Christian marrying a muslim

[Edmond Smith]

Not you, the site rules prevent non-Christians from engaging in fully debating.

Not really, they just want to make sure that its done in a rational and decent way. You can state your mind, you just have to keep it clean.
When people start attacking each other, calling names and well, just plain acting childishly...it makes it hard for a reasonable, rational discussion about the subject at hand. So you have to have some decorum and rules.
It's like the freedom of speech, you can say anything you like at any time, you just have to be careful how you say some things and the tone in how you say it.
For example, this is what they used to tell new recruits in the military while at a airport, They tell you. If you see a friend across the aisle at the airport and His name happens to be Jack, Don't ever, even today, Don't ever yell out "Hi Jack" in greeting. Or if you see a friend or someone you know who's name is Bob, and your point him out....never say "Hey it's Bob"
Because it can sound so much like "Bomb" in a crowd.
I know those are silly, but it's true.
So, there are rules for a reason. There not meant to stifle, but meant to allow you to discuss things in a reasonable and rational way.

 

[Edmond Smith]

Yeah, it does. Every killing carried out by a Muslim you want to blame on Islam, but you don't blame their religion when killings are carried out by Christians. And guess what? There is more of the latter.

First i didn't say every killing by a Muslim, I specifically called out exactly were done by terrorist acts and they all were due to their Islamic beliefs. They live and breath the Qu'ran.

Please, Show evidence of Christians doing the same? How many airplanes have Christians hijacked? How many restaurants and concerts have Christians ran into with weapons and slaughtered hundreds?
You say there are more Christians killing people for their belief. Please show evidence of this.

 

[Edmond Smith]

Yep, just like the post of yours I quoted. Red herring.

No it wasn't. We were discussing terrorism, terrorist did those things, so the subject didn't change.

Here's the definition of red herring, in case you got it mixed up with something else.

A red herring fallacy is where irrelevant information is presented usually with the purpose of trying to move the discussion away from the original topic.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

First i didn't say every killing by a Muslim, I specifically called out exactly were done by terrorist acts and they all were due to their Islamic beliefs. They live and breath the Qu'ran.

Please, Show evidence of Christians doing the same? How many airplanes have Christians hijacked? How many restaurants and concerts have Christians ran into with weapons and slaughtered hundreds?
You say there are more Christians killing people for their belief. Please show evidence of this.

She and the rest of these people spouting off this nonsense automatically assume white people in America who kill others are Christians. Maybe, maybe not. One thing is for certain: they aren't killing in the name of Christ as Muslims kill in the name of Allah. The thing that sets Muslims apart is, they all kill for a common cause, others do not.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

She and the rest of these people spouting off this nonsense automatically assume white people in America who kill others are Christians. Maybe, maybe not. One thing is for certain: they aren't killing in the name of Christ as Muslims kill in the name of Allah. The thing that sets Muslims apart is, they all kill for a common cause, others do not.

Does that really matter to the dead person?

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Does that really matter to the dead person?

It really matters when we are discussing the Islamic problem and when we are automatically assuming someone who is a murderer is a Christian despite there being no evidence of such and despite the murder not being in the name of their religion.

 

[Chesterton]

They tell you. If you see a friend across the aisle at the airport and His name happens to be Jack, Don't ever, even today, Don't ever yell out "Hi Jack" in greeting. Or if you see a friend or someone you know who's name is Bob, and your point him out....never say "Hey it's Bob"
Because it can sound so much like "Bomb" in a crowd.

Never yell out "Hi Gene". People may think you're telling them they smell bad.

 

[Edmond Smith]

Which is why it makes no sense that the Romans would have released him.

It does makes sense if you study your history a bit more. Remember, Pilate was having troubles at that time with the Jews. Pilate was brought to Jerusalem, for just that reason, to quell any kind of revolt that may or could occur within the Jewish population. Because there were more Jews in the area than Romans.
Pilate was trying to keep the peace, so He let Barabbas go.

I'm aware of what Luke's Gospel says, but do you have Roman or Jewish account of this?

Yes, Luke was Jewish, So was Matthew, Mark and John. They all describe that day. Paul speaks about it and he was Roman.

"Those" were the Jews who did not kill Jesus.

Qur’an 4:157—They said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”—but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.

The they here are the Jews.

How does that prove the Qur'an wrong? Do you think God doesn't know?

Of course God knows. It depends on who you believe is God. God of Jacob, Isaac and Abraham. or Allah god of mohammed.
The first is the real God. Allah isn't.

Then they haven't read their Qur'ans. Jesus is called the Messiah there at least nine times. In fact, Qur'an 4:157 called him that. Messiah simply got translated as Christ there, but the word is Masih.

I stand corrected, thank you. They agree that he is the Messiah, but not the Son of God. Which makes a huge difference.

