Cessationism and Premillennialism

[Episaw]

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Ok, I missed it, so just ask it again and if I feel like, it I will answer it.

The question was "Are the gifts of the Spirit a salvation issue?"

 

[JIMINZ]

The question was "Are the gifts of the Spirit a salvation issue?"

Why does this answer below which I gave in my post #4 not answer the question as asked?

Neither one of your questions will determine your Salvation

They both fall into the category of personal belief, I personally would steer clear of any group which would consider either belief to be a Salvation issue.

Below is the OP"s post #5 to my post.
She is satisfied with my answer why are you not?

I'm glad to hear that. I've been looking into the CoC (well, online sources lol) and so far I've never heard anyone say what either of you said. They've been cessationists and amillennialists.

Just to settle the matter for you, a direct answer to your question.

"Are the gifts of the Spirit a salvation issue?"

No they are not!

 

[Episaw]

Below is the OP"s post #5 to my post.
She is satisfied with my answer why are you not?

I have this terrible problem that I like to think for myself.

 

[JIMINZ]

I have this terrible problem that I like to think for myself.

.
I love the way you ask for something, and when you get what you have asked for, you don't even acknowledge it, as though it was never given.

If that is what you call thinking for yourself, then I can clearly see now why I didn't understand anything you were talking about.....Gday.

 

[Episaw]

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I love the way you ask for something, and when you get what you have asked for, you don't even acknowledge it, as though it was never given.

If that is what you call thinking for yourself, then I can clearly see now why I didn't understand anything you were talking about.....Gday.

And good day to you.

 

[Lady Bug]

lol don't ruin my thread

 

[Lady Bug]

I was commenting on a video by a preacher from the CoC and someone replied to my comment saying that cessationism and amillennialism must be agreed upon as fundamentals of their faith and now I feel discouraged...why can't I believe in the rest of what the CoC teaches but dissent on these two? I agree with practically everything they teach otherwise

 

[Traveling teacher]

i grew up in the conservative COC
they have changed a lot since

very few believe in the gifts but some do....

i like the 5 steps as long as you focus on relationship and not a checklist....

jwe left the COC about 20 years ago for various rreasons....
went to a bible church who the pastor would not support the gifts
but said he didnt really believe in cessationism either....

when we first got their a lot of charismatics were allowed to have a private prayer
group in a separate room as long as they didnt push these views....

over time they left for whatever reason and the pastor seemed to really turn anti-gifts....
also had very little prayer for altar calls...
maybe 1 altar call every 2-3 years

during this time prayer left the church as the charismatics were the prayer warriors....

conclusion:
if you atttend a cesasstionist church
know that sooner or later they will deminish prayer and probably
quench the spirit of prayer at the altar

at least that has been my experience in these 2 groups over 30 years

 

[Episaw]

I was commenting on a video by a preacher from the CoC and someone replied to my comment saying that cessationism and amillennialism must be agreed upon as fundamentals of their faith and now I feel discouraged...why can't I believe in the rest of what the CoC teaches but dissent on these two? I agree with practically everything they teach otherwise

When someone says you must believe.....outside of the essentials, it shows how insecure they are about what they believe.

Outside of the essentials, I don't care what they believe because it is not going to make any difference to their salvation.

What everyone needs to focus on is what they do. That shows where people are at more than what they believe. I can say I love God and be a terrible person who lives to impose legalistic ideas which are mine and mine alone.

 

[Traveling teacher]

agree that cesation is not a salvation issue

but if you quench prayer in the church...you will quench your relationship with God
cant lhave a close relationship with Jesus without prayer....impossible

also remeber scripture "do not quench the Spirit"
1 thessalonians 5:19

 

[Episaw]

agree that cesation is not a salvation issue

but if you quench prayer in the church...you will quench your relationship with God
cant lhave a close relationship with Jesus without prayer....impossible

also remeber scripture "do not quench the Spirit"
1 thessalonians 5:19

From the vast experience that I have had over 60 years as a Christian, churches that are fanatical about prayer I can count on one hand.

Why is this?

It seems to be two things come into play.

The head honcho is not very excited about prayer. My wife runs the prayer ministry at her church and the head honcho never goes to the formal prayer times. They usually have four or five people who attend.

If the head honcho is not excited about it neither is the congregation.

