Children that God commanded to die, i have something to say

[ChristianFriend2023]

Hi. I am not against Christianity i still believe it as well as i can, but i am in a process and it takes time for me and i need every doubt and questions that arise to be satisfying so that i can be more of a believer when i get satisfying answers so that my thoughts and questions gets satisfied so i can move on and that strengthens my belief. Just as i just cant blindly follow Hinduism or any other religion without questioning it and also seek for the truth and not being naive, i need to question stuff that comes up with Christianity, because if i did not i would just blindly believe in Hinduism for an example if that was something i grew up with or shown by a friend. Everyone is different and it's a little bit harder for me that's why i need to ask for understanding. This is no means an attack against Christianity i am still a believer in Christ, is what i am trying to say here, and English is not my first language, so bare with me.

The children died/got killed by Gods command (in Old Testament) because God's righteous anger. And if one says those children is in heaven because its before an certain age when the child knows what it means to accept Jesus or to believe God, they go to heaven after they died. But God did not command the killings because he was happy, it was of what was done and had to be done because of it, so in that sense it makes no sense for God than to let the children get to heaven (and skip all the human trials and suffering first while growing up and then not get saved IF they did not choose the only God the Christian God.) because God did this as a consequence and hate.

That means he did not give the children any chance at all, and these are children that dont know better and should be innocent because of it. The only reason i would argue is that God knew the children would never believe in him so them dying when a child did not make any difference because they would anyway go to hell, but now they go there sooner instead of later.

But if that is so, then he might as well have killed all people over the world that had the same fate because God could foretell it that they would never in their life believe in him hence already going to hell (even if we all are destined to hell if we dont believe, im not talking about that but just in this case to explain about the children.) So i dont know if i can buy that kind of argument that i came up with myself.

In this particular case, it would mean that they did not go to heaven. So they are punished for eternity because of what the grown-ups did. But maybe not, i cant know for sure of course. But it got me thinking, and i would like someone to discuss it with me what you think.

 

[disciple Clint]

Hi. I am not against Christianity i still believe it as well as i can, but i am in a process and it takes time for me and i need every doubt and questions that arise to be satisfying so that i can be more of a believer when i get satisfying answers so that my thoughts and questions gets satisfied so i can move on and that strengthens my belief. Just as i just cant blindly follow Hinduism or any other religion without questioning it and also seek for the truth and not being naive, i need to question stuff that comes up with Christianity, because if i did not i would just blindly believe in Hinduism for an example if that was something i grew up with or shown by a friend. Everyone is different and it's a little bit harder for me that's why i need to ask for understanding. This is no means an attack against Christianity i am still a believer in Christ, is what i am trying to say here, and English is not my first language, so bare with me.

The children died/got killed by Gods command (in Old Testament) because God's righteous anger. And if one says those children is in heaven because its before an certain age when the child knows what it means to accept Jesus or to believe God, they go to heaven after they died. But God did not command the killings because he was happy, it was of what was done and had to be done because of it, so in that sense it makes no sense for God than to let the children get to heaven (and skip all the human trials and suffering first while growing up and then not get saved IF they did not choose the only God the Christian God.) because God did this as a consequence and hate.

That means he did not give the children any chance at all, and these are children that dont know better and should be innocent because of it. The only reason i would argue is that God knew the children would never believe in him so them dying when a child did not make any difference because they would anyway go to hell, but now they go there sooner instead of later.

But if that is so, then he might as well have killed all people over the world that had the same fate because God could foretell it that they would never in their life believe in him hence already going to hell (even if we all are destined to hell if we dont believe, im not talking about that but just in this case to explain about the children.) So i dont know if i can buy that kind of argument that i came up with myself.

In this particular case, it would mean that they did not go to heaven. So they are punished for eternity because of what the grown-ups did. But maybe not, i cant know for sure of course. But it got me thinking, and i would like someone to discuss it with me what you think.