The Quran agrees with the Christians who identify Jesus to be the Messiah, but considers their insistence that the Messiah is the son of God to be blasphemy:

"Indeed, they are unbelievers who say, ‘God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.’" (Quran 5:72)

The truth, according to the Quran, is that:

"The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger; messengers before him had indeed passed away." (Quran 5:75)

Furthermore, the Quran states that the Messiah called to the worship of "the true God" like all the prophets before him:

"But the Messiah said, ‘O Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord.’" (Quran 5:72)

The Quran refers to Jesus as the Messiah (al-Maseeh) at least nine times.[9] One of the explanations given by Muslim lexicographers is that Jesus was the Messiah because he anointed the eyes of the blind to cure them (Quran 3:43; Mark 6:13; James 5:14), or because he used to lay hands on the sick.

What they do try to have their cake and eat the icing as well. They agree he is called the Messiah, but take away his divinity by saying He isn't the Son of God. Which he is.



Then you and Muslims agree.

Where does the Bible say that?

It's called foreshadowing. It's a very legitimate way to study the Old testament. We should read the Old Testament with an eye to their meaning in our present day lives and looking at types and shadows of Jesus Christ and prophetic events to come are most often where they direct us.
Moses said it himself.
If you continue the chapter out, you see that the Lord himself says the same thing, and also gives a description of a prophet, by what the prophet says and who really is speaking. The consequences if someone says they are the prophet and things not being shown to prove it.

Deuteronomy 18:15The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
(emphasis added).

There's tons more...here you go.
http://www.learnthebible.org/like-unto-me-moses-as-a-type-of-christ.html

I would agree. But there is a reason they expected that. Messiah was what they called their kings.

Nah, they called their kings, King. David was never called Messiah. Your right though about the leadership title.
Messiah does mean leader, but a zealous leader. As you and I agree, they expected a leader that would bring about social and political change for the Jews. As they expect now.

They may very well, but Jews won't accept them as such.

You can't speak for all Jews. Neither can I. But if there is a reason...it's Christ.

What happened in Chattanooga had as much to with Islam as some of these school shootings have to do with Christianity Abdulazeez was a drug-addicted alcoholic who went off the deep-end..

FBI agents have found evidence that Chattanooga shooter Mohammod Abdulazeez was following a radical American member of al Qaeda online in 2013, as well as pages of writing that showed the young man was suicidal and looking for a way to absolve what he considered were his sins, according to a representative of Abdulazeez's family.

Here are two quotes from His blog, just before the shooting on July 15th:
Abdulazeez made wrote two blog posts on a recently created website just days before the attack. Both posts were published on July 13, 2015.

In the first posted, title “A Prison Called Dunya,” he wrote:

I would imagine that any sane person would devote their time to mastering the information on the study guide and stay patient with their studies, only giving time for the other things around to keep themselves focused on passing the exam. They would do this because they know and have been told that they will be rewarded with pleasures that they have never seen.

He also said in that post that life is “nothing more than a test of our faith and patience,” adding:

It was designed to separate the inhabitants of Paradise from the inhabitants of Hellfire, and to rank amongst them the best of the best and worst of the worst. Don’t let the society we live in deviate you from the task at hand. Take your study guide, the Quran and Sunnah, with strength and faith, and be firm as you live your short life in this prison called Dunya. Allah (SWT) says live for this life and the hereafter according to their length. Rasulullah says the life on this world compared to the hereafter is like a drop compared to an ocean.

Brothers and sisters don’t be fooled by your desires, this life is short and bitter and the opportunity to submit to allah may pass you by. Take his word as your light and code and do not let other prisoners, whether they are so called “Scholars” or even your family members, divert you from the truth. If you make the intention to follow allahs way 100 % and put your desires to the side, allah will guide you to what is right.

The second post was called “Understanding Islam: The Story of the Three Blind Men.” He wrote about the Prophet’s Sahaba, or companions:

We often talk about the Sahaba (RA) and their Ibada. We talk about their worshiping at night, making thikr, reading quran, fasting, sala. But did you ever notice that in one certain period towards the end of the lives of the Sahaba (RA), almost every one of the Sahaba (RA) was a political leader or an army general? Every one of them fought Jihad for the sake of Allah.

So this picture that you have in your mind that the Sahaba (RA) were people being like priests living in monasteries is not true. All of them towards the end of the lives were either a mayor of a town, governor of a state, or leader of an army at the frontlines. The Sahaba (RA) were very involved in establishing Islam in the world. Their mission was to establish Islam and live it. …

We ask Allah to make us follow their path. To give us a complete understanding of the message of Islam, and the strength the live by this knowledge, and to know what role we need to play to establish Islam in the world.

So, you can't separate the two.
The Islamic faith, is not a peaceful faith.

As for al-Qaeda, even they weren't killing people because they were Christian, much less because they wanted to collect jizya. It was a political act aimed at getting the US out of the Middle East.

That may be true, but so is the fact that they kill Christians.

So? Both sides in the Rwanda massacre were Christians. They study and pray with the Bible. They have priests. Deny all you want. We all live on the very edge of barbarism. It is not specific to any religion.

