can "make" another think anything. Our
thoughts are our own responsibility.

The more mainstream an article of clothing becomes, the
less easy it will be to make assumptions about the person
based on that item. For example, nowadays no one
assumes I'm a guy because I wear pants, even though
there was once a time when pants were strictly a man's
article of clothing.

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[dzheremi]

The problem is not in wearing the headcovering or not wearing it (at least outside of church). The problem is in this western mentality of "Oh my goodness! The piety and beauty of the Muslims!" or whatever. There is nothing holy to learn from the Christ-deniers of Islam. Authentic Orthodox Christian tradition upholds headcovering, and has done so since before Islam or Muhammad ever existed. Stop imitating the haters of God and start looking to Christian women, if you are a Christian. There is plenty of modesty here. No need to look elsewhere.

Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo

Not for nothing, men also dress similarly in their own long shawls in the Ethiopian church, though I can't remember the name that their garment has (I'm not entirely sure, but I think it's different than what they call the women's, which is netela).

Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo men and women at the ceremonial footwashing in Jerusalem's Old City

Coptic Orthodox

Armenian Orthodox

Malankara Syriac Orthodox (Indian)

None of these churches' traditions have anything to do with what the followers of Islam do or don't do.

 

[Te're'sa]

casual mention of a nun's habit and headdress (Catholicism), although some orders of nuns may choose not to wear them.

 

[jen76]

how does it 'give respect to her husband'?

For example that she covers herself entirely, so no other men could see her form and hair or even face except the husband and for example her father (depending on whether she wears niqab or hijab). She could say that she does this as a respect to her husband.

The headcovering can also be a sign of submission to god and her husband, also showing the order of headship.
In the bible it talks about how covering the woman's head gives glory to her husband and so on in
1 Corinthians 11:3–16

This is one site that promotes the headcovering.
http://www.headcoveringmovement.com/

This is just my thought about this.

 

[jen76]

Of course the woman could cover hear head in the style of christians, but most christian headcovering don't cover the head and hair entirely and if she would not like anything to be shown except face and the hands, then what's the solution? Atleast covering as a nun isn't an option..

But if she wears a niqab, then there isn't any christian versions to be found of that nowadays i think.

Many people think that those clothes represent islam, but i think that they can also represent just covering oneself from people's eyes.

There are also christians in the middle-east who cover theirselves in hijabs and other clothings which are usually worn by muslims, so that's one thing to think about.

 

[Rajni]

The problem is not in wearing the headcovering or not wearing it (at least outside of church). The problem is in this western mentality of "Oh my goodness! The piety and beauty of the Muslims!" or whatever. There is nothing holy to learn from the Christ-deniers of Islam. Authentic Orthodox Christian tradition upholds headcovering, and has done so since before Islam or Muhammad ever existed. Stop imitating the haters of God and start looking to Christian women, if you are a Christian. There is plenty of modesty here. No need to look elsewhere.

Again, as has already been mentioned, the hijab is not a
religious item, but a cultural one. It's no more a "Christ-
denying Islamic" item than cowboy-boots would be an "Allah-
denying Christian" item, or denim jeans a "Krishna-denying
Pastafarian" item.

So, no religious tribalism necessary in this instance.

-

 

[dzheremi]

The OP specifically refers to them as "Islamic clothing" and says "I'm interested to know the opinion of people about a christian woman covering herself in the style of muslim women", so whether they're considered religious or cultural, the context in which the OP is considering them is clear.

And 'religious tribalism', my foot. The OP is a Christian, and Islam is a non-Christian religion. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying that there's no need to look outside of one's own religion for examples of modest clothing, nor with saying that Islam denies God, which it does by denying the divinity of Christ and the worship of the Holy Trinity (assuming of course that the OP is a Trinitarian, which the vast majority of Christians are, so this is Christian theology 101).

And it's highly amusing that you would include that snide comment at the end of a post highlighting the cultural use of the hijab while calling cowboy boots an "Allah-denying item" (especially when the entire point of the post is to say "it's good to dress this way, but it's bad to give the credit for that to islam, instead of imitating Christian women, as a Christian, since Islam does not have a monopoly on modest dress"), as though Christians haven't been speaking Arabic and hence praying to Allah (الأب والإبن والروح القدس +) since long before Islam was ever created. But perhaps Islam has more proprietary rights to 'Allah' than the hijab, somehow...despite following both by many centuries...

 

[dzheremi]

Of course the woman could cover hear head in the style of christians, but most christian headcovering don't cover the head and hair entirely and if she would not like anything to be shown except face and the hands, then what's the solution?

The Ethiopian style shown in the post does. Also Russian 'Old Believers' (Eastern Orthodox Christians opposed to the Nikonian reforms of the 17th century) apparently do, as below:

Atleast covering as a nun isn't an option..