I am going to assume that you are talking about the results of the great flood. The people had become so evil that God had to eliminate them and start over with people who were not raised to be evil. God was not angry, God was trying to save the human race from itself. God is love, God is not an angry God, many times in the bible human terms such as anger are attributed to God to make thing more understandable to the people reading the bible this is called anthropomorphism, giving human traits to non humans. If God had not eliminated those people the children would have grown up to be evil, you are correct on that. Since the children were not able to make a freewill election to accept God, God would not judge them and they would not go to hell. It is argued by some scholars that all of the people killed in the flood were give the opportunity to accept Jesus after Jesus made His sacrifice and before He assented to the Father, there is scripture that indicates that He went to Hades to preach to the inhabitants and set them free. Hope this helps you.

 

[ChristianFriend2023]

I am going to assume that you are talking about the results of the great flood. The people had become so evil that God had to eliminate them and start over with people who were not raised to be evil. God was not angry, God was trying to save the human race from itself. God is love, God is not an angry God, many times in the bible human terms such as anger are attributed to God to make thing more understandable to the people reading the bible this is called anthropomorphism, giving human traits to non humans. If God had not eliminated those people the children would have grown up to be evil, you are correct on that. Since the children were not able to make a freewill election to accept God, God would not judge them and they would not go to hell. It is argued by some scholars that all of the people killed in the flood were give the opportunity to accept Jesus after Jesus made His sacrifice and before He assented to the Father, there is scripture that indicates that He went to Hades to preach to the inhabitants and set them free. Hope this helps you.

I was thinking of the one where God command some people to go kill every child and woman or bashing children's skull against a rock, it sounds angry. "there is scripture that indicates that He went to Hades" this part is nice to hear.

 

[disciple Clint]

I was thinking of the one where God command some people to go kill every child and woman and so on. But otherwise this answer is also good.

Yes the reason God wanted everyone killed is because the people who were left alive would have promoted a vendetta (that is the way the world worked at that time) against the Israelites and they would teach their children to hate them which would result in future wars and deaths, more killing.

 

[ChristianFriend2023]

Yes the reason God wanted everyone killed is because the people who were left alive would have promoted a vendetta (that is the way the world worked at that time) against the Israelites and they would teach their children to hate them which would result in future wars and deaths, more killing.

Yeah that is understandable. The reason why it happened. I guess then its not just anger to kill them but to prevent. So i guess they do go to heaven. It was happening because it was to protect his chosen people so it had to be done, and thats why it does not happen today and also because of after Jesus.

 

[LoricaLady]

This is a very long answer with many controversial topics. I respect if others differ from me. But forgive me as I do not have time to debate and honestly will not return here lest I be tempted to spend a lot of time on things people are free to have their own opinions about.

Again, I respect if other people differ and trust you will permit me to have my own opinions based on what I feel I have learned in my personal Bible research. None of us knows everything.

OP I noticed that you’re asking a lot of questions about the Bible, here and elsewhere, which I’ve also asked many times. You and others may or may not see things as they seem to me, but you are posting many questions and i am giving my answers.

I have found that if I ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit that there are tons of answers online. Or sometimes he will
just give insight.

The particular question I’m going to address, though, is your concern about genocide in the Bible, particularly of children, particularly like under the command of Joshua.

The Bible talks about demon seed. In the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Demon seed cannot be saved, and they are bent on hurting the true people of the Lord. Even one another.

If a baby is Demon seed, it is still Demon seed.

There are genealogical studies showing that the groups that were being slaughtered at the command of the Lord shared the same hereditary backgrounds.

The Lord knows who they are, and he was able to guide people as to what to do about them.

It was always true that the people who experienced genocide from his command, were doing incredibly horrible things, like sacrificing their living babies in the fire to Baal.

(And by the way, when the Israelites got into such practices, they also suffered, horrible things, like famine, pestilence, war, and captivity, and so on. The Lord ain’t kidding about his commandments.)

Look at Sodom and Gomorrah. You know children had to have been killed there too.

And by the way, if you want to see, incredible, archaeological evidence for Soddom and Gomorrah, there are videos of those cities being seen covered with sulfur and ash. Ron Wyatt has possibly the best ones on the subject.