If a man says he is a Christian and doesn't live or act like one. Then he isn't' a Christian. If someone claimed to be Baha'i as you claim you are, And then acts contrary to what you believe, would you still consider him to be of the same belief.
As I'm sure your aware, that not everyone who's says their Christian, is one.

Also, according to this article, no Christians are mentioned

http://www.borgenmagazine.com/10-facts-rwandan-genocide/

Nor this one:

http://www.history.com/topics/rwandan-genocide

This paper does though:
http://faculty.vassar.edu/tilongma/Church&Genocide.html

I'll admit that those who say they are Christian did have something to do with the deaths. But it wasn't because of the religion of Christianity it was done, it was for political gain. In which no way excuses it.

But as more and more articles I've read on Rwanda, it is most definitely a political move, not religious.
with Terroist, it's both. Mainly lead by the Islamic beliefs, then win over the politics.

You were claiming I was ignorant. It is obviously not me who is ignorant.

No, not claiming ignorance here. Just stating a fact. All the degrees you get and books smarts you have.
That's great. But if you view the world in a relativistic and politically correct way. You feet are firmly placed in the air.
Common sense, has to come to play.

And no expertise in Islam that you can claim to know what you are talking about.

Not having a PhD, does not denote, no expertise in anything. It don't take a PhD to know that the terrorist acts done by the Jihadist out there is religious based.

Which has what to do with with the price of tea in China? We are talking about facts, not truth in some absolute sense.

Has nothing to do with the price. But it's true there is tea in China. Just as it's true that the terrorist that we are discussing are Islamic and do live and breath the Qu'ran and Mohammed. These just aren't the facts, they are the truth. absolutely.

And the people of Rwanda were Christian terrorists, right? They believe in Christianity and in Jesus.
Christianity has been tied to more acts of genocide than any religion on the face of the earth. And that is the absolute historical truth.

Those who claim to be Christians, yes I agree. There have been many killings in the name of Christ. It doesn't make them Christians who do it though. it's not done to get favor from God. Because God doesn't favor it. He hate sin and will have no part of it. And if those who did these things did not repent of their sins and put their trust in Christ, and they died since then, the went to Hell.

Islamic terrorist, believe they are going to be rewarded for their acts. There are over 109 surahs in the Qu'ran that calls for violence.
The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God. Most contemporary Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Their apologists cater to these preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.
Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy, along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran, have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

Except Islam explicitly prohibits the targeting of non-combatants.

yeah, it does, but they kill them anyway.

Now your ignorance is really showing. Ummah means community. It refers to a community of faith, not a person, caliph or otherwise. And a Caliph is not an Imam.

Ignorance points to having no knowledge of a subject. I do have knowledge of this subject, just made a mistake. Ummah in the religious tenant of the Qu'ran is the people, yes the community to where Allah us suppose to send this great leader they are looking for., the Caliph, your right he's not the Imam, he's like a prophet, He will be the leader of this Ummah.

You'ew not making any sense. Abu Bakr as-Siddiq is not the same person as Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

your right, he was the first Caliph The father of Aisha, Mohammed's child wife..that's whole different subject there.

Wrong. No one in al-Qaeda has ever claimed to be the caliph.

your right, never said that. Said the the Al-Qaeda are working towards their Caliphate, haven't gotten there yet.

And the KKK, the Lord's Resistance Army, Hutaree, and other terrorist groups are still Christian. What of it?

These guys are wanna be Christians. Again, you cannot break God's commandments continually and be a Christian.
You can't be of the world and Be Gods, he won't know you.If you sin and continue to sin, You are not Christian.
The term Christian has been over used and been used by many who say they are, but don't live nor worship the Way God intended for them to do. The don't obey God, they don't believe that God is righteous, just and merciful. Because if they did they would show that same , love, mercy and justice. But they don't.

Islamic terrorist they live and breath their belief. They do their prayers, they read the Qu'ran, they quote it word for word.
They would kill anyone who said otherwise. So this mamby pansy way of looking at them is wrong and dangerous.

But I'm betting you'll do all kinds of gymnastics to avoid this truth. Anyone want to lay odds for the No True Scotsman argument coming next?

You'd Win. Did Peter, Paul, Mark, Luke, John...these are the original "Christians" Did they do as these so called Christians did? Can you see the bigotry, violence, twisting of the scripture, the out right lies these so called Christians did, In their lives that has been written down by others in God's Word? No...you can't. And you can't see that in any other True, Born Again Child of God. How many people has Rev. Billy Graham, Rev Martin Luther, Rev Martin Luther King, Charles Spurgeon, Whittfield, Piper, and many other Pastors who are Born Again Believers "Christians" How many have they killed, or burned a cross, or did what these so called Christians did.

So yeah, not all who claim Christ, live like Christ and there fore are Christian

You are avoiding the truth. You and many others are blinded by this relativistic and politically correct garbage. That you won't face the facts that are right before your eyes. But the bible says that this would happen, that God would allow this to happen, that many would be fooled, even the elect.

 

[Edmond Smith]

Does that really matter to the dead person?

No it doesn't. Their dead...obvious statement.