None of the images I posted are of nuns. Headcovering is the norm in all Oriental Orthodox churches, and from what I understand most Eastern Orthodox as well (though apparently some in America are pretty lax about it). At my old parish (Coptic Orthodox), there was actually a big sign above the door outlining the rules for communion in English and Arabic, and one of them was "women must cover their heads in the church". When a woman or girl showed up late, one of the other women would give her a head covering from a big basket off to the side so that she could cover up. Any uncovered woman would be denied communion (though I never saw this happen while I was there, since everyone covered properly).

But if she wears a niqab, then there isn't any christian versions to be found of that nowadays i think.

Clement of Alexandria (d. 215 AD) mentions face covering of this type in Egypt, and it was also apparently found in Arabia, Persia, and perhaps some parts of the Indian subcontinent, all long before Islam. Why it fell out of favor, I don't know. It was not uncommon to find women dressed this way during the Ottoman period in Egypt regardless of their religious affiliation, which probably explains why Copts don't do it today. But I've seen old pictures and drawings of Coptic women from the 19th century dressed this way.

Many people think that those clothes represent islam, but i think that they can also represent just covering oneself from people's eyes.

Of course. And that was the point of my post: It's not wrong to do in and of itself. It's somewhat murkier if the motivation for doing it is in imitation of Islam if you are not a Muslim, in the same way that some Christians I have known will fast for "Ramadan", but not according to any Christian calendar. And generally when it's pointed out that Oriental Christian fasting traditions are much more strict (we in the Coptic Church fast for over 200 days a year, for instance), these people for some reason react negatively to that. "Oh, but that's some obscure thing...nobody really does that these days..." (yes we do), etc. It's like...well, that's an indisputably Christian tradition. If you still want to follow a non-Christian tradition instead, that's on you, but the idea that Islam is somehow this pinnacle of modesty or asceticism or whatever is absolutely bonkers, in addition to driving well-meaning people away from their religion in imitation of another, when it's really not necessary in the first place. Ditto the praying five times a day (the customary prayer of the Coptic Orthodox Church is seven times a day), or most other religious practices Christian people think of as being especially "Islamic" in any kind of positive sense.

There are also christians in the middle-east who cover theirselves in hijabs and other clothings which are usually worn by muslims, so that's one thing to think about.

Yes, the Coptic, Syriac Orthodox, Malankara Orthodox, Tewahedo, Armenian, and other people I posted are found throughout the Middle East (sometimes natively, sometimes as diaspora populations), and they dress that way. Again, it is not in imitation of Muslims. It is within their own Christian traditions to dress this way, at least with hijab if not the others.

 

[Rajni]

The OP specifically refers to them as "Islamic clothing" and says "I'm interested to know the opinion of people about a christian woman covering herself in the style of muslim women", so whether they're considered religious or cultural, the context in which the OP is considering them is clear.

To be more accurate, she said: "I'm interested to know the
opinion of people about a christian woman covering herself
in the style of muslim women or clothing similiar to
biblical times." There's really barely any difference. Let's
put it this way, if someone doesn't want to look anything
like those living that culture, then one doesn't want to look
like a Christian living in biblical times either. I would think
that the similarity would disturb them, if, indeed, that
general look is too "Muslimy" for them.

And 'religious tribalism', my foot. The OP is a Christian, and Islam is a non-Christian religion. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying that there's no need to look outside of one's own religion for examples of modest clothing, nor with saying that Islam denies God, which it does by denying the divinity of Christ and the worship of the Holy Trinity (assuming of course that the OP is a Trinitarian, which the vast majority of Christians are, so this is Christian theology 101).

Again, it's a misunderstanding that the attire in question is
culturally-based, not religiously-based. The OP likely now
understands this, having read the posts here articulating
that.

And it's highly amusing that you would include that snide comment at the end of a post highlighting the cultural use of the hijab while calling cowboy boots an "Allah-denying item" (especially when the entire point of the post is to say "it's good to dress this way, but it's bad to give the credit for that to islam, instead of imitating Christian women, as a Christian, since Islam does not have a monopoly on modest dress"), as though Christians haven't been speaking Arabic and hence praying to Allah (الأب والإبن والروح القدس +) since long before Islam was ever created. But perhaps Islam has more proprietary rights to 'Allah' than the hijab, somehow...despite following both by many centuries...

Not snide at all, but the truth. Sorry if it touched a nerve.

My point is that there's no more of a religious affiliation with
cowboy-boots than there is with hijabs.