I don’t think we ever understand everything that is in the Bible. We just don’t have all the data.

We can search for the answers, and I have personally always had my faith increased in my searching.

But I know I will have questions until I die. So I operate on what I do know. Job had questions about what seemed like unfairness in the world. Particularly to himself. And the Lord never answered his questions. He just asked job where Job was when he created everything.

Again, ask your questions. But most of all ask the Lord. If you are sincere, he will lead you to the answers so many times.
I will share with you what my biggest questions were about, until I actually found the answers to my amazement.

After I became a Christian, I still did not believe Noah and the great flood. I thought it must be allegorical or something.

Then I saw a video series called In The Days of Noah by Billy
Crone. I am not a fan of Billy Crone because he promotes pre trib and I don’t see that. But he really did his homework in that series. You will see things like great underwater cities, clams on tops of mountains, sometimes as big as people, and so much more.

Georgia Purdom of answersingenes also has great videos on evidence is for the flood, though she is not as entertaining or extensive as Billy Crone.
The point is that things can seem nonsensical in the Bible, like about Noah, until you really get the facts. In this world of lies run by the father of lies, you may have to dig for the facts. But we are in an age of information where they are so often now available.

I pray you will be guided into all truth. But I know, and I say this for myself, of course too, that knowledge doesn’t get us to heaven. Only faith in the son of the creator. And obedience.

Oh, wait, I just thought of something else.

Here is a great faith builder
The Shroud of Turin.

The shroud of Turin is the most scientifically studied artifact on the planet. It has been analyzed for hundreds of thousands of hours by scientists in various disciplines who have been published in very reputable peer-reviewed scientific journals.


You may have heard that the Shroud was proven to be a medieval forgery based on some carbon 14 testing in the 1980s. But in the video called Jesus and the Shroud of Turin, you can see the very inventor of carbon 14 dating saying that the sample they took for testing was invalid due to contamination.


In addition, that sample was proven to be part of a medieval reweave that took place after a part of the shroud was burned.


As I said, it is the most scientifically studied artifact on the entire planet.


Historians agree that the details of the Shroud match exactly what the New Testament describes in terms of the crucifixion and burial, and practices of the Jews at that time.


Botanists state that pollen samples found on the Shroud are indigenous to Jerusalem and certainly not the western world. Ditto particles of marble found on the feet area of the man on the shroud which are no way found in Europe, but are native to Jerusalem.


The blood on it is real blood and hematologists state that the reason the blood is red is because it has so much bilirubin in it. Bilirubin is what pours into the blood under cases of extreme torture.


There is no paint or other medium found on the Shroud which could account for the presence of its image. Yet somehow a medieval artist was supposedly able to produce it without paint or any other known medium?


There is so much that can be said about the Shroud, and if you really want to honestly look at it I suggest the vid mentioned above, plus one by Brian Cray.


But think of this. We are being told that a medieval forger somehow painted a picture that is extremely faint, but that with the invention of modern day photography revealed that the image on the Shroud is a negative and that the reverse, positive, image shows extremely amazing details which no medieval forger would’ve even known about.


Anyone can take a picture of anything from a piece of linen, or anywhere else, and then look at the negative and see if you get the same type of results as can be seen with the positive and negative images of the Shroud of Turin.


When have we ever seen the negative of a photograph producing far, far more exquisite details than the original picture itself?


With modern technology we have found that the shroud has x-ray qualities showing dentition and bones. How is a Medieval forger going to be able to include that?


No one is worshiping the shroud. But it is mentioned in the book of John. If the Lord left it for us, and I certainly believe that he did, then while it may not be necessary at all for faith - though it has been an instrument leading to
faith for some - we all can use extra strengthening of our understanding of Scriptures such as this provides.

Oh I think of one other thing. Evolution. I used to believe in it wholeheartedly and then did my research, and when I saw through the pseudoscience farce, I literally fell off the couch laughing.

If you have any belief in evolution, I can give you some great resources on that too. Wazooloo with Ian Juby is a great place to start, maybe with his short and funny vid called SEX Crevo Rant 13.