But it does matter to us who are still alive.
If people don't see the truth of the matter. and they listen to all the false rhetoric. The lies and misinformation given on these acts of cowardice by Islamic terrorist, then get repeated enough that people begin to believe them.
This aids the Islamic terrorist, it doesn't wipe them away. Then they can go about doing as they please because those who are suppose to do something about them won't even admit that they exist...yeah..Obama. They pander to them and give them concessions and loads of money...Iran deal...because of this insane political correct and relativistic worldview, that these guys are just misunderstood and they'll go away.
Well, there not misunderstood, they know exactly what they are doing. And those of you who pamper them and say they don't exist. Your in for a very rude and sad awakening. Paris thought they had it down. They thought the same thing, that terrorism was just a fluke. That it wasn't Islamic believers that they wouldn't dare come to Paris. They unfortunately know they were wrong. Now.
How many Americans Christian and non-Christians alike are going to have to die. For people to wake up.
These people, are Islamic. Their belief system is not peaceful. They intend and fight to find a way to destroy Us every chance they get. And it's going to get worse. Count on it.

 

[danny ski]

Interfaith relationship can be tricky. I went out on a couple of dates with a Palestinian girl, when I was much younger. I knew she liked me a lot, but as soon as her parents found out, I never seen her again, alone. And that's in North America.

 

[smaneck]

Pilate was trying to keep the peace, so He let Barabbas go.

Releasing a terrorist would not keep the peace.

Yes, Luke was Jewish,

Uh, no. Luke was a gentile.

So was Matthew, Mark and John. They all describe that day. Paul speaks about it and he was Roman.

Paul doesn't mention Barabbas and although he had Roman citizenship, he was a Jew.

Of course God knows. It depends on who you believe is God. God of Jacob, Isaac and Abraham. or Allah god of mohammed.

Allah is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and Ismael I might add.

The first is the real God. Allah isn't.

Allah is a direct cognate to the Hebrew El or Eloh. It was the name Jesus used when on the cross he said "O my God, O my God why have you forsaken me?"

The Quran agrees with the Christians who identify Jesus to be the Messiah, but considers their insistence that the Messiah is the son of God to be blasphemy:

And that is what I've been saying all along. Muslims don't believe that God begats.

Furthermore, the Quran states that the Messiah called to the worship of "the true God" like all the prophets before him:

"But the Messiah said, ‘O Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord.’" (Quran 5:72)

Yep, as I said, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Ismael and Jacob.

The Quran refers to Jesus as the Messiah (al-Maseeh) at least nine times.[9] One of the explanations given by Muslim lexicographers is that Jesus was the Messiah because he anointed the eyes of the blind to cure them (Quran 3:43; Mark 6:13; James 5:14), or because he used to lay hands on the sick.

Yeah, those commentators don't know what they are talking about.

They agree he is called the Messiah, but take away his divinity by saying He isn't the Son of God.

The Messiah had nothing to do with being the Son of God. Just ask any Jew.

It's called foreshadowing. It's a very legitimate way to study the Old testament. We should read the Old Testament with an eye to their meaning in our present day lives and looking at types and shadows of Jesus Christ and prophetic events to come are most often where they direct us.

Yeah, that's called eisegesis. I do exegesis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis

Nah, they called their kings, King. David was never called Messiah.

Calling all Jews? Will one of you straighten this guy out? King David was most certainly called Messiah. He became Messiah the moment Samuel anointed him with oil. Even King Cyrus was called Messiah in Isaiah 45.

Messiah does mean leader, but a zealous leader.

No, it means the Anointed One.

FBI agents have found evidence that Chattanooga shooter Mohammod Abdulazeez was following a radical American member of al Qaeda online in 2013

Visiting website proves nothing.

, as well as pages of writing that showed the young man was suicidal and looking for a way to absolve what he considered were his sins, according to a representative of Abdulazeez's family.

Yeah, he was suffering from bi-polar depression and his insurance company had denied him treatment.

Here are two quotes from His blog, just before the shooting on July 15th:

Abdulazeez made wrote two blog posts on a recently created website just days before the attack. Both posts were published on July 13, 2015.

<snip>
So, you can't separate the two.
The Islamic faith, is not a peaceful faith.

So all the biblical rantings made by people before they go out and kill someone prove that Christianity is a violent religion, right?

That may be true, but so is the fact that they kill Christians.

These terrorists kill a lot more Muslims.

If a man says he is a Christian and doesn't live or act like one. Then he isn't' a Christian. If someone claimed to be Baha'i as you claim you are, And then acts contrary to what you believe, would you still consider him to be of the same belief.
As I'm sure your aware, that not everyone who's says their Christian, is one.

There it is you guys, the "No True Scotsman" argument. Pay up! Oh yeah, Baha'is aren't supposed to gamble. Shoot, I'd be rich.

Also, according to this article, no Christians are mentioned

http://www.borgenmagazine.com/10-facts-rwandan-genocide/

Funny how the religion of those who commit atrocities is only brought up with the perpetrators are Muslims.
Both Tutsis and Hutus are Catholics.