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[dzheremi]

I feel like we're talking past each other, Chaela. I am 100% in agreement with you on the point that the hijab or other head covering is not exclusive to Islam in any essential way (if it were, I wouldn't be able to post any of the stuff I already have). My point is only that the impulse itself is not wrong (obviously, as I've already written, women cover their heads in my own church with hijab, so we don't have problem with it, or view it as anything Islamic). What is wrong is when Christians -- primarily Western Christians with no experience of Middle Eastern, African, etc. cultures and their indigenous forms of Christianity -- see it as an "Islamic" thing, and to be imitated as an Islamic thing when it really isn't.

 

[JackRT]

As a Christian man I regard the hijab to be an elegant garment for any woman who so chooses. Just a few centuries ago European women of the upper classes wore a wimple and frequently even a veil. If we want to know how women dressed in biblical times we need only look to rural Afghanistan or another Muslim nation.

 

[jen76]

When i said that "in the style of muslim women" i just meant the clothing that you can usually see them wearing on the streets.
I didn't say that it's originally islamic thing or that they all wear those clothes.
The idea is not to imitate muslims, but to cover oneself just, whether it is the clothing that you can see them usually using or something else similiar.
The look is pretty much similiar anyway, as we can see from the pictures of covered christians in the pictures above.
Here also more pictures to show the similiarity.
Muslim women

Christian Orthodox women or nuns

Muslim men

And if it's assumed that the clothes were something like this in bible times..

I don't see very much difference. Both are loose and covering the body.

Question is: what do people think about these kind of coverings worn nowadays?
I am bible-believing christian, so yes i believe to the trinity.

 

[dzheremi]

It probably depends on what type of person you're asking. It's been quite a few years since I saw any Roman Catholic nuns out and about, and I doubt I'm the only one. Western Christianity in general is declining, so this level of religiousity (whether it's Christian, Islamic, or whatever) is probably not usual for most people to see in a western country. For that reason, when Western people see women covered up that way, they probably think they must be Muslim. In fact, I remember a little while ago when I went to the local Ethiopian restaurant in my area, owned and operated and mostly populated at that time by Ethiopians themselves (most of whom are Orthodox, at least in the diaspora), and saw several tables of women dressed in the manner of the Ethiopian women in the Jerusalem picture I posted earlier, with their heads and shoulders covered in their long white garments. It is common among the older, less Westernized generation of women to find them dressed this way in their everyday lives, outside of church. It's definitely a cultural aspect of Ethiopian life. But the non-Ethiopians in the restaurant, who presumably don't know this, were whispering among themselves nervously about "the large group of Muslims" at the tables nearby. This in a restaurant covered with Ethiopian crosses, huge pictures of the famous rock-hewn churches of Lalibela, and proudly serving "St. George" brand beer! Some Muslims they would've made. It was quite funny. I told my Ethiopian friends at church about it, and they laughed quite a lot.

So this varies a lot. For me as a Coptic Orthodox Christian, I don't bat an eye, whether it's an Orthodox woman or a Muslim woman wearing the headcovering (I did do a double take upon seeing a woman in town in a full niqab about two years ago but...uh...I'm not in rural Iran or Afghanistan, so of course that's unusual, even among my city's healthy Muslim population). It does not appear to be very common for Coptic women in the West to cover their heads outside of church (centuries of being forced to by a foreign law code in their own country has made some things distasteful to many Copts in the diaspora, not to mention the Western association of "headcovering = Muslim", which Coptic people obviously don't want to be mistaken for); though I have known some older women who do, they are a definite minority. Heck, my own grandmother (who was Mexican and Roman Catholic, not Egyptian) grew up in a time in the 1930s when such headcovering was common for women of all classes. From what I remember of my last time in Mexico (20+ years ago), it was still common in the rural area in which I stayed. It's probably still common in much of the world, just not in Western Europe or the Anglophone parts of the Americas.

 

[Locutus]

For example that she covers herself entirely, so no other men could see her form and hair or even face except the husband and for example her father (depending on whether she wears niqab or hijab). She could say that she does this as a respect to her husband.

The headcovering can also be a sign of submission to god and her husband, also showing the order of headship.
In the bible it talks about how covering the woman's head gives glory to her husband and so on in
1 Corinthians 11:3–16

This is one site that promotes the headcovering.
http://www.headcoveringmovement.com/

This is just my thought about this.

and what does the husband wear to honour and respect his wife? how does he show his submission to her headship? how does god recommend he dress in order to give glory to his wife?

 

[dzheremi]

St. Paul teaches in his epistle to the Ephesians that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the Church, giving Himself up for her (5:25). St. John Chrysostom preached that the Christian husband and wife are to one another as the eye is to the hand: when the hand is hurt, the eye should be crying, and when the eye cries, the hand should wipe away the tears. So the element of external submission may not be signified by clothing, but a husband is to show his deference to her and love for her in other ways.