Happy searching!

 

[Tolworth John]

he did not give the children any chance at all, and these are children that dont know better and should be innocent because of it.

I'm assuming you are questioning Gods justice in regard to the death of children in the OT.

To be blunt, there is no such thing as inocent people, whether adult or child.
God does not have to save anyone, we all deserve his rightous judgement.

In becoming a Christian you are not doing God a favour, just accepting his offer of mercy.

As to those who died in the bible or in history. They are dead, you cannot alter there fate, all you can do is, either accept that God is perfectly just or reject his justice both for them and for yourself.

 

[atpollard]

This is how EVERYONE starts out without any help from God:

Ephesians 2:1-3 [NLT]

Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil--the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God's anger, just like everyone else.

[Sweedish]
Ni var döda i era överträdelser och synder, då ni levde på den nuvarande världens vis. Ni följde härskaren över luftens rike, den andemakt som nu verkar i olydnadens människor. På det sättet levde vi allihop förut. Vi följde våra mänskliga impulser och lät kroppens begär och våra egna tankar styra oss. Av naturen var vi vredens barn, precis som alla andra.
​

That applies to you and me and

• the lady with the cats living across the street from you
• the boy that robs houses to buy drugs
• the man that works the cash-register in the grocery store
• the handsome fireman that rescues people
• the evil people living in Jericho
• those young children playing on the street of Jericho
• if the infants in the cribs grow up ... it will apply to them, too.

From this "common starting point", people move in one of two directions:

EITHER GOD does something:
Ephesians 2:4-10 [NLT]

But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God's grace that you have been saved!) For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

[Sweedish]
Men vår Gud som är rik på barmhärtighet har älskat oss så mycket att han gjorde oss levande tillsammans med Kristus, trots att vi var döda genom våra överträdelser. Det är av nåd som ni är räddade. Han har uppväckt oss med honom och gett oss en plats i himlen i Kristus Jesus, för att i kommande tidsåldrar visa sin överväldigande rika nåd i godheten mot oss i Kristus Jesus.

Ni är alltså räddade av nåd genom tron, inte av er själva, utan det är en gåva från Gud, inte på grund av gärningar, och därför kan heller ingen skryta. Vi är hans verk, skapade i Kristus Jesus till goda gärningar, som Gud från början planerade att vi skulle göra.
​

OR GOD abandons you:
Romans 1:18-32 [NLT]

But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.

So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.

[Sweedish]
Men Gud visar sin vrede från himlen mot all ondska och orättfärdighet hos dem som undertrycker sanningen i orättfärdighet. Det man kan veta om Gud kan de ju själva se, för Gud har visat det för dem. Ända sedan världens skapelse har man kunnat se hans osynliga egenskaper, hans oändliga makt och hans gudomlighet i hans verk. Därför finns det ingen ursäkt för dem.

Trots att de kände Gud ville de inte ära honom som Gud och tacka honom. Istället ägnade de sig åt egna, meningslösa resonemang, och deras oförståndiga hjärtan förmörkades. De påstod sig vara visa, men blev istället dårar. De bytte ut den odödlige Gudens härlighet mot bilder av dödliga människor, av fåglar och fyrfotadjur och kräldjur.

Gud lät dem därför följa sitt hjärtas begär och orena lidelser, så att de förnedrade sina kroppar med varandra. De bytte ut Guds sanning mot lögn. De tillbad och tjänade det skapade istället för Skaparen, han som är välsignad i evighet, amen.

Därför lät Gud dem ägna sig åt förnedrande lidelser. Deras kvinnor övergav sin naturliga sexualitet för den onaturliga. Och männen [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ade att ha naturliga sexuella förhållanden med kvinnor och började upptändas av begär till varandra, så att de utförde skamliga handlingar med andra män. På så sätt blev de själva orsaken till det rättvisa straff de fick för sin villfarelse.