"In the colonial era, under German and then Belgian rule, Roman Catholic missionaries, inspired by the overtly racist theories of 19th century Europe, concocted a destructive ideology of ethnic cleavage and racial ranking that attributed superior qualities to the country's Tutsi minority, since the missionaries ran the colonial-era schools, these pernicious values were systematically transmitted to several generations of Rwandans…"
http://reliefweb.int/report/rwanda/rwanda-preventable-genocide

I'll admit that those who say they are Christian did have something to do with the deaths. But it wasn't because of the religion of Christianity it was done, it was for political gain.

Guess? What most of these jihadists do is for political gain.

Mainly lead by the Islamic beliefs, then win over the politics.

Actually no. The leadership of the ISIS military were Baathists originally.

No, not claiming ignorance here.

You accused me of ignorance of this subject, that's when I pointed out I have a PhD in it.

That's great. But if you view the world in a relativistic and politically correct way. You feet are firmly placed in the air.
Common sense, has to come to play.

You called me ignorant. Now you are trying to pretend something else.

Just as it's true that the terrorist that we are discussing are Islamic

Yeah, but that is just because those happen to be ones were are discussing. As I have pointed out there are plenty of Christian terrorists out there as well. In the Congo they even have Christian cannibals who eat Muslims.

Those who claim to be Christians, yes I agree. There have been many killings in the name of Christ. It doesn't make them Christians

Here comes the No True Scotsman argument again. If I had a nickle for all of those . . .

who do it though. it's not done to get favor from God.

Oh, quite often it has been done for that purpose. When Charlemagne slaughtered all the Saxons who refused to convert to Christianity he most definitely thought it would win God's favor. So did the Crusaders.

There are over 109 surahs in the Qu'ran that calls for violence.

And a lot more in the Bible:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God. Most contemporary Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Their apologists cater to these preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.
Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy, along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran, have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

If you were in my class I would flunk you for plagiarism. That passage word-for-word is from a Ilsamophobic hate blog.

yeah, it does, but they kill them anyway.

Then shouldn't you be applying the No True Scotsman argument to them? Oh yeah, it only applies to when Christians do this.

Ignorance points to having no knowledge of a subject. I do have knowledge of this subject

What you have knowledge is all taken from hate blogs like the one you just plagiarized.

,

just made a mistake. Ummah in the religious tenant of the Qu'ran is the people, yes the community to where Allah us suppose to send this great leader they are looking

Yeah, I bet you just found that out. Isn't google wonderful?

for., the Caliph, your right he's not the Imam, he's like a prophet

Whose like a prophet the Caliph or the Imam? Because a caliph is most certainly not like a prophet.

your right, never said that. Said the the Al-Qaeda are working towards their Caliphate, haven't gotten there yet.

No, you said they had a Caliphate.

These guys are wanna be Christians. Again, you cannot break God's commandments continually and be a Christian.

And yet when it was made clear these jihadists were violating the shariah by targeting non-combatants you still insisted they were Muslims. It seems the No True Scotsman argument only applies to Christians.

You'd Win.

Yep. Can see that fallacious argument a mile away. It might work if you were willing to give Muslims the same benefit of a doubt, but you're not. You want to apply a double-standard here.

And you can't see that in any other True, Born Again Child of God. How many people has Rev. Billy Graham, Rev Martin Luther, Rev Martin Luther King, Charles Spurgeon, Whittfield, Piper, and many other Pastors who are Born Again Believers "Christians" How many have they killed, or burned a cross, or did what these so called Christians did.

Do you really think I can't come up with a list of prominent Muslims clerics who have never committed acts of violence? But interesting you should include Martin Luther in that bunch. Have you ever read Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants? How about "The Jews & Their Lies"?

In regards to the Jews he wrote:

First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly and I myself was unaware of it will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.

Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted)

Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17 [:10 ff.]) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16 {:18], "You are Peter," etc, inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach.

Fifth, I advise that safeconduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. (...remainder omitted).

Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause.

Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strongJews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen 3[:19]}. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.

You are avoiding the truth.

No, you are the one avoiding the truth. Nothing Muslims have done against religious minorities holds a candle to the way Jews were treated for centuries under Christendom.

 

[jen76]

First i didn't say every killing by a Muslim, I specifically called out exactly were done by terrorist acts and they all were due to their Islamic beliefs. They live and breath the Qu'ran.

Please, Show evidence of Christians doing the same? How many airplanes have Christians hijacked? How many restaurants and concerts have Christians ran into with weapons and slaughtered hundreds?
You say there are more Christians killing people for their belief. Please show evidence of this.

Sorry for coming between two of you but.. " Show evidence of Christians doing the same?"
Ku Klux Klan came to my mind also.
They have been violent and trying to justify it with christian fath.
And..we could also say that muslims who are terrorists and kill people are not true muslims or that they read the quran wrong as we can say same from KKK members or something alike, that they aren't truly christians who read the bible right.