 

[Lady Bug]

I'm not even into the tongues and prophecy stuff because I don't know who's really legit in those departments. I just find it impossible to believe that things like discernment of the spirits, faith, knowledge, and wisdom are totally out of existence, even if it happens to be among a very rare few.

 

[Lady Bug]

p.s. I am not implying there's any new revelation after the Bible

 

[Episaw]

I'm not even into the tongues and prophecy stuff because I don't know who's really legit in those departments. I just find it impossible to believe that things like discernment of the spirits, faith, knowledge, and wisdom are totally out of existence, even if it happens to be among a very rare few.

You are right to believe that they are not totally out of existence as you would find out if you read as many books as I have about what God is doing around the world supernaturally.

For example, thousands of Muslims have come to Christ through seeing him supernaturally or through a dream where they encounter him. It has happened too many times to be fake and in many cases, there is a price to pay if one leaves Islam and becomes a Christian. Certainly, a high enough one to not follow a joke or a false impression.

And it has been attested to by reputable ministries like Open Doors.

 

[Traveling teacher]

From the vast experience that I have had over 60 years as a Christian, churches that are fanatical about prayer I can count on one hand.

Why is this?

It seems to be two things come into play.

The head honcho is not very excited about prayer. My wife runs the prayer ministry at her church and the head honcho never goes to the formal prayer times. They usually have four or five people who attend.

If the head honcho is not excited about it neither is the congregation.

my experience also

we left the sesationist church about 1 year ago

and are thriving agian in an AG

it is refreshing as prayer is not quenched and altar calls every week

 

[Acts2:38]

Sorry to post so late on this thread. I usually, myself, try to answer any questions that refer to churches of Christ as there are not many here. If there are, still very few even respond or post here on this thread area.

Is it imperative that everyone, as a member of one of these churches, believe that the gifts have ceased?

Is it a salvation issue?

Really what needs to be said is, "What does scripture say?".

1 Corinthians 13:8-10

"that which is perfect" is not referring to Jesus, because Jesus is not a "That".

However, the bible IS a "that".

John was the last apostle alive when Revelation was finished in 96 AD. John also died shortly sometime after. Apostles were the ONLY people that could pass on miraculous gifts by the laying on of hands (see sample in Acts 8).

So, with this information, what does the bible say? What conclusion have you come to from this?

Is adding to scripture or taking from it and passing such belief as doctrine, a salvation issue?

I could also ask the same about premillennialism. I do not believe in pre-trib rapture (I'm more convinced it's post-trib) but premillennialism is convincing to me, but it appears as if the CoC views this as heresy. Is this a salvation issue too?

Regardless of what responses I have seen here, premill and post mill are found nowhere in scripture. The misrepresentation of Revelations makes me cringe.

Because there is much to discuss on this book, we could take it in segments if one cared too.

This being said, I'd like to say I am no peterist or anything like that. I am an idealist. I see it how it is, how the scripture says it is, and I can know the difference between figurative and literal language.

 

[Lady Bug]

It's been awhile since I've inserted my 2 cents into my thread. I've seen it bumped but I have a headache that won't go away and it's hard to actually reply in depth right now. I will say though that since I've been looking into the dispensationalism vs. covenant theology thing, and am leaning more toward covenant theology now, that the issue of premillennialism is taking more of a back seat and doesn't constitute a dealbreaker for me. As far as cessationism, I haven't finished that one.

As far as Jesus not being a "that," well I like reading the King James (please no debate on that one lol, I simply like reading it), and all people are referred to as a "that" or "which," and not "who," so that's why, at least how I see it, Jesus could still be the "that." lol...

 

[Lady Bug]

a part of me almost doesn't care about whether the gifts have ceased...I'm just concerned about whether denying the gifts could constitute blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - - Jesus called his opponents out when they attributed his casting out demons to Beelzebub - - the context referred to this as blasphemy of the HS (if you see the surrounding verses - forgot where) and I want to be careful about this - - if this sounds incoherent, well I got a headache :/

 

[Tayla]

I do not believe in pre-trib rapture (I'm more convinced it's post-trib) but premillennialism is convincing to me, but it appears as if the CoC views this as heresy.

I am ammillennial -- no rapture at all, and no 1,000 year millennium.