Eftersom de struntade i kunskapen om Gud, lät Gud dem följa sina egna onda tankar, så att de gjorde sådant som man inte får göra. De fylldes av all slags orättfärdighet, elakhet, girighet, ondska, de var fulla av avundsjuka, mordlust, aggressioner, svek, illvilja och sladder. De skvallrar, hatar Gud, är kaxiga, stolta och skrytsamma, hittar ständigt nya sätt att göra det som är ont, de är olydiga mot sina föräldrar, tanklösa, trolösa, kärlekslösa och utan medlidande. De vet att Gud har bestämt att en dag straffa dem med döden för det de gör, men ändå fortsätter de. Och inte nog med det: de uppmuntrar andra som lever likadant.

​

The flaw in your original thinking is "nobody is good". The infants would not have grown up and chosen good, they would have chosen "wrong" ... just like everyone does. Only the touch of God MAKES people good (and that is still not OUR goodness, it is HIS goodness living inside of us and bubbling out ... like a spring of water flowing from a rock). The rock does not create the water ... men do not create the goodness.

 

[ChristianFriend2023]

Thank you for the reply but after watching some videos on the shroud of turin and believing it, i saw this one

and i am 100% it was davinci that made it. First part that was convincing was at 14:32 where she shows us the wrapping of the shroud over the face it shows when stretched straight it makes the face all wide and wrong. But the most convincing was the part when he recreated the technique and made the exact same thing as davinci used to make the shroud or turin, and it was perfectly exact the same. And its also why the face is not weird because it was never a shroud wrapping around the face it was the technique used. Because if it was wrapped you would get the distorted weird effect when straightened like she showed us in 14:32.

 

[ChristianFriend2023]

Thanks for the answers all. Im satisfied

 

[atpollard]

Thank you for the reply but after watching some videos on the shroud of turin and believing it, i saw this one

and i am 100% it was davinci that made it. First part that was convincing was at 14:32 where she shows us the wrapping of the shroud over the face it shows when stretched straight it makes the face all wide and wrong. But the most convincing was the part when he recreated the technique and made the exact same thing as davinci used to make the shroud or turin, and it was perfectly exact the same. And its also why the face is not weird because it was never a shroud wrapping around the face it was the technique used. Because if it was wrapped you would get the distorted weird effect when straightened like she showed us in 14:32.

... well that certainly came out of nowhere.

 

[LoricaLady]

Thank you for the reply but after watching some videos on the shroud of turin and believing it, i saw this one

and i am 100% it was davinci that made it. First part that was convincing was at 14:32 where she shows us the wrapping of the shroud over the face it shows when stretched straight it makes the face all wide and wrong. But the most convincing was the part when he recreated the technique and made the exact same thing as davinci used to make the shroud or turin, and it was perfectly exact the same. And its also why the face is not weird because it was never a shroud wrapping around the face it was the technique used. Because if it was wrapped you would get the distorted weird effect when straightened like she showed us in 14:32.

Go get a piece of linen. Put a faint image on it of a man. Don’t be like DaVinci who always used paint. Because scientists agree the image on the Shroud was not put there by paint or any known medium.

Now here is the best part. Even with paint or any other medium that you chose to use, take a photo of your work. Look at the negative. Is it incredibly more detailed than the actual cloth? Be sure that with computer technology you make your image, in the negative, have x ray qualities that show bones and dentition. Like the Shroud.

Where was daVinci going to get microscopic marble particles, particles from Jerusalem mines, for the feet, and pollen from Jerusalem?

I could ask many more rhetorical questions. But the major revelation is that you apparently did not watch the referenced videos which quote and interview scientists and experts from many fields, but just quoted something that does not address my questions. And I’m sure those videos never showed any linen image they created, without paint or even with paint, which when photographed produced a negative image amazingly different in details from the original.

The video by Brian Cray will answer virtually any question you may have.

 

[LoricaLady]

P.S. just a few more points about daVinci. We have a great deal of historic records telling about him, not to mention having his actual art work. No one back then even hinted about any connection between him and the Shroud. Once again, when daVinci painted, he used paint and scientists say the Shroud was not painted and that the creation of the image defies known laws of nature.

In addition the Shroud was being shown 100 years before daVinci was born.