 

[smaneck]

These people, are Islamic.

People who follow Islam are called Muslims, not Islamic.

At least try and get the name right.

 

[MehGuy]

What do you think of a christian woman marrying a muslim man?
What about, if they have children and comes the religion issue about children's religion?
Should the christian allow her children to become muslims since birth or not?
And if she allows, could we think that since all is god's will, they would become christians later in their lives if he (god) wills it?
(the view of mine is a christian one)
Tell me also your opinions about this whole subject.

Depends. If say the Christian or the Muslim has a history of extremist thinking regarding their religion I would be wary. If they're both rational and reasonable people I see no problem with it.

 

[Edmond Smith]

Releasing a terrorist would not keep the peace.

At that moment in time it did. If he hadn't the Jews would have rioted. Release Barabbas, no riot, release Christ, riot...not much of a choice there.

Uh, no. Luke was a gentile.

Yep, he was. Which is even better.

Paul doesn't mention Barabbas and although he had Roman citizenship, he was a Jew.

He didn't have write about Barabbas. He already agreed with the story and believed it to be true from the beginning. Plus, I'm sure he was there, when it happened.

Allah is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and Ismael I might add.

in Arabic, yes. but in worshipped by the Islamic...No.

Allah is a direct cognate to the Hebrew El or Eloh. It was the name Jesus used when on the cross he said "O my God, O my God why have you forsaken me?"

He said, "Eli Eli lama sabachthani"



And that is what I've been saying all along. Muslims don't believe that God begats.



Yep, as I said, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Ismael and Jacob.

Yeah, those commentators don't know what they are talking about.

Saying that, just makes you sound like your pouting. Please show evidence that they are wrong.

The Messiah had nothing to do with being the Son of God. Just ask any Jew.

I've already said that. They didn't expect Christ. They expected a military leader. I agree with you on that.

Yeah, that's called eisegesis. I do exegesis.

then I shouldn't have had to explain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis



Calling all Jews? Will one of you straighten this guy out? King David was most certainly called Messiah. He became Messiah the moment Samuel anointed him with oil. Even King Cyrus was called Messiah in Isaiah 45.

No, it means the Anointed One.

Yes it does in Hebrew. Yes
The expectations of the Jews were thus kept alive from generation to generation, till the "fulness of the times," when Messiah came, "made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law." In him all these ancient prophecies have their fulfilment. Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, the great Deliverer who was to come. (Mat 26:54; Mar 9:12; Luk 18:31; 22:37; Jhn 5:39; Act 2; 16:31; 26:22, 23.)

Visiting website proves nothing.

LOL...hypocrite. You say this, then you do the opposite expecting others to accept your view.

Yeah, he was suffering from bi-polar depression and his insurance company had denied him treatment.

I've got friends who are bi-polar and have seen them without their meds. Yeah, they can be hard to handle at times.
But not one has the sense to drive to one place shoot it up, then drive 8 miles away, fighting the cops on the way and then killing 4 more. Sorry, your " He didn't mean to, excuse, would wash here"

So all the biblical rantings made by people before they go out and kill someone prove that Christianity is a violent religion, right?

Nope, it proves that they don't have a true grasp of what the Word of God is. They use it as an excuse to justify their actions. They are wrong. that's all. They kill because they want to. Not because God, told them to.

Now, I know your going to go into the old testament and rant on How God told the Israelites to go and annihilate whole groups of people. and you'd be correct. And that Was because God was trying to start a nation. He did not want the sinful nature of the groups of people, which God did give a chance to come to Him first and stop their Idolatry and sinful ways, He did offer them mercy. They refused. So God told the Israelites to destroy them. Different time, different form of warfare, Different reasoning.

These terrorists kill a lot more Muslims.

I agree they do. This just proves my point. Their resolve has nothing to do with politics. I has everything to do with Islamic belief. They're excuse is that if they kill another Muslim in the so called act of their god, that the other Muslim was sacrificed for the building of Islam. It makes no difference to them.

There it is you guys, the "No True Scotsman" argument. Pay up! Oh yeah, Baha'is aren't supposed to gamble. Shoot, I'd be rich.

I did say you'd win didn't I.
Because your saying the same thing. Your saying that no true Islamic believer would do what these "terrorist" or radical Islamic terrorist would do.
Your wrong. It's not that they won't do it. Its' called the opportunity to do so. Hasn't presented itself. When it does, they will act on it.

Funny how the religion of those who commit atrocities is only brought up with the perpetrators are Muslims.
Both Tutsis and Hutus are Catholics.

Because we are speaking of Islamic Terroism not Rwanda.
And yes the catholic and presbryterian churches were complicit in the actions taking place. Again, you'll get this one day.
Just because they belong to a "Christian" organization, doesn't mean they live the Godly , Christian life. It doesn't mean they are Christian. One day you'll get that very simple statement.


"In the colonial era, under German and then Belgian rule, Roman Catholic missionaries, inspired by the overtly racist theories of 19th century Europe, concocted a destructive ideology of ethnic cleavage and racial ranking that attributed superior qualities to the country's Tutsi minority, since the missionaries ran the colonial-era schools, these pernicious values were systematically transmitted to several generations of Rwandans…"
http://reliefweb.int/report/rwanda/rwanda-preventable-genocide

Guess? What most of these jihadists do is for political gain.

Politcal gain is a product of their true agenda, Spreading of the Islamic belief. If they get political gain throught that, then so be it.

Actually no. The leadership of the ISIS military were Baathists originally.

Yep, but are they now?



You accused me of ignorance of this subject, that's when I pointed out I have a PhD in it.

You called me ignorant. Now you are trying to pretend something else.

No, I said the relativism is a world view that your feet are planted firmly in the air.
relativism is an inconsistent and a false way to live.

Yeah, but that is just because those happen to be ones were are discussing. As I have pointed out there are plenty of Christian terrorists out there as well. In the Congo they even have Christian cannibals who eat Muslims.

not repeating myself again. If you don't get it now...you never will. You said you had a PhD, you say the things
like you do here and I'm suppose to believe you have one.

Here comes the No True Scotsman argument again. If I had a nickle for all of those . . .

Again, repeat from before. Your using it to.

Oh, quite often it has been done for that purpose. When Charlemagne slaughtered all the Saxons who refused to convert to Christianity he most definitely thought it would win God's favor. So did the Crusaders.

Charlemagne was wrong. And so were the Crusaders who did what they did...wrong. It's not biblical. it's contrary to God's Word.

And a lot more in the Bible:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

Yeah, knew you'd go there...way up above in these comments. Stated just that.
What was done in Old Testament, isn't being done now.
What is done in the Qu'ran, is being done now.
Big difference.

If you were in my class I would flunk you for plagiarism. That passage word-for-word is from a Ilsamophobic hate blog.

It's only plagiarism if I say, I wrote it. I didn't, and I didn't biblograph it either. do you always? Fortunately I'm not in your class.
And just because you can't defend against it, makes is islamophobic. Which isn't even a word. Doesn't make it untrue.




Then shouldn't you be applying the No True Scotsman argument to them? Oh yeah, it only applies to when Christians do this.



What you have knowledge is all taken from hate blogs like the one you just plagiarized.

,

Yeah, I bet you just found that out. Isn't google wonderful?

Yeah, I see you enjoy it also.



Whose like a prophet the Caliph or the Imam? Because a caliph is most certainly not like a prophet.



No, you said they had a Caliphate.

And yet when it was made clear these jihadists were violating the shariah by targeting non-combatants you still insisted they were Muslims. It seems the No True Scotsman argument only applies to Christians.

obviously it doesn't.
So, if they violated their own law...why no punishment for doing so?

Yep. Can see that fallacious argument a mile away. It might work if you were willing to give Muslims the same benefit of a doubt, but you're not. You want to apply a double-standard here.

Requoting this because you left off the good stuff. There is no double standard, your saying all Christians do these atrocities.
I'm saying that those who do these things and claim to be Christian, aren't Christians in the first place. Because they go against God's word to do them.
You saying that not all muslims are terrorist. I agree, their not. But because of their beliefs, they can potentially become one, because they are told to do these things, thru their Qu'ran. They'r told to kill infidels, they are told to kill them if they don't submit to Allah, their version of a god.

You'd Win. Did Peter, Paul, Mark, Luke, John...these are the original "Christians" Did they do as these so called Christians did? Can you see the bigotry, violence, twisting of the scripture, the out right lies these so called Christians did, In their lives that has been written down by others in God's Word? No...you can't. And you can't see that in any other True, Born Again Child of God. How many people has Rev. Billy Graham, Rev Martin Luther, Rev Martin Luther King, Charles Spurgeon, Whittfield, Piper, and many other Pastors who are Born Again Believers "Christians" How many have they killed, or burned a cross, or did what these so called Christians did.

So yeah, not all who claim Christ, live like Christ and there fore are Christian

Do you really think I can't come up with a list of prominent Muslims clerics who have never committed acts of violence?

Nope
But interesting you should include Martin Luther in that bunch. Have you ever read Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants? How about "The Jews & Their Lies"?

In regards to the Jews he wrote:

First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly and I myself was unaware of it will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.

Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted)

Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17 [:10 ff.]) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16 {:18], "You are Peter," etc, inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach.

Fifth, I advise that safeconduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. (...remainder omitted).

Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause.

Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strongJews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen 3[:19]}. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.

No, have not read the Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants?.
But did check it out, some. Luther was against the peasants, because they were trying to use the Bible to justify their actions and did a lot to put an end to it. He also thought that he was responsible for the rebellion, so di more than He could to try and end it.
You can't justify your sinful acts by claiming the bible "told you so". doesn't work that way.
On "The Jews & Their Lies"?
But if one looks a bit deeper into the book, one will also see that it presents some theological arguments against the Jewish religion (i.e. the Jew’s belief in the circumcision, their classification of themselves as the “Chosen People,” and the Jews’ denial of Christ as the Messiah). It is therefore both an examination, and a condemnation, of the Jewish religion and people.
You forgot the ending of the diatribe.

My essay, I hope, will furnish a Christian (who in any case has no desire to become a Jew) with enough material not only to defend himself against the blind, venomous Jews, but also to become the foe of the Jews' malice, lying, and cursing, and to understand not only that their belief is false but that they are surely possessed by all devils. May Christ, our dear Lord, convert them mercifully and preserve us steadfastly and immovably in the knowledge of him, which is eternal life. Amen.

He was venting, was it the right thing to do, probably not. Was He wrong on the main reason why he wrote it, no.
but in the end, he still wanted to see them converted to Christ, mercifully. Not by force.

No, you are the one avoiding the truth. Nothing Muslims have done against religious minorities holds a candle to the way Jews were treated for centuries under Christendom.

The rest is relativistic nonsense. When your feet hit reality.

We weren't discussing the Jews. But since you bring it up. Your right. Under Christendom, many Jews have been killed...but not by Christians. By those who claim Christianity. If you are Born Again, truly living for the Lord, you may want to grab sombody and make them do the right thing, but that is not the way God tells us how to go about winning the lost. You'll not find, not one command from Christ to go out and subdue anyone and force them to worship Him. Christianity didn't start in the Old testament, it started after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So your old testament arguments are just that...Old, and tiring. Until you've been Born Again, you'll never understand that. Until you place your trust fully into Christ. You will never understand that.
But your blinded by your relativistic worldview. You want to believe that the Islam is a peaceful religion. When the chaos and damage they proudly proclaim they do is right in front of you.
This isn't a contest to see who's killed more than the other. This isn't about what happened 100's of years or 80 years ago.
This is about now. Today. How many people are suffering under the rule of Islam.
You want to be blind. Go ahead. Lord willing your right. that the Islamic movement stops and they decide they don't want to continue killing. I pray that they all, understand that Christ died for their sins and for them to repent and turn their lives over to him.
Allah the Islamism worships is not Jehovah God. Allah is a little statue of a moon god. It's a false god, that requires people to work out their salvation. God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Tells us that there is nothing, absolutely nothing we can do...to get us saved. Except to Repent and place our Trust in Him who died for us.

 

[Edmond Smith]

People who follow Islam are called Muslims, not Islamic.

At least try and get the name right.

They are both

 

[smaneck]

They are both

Then you must be a Christnic.

 

[smaneck]

At that moment in time it did. If he hadn't the Jews would have rioted.

Speculation.

He didn't have write about Barabbas. He already agreed with the story and believed it to be true from the beginning.

You don't know that. With the possible exception of Mark, the Gospels weren't even written at the time Paul wrote his epistles.

Plus, I'm sure he was there, when it happened.

You are sure of a lot of things you have absolutely no evidence for.

in Arabic, yes. but in worshipped by the Islamic...No.

No such thing as an Islamic. Islamic is an adjective not a noun.

He said, "Eli Eli lama sabachthani"

Eli meaning "my God." The El is God from which the word Allah is derived. The "i" at the end denotes possession.

Saying that, just makes you sound like your pouting. Please show evidence that they are wrong.

You yourself recognized they were just making that up. You can't prove non-events. If that was what the Qur'an meant, there ought to be evidence for it in the Qur'an itself.

then I shouldn't have had to explain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis

Did you actually read that article?

"While exegesis is an attempt to determine the historical context within which a particular verse exists – the so-called "Sitz im Leben" or life setting – eisegetes often neglect this aspect of Biblical study.
In the field of Biblical exegesis, scholars take great care to avoid eisegesis. In this field, eisegesis is regarded as "poor exegesis."
In the field of biblical proof texts Christian theologians and missionaries practice eisegesis using isolated, out-of-context quotations from the Christian bible to establish a proposition or to read Christ into the Hebrew Bible."

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Speculation.



You don't know that. With the possible exception of Mark, the Gospels weren't even written at the time Paul wrote his epistles.



You are sure of a lot of things you have absolutely no evidence for.



No such thing as an Islamic. Islamic is an adjective not a noun.



Eli meaning "my God." The El is God from which the word Allah is derived. The "i" at the end denotes possession.



You yourself recognized they were just making that up. You can't prove non-events. If that was what the Qur'an meant, there ought to be evidence for it in the Qur'an itself.



Did you actually read that article?

"While exegesis is an attempt to determine the historical context within which a particular verse exists – the so-called "Sitz im Leben" or life setting – eisegetes often neglect this aspect of Biblical study.
In the field of Biblical exegesis, scholars take great care to avoid eisegesis. In this field, eisegesis is regarded as "poor exegesis."
In the field of biblical proof texts Christian theologians and missionaries practice eisegesis using isolated, out-of-context quotations from the Christian bible to establish a proposition or to read Christ into the Hebrew Bible."

At least they aren’t saying Mohammedans

 

[smaneck]

At least they aren’t saying Mohammedans

Yes, it could be worse.